WSJ Exposé on Descents in Cycling

[MattTuck]

I use the word exposé in jest, sort of. It seems to be a pretty well researched article.

The Madness of Descent: Downhills at the Tour de France Test Cyclists Against Time, Danger and One Another By Joshua Robinson (http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB12268843614978254751404581042321720914358)

“I see sometimes on social networks, ‘They don’t dare try anything. Shouldn’t we have a time-trial in a descent?’ ” Tour de France director Christian Prudhomme said, referring to stages when the riders go out one-by-one and race the clock. “We would never do that. It would be irresponsible. It’s insane. Yes, it could spice things up, but to what extent: killing people? It makes no sense.”

[redir]

Pretty crazy. Don't get too many big descents in the amateur ranks but I have always loved going down hill. Why not? You struggle so hard to get up there may as well enjoy the ride down. Worst crash in a race I ever saw was in a Pro/Am race in a switch back left on a big descent.

There was a guard rail and then what looked like a cliff into the woods. A guy on the inside went down and proceeded to slide across the road taking out riders with him. They all just went up and over the guardrail. I was sure some one died or at least was seriously injured. It unfolded right in front of me and behind I watched a guy just disappear into the abyss. It almost made me sick but we all just kept going.

Found out later no one died fortunately though there was some pretty bad injuries including one guy losing a part of his ear. Another guy wrote a blog post the next day, I think he was the one I saw just disappear over the edge, he some how managed to grab a tree and was stuck in a tree 20-30ft above the ground.

They didn't have that descent in the following years lol

[rain dogs]

I know that this is all 'wuss' of me. But play it out not today vs tomorrow, but in decades. Increased professionalism in the sport = increased competition. Increased technology = increased speeds/reduced drag/more aero. Increased demands = increased risks. All against decreased margins for error =...

I always think of the descents when I see these new bikes. Lighter, Faster.... more dangerous?

That new Venge is going to be quite suicidal going downhill if we're to believe the aero claims. Hope they ain't on the Tramadol and they've got good tires.

rubber side down boys :cool:

[kevinvc]

Wow, that's a cool article.

I don't have the bike handling skills to be a good descender. On group rides, this is the time I drop off and make my way down at a speed that's pushing my envelope, but still involves a lot of braking and speed scrubbing. Knowing one's limits is important.

[54ny77]

And here I thought it was about a re-emerging clothing brand in the pro peloton.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/42/7a/cc/427acc97ebf47cd3bd7a9afaf414b4af.jpg

[Ken Robb]

I think it's funny that the author thinks lighter bikes contribute to downhill speed.

[alessandro]

Great piece. The graphics and videos are excellent--better than the NYT, which started the seamless integration of longer-form descriptive journalism with video and graphics in 2012 with the article on the avalanche and skiing deaths at Alpental (http://www.nytimes.com/projects/2012/snow-fall/). I noticed that the WSJ didn't try to dumb things down too much for the general audience.

But are descents getting faster? The article doesn't say it outright, but the implication is clear:

“There’s been a flurry in the last couple of years of guys like Nibali, who have seen that there are gains to be made in the descents,” said Dave Brailsford, the architect of Team Sky’s victories in the 2012 and 2013 Tours.

Bicycle makers continue to produce lighter machines with better grip and more powerful brakes. Riders have been flirting with unheard of speeds during descents, touching 70 miles an hour. And race organizers have been responding with more challenging mountain stages than ever. The past four editions of the Tour all featured at least 11 downhill sections so steep that the road lost 50 meters in vertical elevation per kilometer. Ten of the descents in this summer’s race are even stiffer, averaging at least a 6% downhill, including the notoriously technical Col d’Allos in the race’s final week.

In the sport’s rampant doping years, all the focus was on the climb—the area where riders with enhanced blood could make up the most ground. But today, with doping believed to be far less prevalent, one of the biggest advantages seems to be a matter of guts. Descending barely requires pedaling, just seriously advanced bike handling. The only limit is the rider’s appetite for risk.

I'm sure there's a database somewhere of descent times ;)

Meantime, I'm going to re-watch Stage 5 of the Dauphine, which is exactly the same as Stage 17 of the Tour. The descending starts shortly after 34:00 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XMfV-jBvJ0
(thanks to CyclingHub.tv)

[BdaGhisallo]

The 1987 Giro had a TT down the Poggio in San Remo. I thoguht it was kind of cool. a downhill TT need not be off an HC mountain. a small downhill would be good.

[veloduffer]

Some terrific video. I like to descend fast, which is bit at odds with mr profession in risk management. ;-)

[thwart]

Descending fast after you've crashed badly descending… now that takes guts. Or insanity.

Because you know full well what the consequences can be.

[rounder]

The article mentioned Fabio Casartelli. I do not know if it was the same year or the following year, but remember a little girl holding up a poster saying "Adieu Fabio" after he crashed and died on the descent. Had a lasting effect on me.

[benc]

Interesting timing. I lost an old buddy last week to a crash while descending. The margin of error is so slim...

[mhespenheide]

Didn't the USPRO challenge have a downhill prologue a couple of years ago through the Garden of the Gods? Not a full TT, but still...

[aramis]

Interesting timing. I lost an old buddy last week to a crash while descending. The margin of error is so slim...

Sorry for your loss. :(

I try to hold a little back on descents but you never know and the speed can be so great.

[jh_on_the_cape]

Interesting timing. I lost an old buddy last week to a crash while descending. The margin of error is so slim...

Sorry to hear that.

[LouDeeter]

In 2009, I climbed L'Alpe d'Huez. I was accompanied by Helen, the hostess at the King of the Mountain Inn there (http://www.kingofthemountains.co.uk). The bike was a rental. She told me before we started that I wouldn't die from a bike wreck going up, but I could coming down. She emphasized that it wasn't my bike and while it looked good, there was no known history of it. In other words, take it easy on the way down. As we began the descent, she took off like a falcon in a dive to get a pigeon. I was a turn behind her before I knew it. I found myself braking hard going into the curves, releasing the levers through the curve and doing all I could to slow the bike before the next hairpin. But, it was a blast!!

[Michael Maddox]

Interesting...but considering the highest recorded (in competition) downhill skiing speed is 96mph or so, I feel like we're sensationalizing something that really is barely an issue. In the face of doping pressures and vehicular encounters, is this really what we're concerned about?

Of course, I've been fortunate to be a good descender. (Necessarily, since I'm slow as hell going UP the other side.) I think the key is understanding your line and how the bike reacts to your weight. Too many people get hung up trying to steer the bike and move their weight in the opposite direction they should be moving during a high-speed turn. If you're going to chicken out in a turn, scrub the speed BEFORE YOU GET THERE, don't freak out and sit up, only to go over the side.

[Wesley37]

... I feel like we're sensationalizing something that really is barely an issue. In the face of doping pressures and vehicular encounters, is this really what we're concerned about?

Off the top of my head, yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wouter_Weylandt


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI8iOqgIy5I
You will note how cautious Quintana has been descending this season

[MattTuck]

Interesting...but considering the highest recorded (in competition) downhill skiing speed is 96mph or so, I feel like we're sensationalizing something that really is barely an issue. In the face of doping pressures and vehicular encounters, is this really what we're concerned about?



I think we can focus on more than one thing at the same time. Skiers are on closed courses, usually with some run out area to the sides of the course and energy absorbing fencing designed to catch and slow and out of control skiier.

In cycling, they may throw a few hay bales in front of an especially nasty corner. There are plenty of sheer cliffs that have no safety measures at all. And many corners just have concrete walls as the 'energy absorbing' barriers...

It is a concern. Not the biggest, but rider safety should be paramount.

[Ken Robb]

I think we can focus on more than one thing at the same time. Skiers are on closed courses, usually with some run out area to the sides of the course and energy absorbing fencing designed to catch and slow and out of control skiier.

In cycling, they may throw a few hay bales in front of an especially nasty corner. There are plenty of sheer cliffs that have no safety measures at all. And many corners just have concrete walls as the 'energy absorbing' barriers...

It is a concern. Not the biggest, but rider safety should be paramount.

I am braver when a mistake might have me sliding along in quilted clothing on snow than when I might be grinding my bare skin along asphalt.

[Michael Maddox]

But this is ROAD RACING we're talking about. Riders are racing on roads built and maintained for vehicular traffic, not specialized Speed-Racer stunt tracks meant to optimize spills and spectacles for the cameras. If we want to consider the riders' safety first and foremost, how far away are we from having no more road races, and simply constraining bicycle traffic and racing to specialized, approved tracks? I posit that minimizing risk should actually mean "retaining acceptable risk," with emphasis on "acceptable." Providing riders with a challenge that IS a threat to life and health is...well...just a part of this sport. Otherwise, we're just ping-pong.

[jmal]

Interesting...but considering the highest recorded (in competition) downhill skiing speed is 96mph or so, I feel like we're sensationalizing something that really is barely an issue. In the face of doping pressures and vehicular encounters, is this really what we're concerned about?

Of course, I've been fortunate to be a good descender. (Necessarily, since I'm slow as hell going UP the other side.) I think the key is understanding your line and how the bike reacts to your weight. Too many people get hung up trying to steer the bike and move their weight in the opposite direction they should be moving during a high-speed turn. If you're going to chicken out in a turn, scrub the speed BEFORE YOU GET THERE, don't freak out and sit up, only to go over the side.

I would bet that 96 on snow with safety nets feels marginally better than 70 on asphalt. I wouldn't want to do either, but if I had to choose... Fifty on public roads can be quite scary, especially when there is a possibility of gravel, twigs, or an oncoming car creeping over the yellow. Add high winds and it can be a nightmare regardless of skill.

[BMS]

I saw this article on WSJ and read every word. Great article. My wife kept asking what I was so interested in.... It really seemed like the author put in a lot of effort to write that piece.

[jimoots]

But this is ROAD RACING we're talking about. Riders are racing on roads built and maintained for vehicular traffic, not specialized Speed-Racer stunt tracks meant to optimize spills and spectacles for the cameras. If we want to consider the riders' safety first and foremost, how far away are we from having no more road races, and simply constraining bicycle traffic and racing to specialized, approved tracks? I posit that minimizing risk should actually mean "retaining acceptable risk," with emphasis on "acceptable." Providing riders with a challenge that IS a threat to life and health is...well...just a part of this sport. Otherwise, we're just ping-pong.

We are heaps far away from what you are suggesting.

This is the real world where we can make compromises to a route that maximised rider safety. We do not live in a hypothetical textbook world where there are two options, polar opposites of each other, such as treacherous mountain passes versus sterile indoor cycling tracks.

There is inherent risk in any form of cycle racing and thats certainly part of what makes it all exciting. Sending the peleton down psuedo goat tracks is just a bridge too far. That's all that's being talked about here.

[rustychisel]

Prudhomme notes tonight's stage and the descent off the Allos as a key point in the race - bring it on!

Jimmymoots - did you know there's been lots of reports lately of thumbtacks and oil dumped on the descent of New Norton Summit. I commonly do +65 down there and at that speed I'd not want to have to deal with extra issues like that.

[jimoots]

Jimmymoots - did you know there's been lots of reports lately of thumbtacks and oil dumped on the descent of New Norton Summit. I commonly do +65 down there and at that speed I'd not want to have to deal with extra issues like that.

Yeah I did hear about the tacks and oil. All things considered it is pretty disappointing. In my mind tacks are one thing - an inconvenience and you should be able to hopefully 'ride one out' whether descending or ascending - but oil is a different story.

Given that plenty of motorcyclists hoot through there too, it is going to be a matter of time before someone loses their life if it continues.

I hear tacks are appearing on Anzac Highway and Military Road, too. Unintended (but entirely predictable) consequence of the media coverage.

[rustychisel]

I hear tacks are appearing on Anzac Highway and Military Road, too.

Thanks, hadn't heard, I just clued up through the AC forum. :hello: