Running v Cycling?

[MallyG]

As part of my training (especially during the winter months), I've combined cycling with running, either outside or in a gym. Several people have told me that I should cut out the running and only ride, even if it's on a a stationary bike, as they work different muscles that are NOT complementary. What do you think?

[Tom]

I have had to take a long hiatus from running because of hip issues. My transition to cycling occurred before the hip went to hell.

In my opinion, you have to do one or the other if you don't have time to train each to its fullest if you're interested in performing at peak in either. If you can't commit to both, commit to one.

I do know, and I'm not positive why this is, that I could climb like a scared cat when I was running. It may be that I had better cardiovascular fitness because over the years I had trained to run at a higher stress than I have been able to develop on the bike. I've only ridden a lot for two years now, and this is the first year I have ridden a trainer through the winter instead of running, and I still don't think I've gotten strong enough to really maintain a high effort. The same hills I could just dance up over now are noticeably difficult. It may be mental, who knows, but my attitude was that I could just stand and run over anything - it was just like picking up the pace in a run.

That's this year's projects. Get the hip to shut the hell up so I can run on off days or lunch hours, and ride the hills west of town most mornings instead of going around the river to the east. I want to get strong enough to stand and fly.

[larryp2]

Run, everyone should have some weight bearing exercise and cycling is not.....

[victoryfactory]

Running is a great addition to cycling if you can do it. I think ideally, we need some kind of cross training in the form of swimming, hiking, yoga, running etc to be as balanced as possible. Just doing one sport can put the body out of balance due to over use of some muscles and under use of others, Leading to possible injury.

VF, do as I say, not as I do

[Andreu]

What do you want to achieve...better running, cycling or both.
Keep running if you want to do duathlons or you run and enjoy it. But you have to pedal to become a better cyclist.
A

[jeffg]

Originally posted by MallyG
As part of my training (especially during the winter months), I've combined cycling with running, either outside or in a gym. Several people have told me that I should cut out the running and only ride, even if it's on a a stationary bike, as they work different muscles that are NOT complementary. What do you think?

Recall that running is much more efficient from a cardiovascular point of view than cycling, in addition to its weight bearing benefits. It is ideal for building base fitness during the winter, getting in a workout when you are traveling and don't have your bike, etc. You have to ride a lot to get the same cardio benefit as a few hours of running.

Like Tom, I did noticed that I did climb better when running early in my cycling days. That being said, the only thing that saved me for really hilly/mountainous centuries, DCs, cyclosportives, etc. was climbing a lot on the bike and what the Germans call "Sitzfleisch," i.e. riding enough that you can stay in the saddle for 7+ hours without feeling like you are being flayed from the waist down. As you get closer to L'Etappe, I would transition to all on the bike workouts.

[my2cents]

anyone that tells you not to run and to only ride is nuts, even if your only interest is to improve your riding performance. lance armstrong uses running as part of his off-season cross-training regime and i'm pretty sure he does it to improve his overall cycling (as opposed to worrying about competing in duathlons!). I have yet to see how this has harmed his on-bike performance.

If you like to run, then run, regardless of the reasons (travel workout, break from riding, balanced body conditioning, weight-bearing exercise, etc.).

[BumbleBeeDave]

<<< Recall that running is much more efficient from a cardiovascular point of view than cycling, in addition to its weight bearing benefits.>>>

This is very true, but I would STRONGLY advise anyone contemplating extensive running to take into account any past knee or leg related injuries AND any family history of arthritis before starting.

I blew out my patella tendon in a school track meet when I was 13. I ran from '85 till mid '90. I was in the best cardio shape of my life--it's a much more intense workout than riding. But my knees hurt ALL the time, no matter what surface I ran on. Given my previous injury and my family incidence of arthritis, it was obvious to me that this ain't gonna work for the next 30 years. So I gave up the running for cycling full time and have never looked back.

Cycling gets the cardio and the enjoyment at cruising and I do weights in the gym for the weight bearing--no prolonged pounding like in running--and spin classes in the winter--which tends to be a harder workout than outdoor cycling because there is no freewheel and you can devote all your attention to the effort--no traffic of potholes to worry about.

If you have the medical history for it then go run your ass off, but if you have pre-existing injuries or family arthritis history to consider, then beware! You could be in great shape now, but be really messing yourself up 30 years down the road.

BBDave

[Climb01742]

i do both. my goal is to be as fit as i can be. a better pair of heart and lungs has to improve my cycling. balancing out my muscles groups has to be better for my total fitness. switching from the cycling motion to the running motion lessens the chance of repetitive use/motion injuries. doing both also keeps me mentally fresher. running can be done in a shorter amount of time. and running can be done anywhere while travelling. since few if any of us are training to be world class cyclists, being as fit as possible seems like a worthwhile goal, and running fits nicely into that goal, at least for me.

[Dr. Doofus]

The Dualistic (but not a Dualist) Doc Says:

He likes to ride.

I like to run.

The idea of "cross-training" is a myth -- neuro-muscular pathways, and mitichondrial development, and both *very* specific to the motor units and muscle fibers used in specific ranges of motion...in other words, if one wants to cycle, one should not train for that by running, and vice versa. There is, however, a general adaptation benefit to any form of training, that will provide a slight to moderate carryover to a similar activity -- in other words, you can't train for cycle races by running, but a runner will be much better off when s/he first sits upon a bike than a swimmer or a hammer thrower, simply because a general lower-body endurance base has been established....

The doc protested, but I began running when I made us both quit racing. Its fun. It provides us, at 37, with a certain amount of dirty old mannishness by running around the lake where many college girls sunbathe. It also gives us a conditioning base to be something of a defensive demon in the annual student-faculty basketball game, and to be punitively panther-like during those sprints deep in the woods to apprehend less-than-motivated students...in short, we like it.

Mally, if you're not a racer, you don't need to train like one. Run if you wish, bearing in mind the caveats voiced in previous posts.

[BigDaddySmooth]

I've cross-trained for years...rowing and weights plus my avid love for cycling. The USAF now requires a 1.5 mile run to determine fitness (it used to use cycle ergometry), so now I've added running to my regimen. It has taken about 6 months to get the kinks out, i.e. biomechanical conditioning, stiffness, pain, etc. and I've established a fair base. Running is very efficient but it does take a toll on the muscle mass. I've loss 3# (151 to 148) while eating like a small colt. It seems to complement my cycling and at this point in the year I do 1 day of running and 1 day of cycling intervals per week. The rest of my activity is recovery or base training (HR 140 or less). I'm a firm believer in balacing the body. Pro cyclists and very dedicated non-pros are pathetically imbalanced...no upper body strength whatsoever.

What I have learned is this...I'm a much better cyclist than I am a runner (of course its 17 yrs of cycling vs 6 mos of running). Supposedly, Tony Rominger hired a trainer to get him ready to run a marathon (after he retired from cycling). His goal...to finish in 3 hours. That time would probably put him in the middle of the pack. This from a grand tour winner. Interesting.

[Dr. Doofus]

Big Daddy:

Biomechanics are everything.

Lance openly admits he'd be a horrible Duathlete -- and looking at his muscular build and long femurs, the Doc and I find that entirely understandable. A strong VO2 or LT does not make for an all-sport endurance monster....

Runners: long tibia, short torso, short femur, short humerus (long legs but short tibias mean long stride length without a lot of work from the glutes, hip flexors, quads, and hamstrings...short humerus/long ulnus means a counterbalance arm swing that is equally compact...short torso means less "dead weight" to carry...look at the Kenyans for this build).

Cyclists: considerable variation (tall short thick thin broad slender), because unlike other endurance/speed sports (except for rowing, and perhaps Nordic Skiing), the body is the engine to drive a tool, not the engine and the tool at once...however, long femurs do give a biomechanical advantage, althouhg the degree of such is unclear, and *perhaps* simply anecdotal...the mechanical advantages for running listed above are quite real, though....

[Redturbo]

Can anyone help me out with why after about 20 to 30 minutes into a run my feet start to go numb. Ive tried sizing up shoes, different lacing, different shoes, still can't figure it out.
For what its worth I'm,
41
5'6"
140-45lbs
cycled 8000 mile last year

I used to run alot in my twenties, When I was in the USAF my fastest time in that 1.5 mile was 7:28.

any help please
turbo

[Needs Help]

As part of my training (especially during the winter months), I've combined cycling with running, either outside or in a gym. Several people have told me that I should cut out the running and only ride

I think it was Bicycling magazine that had a recent article about the adverse affects cylcing has on bone mass. High impact sports promote good bones, so you should consider that too.

[Climb01742]

redturbo--have you tried orthodicts(sp?)? a good sports medicine podiatrist might have an idea. sometimes its how your foot moves inside of a shoe that matters, not just the size or shape of the shoe. is it both feet or just one? and is it a place on your feet or the whole foot? lacing could also be a culprit but you tried that.

[Russ]

Mally,

It has been proven that running decreases your power output on the bike, since you are using a totally different set of muscles when you run. IMO, however, this does not mean that running is/will be entirely detrimental to your cycling, especially later in the year when you are cycling full time.

Running will give you an excellent cardiovascular base, but you will be a bit "weak" (sprinting, climbing, etc.) when you get back on the bike if all you have done is run for a few months (in the Winter). But most likely, you will not be doing those things when you start riding in the Spring, right?

Another issue is the stage we are in our lives and the purpose we ride (and run).... I am assuming that you are not training for the TDF? Therefore, you should not be too concerned with loss of power output.

I was one of those that made the transition from high level running into cycling (years ago) and I actually "surprised" many of my cycling friends.... I was able to keep up with them longer that they thought, although my arse was killing me!

Today, even though I live in a place where I can ride almost every day, I actually "force" myself not to ride daily. I divide my training schedule between running (outside and on a treadmill), weight lifting/stretching/pilates, etc. and cycling (on the road and in the gym -- studio cycling). I ease on the weights and the other non-cycling activities, except running, by the end of March.

One word of caution... you can get injured much more easily while running, so don't be cheap when it comes to getting good training shoes! I recommend you also look into custom insoles or the "SuperFeet" type insoles. The insoles that come with running shoes are worthless...

I am now 43 and I think I am a pretty strong rider for my age and for the time I train, so I would take the liberty to say that my training regime has paid off.

[Climb01742]

and mally, if you can, run on a soft surface. london has many parks. if you can run on grass or a dirt trail, and not on pavement, all the better. just be careful running on grass--watch out for holes, rocks or ruts, which could cause you to twist your ankle. given our daily schedules in advertising, sneaking in a run is alot easier than sneaking in a ride.

[Redturbo]

Climb,
Its seems to be the balls of both my feet and forward. It also can differ in how numb they get from run to run and which foot. Haven't talk to a doc about it, I've just been running through it. It also tends to get a little better 50 to 60 minutes into a run.

thanks turbo

[Climb01742]

red, do you land on your heels or your forefoot? is your second toe longer than your big toe? this is called morton's toe and can cause problems. sounds like a sports podiatrist might be a worthwhile visit.

[BigDaddySmooth]

7:28 for the 1.5 mile...that is pretty darn good. According to the VO2 max calculator, you are about a 66, about 8 better than me. Were you an "experienced runner"? What kind of a cyclist are you?

PS I hope to break 10 minutes...as I said, I'm not a good runner.

[Ken Lehner]

Originally posted by Dr. Doofus
Big Daddy:

Biomechanics are everything.

Lance openly admits he'd be a horrible Duathlete -- and looking at his muscular build and long femurs, the Doc and I find that entirely understandable. A strong VO2 or LT does not make for an all-sport endurance monster....

As one who started out as a triathlete, and in his teens could beat the best in the country, Lance is blowing smoke. He'd be an excellent duathlete.

[Redturbo]

Climb
No I don't have the toe thing and I tend to stike heel to midfoot.
I just started running again last year after some years on and off, mostly off.

BDS,

That was back around 1985 I was training full time on Uncle Sam, It was when the military was getting serious about the Anti-Terrism and Hostage Recue stuff. I was stationed at Hickam and the base Commander started a full time EST (emergency service team) or swat team. All we did was run, gym and assult airplanes and buildings. As Russ says, I'm a pretty strong rider for my age. Good luck on the sub 10.

turbo

[Climb01742]

sorry, red, i'm out of half-baked ideas. i've run for 35 years, had every injury known but your situation stumps me. but i do bet some sort of footbed would help. there may be something going on with your metatarsals, but that's just a layman's guess. good luck figuring it out.

[sam.g]

Mally,

How old are you? Having been a runner for almost 25 years and now entering my 3rd year of cycling, my experience is that injuries from running tend to be to the determining factor. Even if you take care of the obvious issues such as proper fitting and new running shoes, stretching and running surfaces, the odds of getting injured while running increase as we age.

At 54 now, I'm starting the transition from runner to cyclist. Although currently training for a May marathon, I basically run to finish rather than worry about age group rankings, it's just too punishing. My motivation is to train with my daughter and help her crack 4 hours.

After cycling all summer while running only about 10-15 miles per week, I entered a local 5K in October finishing in 22:09 but receiving a stress fracture as reward. This ruined my fall cycling and I missed the Hilly Hundred in Bloomington. Running does provide a more intense cardio work out in a shorter time and I can run anywhere I'm traveling, but I just feel that I'm wearing out faster and more prone to injury.

My advice, do as I say not as I do.

Sam

[Needs Help]

This ruined my fall cycling and I missed the Hilly Hundred in Bloomington.

One of the most beautiful rides I've done. Late fall leaves and beautiful misty mornings across the lakes.

[Dr. Doofus]

Ken --

Bear in mind that for Lance, "horrible" (his words) must mean being beaten by a dozen or so in the nation, and by maybe 30 in the world, as opposed to being the best on the planet, which must be his current standard for "good."

Rather a different perspective than the rest of us....

[Russ]

Originally posted by Redturbo
....Haven't talk to a doc about it, I've just been running through it.

Hey Turbo,

Looks like you should look into custom insoles, man! Talk to Russ Bollig of Podium Footware in Boulder, CO. He can be reached at 303-554-0505

You will not regret it!

[Russ]

Originally posted by sam.g
....the odds of getting injured while running increase as we age.

Hey Sam,

I am not trying to prove you wrong.... but my father is in his mid 60's and he rarely gets injured from running. I also thought that runner's actually improve with age????

May be staying (athletically) healthy is also tied with our genetics? :confused: