Possible paint cracks?

[weisan]

So, first and foremost, I don't really want this thread to descend into another Paul Taylor-bashing fest even though I think he deserved it but that's not the purpose of my posting. I am ONLY interested in hearing what others think about the pictures I am showing here and any insight they might offer.

So, about a year ago, I noticed some crack lines forming on certain areas of the frame like the head tube and the bottom bracket mainly and they seemed to grow over time.

Today, I finally took the bike apart and scraped enough of the paint off to expose what is underneath. Interestingly, I did not find any cracks on the joint itself. I am wondering what could have caused the cracks in the paint especially in those high stress area. The paint itself seems pretty durable because it took some effort to scrape it down to the metal.

Any idea or possible explanation?

Below are some "Before" and "After" shots of the head tube and the bottom bracket.

http://alicehui.com/bike/HT1.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/HT2.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/BB1.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/BB2.jpg

[pbarry]

Problems in both spots, IMO. The ST has a crack, the one that shows rust in the before image. Wondering what's up with the stained areas in the paint?

[rustychisel]

Problems in both spots, IMO. The ST has a crack, the one that shows rust in the before image. Wondering what's up with the stained areas in the paint?

It looks like the OP has stained the area to better show up his concerns.

I can't see enough to make any kind of definitive (for me) call, but anything like that seems cause for concern, IMHO.

[pbarry]

It looks like the OP has stained the area to better show up his concerns.

I can't see enough to make any kind of definitive (for me) call, but anything like that seems cause for concern, IMHO.

^^Makes sense regarding the staining.

Looks like a copious amount of filler and/or primer from here. That may be what's cracking, but, I'd go further with some dye on the exposed metal.

[weisan]

Sorry I should have clarified. The so called stained area is actually me putting a layer of Rustoleum anti rust primer over the affected area after cracks start to show up. The feedback I have been getting so far seems to want me to expose a bigger area to see any other cracks, is that correct?:p

[Louis]

If you can't see anything in the solder or base metal in the worst areas (where the paint is showing cracks) how likely are you to be able to see anything in the other areas?

What's your plan once you have the paint removed and don't see anything obvious?

[mg2ride]

Paint cracks.

Mark it and watch it.

[weisan]

If you can't see anything in the solder or base metal in the worst areas (where the paint is showing cracks) how likely are you to be able to see anything in the other areas?

What's your plan once you have the paint removed and don't see anything obvious?

The reason I am willing to put my Taylor to the knife is because I am about ready to pay for it to get repainted. I am sure once we strip the paint and sand blast it, we can see EVERYTHING clearly. This is just me being curious and impatient, wanting to see firsthand for myself what's underneath those cracks.

As far as repainting goes, since this bike serves the dual purpose as a travel bike, I am inclined to go powder coating....maybe light blue like this Gauzetti. :hello:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/ce/a1/4c/cea14c1b64fabc80039c31f02463db87.jpg

[weisan]

Paint cracks.

Mark it and watch it.

That's what I did.

I observed that it grew over time.

What else am I missing?

[Louis]

I think the first thing you have to do is determine if those were structural cracks (i.e. in the solder or base material) or just in the paint. Unless you know the answer to that question it doesn't make sense to re-paint it.

Edit: if you can't see anything in the areas where you've already removed the paint I think it's unlikely that removing more paint will show you anything new.

[weisan]

I think the first thing you have to do is determine if those were structural cracks (i.e. in the solder or base material) or just in the paint. Unless you know the answer to that question it doesn't make sense to re-paint it.

speaks like a true engineer, very logical.
That's the step I am taking...

what do you think of repainting it this color? :D
http://p-fst1.pixstatic.com/556679102a099a2675006226/_w.540_s.fit_/public%20mixte%20bike.png

[mg2ride]

That's what I did.

I observed that it grew over time.

What else am I missing?

Once the paint cracked, there was no question that it would grow.

Mark the metal and watch it for cracks that would have reflected in the paint.

[rustychisel]

I can't quite picture you in a floral pattern dress, but, whatever...

Maybe Molteni orange, 2 shades deeper

[Peter B]

Looks like a fair bit of bondo was used to smooth the joints before paint and that seems to be what's cracking. Just finish stripping it so you can get a good look at the true joints.

[weisan]

Looks like a fair bit of bondo was used to smooth the joints before paint and that seems to be what's cracking. Just finish stripping it so you can get a good look at the true joints.

Thank you Master P. I hear more or less the same response from another pal.

May I ask, is there a reason why someone would use more bondo than perhaps necessary, especially in this context?

[Peter B]

Thank you Master P. I hear more or less the same response from another pal.

May I ask, is there a reason why someone would use more bondo than perhaps necessary, especially in this context?

Because they can't lay a fillet like Steve Rex, Steve Garro or Eric Estlund.

[weisan]

Thank you, Master P.

[mnoble485]

Because they can't lay a fillet like Steve Rex, Steve Garro or Eric Estlund.

You left out, in my opinion, the master, Dave Kirk. That being said, is it common practice to use a bondo/filler prior to paint? I don't know if any builders would respond but just curious. I don't think it would diminish my opinion of my Hampsten at all.

Mike

[druptight]

IMO, if you're good with your fillets and your finish work, no bondo should be necessary. I'd be fairly upset if I paid top dollar for a frame only to find out down the line that the builder used bondo to hide their shoddy fillet work.

That being said, if this is a Taylor, you most likely didn't pay top dollar, so maybe some quick dirty fillet and bondo work is expected.

Lastly, I'm not sure why we think that's bondo vs. just the fillet we're seeing peek through.

[malcolm]

I know nothing of Taylors.

I'll say this about fillet brazed bikes and I'm not a builder so I may be wrong. I can't imagine why a properly laid and finished/filed fillet should require bondo.
I also can't tell from the picture if that is bondo or the thickness of it. It could well just be primer, but I'll admit my eyes are not the best.

[buldogge]

Small amounts of filler (sometimes "JB Weld") is used to fill less than perfect fillets, especially pockmarks/pits. There could also be high build primer used over the entire fillet to create smoother transitions...think Cinelli Laser.

-Mark in St. Louis

[jmoore]

This is an excellent color for a bike

As far as repainting goes, since this bike serves the dual purpose as a travel bike, I am inclined to go powder coating....maybe light blue like this Gauzetti. :hello:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/ce/a1/4c/cea14c1b64fabc80039c31f02463db87.jpg

[weisan]

bits & pieces

[na3s]

Bondo?

[Asudef]

Weren't the old Scapins devalued because all the filleted looking joints were filled with bond and the cracks got people worrying about the frame?