OT-wildlife conservation

[roman meal]

What do you do when protected sea lions begin to eat large quantities of endangered salmon?

:( :( :confused: :confused:

[roman meal]

It's actually a serious issue. Separate them?

link:

http://www.katu.com/outdoor/story.asp?ID=85285

[saab2000]

What do you do when protected sea lions begin to eat large quantities of endangered salmon?

:( :( :confused: :confused:

We keep our hands off mother nature. I know that they are endagered because we had our hands in there, but at some point we must let them do what they do. And if sea lions eat salmon we would be ill advised to start feeding them sea lion chow instead.

Just my $.02

[JohnS]

Sea lions and salmon are endangered? :confused:

[Ginger]

Depends on the Salmon. Some are working on it.

[gdw]

Bring in protected killer whales to eat the protected sea lions.

[torquer]

What do you do when protected sea lions begin to eat large quantities of endangered salmon?

:( :( :confused: :confused:

I assume sea lions are protected because their numbers are in decline. (I realize being cute & photogenic is a major factor, but not sufficient.)

Salmon, likewise (in decline that is, although another salmon may find them attractive, even if I'm not so sure).

At worst, SLs eat salmon until the salmon become too scarce to be a reliable food source, and the SLs either move on and/or adopt their tastes (unlikely, but not unprescedented) or their own numbers decline until the predator/quarry balance is restored.

The relationship between these two species is not like the relationship between us (as predators) and our endangered food sources (Chilean Sea Bass, say). We will refine our "harvesting" techniques when our prey becomes scarcer and scour the sea until populations are no longer viable. Our problem, in other words, is our ability to "adopt" outstrips that of other species.

Unless this is a case of a non-native species introduced to an environment where the natives have no natural defenses (like rats on Alaskan islands eating ground-nesting birds' eggs, for instance), I think the SLs and salmon should be left alone.

[JohnS]

If you read the entire article in the link, nowhere does it say that either species is endangered. In fact, sea lions are a nuisance in many marinas on the west coast.

[bcm119]

The Endangered status of salmon is broken down by species and geography (watersheds). For the Columbia river, I believe sockeye, chinook, coho and steelhead are all Threatened status, the status below Endangered... although for the upper Columbia, chinook are still Endangered. Salmon are a very sensitive species to human activity, and they're valuable as an indicator of stream health.

[Kevan]

Seattle had a real problem with SL’s hanging out at the base of their fish ladder. I saw the lions in action. It my understanding they tried shooting rubber tipped arrows at Sparky in hopes to dissuade the cafeteria-style dining.

I would have simply raised the prices on the menu.

[Chad Engle]

eat the sea lions, they taste like salmon

[jerk]

call this guy and offer him a sixer of carling black labels.

jerk

[sspielman]

What do you do when protected sea lions begin to eat large quantities of endangered salmon?

:( :( :confused: :confused:

Am I the only one whose radar is put on notice when the terms "large quantities" and "endangered" are both used in the same sentence to describe a particular species?

[bcm119]

Am I the only one whose radar is put on notice when the terms "large quantities" and "endangered" are both used in the same sentence to describe a particular species?
Yes, you get the critical thinking citizen of the year award. Don't be fooled by any crackpot fish biologists, just decide for yourself based on the wording in media headlines.

[OldDog]

I say let'em eat salmon. I do.

[JohnS]

Yes, you get the critical thinking citizen of the year award. Don't be fooled by any crackpot fish biologists, just decide for yourself based on the wording in media headlines.
My, that was a little sarcastic. Nowhere in the article was the word "endangered" mentioned. It was RomanMeal that jumped to that conclusiion. Maybe if you quit hugging your tree and actually read the article, you would know. Leave sarcasm to the professionals! :banana: :banana:

[andy mac]

In fact, sea lions are a nuisance in many marinas on the west coast.


a nuisance? i'm sure the sea lions feel the same way about the drunk rednecks that run over them in their boats.

:beer:

[andy mac]

In fact, sea lions are a nuisance in many marinas on the west coast.


a nuisance? i'm sure the sea lions in their natural environment feel the same way about the drunk rednecks who run over them in their boats.

:beer:

[bcm119]

My, that was a little sarcastic. Nowhere in the article was the word "endangered" mentioned. It was RomanMeal that jumped to that conclusiion. Maybe if you quit hugging your tree and actually read the article, you would know. Leave sarcasm to the professionals! :banana: :banana:

I regret the nasty tone of my comment... I'm back from my ride and in a better mood now. However, if you had actually read my earlier post, you'd know that the fish actually are threatened/endangered,* and since RomanMeal linked an article from a Portland news station its safe to assume he is from the area and understands the situation with salmon in the Columbia. RomanMeal is correct. The assumption that they aren't endangered because there are 'large numbers' being eaten is an example of ignorance, and it happens to be the kind of ignorance that is reducing the funding for the work I do, so I responded strongly to it. As for the tree-hugging comment, well, someone has to do it... but lets leave the name calling to the politicians, and get back to bikes. :banana:

*endangered species (http://www.nwr.noaa.gov/ESA-Salmon-Listings/Salmon-Populations/upload/1pgr04-06.pdf)
Note the upper Columbia Chinook status... these fish have to pass through the Bonneville dam.

[NicaDog]

Seal lions as a group are protected under the marine mammal act (http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/laws/mmpa.htm). Some species of sea lions are also on the Threatened and Endangered List. The main species found around Seattle is the California sea lion that is not on the T&E list nor is it listed as a "depleted" stock in the marine mammal protection act. Sea lions sit at the gates of Bonneville, the Seattle boat locks and other places where food. It's their own little McDonald's. Their salmon intake is seasonal based on availability of salmon.

Salmon, at least many of the NW species are in free fall and many are listed on as threatened or endangered. They on on this list not from impacts to the population from sea lions and other non-human predators, but from you and me through over-fishing, habitat loss, the damn dams and water quality changes.

It's not the sea lions fault. They know not what they do nor their effect. Can we say the same!

Enough said, you probably stopped reading well before this anyway. Sorry for the rant.

[sspielman]

I regret the nasty tone of my comment... I'm back from my ride and in a better mood now. However, if you had actually read my earlier post, you'd know that the fish actually are threatened/endangered,* and since RomanMeal linked an article from a Portland news station its safe to assume he is from the area and understands the situation with salmon in the Columbia. RomanMeal is correct. The assumption that they aren't endangered because there are 'large numbers' being eaten is an example of ignorance, and it happens to be the kind of ignorance that is reducing the funding for the work I do, so I responded strongly to it. As for the tree-hugging comment, well, someone has to do it... but lets leave the name calling to the politicians, and get back to bikes. :banana:

*endangered species (http://www.nwr.noaa.gov/ESA-Salmon-Listings/Salmon-Populations/upload/1pgr04-06.pdf)
Note the upper Columbia Chinook status... these fish have to pass through the Bonneville dam.

Don't we get testy when someone DARES to make a wisecrack when one of the pillars of political coorectness is concerned? As a biologist and conservation professional, I am well aware of the state of the salmon fishery...and my comment was as much directed toward the way the original post was worded as toward anything else....I still find it humorous. Maybe my Orwellian education in the art of doublethink is incomplete...and that is the source of my "ignorance" as you say....Professionally, I find that the zealots who hold a resource up to a near holy level to be every bit the obstacle to conservation as the uninformed.

[bcm119]

Don't we get testy when someone DARES to make a wisecrack when one of the pillars of political coorectness is concerned? As a biologist and conservation professional, I am well aware of the state of the salmon fishery...and my comment was as much directed toward the way the original post was worded as toward anything else....I still find it humorous. Maybe my Orwellian education in the art of doublethink is incomplete...and that is the source of my "ignorance" as you say....Professionally, I find that the zealots who hold a resource up to a near holy level to be every bit the obstacle to conservation as the uninformed.
This has nothing to do with political correctness. No, the testy reply was because this subject (not the sea lions mind you-just the salmon) was a subject that hit close to home for me and those I work with, and like I said, I responded too strongly. If your comment was a joke, I apologize for being an a$$, but I think you over estimated the ability of the masses to recognize it as such.

My response was simply to a comment that I saw, apparently mistakenly, as an example of ignorance towards resource depletion, which there is a lot of these days. I'm far from politically correct or a single-resource zealot, and I strongly agree with your comments about those who are. The ability to "roll with the punches" is valuable in this field, as is a holistic and realistic view of conservation. I would venture to say also that there is a lot of energy wasted by the "do-gooders" being politically correct, and getting them to transcend those trivial battles in an effort to channel their energy into realistic solutions is an ongoing challenge. But I think ignorance plays a more immediate and central role in preventing a lot of important work from getting done for which there are highly educated and caring people willing to do it.

The original post had little point, as sea lions are the least of the salmon's problems. I initially responded only to the uninformed claims that salmon were not endangered. Providing information for anyone who was curious enough to read this thread (not many) does not a zealot make, nor a treehugger...both of which have political agenda implications. The intention was to inform, not persuade. Tough crowd, but sorry for the sarcasm- you needed a smiley face or something. Cheers.

[roman meal]

Interesting responses. I actually got the title of the original post from Fox news, so there you have it for baiting headlines. Figured it would generate more worthy debate here than the original Fox article did, which was correct. I don't live in Oregon, but rather New Hampshire, so I have more interaction with Maple syrup these days than I do Salmon. I had no idea the topic was so charged. Back to cycling..