Attention Serotta Legend Owners

[bocobiking]

I have recently gotten interested in dating my Legend frame that I bought used. One way might be to use the serial number. Mine is CTI 63 5037: CTI (C for "custom," TI for "Legend") 63 (for the frame size) 5037 (the production number, the 5,037th Legend frame produced).

Oliver1850 suggested I try to find Legend owners who know when their frame was built and can match it to their serial number. With enough such owners, I could approximate when mine was produced.

Perhaps in the end we could build a chart matching dates with serial numbers, and fill in a little history of the Serotta Legend. We know that the Legend began production in 1993; Oliver said that his frame was made in 1994 and its number is in the mid-800s.

At any rate, if you have a Legend whose production date you know, I'd very much appreciate your posting that date and your serial number.

Thanks.

[CNY rider]

I can get you pretty close.
Mine was built in summer 2004.
C-Ti-54-05126

[PaulE]

CTI 60-04575 and was delivered end of February 2003. A year or so after, they started milling out the front of the headtube between the headset cups and also did some milling on the bottom of the bottom bracket shell, that will also help you date it too. If you don't have that milling, that may narrow it down to 2003.

[BumbleBeeDave]

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=99078

BBD

[happycampyer]

The serial number of my Legend is not in the typical pattern. It's "LS B 0214." It was custom, but does not have a "C" before the model initials. "LS" is not on the list that AngryScientist compiled in the thread that BBD linked to, but it's a full ti Legend. Not sure what "B" refers to, either. If "0214" refers to the production number, I wonder if Serotta reset the counter after 9,999?

I understand that my frame was the third-to-last Legend made, in the summer of 2013. Scott Hock mentioned to me that at one point in the last couple of years Serotta stopped machining the bottom brackets on Legends and Ottrotts, although the headtubes were still asymmetrically machined.

[oliver1850]

I can get you pretty close.
Mine was built in summer 2004.
C-Ti-54-05126

Wow. That was quick. I never expected to come up with one so close that fast.

[oliver1850]

The serial number of my Legend is not in the typical pattern. It's "LS B 0214." It was custom, but does not have a "C" before the model initials. "LS" is not on the list that AngryScientist compiled in the thread that BBD linked to, but it's a full ti Legend. Not sure what "B" refers to, either. If "0214" refers to the production number, I wonder if Serotta reset the counter after 9,999?

I understand that my frame was the third-to-last Legend made, in the summer of 2013. Scott Hock mentioned to me that at one point in the last couple of years Serotta stopped machining the bottom brackets on Legends and Ottrotts, although the headtubes were still asymmetrically machined.

Serotta changed the serial number scheme in 2010 I think. There's some discussion of it in the serial numbers thread. Yours doesn't seem to fit in with what I remember, but they may well have changed it again 2 or 3 years later.

[CNY rider]

Yep between mine and PaulE we have it bracketed pretty closely.

[bocobiking]

CTI 60-04575 and was delivered end of February 2003. A year or so after, they started milling out the front of the headtube between the headset cups and also did some milling on the bottom of the bottom bracket shell, that will also help you date it too. If you don't have that milling, that may narrow it down to 2003.

Thanks everyone. It seems like my frame was made late 2003-early 2004, which is close enough for me. I'm also surprised at how fast this forum helped me narrow it down.

One question: I'm pretty ignorant about frame building, so I'm not sure what the milling is that you mention or how to look for it. Any enlightenment?

[jmoore]

You know that if you mention owning a bike on this forum, you have to post pics of it. Esp 63cm Legends

[Highpowernut]

I believe mine to be a 2003,
SN TI 53 4165. I'm the third owner all in the Paceline family though. But from this thread it might be a late 2002 as paule, says his is feb 2003.
Makes no difference, it's timeless to me,
Bike)

[bocobiking]

You know that if you mention owning a bike on this forum, you have to post pics of it. Esp 63cm Legends

Ok, here it is. I posted the pic on another thread and got roundly criticized for the seat angle. I've since modified the angle, and it does feel better.

[AngryScientist]

Fads and trends come and go; but finding a bike finer than a Serotta Legend is not an easy task. A bike that is good at everything. Very nice- enjoy it.

[oliver1850]

I can't tell if yours has the milled head tube or not, but it would have a smaller outside diameter in the middle if milled. In other words, thicker wall section at the ends of the tubes. If you look at the 2007 catalog, you can see it easily in pictures of the Concours and Nove. It can also just be seen on the inset pic of the Ottrott, but I can't see it on the Legend.

[54ny77]

Sweet bike!

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go sit on an ice pack. My jewels ached and the perineum screamed just looking at that saddle angle. ;)

Ok, here it is. I posted the pic on another thread and got roundly criticized for the seat angle. I've since modified the angle, and it does feel better.

[jmoore]

Ok, here it is. I posted the pic on another thread and got roundly criticized for the seat angle. I've since modified the angle, and it does feel better.

My Bedford is a 64cm, so I will advise you to keep your eye on that bike very closely if it's ever near me because i'd consider stealing a ti Legend in 63cm.

[bocobiking]

Fads and trends come and go; but finding a bike finer than a Serotta Legend is not an easy task. A bike that is good at everything. Very nice- enjoy it.

Thanks. It rides beautifully, and it is the perfect size for me, with a 57cm top tube and 22cm head tube.

I started with Serottas in 2001 when I bought a Colorado III off the shelf of a store famous for its Serottas. When it got crushed by a livestock trailer in 2005, the guy's insurance money bought me a custom-made Concours from the same store. It's since been re-painted; here's a pic. Since then, I also bought a used Colorado III, so now 3 Serottas.

[bocobiking]

I can't tell if yours has the milled head tube or not, but it would have a smaller outside diameter in the middle if milled. In other words, thicker wall section at the ends of the tubes. If you look at the 2007 catalog, you can see it easily in pictures of the Concours and Nove. It can also just be seen on the inset pic of the Ottrott, but I can't see it on the Legend.

So here's a pic of my 2005 Concours' head tube. It has a ridge at the bottom, as you can see. Is that evidence of the milling? My new Legend does not have that ridge.

[happycampyer]

Here's a photo of the headtube of my Legend that shows the eccentric or asymmetric machining of the headtube. Material is removed from the front of the tube only, whereas the back of the headtube, where the toptube and downtube join it, is full thickness for strength. I think the eccentric headtube machining was only done on titanium frames, but I may be wrong.

http://threadgill.smugmug.com/photos/i-DDfwkkp/0/XL/i-DDfwkkp-XL.jpg

The bottom bracket on this frame does not have the extra milling, which as I mentioned above, Serotta stopped doing on Ottrotts and Legends in 2010-11 or so.

[SpokeValley]

Fads and trends come and go; but finding a bike finer than a Serotta Legend is not an easy task. A bike that is good at everything. Very nice- enjoy it.

Here, here. :banana:

[bocobiking]

Here's a photo of the headtube of my Legend that shows the eccentric or asymmetric machining of the headtube. Material is removed from the front of the tube only, whereas the back of the headtube, where the toptube and downtube join it, is full thickness for strength. I think the eccentric headtube machining was only done on titanium frames, but I may be wrong.

http://threadgill.smugmug.com/photos/i-DDfwkkp/0/XL/i-DDfwkkp-XL.jpg

The bottom bracket on this frame does not have the extra milling, which as I mentioned above, Serotta stopped doing on Ottrotts and Legends in 2010-11 or so.

Ok, I got it. Good explanation and picture. Looks like from what PaulE said, my Legend is 2003, since it doesn't have the milling. Nice bike, by the way, from what I can see.

[happycampyer]

"Nice" is one way to describe it.

http://threadgill.smugmug.com/photos/i-V5Dw2pN/0/XL/i-V5Dw2pN-XL.jpg

[54ny77]

sweet mercy mr. happy, when did you get that? that is STELLAR.

color combo looks somewhat familiar too. ;)

[christian]

Happy, if you didn't exist, we'd have to invent you. I have a soft spot for a couple of other bikes of yours, but I think that one is the creme de la creme.

[malbecman]

I must agree, that is one beautious bicycle..... :):):banana::)

[54ny77]

back when he was shorter, i was fortunate to pick up one of his sloppy seconds.

Happy, if you didn't exist, we'd have to invent you. I have a soft spot for a couple of other bikes of yours, but I think that one is the creme de la creme.

[christian]

And where did you think my Colnago came from? The Colnago tree? No, sir, no.

[victoryfactory]

I have recently gotten interested in dating my Legend frame that I bought used. One way might be to use the serial number. Mine is CTI 63 5037: CTI (C for "custom," TI for "Legend") 63 (for the frame size) 5037 (the production number, the 5,037th Legend frame produced).

At any rate, if you have a Legend whose production date you know, I'd very much appreciate your posting that date and your serial number.

Thanks.

I took delivery of my Legend in the late summer of 2003. (no milling on HT)
Ser# CTI 52 4958
Yours must be Fall of 2003 no?

VF

[slinkywizard]

"Nice" is one way to describe it.

http://threadgill.smugmug.com/photos/i-V5Dw2pN/0/XL/i-V5Dw2pN-XL.jpg


that is simply put...perfect!

[campy man]

Attached are a few pics of the head tube, tubing type n SN. If I remember correctly my Legend is 2004.

Weren't all Legends custom at that time? I remember spending a lot of energy asking the bike shop to simply convert a stock 57cm Csi to a Legend Ti.

[pdmtong]

sweet mercy mr. happy, when did you get that? that is STELLAR. color combo looks somewhat familiar too. ;)

Happy, if you didn't exist, we'd have to invent you. I have a soft spot for a couple of other bikes of yours, but I think that one is the creme de la creme.

I must agree, that is one beautious bicycle..... :):):banana::)

that is simply put...perfect!

need I point out the cherry on top? that's a six ben RSL stem...

as mel brooks once said in History of the World, part 1: "it's good to be the king"

[oliver1850]

Weren't all Legends custom at that time? I remember spending a lot of energy asking the bike shop to simply convert a stock 57cm Csi to a Legend Ti.


I've wondered about this, as some of the later catalogs don't have any stock geo charts. Seems to me they would have had to send some floor models to dealers and that those would have been stock geo. By that I mean built to pretty much they same dimensions as they had been in previous years.

Anyone have a mid 2000s Legend with a serial number that starts with TI instead of CTI - or one that's 57 x 57 and 73 x 73.5 and starts with CTI? Could have been tagged as customs and still built to the old stock geo. My guess is they built frames with the stock geo, but may not have advertised the fact.

[victoryfactory]

I've wondered about this, as some of the later catalogs don't have any stock geo charts. Seems to me they would have had to send some floor models to dealers and that those would have been stock geo. By that I mean built to pretty much they same dimensions as they had been in previous years.

Anyone have a mid 2000s Legend with a serial number that starts with TI instead of CTI - or one that's 57 x 57 and 73 x 73.5 and starts with CTI? Could have been tagged as customs and still built to the old stock geo. My guess is they built frames with the stock geo, but may not have advertised the fact.

There may not be many stock frames from 1999 on. When I shopped for a Serotta in 1999 I was told by three dealers that they were all custom. You couldn't walk in to a dealer and find a good selection. Only very Large dealers could afford to order "stock" bikes which would be then be made custom for the dealer. The few examples that I saw at dealers then were customers frames waiting to be picked up or the odd display sample that was not my size. I agree it would be interesting to see one of those.

VF

[54ny77]

Per Mr. HappyC's request, here's the S/N from my sloppy second Ottrott. ;)

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z113/jpmz06/Bike/IMG_20150627_105219_389_zpsfui7mpoa.jpg (http://s191.photobucket.com/user/jpmz06/media/Bike/IMG_20150627_105219_389_zpsfui7mpoa.jpg.html)

And here's a gratuitous pic from this morning's ride. Facial expression of pain duly kept out of photo....

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z113/jpmz06/Bike/IMG_20150627_091245_096_zpsjnu5t1ir.jpg (http://s191.photobucket.com/user/jpmz06/media/Bike/IMG_20150627_091245_096_zpsjnu5t1ir.jpg.html)

[happycampyer]

So the reason for asking 54ny77 to post the serial number is that that Ottrott was a dealer demo from 2006-7. The "O" is for "Ottrott" (no longer "Legend Integrated") and there's no "C," since it wasn't custom.

Another detail that is partially visible is the milling of the bottom bracket shell, which is characteristic of Legends and Ottrotts of that period.

P.S. That bike has a magic carpet ride. Ride it in good health!

[oliver1850]

There may not be many stock frames from 1999 on. When I shopped for a Serotta in 1999 I was told by three dealers that they were all custom. You couldn't walk in to a dealer and find a good selection. Only very Large dealers could afford to order "stock" bikes which would be then be made custom for the dealer. The few examples that I saw at dealers then were customers frames waiting to be picked up or the odd display sample that was not my size. I agree it would be interesting to see one of those.

VF

This makes sense, but are you sure about the year? If it was 1999, the dealer was mistaken. There's a geo chart in the 2000 catalog, but not in the 2001.

54ny77's pic of the Ottrott and happy's explanation seem to indicate there were still some stock sized frames still being made near the end of this serial number system. Thanks for that info. Also, I think some of the lower models such as the Heritage series may have only been available in stock geo. I realize the discussion was about the top of the range, not the bottom.

[victoryfactory]

The dealers I visited in '99 were basically saying "We aren't keeping any stock Serottas, if you want one, we will order it for you and since custom is not an up charge, you might as well go custom. What they may have really been thinking is "I could put three cannondales in stock for the price of one Serotta which the dentists can order custom anyway" Two dealers at the time also told me if I ordered the bike, they would refund the fitting fee. What this really says to me in hind site is this is about the point when the factory (and the dealers) began to move away from stock and become full custom. The rest is history.
VF

[bocobiking]

I took delivery of my Legend in the late summer of 2003. (no milling on HT)
Ser# CTI 52 4958
Yours must be Fall of 2003 no?

VF

I think that about nails it. Thanks everyone. This forum is great!

[bocobiking]

Well, nine years ago everyone helped me date my Legend Ti by narrowing down its serial number. I'm back again with the same request. I just took possession of another Legend Ti. Its serial number is CTI 62 4162. That seems to put it in the 2002 range, but it has an F1 fork and a 1" head tube. I thought 2001 was the last year for the F1.

If anyone has a serial number close to mine and knows the date of their Legend, please let me know. I'll post pictures when I get it built up.

[Dude]

Yall need a spreadsheet that where you can enter the serial number and date of purchase. Then you can see the sequence and timing of them all.

[Ken Robb]

There was no upcharge for custom vs. stock Legends when I got mine but mine was a stock and wonderful 60cm.

[tv_vt]

Well, nine years ago everyone helped me date my Legend Ti by narrowing down its serial number. I'm back again with the same request. I just took possession of another Legend Ti. Its serial number is CTI 62 4162. That seems to put it in the 2002 range, but it has an F1 fork and a 1" head tube. I thought 2001 was the last year for the F1.

If anyone has a serial number close to mine and knows the date of their Legend, please let me know. I'll post pictures when I get it built up.

Did you buy that red and white one that was on Boulder Craigslist (and shown in the Classifieds-GoodDeals/BarnFinds)?

[sailorkevin]

Mine is "C LS 54 720". I'm pretty surer it is from 2012-2013. It was equipped originally with DA 9000 group which was introduced in the summer of 2012. The NY plant closed in the summer of 2013. Mine is a 54 "long" -- the seat tube is 54 but the top tube is 56 -- and it was custom built for the original owner.

[bocobiking]

Did you buy that red and white one that was on Boulder Craigslist (and shown in the Classifieds-GoodDeals/BarnFinds)?

It was this one on ebay.

[tv_vt]

Oh yeah, saw that one. Nice looking bike. Definitely has the F1 fork on it.

[oliver1850]

Well, nine years ago everyone helped me date my Legend Ti by narrowing down its serial number. I'm back again with the same request. I just took possession of another Legend Ti. Its serial number is CTI 62 4162. That seems to put it in the 2002 range, but it has an F1 fork and a 1" head tube. I thought 2001 was the last year for the F1.

If anyone has a serial number close to mine and knows the date of their Legend, please let me know. I'll post pictures when I get it built up.

I purchased a Concours from the classifieds here sometime around 2010. Seller said it was a 2002 frame and it had an F1 fork originally. Here is the fork page from the 2002 catalog. You might find a close serial number in that old discussion of Legend serial nuimbers. I can't help as my Legends are much older.

[bocobiking]

I purchased a Concours from the classifieds here sometime around 2010. Seller said it was a 2002 frame and it had an F1 fork originally. Here is the fork page from the 2002 catalog. You might find a close serial number in that old discussion of Legend serial nuimbers. I can't help as my Legends are much older.

Thanks for the help. So it looks like my new Legend Ti is a 2002. I've finished building it up with Shimano 6600 triple parts. Here's a picture.