Bruyneel: Using low gears is "not cycling"?

[dauwhe]

A quote from Johan Bruyneel, talking about some of the climbs in this year's Giro:

"We'll be using 34x28/29 gearing - that's not cycling. We have struggled more with making sure we have the right components and equipment than at any other race in our team's history; even at the Tour de France we know that as long as you have a 39x25 you're good, but this race..."

I find it interesting that the coaches and athletes in pro cycling often complain about the difficulty of the races. But for most of us, we brag about how hard our rides are--D2R2, Devil Mountain Double, Mt. Washington...

Dave, not a cyclist since he enjoys his 24 x 32 low gear...

[Johny]

I find it interesting that the coaches and athletes in pro cycling often complain about the difficulty of the races. But for most of us, we brag about how hard our rides are--D2R2, Devil Mountain Double, Mt. Washington...


We also brag about how good our bikes are. But they just ride.

P.S. Difficulty is measured by the dosage of EPO, not the gear selection.

[ergott]

A quote from Johan Bruyneel, talking about some of the climbs in this year's Giro:



I find it interesting that the coaches and athletes in pro cycling often complain about the difficulty of the races. But for most of us, we brag about how hard our rides are--D2R2, Devil Mountain Double, Mt. Washington...

Dave, not a cyclist since he enjoys his 24 x 32 low gear...

If you get paid to finish these climbs in a certain timeframe you perspective changes drastically.

[sspielman]

A quote from Johan Bruyneel, talking about some of the climbs in this year's Giro:



I find it interesting that the coaches and athletes in pro cycling often complain about the difficulty of the races. But for most of us, we brag about how hard our rides are--D2R2, Devil Mountain Double, Mt. Washington...

Dave, not a cyclist since he enjoys his 24 x 32 low gear...


Weird stages like this make special problems for the mechanics...they have to change cranks, bb's, chains, rear derailleurs.....PLUS make sure that adequate equipment and spares are on hand....It is a logistical PITA. I understand what Bruyneel means...these guys climb brick walls with their 39-25's.....why do the race organisers get retarded?

[Headwinds]

P.S. Difficulty is measured by the dosage of EPO, not the gear selection.
...You are killing me with your quotes! LOL

Yeah, on the same note, I remember when the riders and coaches, with the exception of Manolo Saiz, were bit-ching about the Vuelta's Angrilu.

I do not understand... The race is too hard? Don't do it!

[stevep]

these stages are thrown in for tv.
the mountain stages of any major tour are freakin hard enough already... especially when you throw 3-4 or more climbs in a day.
there is no further selection necessary.
personally i think its stupid.\
when i see a field spring at la mongie or mt ventoux i will then believe that the stages need dirt to make them more challengng.
until then i think its stupid.

[Len J]

Weird stages like this make special problems for the mechanics...they have to change cranks, bb's, chains, rear derailleurs.....PLUS make sure that adequate equipment and spares are on hand....It is a logistical PITA. I understand what Bruyneel means...these guys climb brick walls with their 39-25's.....why do the race organisers get retarded?

Word!

Len

[dauwhe]

Perhaps Paris-Roubaix should be re-routed on smooth pavement to avoid extra work for the mechanics :)

The difficulty often makes the racing, whether terrain (Mont Ventoux, Paris-Roubaix) or conditions (the Gavia in the 1988 Giro). Last year's mountain stage with the dirt climb in the Giro was widely regarded as one of the best days of racing in recent times.

I understand that these stages pose extra demands on everyone involved. But I think they're needed for the sport, which after all depends on the spectators (who enjoy the spectacle!). And I'm also happy that the Giro is not a clone of the Tour. It was so exciting that someone like Jose Rujano could end up on the podium. The Tour seems to be very conservative in some of its route choices.

And heck, I'm a pretty weak rider--I probably average 21mph for a ten-mile time trial if I'm lucky. But I've ridden up 25% grades on dirt, and every steep gap, pass, and mountain I can find in New England. For the pros to want to avoid this kind of terrain strikes me as odd.

Just my fiftieth of a euro...

Dave "let them ride triples!" Cramer

[Fixed]

bro how about the first time mts. were put in the t.d.f. they weren't paved .the riders thought they would die ..but they did it anyway .
cheers

[72gmc]

I don't think it's retarded. I think it's inspiring. I began looking forward to the Finestre stage of last year's Giro when they announced it last January, and on the day I really enjoyed watching it. I expect that this year's ski area finish will be just as fun (despite the virtual motocross course shown in the cyclingnews pictures of Cunego's recon rides).

Throwback "hard" stages are much more exciting to me than a sanitized parcours.

[coylifut]

these stages are thrown in for tv.
the mountain stages of any major tour are freakin hard enough already... especially when you throw 3-4 or more climbs in a day.
there is no further selection necessary.
personally i think its stupid.\
when i see a field spring at la mongie or mt ventoux i will then believe that the stages need dirt to make them more challengng.
until then i think its stupid.

That Giro stage last year up the long gravel climb did make for good TV. The one they have planned for this year does look stupid.

[Argos]

I think the thought is that it is a hard and long day anyway, and the selection could be made prior to going up, what is it 5.5 km with sections of 24-25% If someone dabs because of wheel slip on a not fully dry road, do you want the Giro to be decided on that?

There is racing, and there are neat one day events like mt washington, etc, but no need to kill these guys that are already killing themselves.

As for the difficulty v. bragging. I hear what you are saying, it's cool to have an epic ride, but keep in mind, they need to have an epic day just to not get cut off. And they are not there for making it. They are there to win. Oh, and then they have more racing the next day, too. Yay!

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . (but ONLY on this one! ;) ) . . . Can someone explain a bit more about which climbs/stages he's talking about and why they are so hard?

Without knowing more, I guess all I could say is that dealing with race conditions and requirements is what Bruyneel and his employees are paid to do. His team in particular has a very large budget to do it with, so it seems to me slightly ironic that he would be complaining.

BBD

[Dave]

The 34/28 ratio quoted is the same a 30/25, so a standard 53/39/30 triple would provide the necessary low gearing with a 12-25 cassette, without losing as much top gear. With a 28T little ring, they could even run their standard 11-23 cassette.

I know Roberto Heras has used a triple on a few stages, so at least it's not unheard of.

[dbrk]

Less pavement, less support (make the riders fix their own flats), no radios, and everything would be far more interesting. Of course, the last time I really cared about bicycling racing was when things were like this.

no opinion about race gearing because what do I have in common with them?,

dbrk

[OldDog]

A love of good pasta?

[Ray]

What are arguably the two best stages in the Giro over the past 20 years? Finestre last year and Hampsten on the Gavia in '88. Very very very tough conditions. Got the riders out of their comfort zones. Made them race not just against each other, but the elements too. I'm all in favor of this stuff.

On my own highly limited level of cycling, I always look forward to touring days in crazy conditions with a mixture of dread and excitement. And they usually end up being some of my most memorable and epic days of riding. I'll never forget a totally drenched rainy day of climbing on a Finger Lakes tour a few years ago. It was hellish but awesome. At some point I got over the misery and started loving every minute of it, constant steep climbing through the pouring rain, descending sort of gingerly but still fast, sharing the experience with all of the other riders. Stopping in a hardware store for ANY sort of rain protection, since the pancho I brought a long was a safety hazard. Its a day of riding, along with a few others, that I'll never forget.

Put the racers through crazy days every now and then too. Like when the TdF did that day in the cobbles a couple of years ago - they didn't like that either, but it turned an otherwise boring sprinters stage into an exciting day.

-Ray

[Louis]

I've often wondered what TDF racers would ride if there were no restrictions whatsoever on the bike (other than no external sources of power) except one:

You would have to use the exact same bike for the entire race

(e.g. no cassette cog ratio changes, but you could change the cassette to a new one indentical to what you started with)

Clearly on the flats recumbents w/ fairing would rule, but since they are reputedly bad for climbing that might not be such a good choice.

I think you'd see some intereresting choices and they would not necessarily all be the same. It would certainly give us something else to talk about...

Louis

[weiwentg]

. . . (but ONLY on this one! ;) ) . . . Can someone explain a bit more about which climbs/stages he's talking about and why they are so hard?

Without knowing more, I guess all I could say is that dealing with race conditions and requirements is what Bruyneel and his employees are paid to do. His team in particular has a very large budget to do it with, so it seems to me slightly ironic that he would be complaining.

BBD

in the context of a 21-day stage race, such climbs may look good on TV, but will push the riders even closer to their edge. remember the racer who said the Tour wasn't won on mineral water (or something like that)? if the difficulty keeps increasing, the temptation to dope increases with it.

of course, if Discovery and everyone else is already doped to the gills, then definitely, Bruyneel has nothing to complain about.

[Keith A]

. . . Can someone explain a bit more about which climbs/stages he's talking about and why they are so hard?Quoted from CyclingNews..."So as a director I would prefer it to be less hard - I think the makers of this course have lost their minds a bit," he continued. "Paolo and Tom went and previewed a lot of the course recently, including Stage 17 - there's no road at the end: it's 5.5 km up a ski slope!" exclaimed Bruyneel.

[mtflycaster]

Here ya go.........

http://www.seanyates.co.uk/

[vaxn8r]

If you get paid to finish these climbs in a certain timeframe you perspective changes drastically.
POTD!

[Dr. Doofus]

doof for one thinks that they should make that stage harder -- some water obstacles with the cold-water piranahs from that movie with marjoe gortner, a couple a grenade-throwing terrorists from a chuck norris flick, and some run-ups in the shape of anna nicole smith

now that would be racing

[Andreu]

"Got the riders out of their comfort zones."

this is a joke, right?

[Headwinds]

If you get paid to finish these climbs in a certain timeframe you perspective changes drastically.

If you are a pro racer that specializes in one type of event, don't do a Grand Tour!

[Ray]

"Got the riders out of their comfort zones."

this is a joke, right?
No, believe it or not, it wasn't. I fully understand that these guys exert WAAAAAY past anything I would consider a comfort zone or than what they would. What they do on an Alpine climb is literally beyond my comprehension. But they're highly trained, highly specialized athletes, who are always looking at their power output, their heart rates, etc, and doing a zillion calculations on the road from moment to moment about just how hard they can go on this next section of X% grade and not blow up. While I know things get pretty gut wrenching at the end of mountain stages, so much of it just comes down to power to weight ratio. Is there a componant of guts? Of course there is, but with smooth roads at grades even remotely within reason, there's almost too much science to it. Its not that they don't suffer on ordinary climbs, but its a kind of suffering they're used to, that's predictable to them, that they know how to deal with.

Stuff like the Angrilu, Finestre, etc adds another element, an unfamiliar one, and ups the guts quotient and neutralizes the science quotient somewhat. Who can best react to the insanity of the moment when all of the finely honed stuff goes out the window and instincts take over? I think this changes racing in a very good way, at least from the spectator's standpoint, which is all I bring to this mess anyway.

So maybe 'comfort zone' was the wrong term, but maybe 'zone of familiarity' is what I was getting at. In any case, I think it's a good thing up to a point, and they haven't gone past that point since waaaaay before I started paying attention 10 years ago.

-Ray

[William]

Less pavement, less support (make the riders fix their own flats), no radios, and everything would be far more interesting. Of course, the last time I really cared about bicycling racing was when things were like this.

no opinion about race gearing because what do I have in common with them?,

dbrk

I like the old B&W footage of the racers wearing spare tires like bandoliers over their shoulders...and a couple more over the bars. No support back then, just go hard and get yourself home. :cool: Emphasis on "yourself".


William