Best rider not in yellow at TDF

[PSC]

Not sure who said it, but I am pretty sure it was on NBCSN, that Sagan was the "best" rider at the Tour. I say I have to agree. He has not only had to help Contador, but has had really had no help from his team in trying to achieve his goal of the green jersey. Watching him race is pretty awesome, much better than watching Froome drop guys on the climb, after his team sets him up for the win.

[kramnnim]

Would love to see Sagan somehow win in Paris. And they'd better give him the "Most Combative Overall" award...

[coffeecake]

Completely agree. I've had so much fun watching him. Hopefully he hasn't burned all his matches yet.

[beeatnik]

"What I can do?" -Sagan

[ultraman6970]

Have to agree, the kid is unreal. Dunno if anybody noticed... he has a lot more muscle mass than before... good? bad???

[spartanKid]

Anyone else see him ditch the race radio and listen to what looked like an iPod shuffle with one headphone on the race down the mountain and to the finish?

[firerescuefin]

Guess the Paceline Sagan haters are taking the night off. Good.

Love me some G Thomas as well.

[weisan]

Sagan's motivation

[Wakatel_Luum]

I wasn't before but Sagan is my favorite rider currently in the peloton...he might be a bit heavy but thought it's possible he could develop into an all rounder like Jalabert did...

[weisan]

Sagan's heartache

[beeatnik]

^All Heart

[tiretrax]

It was Oleg Tinkoff, in a lucid moment.

[MattTuck]

Why qualify it? I certainly don't think Chris Froome is 'the best rider at the TDF'... maybe the best freakish stage racer... the same way a flamingo has evolved to fill a specific niche.

It seems that he has matured a bit in the last year. Seems that having some hardship and adversity has made him a bit tougher, and maybe a bit more appreciative of the chances he does get.

I know we're in TDF / Grand Tour season, but I think it would be interesting to have a 'green jersey' for the classics season as well. Doesn't have to be green, of course, but just a points system to reward consistent riders in the one day races.

Yes, I'm aware the WorldTour rankings does something similar, but points come from all races, not just the spring classics.

[FlashUNC]

If he's so great, why hasn't he won a stage?

In that sense, he's consistent with his Spring Classics season...

[pinoymamba]

If he's so great, why hasn't he won a stage?


because he's marked and has zero support...

[choke]

..

[Elefantino]

Sagan's chest thump was from Matthew McConaughey's lunch scene in "Wolf of Wall Street."

Truly.

[FlashUNC]

because he's marked and has zero support...

Other guys seem to be doing alright freelancing.

His classics season was a dud, and he's likely going to win this green jersey without having won a stage. So...kudos for winning a bunch of intermediate sprints?

[notsew]

Sagan's heartache

He said in an interview after that the chest thump was the money chant from The Wolf of Wallstreet. That is, in my opinion, hilarious.

Sagan is awesome and is a beast out there. I'm thoroughly enjoying watching him not win every stage. Here's to hoping he pulls one out.

[chengher87]

If he's so great, why hasn't he won a stage?

In that sense, he's consistent with his Spring Classics season...

because he's marked and has zero support...

Nobody wants to help him as well. He drove the first chasing group after Plaza and when the Voeckler group caught up, nobody wanted to help him up the climb. I found it rich that Riblon was yelling at Sagan to do more work when Sagan was basically forced to do all the work on that last climb.

[PSC]

What about Geraint Thomas?

[beeatnik]

He's a very nice boy. I like his style.

[gianni]

Has the mob forgotten the Baldy stage at TOC? I think he only lost 50 sec to Gessink on the stage and he won the TT and the overall. The kid is brilliant and a real bike racer! Watching Froome makes me want to breakout the roundup on the garden get those annoying mantises.

I can watch Sagan, Hannah and Horse all day long.

[enr1co]

Other guys seem to be doing alright freelancing.

His classics season was a dud, and he's likely going to win this green jersey without having won a stage. So...kudos for winning a bunch of intermediate sprints?

Wont be the first time for a green jersey winner without stage wins. He'll be in good company with some guy with last name "Kelly" ;)

Yeah, classics season was a dud but he's still learning and has a few years ahead of him. If he can keep the form going, he may be able to freelance to a good showing in Richmond this year?

[CunegoFan]

Sagan's consistency may sap his strength enough that he does not win as much as he should. Aside from the true mountain stages, he is there at the end of every stage. Even when dropped by a mishap, he will put out a huge amount of energy to make it into the final sprint.

On Twitter someone posted that Sagan had been in the top ten of every stage of every stage race he had done from March XX to June or something; I don't remember the data of the tweet, but it was a very long run.

[LouDeeter]

He said in an interview after that the chest thump was the money chant from The Wolf of Wallstreet. That is, in my opinion, hilarious.



Sagan seemed proud because on the line he pounded his chest like Matthew McConaughey in the Wolf of Wall Street and hummed. Asked why he is so aggressive, he said, because I have big balls!
Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/07/news/sagan-second-again-after-hair-raising-descent_378840#F3mFjIbImSgBof2u.99

That too.

[jlwdm]

Why qualify it? I certainly don't think Chris Froome is 'the best rider at the TDF'... maybe the best freakish stage racer... the same way a flamingo has evolved to fill a specific niche.

.

The TDF is by far the biggest race of the year and the winner is all that really matters. The polka dot jersey is won by someone who can't compete for the overall and is willing to go out on long breaks with any concern of the peloton. The green jersey is often won by the best not quite pure sprinter who can make it over the mountains or who gets in breaks every day and out sprints non-sprinters. And stages are often won by riders that the peloton could care less about and are allowed to go in breaks.

To me the best riders at the TDF are the ones competing for the yellow jersey. And I don't mean the riders competing for yellow early on who have no chance of winning.

Jeff

[numbskull]

Sagan's motivation

Looks like his sister!

[Climb01742]

'Best' can be defined various ways, but for me, no one is more fun to watch than Sagen. He animates so many stages and makes boring stages worth watching.

[FlashUNC]

I genuinely don't get the Sagan love. I watch him and see a poor man's version of Frank Vandenbroucke.

He's going to win a green Jersey by winning a bunch of intermediate sprints.

Maybe I'll care once he wins a Monument, but I find guys like Dan Martin or Kwiatkowski more interesting.

[Elefantino]

'Best' can be defined various ways, but for me, no one is more fun to watch than Sagen. He animates so many stages and makes boring stages worth watching.

And the man can sure descend.

[T.J.]

I genuinely don't get the Sagan love. I watch him and see a poor man's version of Frank Vandenbroucke.

He's going to win a green Jersey by winning a bunch of intermediate sprints.

Maybe I'll care once he wins a Monument, but I find guys like Dan Martin or Kwiatkowski more interesting.


For me it's a lot to do with the fact he has a personality , he is aggressive which in turn makes him fun to watch. Not many guys can go out in a break all day and work and still contest Gripel and company for the sprint when caught.

[shovelhd]

He rides wheelies at the finish, jumps cars, and pinches podium girls asses. Hey, what's not to like.

[Rebel_Biker]

has the mob forgotten the baldy stage at toc? I think he only lost 50 sec to gessink on the stage and he won the tt and the overall. The kid is brilliant and a real bike racer! Watching froome makes me want to breakout the roundup on the garden get those annoying mantises.

I can watch sagan, hannah and horse all day long.

+1

[gospastic]

He has 10 top 5 finishes out of the 16 stages completed so far in the tour.

[oldpotatoe]

He said in an interview after that the chest thump was the money chant from The Wolf of Wallstreet. That is, in my opinion, hilarious.

Sagan is awesome and is a beast out there. I'm thoroughly enjoying watching him not win every stage. Here's to hoping he pulls one out.

He has a strange pedal/leg setup/look on the bike. Bow legged looking, with feet way out. Also almost looks like his bike is too small.

PLUS did anybody else think Adam Hanson(Lotto-Soudal) handlebars are really narrow?

[ANAO]

He has a strange pedal/leg setup/look on the bike. Bow legged looking, with feet way out. Also almost looks like his bike is too small.

PLUS did anybody else think Adam Hanson(Lotto-Soudal) handlebars are really narrow?

They are narrow. That's his thing. He rides a 38.

http://images.cyclingtips.com.au/content/uploads/2015/01/2N4A8777.jpg

[Climb01742]

He's going to win a green Jersey by winning a bunch of intermediate sprints.

Yes, and finishing 2nd four or five times, and other top 10 in stages. The green jersey is for the most consistently high placing rider. PS has done it over all kinds of terrains too. Sure seems to fit the green jersey yardstick.:D

[FlashUNC]

Yes, and finishing 2nd four or five times, and other top 10 in stages. The green jersey is for the most consistently high placing rider. PS has done it over all kinds of terrains too. Sure seems to fit the green jersey yardstick.:D

Winning intermediate sprints isn't how I'd characterize "best sprinter."

Like Jalabert winning the KOM in the late 90s. Its a strategy, just not a very interesting or dominating one.

[T.J.]

Oddly enough I have read here on the forums about how people think the era of the specialist have ruined cycling. Everyone talks about the days when guys raced spring classics and the tour etc etc. it's said its boring to watch guys who train for one race and one race only.
Here is a guy who does it all. Spring classics. The tour. Gets in breaks. Contests sprints. Climbs better than any sprinter I've seen. Goes downhill like a beast. Isn't a robot personality wise. Not good enough?

[Climb01742]

Winning intermediate sprints isn't how I'd characterize "best sprinter."

Like Jalabert winning the KOM in the late 90s. Its a strategy, just not a very interesting or dominating one.

The green jersey isn't for best sprinter. It's for the points competition, hence most consistent daily finisher over all stages. Like or dislike Sagen, totally cool, but he's the points leader as defined by the Tour. And it's hard to argue that Sagen hasn't made the Tour more interesting.

[ANAO]

Sagan.

[weisan]

Not only is Sagan the "best" rider, he has the best bump in the business...watching him is like playing video games...:hello:

https://vimeo.com/133903923

[Lovetoclimb]

Guess the Paceline Sagan haters are taking the night off. Good.

Love me some G Thomas as well.

How many cc's of horse testosterone did Geraint shoot up after that crash yesterday before storming the finish line like a mad man!?!?

Thanks to NBC's endless replays you get to see it even in slow motion and wow does it look bad.

[FlashUNC]

The green jersey isn't for best sprinter. It's for the points competition, hence most consistent daily finisher over all stages. Like or dislike Sagen, totally cool, but he's the points leader as defined by the Tour. And it's hard to argue that Sagen hasn't made the Tour more interesting.

Just like the polka dots aren't for best climber...:confused:

[54ny77]

he's one of the very few guys besides chris horner who almost always look like they're having fun on the bike.

[ANAO]

Just like the polka dots aren't for best climber...:confused:

LOL thinking along the same lines as you.

[gary135r]

I can watch Sagan, Hannah and Horse all day long.
But, don't take it from him. Take it straight from his horses mouth. ;)

[gary135r]

To me the best riders at the TDF are the ones competing for the yellow jersey. And I don't mean the riders competing for yellow early on who have no chance of winning.
Jeff
Boring though. Froome had one move all tour so far to get his time gap, and hasn't done a thing since except mark wheels. Give me the panache' of Sagan anyday.

[MattTuck]

Oddly enough I have read here on the forums about how people think the era of the specialist have ruined cycling. Everyone talks about the days when guys raced spring classics and the tour etc etc. it's said its boring to watch guys who train for one race and one race only.
Here is a guy who does it all. Spring classics. The tour. Gets in breaks. Contests sprints. Climbs better than any sprinter I've seen. Goes downhill like a beast. Isn't a robot personality wise. Not good enough?

I'm not sure it has ruined cycling. You always had people who had different talents and did well in certain races. It was the exception that someone could win one day classics and figure high in the GC of a grand tour.

My take on it is that the tour has made the tour boring. It is so formula based, and the script is so well understood, that it is hard to see a lot of drama in the GC after you get multi-minute gaps from first to second. I mostly blame the organizers for that. They, for some reason, equate crazy mountains with excitement. They fail to realize that crazy mountains may be exciting in the moment, with the crowds and the epic surroundings, but in reality only exacerbate the time gaps, they don't make the overall GC more interesting.

[FlashUNC]

It's the reason I prefer the Giro if I'm going to watch a Grand Tour.

Give me the Classics anyday. And Sagan has been a total dud there.

[MattTuck]

It's the reason I prefer the Giro if I'm going to watch a Grand Tour.

Give me the Classics anyday. And Sagan has been a total dud there.

Flash, Sagan has won Gent-Wevelgem AND E3 Harelbeke!! He's clearly surpassed classics superstar George Hincapie, who was never able to seal the deal at E3. :rolleyes:

[FlashUNC]

Flash, Sagan has won Gent-Wevelgem AND E3 Harelbeke!! He's clearly surpassed classics superstar George Hincapie, who was never able to seal the deal at E3. :rolleyes:

To be fair to George, it was called Het Volk back then, no?

[MattTuck]

To be fair to George, it was called Het Volk back then, no?


Was it? I think E3 was its own race, atleast I don't see anything on the wikipedia page about a name change. I think Het Volk became Omloop het Nieuwsblad.

Regardless, it is clear Sagan is a classics star on the order of the legendary George Hincapie. :help:

[FlashUNC]

Was it? I think E3 was its own race, atleast I don't see anything on the wikipedia page about a name change. I think Het Volk became Omloop het Nieuwsblad.

Regardless, it is clear Sagan is a classics star on the order of the legendary George Hincapie. :help:

Ah yes. Got my Dutch word salad confused.

I'll start paying more attention to Sagan when he's done at least what Dan Martin has done. And he rode away from a crazed panda bear.

[Gfi3]

Peter Sagan FTW

Never get bored of watching him and can't help myself from rooting for him in every race.

[pinoymamba]

http://www.bikehugger.com/images/runningman.gif

[veggieburger]

Bauke Mollema. Hup hup!

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5373c9c6e4b003ad465398f8/t/53839724e4b0cfdce9f340aa/1401132838990/Bauke_Mollema-GregorServais.jpg?format=1500w

[kramnnim]

It's the reason I prefer the Giro if I'm going to watch a Grand Tour.

Give me the Classics anyday. And Sagan has been a total dud there.

How many hours of the 2015 Tour have you seen? Who have you found to be the most interesting to watch?

[denapista]

FlashUNC, don't hate the player hate the game buddy.
Peter Sagan didn't make the point structure for the green jersey.
The points are in set in place for consistency. You must have forgotten that he was brought to the tour to protect Contador and when that plan blew up on stage 10/11 with Froome blowing the lid, Sagan is free to roam now.

Sagan is top 10 all the time, he's marked anytime he makes a move like a GC rider and he still has the energy to be in the end sprint.

You probably think the refs should have called push off on Jordan in the Utah finals, huh?

Just sit back and recognize greatness

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/001/030/794/2013-08-2816_32_09_original.gif?1377732804

[FlashUNC]

How many hours of the 2015 Tour have you seen? Who have you found to be the most interesting to watch?

Zero. The Tour has been boring for a long time now.

FlashUNC, don't hate the player hate the game buddy.
Peter Sagan didn't make the point structure for the green jersey.
The points are in set in place for consistency. You must have forgotten that he was brought to the tour to protect Contador and when that plan blew up on stage 10/11 with Froome blowing the lid, Sagan is free to roam now.

Sagan is top 10 all the time, he's marked anytime he makes a move like a GC rider and he still has the energy to be in the end sprint.

You probably think the refs should have called push off on Jordan in the Utah finals, huh?

Just sit back and recognize greatness

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/001/030/794/2013-08-2816_32_09_original.gif?1377732804

Jordan is the GOAT. But that was a blatant push. If you don't call fouls during the most important part of the game, why call them in other, less important parts of the game. I've never understood the "let em play" argument. If there's no need for the rulebook when it really matters, like say deciding who's the champ, why have a rulebook at all.

Now, this is all moot. Bulls were going to win that series regardless. Too many horses that the Jazz couldn't counter, even with Stockton and Malone.

But yeah...shoulda be called. It was a Dick Bavetta game, so you know which direction that call was going.

[kramnnim]

I wonder who has the most points earned only at the stage finish... I suspect is is still Sagan?

[kramnnim]

Zero. The Tour has been boring for a long time now.




Well, that explains your previous posts in this thread. You might understand the Sagan love if you deigned to watch a few of the stages. Too busy chasing kids off your lawn? :hello:

[bobswire]

Zero. The Tour has been boring for a long time now.



Jordan is the GOAT. But that was a blatant push. If you don't call fouls during the most important part of the game, why call them in other, less important parts of the game. I've never understood the "let em play" argument. If there's no need for the rulebook when it really matters, like say deciding who's the champ, why have a rulebook at all.

Now, this is all moot. Bulls were going to win that series regardless. Too many horses that the Jazz couldn't counter, even with Stockton and Malone.

But yeah...shoulda be called. It was a Dick Bavetta game, so you know which direction that call was going.

No it should not have been called, though Jordans hand was on his backside the defenders own momentum carried him out of position. I've witnessed that a lot this season with defenders trying to corral Curry.
Here's a shot and foul that was not called. Curry makes last second 3 against Davis and the Pelicans, gets creamed yet no foul was called. They Warriors won in overtime anyway but Refs are not going to call a foul in the playoffs with a second to play unless it is flagrant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1--R5TyhUw

[denapista]

I haven't been more excited to see someone descend, than Sagan yesterday.

I mean the guy paced the break up the climb and still almost clawed back time with his crazy corner vibes down that hill.

Sagan alone has been more fun to watch, versus Sky controlling the front of the GC group, and Tejay hanging on for podium life in the back of the GC group. I liked how there were (2) seperate races yesterday, and the Sagan race was way more exciting.

In a world full of Pro Peloton androids, we finally get a normal human that resembles the everyday kid on his BMX bike (Sagan). The way he avoids drama with his interviews is hilarious. The press even chuckles. The kid is good. If someone can assemble a team to lead him out, forget about it!

You say push off and I say bad acting job by Russell. haha Jordan had ripped arms, but no man is going to give you a butt tap and send you 15ft away across the paint.

[pdmtong]

You say push off and I say bad acting job by Russell. haha Jordan had ripped arms, but no man is going to give you a butt tap and send you 15ft away across the paint.

you need to watch old bruce lee footage and observe the "one inch punch"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sdv_9MhOSoI
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/a3093/the-science-of-bruce-lees-one-inch-punch-16814527/

back to sagan. the one thing that continues to blow my mind is his ability to recover from a mechanical or mishap 10k out, and not only catch back on but surf up and then contest the sprint.

best rider? that's tough to say. but that guy can do way more things than most people in the peloton and I enjoy watching him

[ik2280]

The kid is good. If someone can assemble a team to lead him out, forget about it!

I like Sagan a lot, but I'm not sure if a leadout train would help him that much. For all we know, he might be better at freelancing.

[denapista]

A lead out train would conserve his energy and launch him. Look at Cav without a leadout train and with one. Sagan doesn't have the pure sprinters punch to win, but imagine if his train was setting a stupid high pace at the front, breaking down the likes of Greipel, Kittel, etc.

[oldpotatoe]

I genuinely don't get the Sagan love. I watch him and see a poor man's version of Frank Vandenbroucke.

He's going to win a green Jersey by winning a bunch of intermediate sprints.

Maybe I'll care once he wins a Monument, but I find guys like Dan Martin or Kwiatkowski more interesting.

Thought you haven't watched any of this tour??

Q-how much of the tour have you watched?

A-Zero. The Tour has been boring for a long time now.

[FlashUNC]

Well, that explains your previous posts in this thread. You might understand the Sagan love if you deigned to watch a few of the stages. Too busy chasing kids off your lawn? :hello:

Only Sagan when he tries to wheelie by.

And Voeckler when he makes faces during useless attacks that serve no purpose.

If he wins maybe as many Monuments as, say, Dan Martin, I'll start caring. But man, when Erik Zabel has won a bajillion green jerseys, tough for me to get excited about Sagan doing it.

No it should not have been called, though Jordans hand was on his backside the defenders own momentum carried him out of position. I've witnessed that a lot this season with defenders trying to corral Curry.
Here's a shot and foul that was not called. Curry makes last second 3 against Davis and the Pelicans, gets creamed yet no foul was called. They Warriors won in overtime anyway but Refs are not going to call a foul in the playoffs with a second to play unless it is flagrant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1--R5TyhUw

Its clearly a push. Jordan uses Russell as much to make that cut as he does himself. Did Russell sell it? Of course. Did his own momentum keep carrying him in that direction? To some degree. But he was pushed. Jordan's arm clearly extends, pushing Russell out of the way.

Its obviously a foul on Jordan, just as the video you linked was a foul on Curry. Refs not calling stuff in the closing seconds is a separate issue.

[r_mutt]

it's interesting to me that they changed the points structure to favor sprint finishes rather than intermediate sprints (the anti-Sagan rule) and yet he is still winning the Green Jersey.

i think his peers' opinions have more validity than ours, and this one speaks volumes.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1791694&postcount=16

[kramnnim]

FlashUNC, did you also not watch ATOC? Sagan made it worth watching.

I'm sad you liken Sagan to Voeckler, they are not the same...at all.

[kramnnim]

And...Dan Martin? Sure, he has heart, and that crash on the final turn last year (?) was quite sad, but I'm not seeing a very long list of wins...

[MattTuck]

And...Dan Martin? Sure, he has heart, and that crash on the final turn last year (?) was quite sad, but I'm not seeing a very long list of wins...

LBL and GdL wins. Two of the "Monuments" of cycling.

Yes, Sagan has figured into a lot of races, and he certainly has a niche winning stages and being consistent in ATOC and TDF, but he hasn't broken through at the one day races in the same way.

Will he? Probably. he's young and extremely talented. But I'm with Flash, that he needs different types of wins to live up to the reputation he has now, especially if people are starting to lump him into "best rider" discussions. The only thing the green jersey indicates is that the rider is the best rider at winning the green jersey.

[kramnnim]

The thread title is "Best rider not in yellow at TDF". Not "Best one day classic rider".

[FlashUNC]

FlashUNC, did you also not watch ATOC? Sagan made it worth watching.

I'm sad you liken Sagan to Voeckler, they are not the same...at all.

Most of the Euro pros treat ATOC as a vacation. And it took a monumental effort from him to beat a neo pro on Etixx's B team for the overall title. And even that came down to time bonuses.

LBL and GdL wins. Two of the "Monuments" of cycling.

Yes, Sagan has figured into a lot of races, and he certainly has a niche winning stages and being consistent in ATOC and TDF, but he hasn't broken through at the one day races in the same way.

Will he? Probably. he's young and extremely talented. But I'm with Flash, that he needs different types of wins to live up to the reputation he has now, especially if people are starting to lump him into "best rider" discussions. The only thing the green jersey indicates is that the rider is the best rider at winning the green jersey.

Here's his results in the Monuments the last five years:

MSR: 17, 4, 2, 10, 4
Ronde: DNF, 5, 2, 16, 4
Roubaix: 86, DNS, DNS, 6, 23
LBL: DNS, DNS, DNS, DNS, DNS
Lombardia: DNS, DNS, DNF, DNS, TBD

Last time he had double digit wins in a year was 2013.

In Tom Boonen's age 25 year, he won Ronde, Roubaix and the Worlds.

I get the likable personality and all that. But maybe I'm with Oleg on this one. If he's that talented, where are the results in the biggest races where he's supposed to really shine, the Classics? Two semi-classics are all he has to his name right now.

[denapista]

To be honest, the best rider not in yellow could fall on three sets of shoulders (Valverde, Thomas and Sagan). All 3 of these dudes are ripping!

I hope Valverde attacks in the Alps for a podium spot and in doing so taking Froome along with him, then letting Quintana go long!

[MattTuck]

Yes, well, what definition of "best" do you want to use?

The 'best', is by its nature a little vague, and each person will bring their own perspective when they try to apply it to a rider.

best rider not in yellow at TDF:

Quintana (if you use current GC as your criteria)
Sagan (if you use green jersey points as your criteria)
Greipel (if you use 2015 TDF stage wins as your criteria)
Cavendish (if you use all time TDF stage wins)
Purito (if you use wins on uphill finishes)
Contador (if you use all time grand tour wins)


If you start to look at criteria outside the TDF, you have to agree that Sagan's wins have been mostly at B grade events. The wins at the big one day events have been elusive. That is just the fact pattern. Whether that figures into a person's definition of whether a rider is the 'best', it depends on the person.

[bobswire]

I've read two theories, that Sagan needs to beef up to win more sprints/Classic or lose weight to contest GT Stages or even become a GT contender. He actually looks more muscled to me than he was in the past.

[kramnnim]

Who decided that he is supposed to be good at the Classics? I guess when Oleg says jump, you jump...

Oleg seems to be quite pleased with Sagans current performances...

Yes, ATOC is a bit of a joke. But Alaphillipe did quite well in the Classics... And its not like Sagan was expected to win the GC, or even close.

It seems like you are basing your opinions only on the stats across the finish line, and since you have not been watching the actual races, you don't see just how hard Sagan has been working. So of course you don't understand the Sagan love.

[FlashUNC]

Who decided that he is supposed to be good at the Classics?

Pretty much everything about him? Where else are 6 foot, 170lb-ish riders supposed to succeed? He's professed his love for the classics too. He just happens to not be particularly successful at them so far.

The Sagan love this year reminds me of the Voeckler love a couple years ago. People finding something to fawn over in an otherwise boring race.

I'll admit he's got talent and maybe that'll turn into some notable wins, but the early career hype -- admittedly not of his own making -- and some of his antics -- totally his own making -- and his disappearances in big races -- also his own making -- turned me off to the guy.

He's a sprinter who can't sprint as well as the fast guys, and a climber who can't climb as well as the other guys. And seems unable to figure out how to combine the Jack of All Trades, Master of None thing into wins.

I'm just glad the "Next Eddy Merckx" nonsense has stopped.

[MattTuck]

I'm just glad the "Next Eddy Merckx" nonsense has stopped.

He may be "the next" someone else...

remember this?
There, I said it. I really, really want to cheer for this guy. Seriously, I do. He seems like a genuinely good guy, and he had so much promise. But it's time to be honest with myself and recognize a hard truth: this guy only has a podium chance if the top talent screws up and serves it to him. [Redacted] has some seriously good riders, but [Redacted] just isn't one of them. When it comes down to a sprint finish, and assuming there are other strong-ish sprinters in the mix, he's lucky to land top 5. Now, I recognize that even the best have low win percentages, but this guy's home address is somewhere between 5 and 15. By any standard, that marks him as one of the world's top riders. But a sprinter's job isn't to come in alongside the leadout men, it's to land on the podium.

[numbskull]

He is fun to watch. That is enough for me.

[kramnnim]

Voeckler is just out there to get time in front of the cameras.

If "most combative" had a points system, Sagan would be leading it... Wouldn't be surprising if he won the "most combative overall" prize in Paris.

Whatever the class of rider that guys like Degenkolb and Matthews fit in, Sagan fits in there, too.

[downtube]

Sagan is awesome to watch. He is always pushing, not afraid to be animated and a supurb athlete. He is a guy that is a real threat on most days and that makes everyone have to work that much harder. He adds excitement to the race and I find myself routing for him on every stage. For me he has become the personality of the pro tour. chuck

[Louis]

If "most combative" had a points system, Sagan would be leading it... Wouldn't be surprising if he won the "most combative overall" prize in Paris.

I thought there is and he was leading it?

[jr59]

He is fun to watch. That is enough for me.

Yep, me too! After all that is why I watch pro sports.

[beeatnik]

He may be "the next" someone else...



Comparing Sagan's palmares to Farrar's, now that's a low blow.

[MattTuck]

Comparing Sagan's palmares to Farrar's, now that's a low blow.

Ha! I jest!

Just thought it was funny when one guy doesn't win and he is the best, and another guy doesn't win and he is the worst.

I forget which TDF it was that Farrar was doing pretty good (atleast in the sprints) but not winning. Would be fun to go back and see what the comments were on whether he was a loser or animating the race. I know it is different... different types of stages, different type of riding, just think it would be an interesting comparison.

[T.J.]

Ha! I jest!

Just thought it was funny when one guy doesn't win and he is the best, and another guy doesn't win and he is the worst.

I forget which TDF it was that Farrar was doing pretty good (atleast in the sprints) but not winning. Would be fun to go back and see what the comments were on whether he was a loser or animating the race. I know it is different... different types of stages, different type of riding, just think it would be an interesting comparison.

Don't believe you can compare the two. They are completely different style riders. While Tyler may have came in third in the sprint same as Sagan, I believe Sagan has the fans because he may have been in the break all day humping it over the climbs all day before the field caught them while Tyler sat in all day

[gary135r]

You probably think the refs should have called push off on Jordan in the Utah finals, huh?

Just sit back and recognize greatness

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/001/030/794/2013-08-2816_32_09_original.gif?1377732804
Besides Malcolm Butler (biased for sure), One of the great moments in sports

[kramnnim]

I thought there is and he was leading it?

I meant this one- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combativity_award_in_the_Tour_de_France

They like to give it to French riders, of course.

[slidey]

Clearly the title of the thread is biased, because the best rider not in yellow at the TdF is the guy who's second.

But, from purely a stats point of view - I'm quite impressed with Sagan's consistent performance (per my view) thus far at the TdF this year.

I'm with FlashUNC for the lack of interest in TdF - I've stopped watching them for the past couple of years now. Its like watching drug testing on 2 wheels for the most part. :bike:

[jlwdm]

...

I'm with FlashUNC for the lack of interest in TdF - I've stopped watching them for the past couple of years now. Its like watching drug testing on 2 wheels for the most part. :bike:

I don't see how you can be a fan of cycling and not enjoying every day of the TDF. The best riders in the world riding for three weeks on a variety of stages in a beautiful country.

I love the little things like just watching the peloton pick up the pace so everyone is single file. Watching the single line take corners looks great on camera. The camera work is impressive these days.

I have watched the tour for many, many years and maybe it means a little more to me after going on a bike tour for the last two weeks of the 2001 tour. It is a spectacle.

Jeff

[FlashUNC]

I don't see how you can be a fan of cycling and not enjoying every day of the TDF. The best riders in the world riding for three weeks on a variety of stages in a beautiful country.

I love the little things like just watching the peloton pick up the pace so everyone is single file. Watching the single line take corners looks great on camera. The camera work is impressive these days.

I have watched the tour for many, many years and maybe it means a little more to me after going on a bike tour for the last two weeks of the 2001 tour. It is a spectacle.

Jeff

Give me a great Monument or the Spring Classics season anyday. More unpredictable, great risks being taken by riders because of the winner-take-all nature of a one-day race. Less low-key moments and the moments of tension are real moments of tension. Someone misses a break in the Ronde and they don't get to come back tomorrow to try again. That's it for another year. The weather sucks and the spindly climbers don't even bother. You've got to be a certified lunatic to win some of those one-day races. And I don't have to wait for the better part of a month to find a winner.

I enjoy Grand Tours. Both the Vuelta and Giro have been more willing to experiment with formats, staging and routes. The Tour is so stodgy with its attitude. They climb the same climbs and ride the same routes without too much permutation. Sure, they'll start in the Pyrenees one year and the Alps the next, but its all the same. Why not figure out a why to get back to Puy du Dome? The Giro and Vuelta are much more enjoyable because they've been willing to cast off some bits of tradition to make for a better race where it makes sense.

[MattTuck]

There are certainly parts of the TDF that are just not very exciting when compared to one day races. On the other hand, there are aspects of the TDF that are genuinely interesting, and non-existent in the one day races.

Because of the nature of stage racing and, to a large extent, the route selection, the TDF lacks a certain 'war of attrition' feel to it. It seems to be much more of a carnival on wheels, just going from city to city.

However, the high mountains are unique to stage racing, and could actually be more interesting if there weren't so many of them. And time trials, although boring to watch, inject a good bit of drama into the race.

There is something cool about a stage race, assuming it is not a run away for someone. Otherwise, it becomes a series of somewhat uninspired races through interesting countryside. This is, of course, shielded from view because of things like the green jersey, polka dot jersey, intermediate sprints, etc.

I still like it. And you still have some interesting races. But it is a different race when every rider needs to save themselves for tomorrow's stage.

[jlwdm]

...

The Giro and Vuelta are much more enjoyable because they've been willing to cast off some bits of tradition to make for a better race where it makes sense.

The Giro and Vuelta are like a minor league. The teams aren't as good and the stakes are not high.

Jeff

[choke]

The Giro and Vuelta are like a minor league. The teams aren't as good and the stakes are not high.

JeffTo each his own...

I'd much rather watch the Giro or the Vuelta, I think that they are a lot more entertaining. The last time I really followed the TdF Pantani was the winner; as someone else said, I find it boring.

[slidey]

I don't see how you can be a fan of cycling and not enjoying every day of the TDF. The best riders in the world riding for three weeks on a variety of stages in a beautiful country.

I love the little things like just watching the peloton pick up the pace so everyone is single file. Watching the single line take corners looks great on camera. The camera work is impressive these days.

I have watched the tour for many, many years and maybe it means a little more to me after going on a bike tour for the last two weeks of the 2001 tour. It is a spectacle.

Jeff

I don't watch the TdF or any grand tour, because I think in their present iteration they provide the greatest incentive/motivation to dope. I tend to believe that if the courses are easier, then more cyclists will be competitive eliminating the specialist cyclist (climber/sprinter, etc), and providing a more level playing ground (pun intended) to more, consequently reducing the need to dope.

In any case, watching the grand tours strikes me as being akin to mindlessly cheering on gladiators in the colosseum - it is inhuman, but everyone's doing it, so seems right.

[bobswire]

Oleg, what do you think of Sagan now?

http://i58.tinypic.com/2ely3oi.jpg