is it really OT(?): french bikes, french cars...

[thwart]

From Jan Heine's blog comes an appreciation of things Citroën:

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2015/06/30/citroen-day/

[gdw]

I had the misfortune of attempting to travel through Germany in one of those marvels thirty years ago. We had an axle break on the autobahn between Berlin and West Germany. Limping back to Berlin through East Germany was an adventure and the extra entrance/exit stamps on my passport led to numerous hassles when dealing with customs officials in the free west afterwards. It's fitting that some of them look like a lemon sliced in half.

[ik2280]

SMs are one of my favorite cars of all time. I have a '92 Peugeot 505 wagon, would love a Citroen CX, or SM, or a Peugeot 205 or 405. All great cars. Also dig French carbon - Time, LOOK, etc. Still looking for my dream VXRS. The French just get it (IMHO).

[Louis]

The Renault 5 Alpine was one of the very first "hot hatches." I remember those from my high-school days (not in the US).

http://prettycarz.com/data_images/gallery/04/renault-5-alpine-turbo/renault-5-alpine-turbo-06.jpg

[goonster]

The Citroen DS was really in a league of its own. I had an uncle who owned a series of them before switching to turbo SAAB's in the 80's.

[ceolwulf]

I (and others I'm sure) were hoping that Hyundai were going to be the new Citroen when they brought out the rather peculiar Veloster but unfortunately it appears to be lacking, it's not much more than an Elantra hatch with an extra door tacked on ... Citroen just seemed to make cars with very little reference to what anyone else was doing, and it was wonderful.

[oldpotatoe]

From Jan Heine's blog comes an appreciation of things Citroën:

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2015/06/30/citroen-day/

jan and citroen, why am I not surprised.

[christian]

Raise your hand if you ever owned a white BX GTI. It's the only cure for Citroenitis. And I'm cured; now I want a 1968 Renault 4L.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/BX16V.jpg/800px-BX16V.jpg

[ultraman6970]

Citroen... good cars but as any european car, better do the maintenance when is needed or the car will explode from the inside out.

Renault and peugeot did not work here in the US either. The word I would pick for french cars is .. Fragile... ahead of their time but fragile, always liked those shark nosed Citroens tho :)

My dad a renault 5 back in the day :D... sucker held a crash with a bus, car did what it supposed to do, deformed completely.

2 of my friends had a 2cv... citroen needs to come back with the 2cv :D

[Black Dog]

Never driven a Citroen, but I have always wondered how they plane. ;)

[ik2280]

Raise your hand if you ever owned a white BX GTI. It's the only cure for Citroenitis. And I'm cured; now I want a 1968 Renault 4L.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/BX16V.jpg/800px-BX16V.jpg

Damn, Christian. I've wanted one of those terribly since I saw a bunch of them in Germany like 4 years ago.

[572cv]

I'm not sure how many paceliners are active Citroen owners. Maybe just me. Those of us who have come to appreciate the marque are Citroenistes. Those who want to appreciate the cars might be said to have Citroenvie .

I've had Peugeots and Citroens. Overall, they have been supremely comfortable, cleverly engineered and great driving cars. With notable exceptions, they have also been underpowered, e.g. the DS. The achilles heel of the older cars was the electrical system, at least in my experience. That has been corrected for die-hard current owners of old cars thanks to retro fit electronic ignition. What a difference.

What was great about the French cars, or for that matter, Italian or German or whatever back in the day, was the expression of national interest in the design of the car. They were designing first for the home market, and there was a philosophy behind the car. The DS sought comfort , efficiency and safety. So, it was the first mass produced car: designed with aerodynamics (wind tunnel), with standard seat belts, with the drivetrain designed to push under the cabin in a crash, with a steering wheel that could bend forward in a crash, with side impact protection (that's whats behind the bulge in the doors), with turning headlights, and with rear lights at eye level, etc. The hydraulic suspension is really an early way to implement gas shocks. And, its adjustable. The seats were supremely comfortable. On the other hand, when compromises had to be made for cost, a less ambitious engine was used, enough power to be competent, but not enough to be great. My 2cv was designed to be cheap to run, cheap to fix, reliable, comfortable, and flexible in use. It was supposed to put rural families back on the road after WW2. It was wildly successful. So I get to have a two cylinder, air cooled, front wheel drive, four seater which gets 60 miles per gallon, built in 1957. It will drive down a rough road at speed without discomfort to the passengers. It has many features designed to make it lighter, so it could use a smaller drive train. For instance, the side windows fold in half to open, to save the weight of a wind up window mechanism. But it still finds room for a two toned horn: one for pedestrians, cyclists and livestock, one LOUD for other cars. There is so much more to say, but the important thing to value for cars and bikes of this era is the many design solutions to particular problems. From that, a great deal can be learned and applied. Enough rambling. Time to put the Serotta in the 2cv and go for a drive and a ride.

[MattTuck]

How can you not love a Facel Vega?

Petrolicious did a video on one, the luxurious French brute (http://www.petrolicious.com/an-affair-with-a-luxurious-french-brute-the-facel-vega)

https://automotiveviews.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/1964-facel-vega-ii-2.jpg

[christian]

Damn, Christian. I've wanted one of those terribly since I saw a bunch of them in Germany like 4 years ago.
Buy me a coffee and I'll disabuse you of that notion! Now a Peugeot 205 GTI 1.9 in blue...

[texbike]

I've driven a couple of 504s and Renaults over the years, but the only Citroen that I've been behind the wheel of (and what a strange wheel it was..), was a SM. The only French car that I've owned has been a Renault Caravelle. The French equivalent of a Fiat 850!

If it wasn't for the French-threading and odd-sized seatposts, French cars (errr, bikes) may have been better accepted in the U.S. ;)

Texbike

[texbike]

Now a Peugeot 205 GTI 1.9 in blue...

It seems that every quiet, French village has one of these without a muffler. :D

[ik2280]

https://www.classicdriver.com/en/car/peugeot/205/1984/305050

[martl]

Raise your hand if you ever owned a white BX GTI. It's the only cure for Citroenitis. And I'm cured; now I want a 1968 Renault 4L.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/BX16V.jpg/800px-BX16V.jpg

I disagree the notion its a bad car. It was the cheapest way to get hydropneumatic suspension (Mercedes used this too, but only on their very top level cars) and because of the ultra long wheelbase, it would float rather than drive. Buddy of mine had one for years (a white one even), we used it on a couple of road trips to france. Always loved it.


The french have a history of making interesting cars, both from the technical standpoint and the design too.

I wouldn't really mind having a Talbot Lago or a Delahaye in my garage, or a little Bugatti for that matter :)

The Citroen DS is a bit cursed by its complicated mechanics, but one has to remember it originated in '55 (!). That is roughly 10 years earlier to when the US automobile industry started to discover there is a world beyond rigid beam frames, leaf springs and drum brakes. (of course, Lancia did independent suspension since the 20ies, but that's a different story)
So next to its contemporaries, the DS was like a space ship that landed next to an ox cart.
Not many would have had the ingenuity to design something so radical and advanced, Citroen had the guts to acually build it, sell it, and even be successful with it.



Also, french car isn't like french car, automatically. Peugeots up to the eighties designed rock-solid cars with good engines and more often than not damn pretty ones, too. There is a reason old 504s and 404s mostly ended there lives on the african continent, not few with sensationally high mileage on the clock.

[GuyGadois]

I've always wanted a Cabrio DS 21. The prices have gone to the moon on these. So many cool way-ahead-of-its-time technology in this car all in an over-the-top design that only could have come out of France.

http://worldcarslist.com/images/citroen/citroen-ds-super-cabrio/citroen-ds-super-cabrio-11.jpg