You can buy time with the new Specialized Venge?!?!

[waypastfast]

Gotta say this is some serious marketing material. Makes you wonder how much of this is fact or fiction.

http://velonews.competitor.com/can-specialized-save-you-five-minutes-over-40km

[berserk87]

I say it's sheer crap.

Specialized's claims are a running joke around these parts. If I added up all of the incremental time savings each year that Specialized attributes to their new gear, I would be in negative numbers for my 40K TT after 5 years. I would be going backwards in time, and getting younger, on the course.

There are guys at my local TT series that run loads of Specialized gear, that aren't very good at these events. I have a hard time believing that they would be minutes slower on any other equipment.

I am curious about how much the equipment actually does help. I'm riding retro stuff (aluminum Fuji Aloha that's about 13 years old) compared to most. I have well under $1000 in my whole setup, including aero front wheel, rear disc, aero bars, aero helmet, and skinsuit. I've heard differing opinions on whether you can buy speed ala really high end frames and wheels.

What stays with me is that your body is about 90% of the drag in the machine when on a bike. The differences in tube shapes, wheels, and such, from my bike to the high end stuff are millimeters. I am skeptical that it makes that much (i.e. 5 minutes) difference.

I realize that they were talking about a road bike in the article, but Specialized makes similar claims for these gains frequently.

[MattTuck]

If there is a placebo effect for a given product, can the company claim it as a product benefit?

Alternatively, maybe the saddle excretes that stuff that Floyd was putting on his balls, or shoots a syringe of EPO into your ass as you mount the bike.

[benb]

My guess with all these claims (even the carbon wheel aero claims) is the #s they quote disappear into the noise unless:

- You have the bike adjusted perfectly *for you* with personal wind tunnel time
- You're riding a damn fast 40k already.

They almost always do quote a very fast time to begin with but they tend to gloss over the rider positioning aspect.

[nooneline]

I say it's sheer crap.

...

There are guys at my local TT series that run loads of Specialized gear, that aren't very good at these events.

What?

Maybe those guys would be slow on anything.

Every company makes irritating and inflated claims about saving seconds, watts, etc - all the while leaving you guessing about what their baseline was. The difference with Specialized is that they actually have their own wind tunnel and actually do data-driven development. How do we know? Well, they're fairly open about it, and about their methodology (http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/06/can-the-specialized-venge-vias-really-save-5-minutes-over-40kms/).

Do max gains matter to everybody? No.
Do they matter to some people? Yes.

[sandyrs]

Gotta say this is some serious marketing material. Makes you wonder how much of this is fact or fiction.

http://velonews.competitor.com/can-specialized-save-you-five-minutes-over-40km

also note that the five minute number includes aero everything- bike, wheels, helmet, shoes, skinsuit, tires- versus non-aero versions of themselves.

[MattTuck]

What?

Maybe those guys would be slow on anything.

Every company makes irritating and inflated claims about saving seconds, watts, etc - all the while leaving you guessing about what their baseline was. The difference with Specialized is that they actually have their own wind tunnel and actually do data-driven development. How do we know? Well, they're fairly open about it, and about their methodology (http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/06/can-the-specialized-venge-vias-really-save-5-minutes-over-40kms/).

Do max gains matter to everybody? No.
Do they matter to some people? Yes.

I think that we had a discussion when they first announced their wind tunnel about whether the money came from the R&D budget or the Marketing budget... I'm not yet convinced that this isn't a marketing message with a patina of R&D.

[nooneline]

I think that we had a discussion when they first announced their wind tunnel about whether the money came from the R&D budget or the Marketing budget... I'm not yet convinced that this isn't a marketing message with a patina of R&D.

can't it be both? good products ARE good marketing.

aerodynamics really isn't rocket science. you can do some basic stuff like hide cables, smooth out lines, and then stick it in a wind tunnel. why bother lying about it?

[Mark McM]

Specialized built their own wind tunnel, and they have done a lot of testing in it. However, their testing has sometimes come out with results that have not been able to be replicated else where. Take for example, their test, which showed that shaving your legs saves 15 Watts. John Cobb and Chester Kyle had tested shaved vs. unshaved legs several times in the past, and found it make little no difference. (See this thread (http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/Shaved_Legs_%3D_15_watts_P5119845)on the Slow Twitch forum about the shaved leg test.

[Wesley37]

FWIW,
http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/06/can-the-specialized-venge-vias-really-save-5-minutes-over-40kms/

I’m sometimes told that I’m a marketer’s worst nightmare and don’t buy into technical claims or emotional techniques. So when Specialized claimed that riding their Venge ViAS and other aero equipment would save 5 mintutes over 40 kilometers, first question was, “where is the asterisks?” The numbers might stack up in theory in the wind tunnel, but I want proof that this translates into the real world.

Specialized anticipated this and wanted the small group of journalists who attended their private launch to experience their claims and return home without any doubt.

I was given the opportunity to have some wind tunnel testing performed on me to collect baseline aero-mapping, and then taken out into the real world to see how much quicker the Venge ViAS, Evade Helmet, and skinsuit combination were over a comparison of a “traditional” equipment set-up.

[berserk87]

What?

Maybe those guys would be slow on anything.

Every company makes irritating and inflated claims about saving seconds, watts, etc - all the while leaving you guessing about what their baseline was. The difference with Specialized is that they actually have their own wind tunnel and actually do data-driven development. How do we know? Well, they're fairly open about it, and about their methodology (http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/06/can-the-specialized-venge-vias-really-save-5-minutes-over-40kms/).

Do max gains matter to everybody? No.
Do they matter to some people? Yes.

To the point, yes - these guys would be slow on anything. But slower by minutes for not riding the Specialized stuff? I doubt it.

They buy their own wind tunnel, do their own testing, and purport their own claims. In some cases, as noted, these claimed gains can't be replicated.

The fact that the testing could easily be biased doesn't bother you? Are you saying that because Specialized says the gains are so, that they are true? The fact that Specialized concocts new snake oil each year to save watts and seconds doesn't give you reason to question?

I don't understand what you are saying about max gains. Gains are gains - if they are indeed legitimate, why wouldn't they matter to everyone? The issue is, are the gains claimed legitimate?

[carpediemracing]

Specialized built their own wind tunnel, and they have done a lot of testing in it. However, their testing has sometimes come out with results that have not been able to be replicated else where. Take for example, their test, which showed that shaving your legs saves 15 Watts. John Cobb and Chester Kyle had tested shaved vs. unshaved legs several times in the past, and found it make little no difference. (See this thread (http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/Shaved_Legs_%3D_15_watts_P5119845)on the Slow Twitch forum about the shaved leg test.

Chester Kyle admitted to less than stellar testing protocol. I think they glued hair on a scale leg and then extrapolated the results, something like that. I want to say he said a Barbie doll but I may be off on that.

I have some faith in Specialized's testing. Their drafting tests make sense, and I actually wish they'd do more drafting stuff, like 5 riders in front of the measured rider, not just 1.

Also there's a distinct lack of data on stuff where they may not perform as well. For example they haven't tested their wheels (that I've seen) against others. They sold their best wheel design so far (TriSpoke -> HED) and I'm not convinced on the regular Rovals. I'm sure if their regular width Rovals were faster than whatever-whatever they'd be standing on the rooftops shouting it to the world. The fact that they're not tells me the regular Rovals perform relatively poorly.

I think it's the lack of testing that's most telling, like lack of wheel test data.

The bike is supposed to be worth 2 minutes with the wheels and the bar/stem. A few years ago Bontrager/Trek boasted about the new something bike but a lot of the aero gains came from just the tops of the bars. The bike contributed significantly less to the aero savings. I have to believe that most of the 2 minutes saved comes from the wheels and the bar/stem area. Put that way I can believe the 2 minutes saved on the bike, with most of it coming from the wheels/bar/stem and a little bit from the aero frame tubes and the funky brakes.

On the other hand I also understand the way advertisers might (ahem) influence the writing of a publication.

[54ny77]

I've like to buy a vowel, Alex.

http://33.media.tumblr.com/41a13d96827ef5d7381c90c5ece66e85/tumblr_nc7nmzCSKd1qex5j1o8_500.gif

[ceolwulf]

If I were consistently the second fastest guy I'd buy one. As it is I'll keep training for a bit longer.

[54ny77]

I know a couple guys who will buy it based solely on the marketing alone.

And as they did with the original Venge. One had a full tilt Di2 McLaren Venge, good grief that was some coin when it first came out.

There are plenty of folks with the pesos who just "want the bestest most fastest" and that's what they know. It happens to be carbon from a big bike company. I am 100% certain that of the guys I know who'd buy 'em, they haven't the slightest idea of probably 3/4 of the bikes discussed here on this forum, including Serotta--"that steel bike company from the 80's." :D

Why would Specialized ignore that halo market when there are people willing to buy it? I'm sure they could care less about the naysayers because the likelihood of their buying the bike is as likely as Gisele Bundchen dropping over to their house for lunch.

:p

[Hermes_Alex]

Reading their findings, there is a glaring omission - the time lost due to the depletion of style watts.

[bocobiking]

I'm not into aerodynamics or time-shaving. All I know is, that's one ugly bike.

[carpediemracing]

I think it's going to rain tonight so no Tues Night Worlds. Therefore time for Google.

http://about.mapmyfitness.com/2014/09/the-curious-case-of-the-cyclists-shaved-legs/
It wasn't a barbie doll, it was just a fake lower leg.

As far as testing goes I'm curious what a snug jersey/shorts combo does against a skinsuit. My jerseys can get pretty snug, not much less than a skinsuit, so is it the border to the shorts that makes the difference? Arms are virtually identical (no lumpy elastic on the arm), neck/chest area is snug, ditto torso. The only differences that seem apparent to me are the pockets in the back and the "seam" between the jersey and the shorts.

Personally I like this whatever it is bike's look. I wish I could take advantage of some of that stuff but I'm pretty sure I won't fit it. If nothing else it'll be easier to wipe down, at least cosmetically.

[jwess1234]

I don't care for the looks at all. Much prefer the Felt AR or Cervelo S3.

The comparison chart they are publishing (http://www.roadbikereview.com/reviews/specialized-s-works-venge-vias-launched/attachment/411) is disingenuous. No reference to the frame alone, only with the 60mm wheels, and no reference to the tested speed.

I remember some company (maybe Felt?) offered to bring their aero road bike down to the Specialized wind tunnel for a face off against the original Venge, which was not accepted. Maybe they have a bit more faith in the aero claims they are making money on.

Look forward to seeing who rides this in the peleton and who is opting out (of the bike and paid endorsements) for the Tarmac.

[Shortsocks]

If there is a placebo effect for a given product, can the company claim it as a product benefit?

Alternatively, maybe the saddle excretes that stuff that Floyd was putting on his balls, or shoots a syringe of EPO into your ass as you mount the bike.

LOL. I dont know what it is, But MattTuck makes me laugh out loud more often than anything. I just love reading "EPO into your Ass". Just makes me giggle.

On a side note. I cant stand Specialized bikes, they just piss me off. Irritate me. But They make great helmets and shoes.

[makoti]

Looks like I can get 2 min savings for only $1k, helmet & skinsuit. That'll do. Wait, I need to carry tube, keys, phone... are there aero versions of those? Oh well.

[choke]

I think that we had a discussion when they first announced their wind tunnel about whether the money came from the R&D budget or the Marketing budget... I'm not yet convinced that this isn't a marketing message with a patina of R&D.I'll go with the latter.

Specialized's 'wind tunnel' looks like a normal room with fans at the end while other wind tunnels have a much more complex shape. A couple of years ago Ferrari had to totally redo their wind tunnel since they found "data correlation" problems between what the tunnel said and what happened in the real world.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102996

[54ny77]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU4SDDNXuUA

:banana:

[Chris]

It would be so much cheaper to just dope.

Besides, I train by time so why would I want to be done earlier?

[thirdgenbird]

I wonder if my wife would notice if I shaved a few minutes off my ride time?

I'm becoming a retro grouch, but I would be interested in riding this. I tried their fit tool and was blown away at the reccomendation. I must have screwed something up...

[buddybikes]

But I want to be on my bike longer not shorter

[bicycletricycle]

I'm not into aerodynamics or time-shaving. All I know is, that's one ugly bike.

Amen brother

[Gummee]

All I know is the FN Fast (knockoff of something shaped sorta like a Madone) is faster than the 02 S-Works I have hanging over top of it.

Add aero wheels and its even more noticeable.

I can see a Venge, Transonic, et al being faster than their non-aero counterparts.

M

[bcroslin]

Two quick anecdotes:

First, I owned an aero bike for 4 months and I definitely felt a difference. It was a Giant Propel with 50mm carbon/aluminum wheels and it was fast. It also was brutally uncomfortable so who cares how fast it is when you can't ride it longer than two or three hours without feeling shot.

Second, when the venge was first on the market they were very popular and it seemed like everyone who bought a new bike at the time bought one. 12 months later the used market in my neck of the woods was flooded with them and you never see them on group rides anymore. Lots of propels and S5's but no venges.

[R3awak3n]

That thing probably make me much faster since I want to get done with the ride as fast as I can so I can close that thing back in the garage, thats how ugly that damn bike.

Point is, most of us are not pros so no point ridding that thing.

[Bruce K]

Didn't't read it because I don't care that much but Zion just did a writeup on Specialized claims fir Velonews

BK

[oldpotatoe]

I don't care for the looks at all. Much prefer the Felt AR or Cervelo S3.

The comparison chart they are publishing (http://www.roadbikereview.com/reviews/specialized-s-works-venge-vias-launched/attachment/411) is disingenuous. No reference to the frame alone, only with the 60mm wheels, and no reference to the tested speed.

I remember some company (maybe Felt?) offered to bring their aero road bike down to the Specialized wind tunnel for a face off against the original Venge, which was not accepted. Maybe they have a bit more faith in the aero claims they are making money on.

Look forward to seeing who rides this in the peleton and who is opting out (of the bike and paid endorsements) for the Tarmac.

pelOton..soory pett peive numbre 34.

I'll bet this is a dream to work on(kidding). I've screwed with some of the integrated brakes on some spec-ed, BMC, others..they not only a PITA to set up, but also work like crappola..so there's that. At least it's expensive. :eek:

[waypastfast]

Interesting write up by the folks over at Cyclingnews.com....

http://www.cyclingnews.com/reviews/specialized-s-works-venge-vias-first-ride-review

[firerescuefin]

I don't like Specialized or their way of doing business.

I like the look of the bike and would love to try it out.

I'm clearly in the minority on the later.

[Ozrider]

So you can save 5 minutes
But ONLY 2 minutes is the bike
The other 3 are helmet, skinsuit and shoes.
Put an aerobar and the same wheels on a Tarmac and the difference is even smaller than the 2 min.
The complete bike is AUD 15000 to save 2 minutes
However helmet, skinsuit and shoes would be about AUD 1100 to save 3 minutes



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Scuzzer]

I like the look of the bike and would love to try it out.

I'm clearly in the minority on the later.

It looks modern to me, so I don't hate it either. All modern bikes look the same to me though so maybe I'm just too old.

I'd like to ride it but I would never purchase a Specialized.

[enr1co]

If there is a placebo effect for a given product, can the company claim it as a product benefit?

Alternatively, maybe the saddle excretes that stuff that Floyd was putting on his balls, or shoots a syringe of EPO into your ass as you mount the bike.

Even if it looked cool, "saved time" or excreted the Floyd ball stuff, homey dont do Specialized anything. :p

http://s.quickmeme.com/img/8c/8cd8a476ffb64fa8bf9511d20372e4fbc7d4a566cd2c144811 ecdaa35b43f564.jpg

[FlashUNC]

Forget the aero, the brakes look atrocious.

[zap]

But I want to be on my bike longer not shorter

My limit on a bike is 4 hours……….so if it's easier to get in a 100 miles in that time, why not.

Bike looks cool.

[Bstone]

F**k Specialized

[guido]

I love the BSNYC take on it: (scroll down...)
http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/2015/06/never-mind-bike-locks.html

[rnhood]

F**k Specialized

What's wrong, jealousy get the best of you?

[Cicli]

What's wrong, jealousy get the best of you?

Yeah right. :fight:

Sorry, I am not even remotely impressed by big box company store whatever bikes. Its only a deal if it can outrun Synyards legal department.

[rwsaunders]

Instead of gaining 96 seconds by wearing the skinsuit, I'd probably get 30 days for indecent exposure.

[RonW87]

I love the BSNYC take on it: (scroll down...)
http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/2015/06/never-mind-bike-locks.html

From comments on BSNYC:


Roille Figners said...
"So how much of the difference is the bike and how much is the skinsuit and aero helmet?"

You know, you MORONS would already have the answer to that question, if instead of deliberately building uncertainty and bias into the experiment in defiance of all scientific principle, you had done the ····ING TEST with the SAME CLOTHES BOTH TIMES!

SCIENCE, PLAYA!!! HEARD OF IT!??!?!?!!?

[tuscanyswe]

From comments on BSNYC:


Roille Figners said...
"So how much of the difference is the bike and how much is the skinsuit and aero helmet?"

You know, you MORONS would already have the answer to that question, if instead of deliberately building uncertainty and bias into the experiment in defiance of all scientific principle, you had done the ····ING TEST with the SAME CLOTHES BOTH TIMES!

SCIENCE, PLAYA!!! HEARD OF IT!??!?!?!!?

Thats not how i would have expressed it but its certainly how i feel about it. Theres always a lot of data and yet theres is always something casting a shadow.
Testing done by the manufacturer will never be fully trusted by me in these days.

[berserk87]

F**k Specialized

While I agree with the sentiment, find a better way to express yourself. That's like rude bumper-sticker material. Why even post that?

[velomonkey]

It seems we didn't talk about the Venge enough - both Chris D’Aluisio and Chris Yu from Specialized visited and posted on Weight Weenies and Cycling Tips (new registration and everything).

So let me say this - I don't doubt the bike is a bit faster all things being equal (which they are only in a TT and not in a race), but that bike is ugly as all hell. It's like bike snob said: sure you might go faster, but you still suck: "Sucking at riding bikes is not measured in seconds, or even minutes. It's measured in an overall lack of accomplishment and an overarching narrative of suckitude that runs through your cycling career."

I don't have any order arching bad opinion of specialized, but that bike is ugly as sin and my bike dignity is worth more to me than a few seconds.

[bcroslin]

It seems we didn't talk about the Venge enough - both Chris D’Aluisio and Chris Yu from Specialized visited and posted on Weight Weenies and Cycling Tips (new registration and everything).

So let me say this - I don't doubt the bike is a bit faster all things being equal (which they are only in a TT and not in a race), but that bike is ugly as all hell. It's like bike snob said: sure you might go faster, but you still suck: "Sucking at riding bikes is not measured in seconds, or even minutes. It's measured in an overall lack of accomplishment and an overarching narrative of suckitude that runs through your cycling career."

I don't have any order arching bad opinion of specialized, but that bike is ugly as sin and my bike dignity is worth more to me than a few seconds.

I agree with Snobby's sentiments. Also, just why exactly does one need a $12k bike that is faster than everyone else's? I mean, I get it, I like nice things like everyone else but at some point why spend that kind of money if you're just a fred doing local group rides? There's always going to be someone faster on a CAAD10 equivalent running 105 that is going to blow your doors off. But if you like Specialized's marketing dept that much by all means buy the bike. Maybe you'll get a thank you note from their chief marketing officer.

[false_Aest]

Faster than a Linus but not as cool looking.


Actually, I love seeing new bikes like this.

Just like buying an EVH Wolfgang guitar or a 5150 III will not make me sound like Eddie Van Halen the Specialized will not make me as fast as Cavendish.

But what's awesome about both (or a tennis racket for that matter) is that for 1:44 seconds I AM EVH in my living room, for 5 minutes I am Cavendish on PCH, for 25 seconds I am Ace Frehley on the tennis court.


And, while it might be ugly, at least it doesn't have flames, woodgrain or lightning bolts painted on it.

[professerr]

I don't know why yet, but I actually like the way that thing looks.

Funny, though, the chain seems somehow completely out of place -- like some non-aero relic from the steam age or something.

[bicycletricycle]

I went on a really pleasant 40 mile ride on my porteur with a bicycle group tied to the rack including a handlebar and my rain jacket and pants and I kept thinking about how much time I would save on that specialized , it kept making me laugh.

Probably 20 minutes

:)

[Cicli]

I went on a really pleasant 40 mile ride on my porteur with a bicycle group tied to the rack including a handlebar and my rain jacket and pants and I kept thinking about how much time I would save on that specialized , it kept making me laugh.

Probably 20 minutes

:)

You probably would have arrived yesterday with the Venge.

[oldpotatoe]

It seems we didn't talk about the Venge enough - both Chris D’Aluisio and Chris Yu from Specialized visited and posted on Weight Weenies and Cycling Tips (new registration and everything).

So let me say this - I don't doubt the bike is a bit faster all things being equal (which they are only in a TT and not in a race), but that bike is ugly as all hell. It's like bike snob said: sure you might go faster, but you still suck: "Sucking at riding bikes is not measured in seconds, or even minutes. It's measured in an overall lack of accomplishment and an overarching narrative of suckitude that runs through your cycling career."

I don't have any order arching bad opinion of specialized, but that bike is ugly as sin and my bike dignity is worth more to me than a few seconds.

No lack of ugly bikes these days..marketing run amok.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tech-new-2016-scott-foil-launche

[fuzzalow]

I would never touch anything Spesh. Or any big-box-bike for that matter. But just viewed as a matter of aesthetics, I don't think that Venge is unattractive at all. It is an expression of a incremental step forwards in modern, aero-esque design. Very much in keeping with the kind of design output one could expect from McLaren. Very well done. The stem especially so. Uniquely McLaren.

For example you could not slap a Porsche Design logo on this bike and convince anyone that this was a product of that design studio - the lines would be all wrong and the lineage wouldn't come through in the look. Same case if a Pinanfarina logo were attached - the wrong design elements and feel in the product design would make it out as a fraud, from the standpoint of Pinanfarina.

They had to go with a proprietary aero brake design to not have vestiges of conventional bike componentry upset the line progression in viewing the bike from front to back. It feeds into the whole aero-swoosh feel in viewing the bike panning right to left from the drive side.

As modern design, this bike was very well done. Contrast this design with the crudity in the Time offering a few years back, I forget the model designation. That Time was a coarse exercise in Formula 1 racecar monocoque chassis done as bike.

[Black Dog]

No lack of ugly bikes these days..marketing run amok.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tech-new-2016-scott-foil-launche

Yup, the bike industry is staring to fill up with marketing companies that sell bikes and bike accessories and bike related products.

[Ti Designs]

I would never touch anything Spesh. Or any big-box-bike for that matter.

Of all the attitude that a thread like this brings out, this is the one I understand the least...

My shop sells Specialized, Pinerello, Pegoretti, Moots, Parlee... Lots of high end names from who's bikes you could look down on the common Specialized owner, but why? The Pinerello guys will point out that their bikes are made from the same carbon fiber used in the aerospace industry. Pegoretti guys will bring up some guy names Dario...

I have a 10 year old Serotta. It's a La Corsa, their lowest end titanium custom. Working in the industry as long as I have and riding this bike pisses manufactures off, so they gave me a Tarmac and told me to ride it. I don't really like plastic bikes, so I was pretty sure I was just going to give it back. It's better in every category than my Serotta - climbing, sprinting, comfort, flat speed... Bike snobs can say what they want about their newest, latest, greatest, but they really aren't any better. My Tarmac is an S-works SL4, so just out of curiosity I tried the lowest end Tarmac with an SL4 frame and Tiagra equipment. Don't look at the bike, forget that it says Specialized (in large letters, in 11 places), just ride the bike. What you have there is more performance for less money than you've ever been able to purchase before. It's four generations of race frame technology that goes out the door for less than $2K with shoes and pedals.

[fuzzalow]

Of all the attitude that a thread like this brings out, this is the one I understand the least...

My shop sells Specialized, Pinerello, Pegoretti, Moots, Parlee... Lots of high end names from who's bikes you could look down on the common Specialized owner, but why?

Not much need or insight to understand a statement that reflects my own preference, or aversion as it were, for big-box-bikes. I don't look down on any common Spesh owner. Or look down on any bike owner, neither for brand, average speed, watts/kg, or setup. No need to take, or incite, defensive postures where none is needed or intended.

It is all done in service of the ride.

In fairness and to my own defense, this forum, reflective of its Serotta past, is somewhat less focussed on ownership of typical big-box-bike brands than the usual hoi-polloi web bike forum.

[Tharmor]

Maybe if all these aero bikes weren't so damn fugly. Call me a traditionalist, but no amount of time saved can save you from that amount of ugly.

[beeatnik]

Of all the attitude that a thread like this brings out, this is the one I understand the least...



I have a 10 year old Serotta. It's a La Corsa, their lowest end titanium custom. Working in the industry as long as I have and riding this bike pisses manufactures off, so they gave me a Tarmac and told me to ride it. I don't really like plastic bikes, so I was pretty sure I was just going to give it back. It's better in every category than my Serotta - climbing, sprinting, comfort, flat speed... Bike snobs can say what they want about their newest, latest, greatest, but they really aren't any better. My Tarmac is an S-works SL4, so just out of curiosity I tried the lowest end Tarmac with an SL4 frame and Tiagra equipment. Don't look at the bike, forget that it says Specialized (in large letters, in 11 places), just ride the bike. What you have there is more performance for less money than you've ever been able to purchase before. It's four generations of race frame technology that goes out the door for less than $2K with shoes and pedals.

Gearheads like the old stuffs and the new joints:

Venerating this:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/406/19086897118_dcc610abe0_b.jpg

Should not preclude one from admiring this:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/262/18653883843_f9578f85bf_b.jpg

[choke]

Gearheads like the old stuffs and the new joints:

Venerating this:

Should not preclude one from admiring this:
I guess I fail. The first one is sweet and the second one is meh.

[FlashUNC]

Of all the attitude that a thread like this brings out, this is the one I understand the least...

My shop sells Specialized, Pinerello, Pegoretti, Moots, Parlee... Lots of high end names from who's bikes you could look down on the common Specialized owner, but why? The Pinerello guys will point out that their bikes are made from the same carbon fiber used in the aerospace industry. Pegoretti guys will bring up some guy names Dario...

I have a 10 year old Serotta. It's a La Corsa, their lowest end titanium custom. Working in the industry as long as I have and riding this bike pisses manufactures off, so they gave me a Tarmac and told me to ride it. I don't really like plastic bikes, so I was pretty sure I was just going to give it back. It's better in every category than my Serotta - climbing, sprinting, comfort, flat speed... Bike snobs can say what they want about their newest, latest, greatest, but they really aren't any better. My Tarmac is an S-works SL4, so just out of curiosity I tried the lowest end Tarmac with an SL4 frame and Tiagra equipment. Don't look at the bike, forget that it says Specialized (in large letters, in 11 places), just ride the bike. What you have there is more performance for less money than you've ever been able to purchase before. It's four generations of race frame technology that goes out the door for less than $2K with shoes and pedals.

My first bike was a Specialized. I have a lot of love for the bikes and equipment they make. One of their helmets saved me from a really nasty concussion. I like their shoes.

But I can't take their policies around suing people.

So I don't buy their stuff anymore.

[velomonkey]

But I can't take their policies around suing people.

So I don't buy their stuff anymore.

It's that and the size they want their dealers to be at -not all, but most, they aren't "shops" they are big stores that might as well sell you a dishwasher as soon as a bike.

The marketing is just, well, it's just kind of insulting - maybe more infuriating. I mean I thought the low was Cervelo and their whole aero thing, but this is another level all together.

They got journalists, or supposed journalist, to say "I did the same 20k course and saved 2 minutes" - read it closely and they did one lap with the SL4 at 150 watts and then the 2nd lap with the venge at 300 watts - and then used proprietary software, i.e., midas, to 'normalize' the 2 rides and show you, yup, you did 2 minutes faster. COME ON!!!!! You have no standing by publishing that tripe and what's more, specialized only works with people who are willing to get on their knees and play the game. I get it, I get it, don't hate the player, hate the game - but come on.