Retrogrouch in Carbonland: What do I need to know to assemble a newfangled bike?

[Avincent52]

Over the next week or so I'll be getting the pieces of my first-ever carbon bike. My first ever index shifter bike. And for that matter my first ever *clincher* road bike.
The bike is a Tarmac Pro SL2 and the gruppo is Campagnolo Chorus/Record, both bought from the classifieds here. (Thanks Jalal/Aaron.)

Here are nine things I think I know about building this bike. Feel free to add to the list or correct my abject ignorance.

1) I should buy genuine Campagnolo cables (instead of Jagwire or something)
2) I need a torque wrench. (But which one?)
3) I need to grease my aluminum seatpost before inserting into my carbon frame. Or not? And with what? I gather that most bikes are vegan now, so pork fat is out.
4) I should get a chain catcher. (Yogi Berra > Johnny Bench)
5) I should buy a brand spanking new Campagnolo chain. (And the Record chain is worth $7 more than the Chorus chain because of those itsy bitsy letters on the plates.)

http://www.wigglestatic.com/images/campy-record-11chain-med.jpg?w=430&h=430&a=7
6) To install the Chorus cranks on the BB30 (or is it OSBB?) frame, I'll need these Campy adapters.
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/campagnolo-ultra-torque-bb30-adapter
7) I should have a bike shop do this.
8) I should check real-world wheel clearances *before* buying 25mm tires.
9) Handlebar tape is pretty much the same.

(But seriously, thanks so much for the warm welcome here, and all the sage advice. Not to mention the enabler factor of those oh-so-tempting classifieds.)

[FlashUNC]

Cables don't matter all that much. I use Jagwire on both my bikes and they're fine.

You may nee d to use carbon paste instead of grease on the post.

You'll need a torque wrench for pretty much everything.

Also, Torx wrenches if you're installing an 11 speed group.

[malcolm]

Cables don't matter all that much. I use Jagwire on both my bikes and they're fine.

You may nee d to use carbon paste instead of grease on the post.

You'll need a torque wrench for pretty much everything.

Also, Torx wrenches if you're installing an 11 speed group.

This. I use jagwire on most of my campy bikes and it works perfectly fine and comes in many varieties/colors.
Torque wrench, I have two parks, one low range of forces and one higher, simple bar type wrenches. Not the most new fangled or high tech but do the job and have been reliable for 10 plus years.

[Neil]

Carbon assembly paste, NOT lithium grease/teflon grease/pork-fat/etc.

No need for a torque wrench - just do the bolts up until you hear the crack, then back off 1/2 a turn*.

*Do not do this unless you like buying replacement parts/frames.

[ntb1001]

Chorus chain ...and cassette for that matter are perfectly fine. They will actually last longer as well.

[AngryScientist]

[QUOTE=Avincent52;1783900]

my thoughts:

1) I should buy genuine Campagnolo cables (instead of Jagwire or something) - nah, jagwire work fine, but nothing wrong with campy cables either.

2) I need a torque wrench. (But which one?) - good to have, but you dont strictly NEED one.

3) I need to grease my aluminum seatpost before inserting into my carbon frame. Or not? And with what? I gather that most bikes are vegan now, so pork fat is out. - if its an alloy post, a light coat of ANY grease is cool.

4) I should get a chain catcher. (Yogi Berra > Johnny Bench) - if you set up your FD properly, you dont need one

5) I should buy a brand spanking new Campagnolo chain. (And the Record chain is worth $7 more than the Chorus chain because of those itsy bitsy letters on the plates.) - unless you want to buy a fancy pants campy chain tool for peening the pin, buy a KMC chain with a quick link, or any 11-sp quick link to go with the campy chain. i like KMC chains just fine, that's the route i'd go.


6) To install the Chorus cranks on the BB30 (or is it OSBB?) frame, I'll need these Campy adapters. i dont know what kind of BB that frame has?

7) I should have a bike shop do this. - if you can use the internet, youtube and have some basic mechanical ability - you can do it, it's not that hard, seriously.

8) I should check real-world wheel clearances *before* buying 25mm tires. - probably a good idea. rim width matters too...

9) Handlebar tape is pretty much the same. - yup


as mentioned, make sure you have a set of torx wrenches, the T25 is important.

[Avincent52]

Thanks so much, gentlemen.

Pardon the thin layer of snark, but this is an earnest effort to adapt skills honed on old school Campy/steel to a newer generation of bikes and I appreciate the guidance.

5) I was so stunned by the fact that Campagnolo *makes* a chain (I'm a Regina man, through and through) that I didn't notice that the Chorus has solid pins (like the Regina Oro) as opposed to hollow pins on the Record (like the Regina SL)

6-7) I was referring to the BB as something I ought to outsource to a shop.

And before you say it, I do tend to go slow, and if something's not fitting the way it's supposed to, instead of forcing it, I'll bring it to a good shop --we've got a couple in town.

So thanks. And happy Independence Day.

[Jeff Borisch]

I was referring to the BB as something I ought to outsource to a shop.
And before you say it, I do tend to go slow, and if something's not fitting the way it's supposed to, instead of forcing it, I'll bring it to a good shop --we've got a couple in town.

I was just going to add this to point #7 but you said it. Patience is key.

I leave the frame prep stuff to a trusted shop employee simply because I can't justify the tool cost.

Also with the cables. I've had good success with Jagwire stuff for shifters but the Shimano's DA brake cable sets are a step up. I've heard the same about Campy.

[thirdgenbird]

1) Jagwire is fine. I like Campagnolo better. No need to sand down cable ends with Campagnolo.
2) Anything will do.
3) Ive heard arguments for carbon paste and grease. I've done grease with no issue
4) properly set up its not needed. It's cheap insurance for carbon though. I vote yes
5) I wohld go kmc. Easier to connect and reasonably priced
6) I thought the sl2 was threaded. If not, look into the praxis UT adaptor.
7) maybe, the rest of the build is pretty simple though
8) Yes
9) No. You can spoil a great bike with crappy tape. That doesn't mean you need expensive tape though. I like the basic Fizik stuff a lot.

[R3awak3n]

1)I prefer Campy cables to jagwire.
2) You don't need a torque wrench but I recommend the CDI torque wrench
http://www.amazon.com/CDI-Torque-Wrench-Tool-Bits/dp/B00IQBIHA0
You will also need a bigger torque wrench for the crankset. I am happy with the park one.
3) If alum grease the post. If carbon then carbon paste or nothing (depends on who you ask)
4) I never used a chain catcher
5) I use KMC chains, they wrok fine.
6) Don't use that adapter, it creaks like nothing else. Get a BB30 adapter from praxis or wheels manufacturing instead.
7) You can do it yourself.
8) Be careful because some 25mm tires are actually 28mm tires (michelin pro 4s for example)
9) I like fizik microtex handlebar tape but lately I put some lizard skin on one of my bikes, its expensive but its really nice.

[witcombusa]

You sir have now crossed over to the dark side :eek:

[Avincent52]

You sir have now crossed over to the dark side

The only road bike in the house at this moment is a Columbus SP "built by Ben" Serotta/Campy SR/Cinelli/Regina/Regal/Mavic/Continental tubulars.
And part of the master plan is to use the 16 pound bike with the granny gears to build up enough fitness to ride the Serotta in Eroica-like rides. Or just on a hilly road ride.

And thanks to the rest of you.
With the graveyard precincts yet to report, I'll ...
1) price shop cables
2)get a torque wrench
3) grease the post with *artisinal* pork fat
4) Yogi Berra
5) price shop chains
6) Shop the Praxis/Wheels adapter
7) fit the wheels before buying tires
8) Yes
9) Use the remaining bits of the artisinal hog to wrap the handlebars.
Nose to tail, after all.

[witcombusa]

The only road bike in the house at this moment is a Columbus SP "built by Ben" Serotta/Campy SR/Cinelli/Regina/Regal/Mavic/Continental tubulars.
And part of the master plan is to use the 16 pound bike with the granny gears to build up enough fitness to ride the Serotta in Eroica-like rides. Or just on a hilly road ride.



If you want to build fitness, you need a heavier bike, not a lighter one ;)

[Avincent52]

If you want to build fitness, you need a heavier bike, not a lighter one

You don't build fitness walking up hills.

[Neil]

With regards to (3), and without wishing to bore everyone stupid* you should not use normal grease if carbon fibre is involved - carbon post in a metal frame, metal post in a carbon frame, carbon in carbon etc.

Lithium (and other) common grease types used in cycling can penetrate the fibres and cause them to swell, locking the post into the frame.

This is only very annoying if it's a carbon post in a metal frame - lots of work with a hack-saw blade and maybe a ream.

It's game over for a carbon frame if it starts to swell around the post, unless you never, ever need to remove the post and the frame doesn't split.

Of course, this may never happen - your mileage may very etc etc, but given that carbon frames tend not to be inexpensive it's not worth the risk.

*Too late, I acknowledge.

[Avincent52]

Thanks, Neil.
Point taken.
I'll find other uses for that artisinal pig fat.

[jmal]

Nothing to add as far as tips, but you MUST give us a ride report once this is complete. I suspect your riding experience will be mind blowing. The move to indexed shifting alone is a huge step, not to mention just how fast this bike will feel compared to the old one. And I love steel too. I just think this will be like time travel.

[soulspinner]

Chorus chain ...and cassette for that matter are perfectly fine. They will actually last longer as well.

Yup. Put saved $ in wheels if you want to spend it for something you will notice. You are gonna like it if it fits correctly....

[Avincent52]

Jmal: I'll be happy to share my thoughts, assuming my mind is not so blown that I drool on my Macbook Pro and kill the solid state hard drive.
Or just sit there with the tires, wondering where to put the glue.
FWIW, the frame and gruppo don't get here until later in the week. I do have a line on some wheels, but I need a variety of small parts, and I imagine something like a Praxis Campy/BB30 adaptor won't be found in the parts bin at LBS.

Soulspinner: I'm going with the Chorus cassette. The joke about the Record chain is because it's only about three Power Bars more expensive on Wriggle or whatever.
The plan is a set of Campy Zonda wheels which seem to hit a sweet spot in terms of price/performance. A local TPFer has a set for sale, or I can just mail order 'em.
I tried a new Tarmac briefly in both 54 and 56--the geometry is the same down to the millimeter-- and liked the reach of the 56 Tarmac marginally better. That's what's inbound--a 2010 Tarmac SL in 56 in the "Naked Carbon" graphics--so here's hoping I'll like it as much as I think it will.

Given that it's full Chorus+ and I'll finish the build with quality cockpit pieces--3t? Thomson? Ritchey? Deda? Fizik?--either this will be a hot ride, or whomever picks it up in the classifieds will get luckier than Billy Joel.

[wss]

[QUOTE........

8) I should check real-world wheel clearances *before* buying 25mm tires.



I have a 2009 SL2 Tarmac, it has Velocity A23 rims with 25mm Gatorskins mounted, clearance is fine.

[bikinchris]

I want to make this clear. DO NOT grease carbon parts. You will likely delaminate the carbon.
Carbon prep will do fine.

[icepick_trotsky]

Dumb question -- is the necessity of the torque wrench due to the carbon frame or the 11 speed components? I'm also a retro grouch, and I've only ever used a torque wrench for installing square taper cranks. The rest I just do by feel.

[shovelhd]

If your feel is accurate, then you won't need a torque wrench. If it's not, then you'll be replacing carbon parts until you get one. Your choice.

[icepick_trotsky]

If your feel is accurate, then you won't need a torque wrench. If it's not, then you'll be replacing carbon parts until you get one. Your choice.

Ah, so it is a carbon sensitivity issue. Thanks.

[beeatnik]

icepick_trotsky...hahha..great SN

gonna see if Trotsky Icepick is on Spotify.

[Bob Ross]

I should check real-world wheel clearances *before* buying 25mm tires

I can confirm that this is prudent regardless of what material the frame is made of!

Ask me how I know...

[Bob Ross]

I want to make this clear. DO NOT grease carbon parts. You will likely delaminate the carbon.
Carbon prep will do fine.

Ruh-roh...How many years before the onset of this delamination?

I've been greasing my carbon seat post in a carbon frame for going on 9 years now.

[Avincent52]

As long as you apply artisinal hog fat over the grease, you'll be fine.
Artisinal hog fat also allows you to use 28 mm tires on the tightest racing frame.*

*Reapplication may be necessary.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8okPMTCUAAArOV.png

[Md3000]

Soulspinner: I'm going with the Chorus cassette. The joke about the Record chain is because it's only about three Power Bars more expensive on Wriggle or whatever.
The plan is a set of Campy Zonda wheels which seem to hit a sweet spot in terms of price/performance. A local TPFer has a set for sale, or I can just mail order 'em.

Given that it's full Chorus+ and I'll finish the build with quality cockpit pieces--3t? Thomson? Ritchey? Deda? Fizik?--either this will be a hot ride, or whomever picks it up in the classifieds will get luckier than Billy Joel.

I have zondas and they are ace! Great value for money, nice and light and fast. I have one bike with full 3T and one with Deda cockpits, both brands have nice bars that have classic bends similar to old 3ttt bars, so you can transition easy. (Plus looks better than compact or ergo)

[soulspinner]

Jmal: I'll be happy to share my thoughts, assuming my mind is not so blown that I drool on my Macbook Pro and kill the solid state hard drive.
Or just sit there with the tires, wondering where to put the glue.
FWIW, the frame and gruppo don't get here until later in the week. I do have a line on some wheels, but I need a variety of small parts, and I imagine something like a Praxis Campy/BB30 adaptor won't be found in the parts bin at LBS.

Soulspinner: I'm going with the Chorus cassette. The joke about the Record chain is because it's only about three Power Bars more expensive on Wriggle or whatever.
The plan is a set of Campy Zonda wheels which seem to hit a sweet spot in terms of price/performance. A local TPFer has a set for sale, or I can just mail order 'em.
I tried a new Tarmac briefly in both 54 and 56--the geometry is the same down to the millimeter-- and liked the reach of the 56 Tarmac marginally better. That's what's inbound--a 2010 Tarmac SL in 56 in the "Naked Carbon" graphics--so here's hoping I'll like it as much as I think it will.

Given that it's full Chorus+ and I'll finish the build with quality cockpit pieces--3t? Thomson? Ritchey? Deda? Fizik?--either this will be a hot ride, or whomever picks it up in the classifieds will get luckier than Billy Joel.

:)

[brando]

Ah, so it is a carbon sensitivity issue. Thanks.

It's also the elimination of steel bolts for aluminum and even more brittle, ti. I haven't ever broken a carbon part, but I started using a torque wrench religiously after snapping or stripping a few wimpy bolts.

[brando]

Ruh-roh...How many years before the onset of this delamination?

I've been greasing my carbon seat post in a carbon frame for going on 9 years now.

Wow, I can't even put in a dry carbon post without it slipping. I use the Tacx assembly compound as much for the grit friction as the insurance of being able to remove my post easily later.

[brando]

1)I prefer Campy cables to jagwire.
6) Don't use that adapter, it creaks like nothing else. Get a BB30 adapter from praxis or wheels manufacturing instead.
8) Be careful because some 25mm tires are actually 28mm tires (michelin pro 4s for example)
9) I like fizik microtex handlebar tape

Yes!

1) They work great and even better they say "Campagnolo" on them.
6) The campy adapter is terrible. the praxis works as promised.
8) 25mm Pro 4s are at least 28mm. They are huge!
9) Yes fizik microtex is great feeling, looking and well-priced. It might wear out a tad bit faster than some other tapes, but not much.

[summilux]

Two tools not likely in the retrogrouch arsenal will be needed (in addition to Torx bits):

-Long 10mm Allen socket for tightening up a UT crank
-Long T25 socket for tightening up the shifters

IRD and KMC quick links work just fine so no point buying an 11s chain tool. Patience in threading the cables through the shifters is also required.:)

[Avincent52]

Thanks Brando. I gather that the Praxis adapter is the way to go, although an LBS had good things to say about the Wheels Manufacturing kit. They did one, it went in easy enough, and the owner didn't come back to complain.

[thirdgenbird]

Praxis looks like the clear solution to me.

[mvrider]

Just finished my first build with 2015 Chorus, and I must say I love it. I didn't read all of the tiny instructions in the dense Campy literature, but figured it out just the same. Once dialed in the first time, it has been running smoothly and without surprises.

I don't build bikes often, so I had to learn from a few mistakes. Here are some lessons:


Yup, you need a T25 Torx bit to install the levers, install the RD, adjust the brake pads, and perhaps even to tighten the brake bridge nut (some nuts are hex, some are Torx).
You'll need not only the 10-mm Allen to tighten the cranks (this was out of stock at my local Home Depot), you'll also need the tool to tighten the cups. I got the Park tool. Make sure you know which way the cups thread (I didn't).
There are torque values all over the Campy installation manuals. Big torque wrench for the cups and cranks; small torque wrench for everything else.
The front and rear Chorus brakes are both dual-pivot. Pick the correct one for each location based on the pad orientation.
Chorus brakes need a 12mm thin wrench to coarsely adjust centering. Record and SR, 13mm. Cone wrenches are only available down to 13mm, but Park has a brake adjustment wrench with 12mm, among others.
When installing brake housing into the levers, make sure they seat properly. If they don't, the housing will crinkle and make a horrible mess.
Maybe someone has magic method to determine cable housing length; I didn't. I made my best guess and went from there. Interestingly, the Campy manual specifies the Park cable cutter.
The Chorus shifters come with cables and black housings... no need to order more unless you want spares or different colors.
It looks really nice to install the Campy housings with the "Campagnolo" and "Ultra-Low Friction" text upright and visible :)
Make sure the outer cage of the FD is parallel to the chainrings. This is clearly mentioned in the manual that I did not bother to read until after the fact.


Have fun!