OT: New car advice sought

[kgreene10]

I'm sure there are a number of forumites who take their cars (nearly) as seriously as their bikes.

I need a new (or new-to-me) car and I'm frittering away time doing research that I really should dedicate to other things. I figured I might be able to take a short-cut with some advice here.

I'm going to describe my needs and some cars I've identified as possibles. Please tell me what you think.

My driving habits: Typically very, very limited miles -- 8 miles daily to and from work plus around-town (Austin) errands. Longer drives to races, but half the time someone else drives. I might put no more than 3-4k on a car each year.

Hauling: I want to get one 60cm road bike in the back with the rear wheel on. Bonus if I can leave the kid seat placed in the backseat while also fitting the bike in.

Towing: I want to add a trailer-hitch bike rack.

Possible makes/models:
- Mazda 3 hatchback
- VW Sportwagen
- Prius

Ruled out:
- SUV
- Van
- Honda Fit (sorry, too ugly)

I would be happy to buy used. If you really know details and can recommend particular model years of anything, I'm all ears.

Thanks forum!

[steelbikerider]

I've had 3 VW's and the AC's did not hold up well in the TX 4 season AC weather.
A 60 cm bike would fit in in the back of a Mazda 3 but not with the front wheel on. The back seat would be down all the way across.
A Subaru Forester or Outback would work but gas mileage isn't great. My 58 cm bike fits in the back with both wheels on and the seats folded down of my 06 Forester. Newer ones have more room. Seen lots of Outbacks with trailer hitches.
A friend has a Toyota Tacoma half cab that will fit a bike inside or outside as needed.

[thirdgenbird]

Here was my lists.

driving habits:
Short trips around town
Occasional long trips

Wants:
Good build quality
Good handling
Quiet
Room for a 60cm road bike inside (poor weather)
Room behind the rear seat for a greyhound
Factory roof rails so I can install a good looking and quiet roof rack
Not huge


I ended up with a gas sportwagen. I love the car. Not a single complaint. The only way it would be better is with a manual transmission but these are very hard to find on gas sportwagens. Nothing wrong with the auto, I just like rowing my own gears.

[Cat3roadracer]

Jetta Sportwagen TDI. The official car of The Paceline Forum.

[eddief]

Don't own one, but for 2015 I have read nothing but raves.

Also while technically SUVs, the new Honda HRV and coming Mazda CX3 would be a fine way to go. Be great if they'd put some turbonium in them.

[thirdgenbird]

Jetta Sportwagen TDI. The official car of The Paceline Forum.

The tdi would be a poor choice with his driving habits. He doesn't drive long enough to keep the DPF clear or put the car into a regen cycle.

[texbike]

I'm sure there are a number of forumites who take their cars (nearly) as seriously as their bikes.

I need a new (or new-to-me) car and I'm frittering away time doing research that I really should dedicate to other things. I figured I might be able to take a short-cut with some advice here.

I'm going to describe my needs and some cars I've identified as possibles. Please tell me what you think.

My driving habits: Typically very, very limited miles -- 8 miles daily to and from work plus around-town (Austin) errands. Longer drives to races, but half the time someone else drives. I might put no more than 3-4k on a car each year.

Hauling: I want to get one 60cm road bike in the back with the rear wheel on. Bonus if I can leave the kid seat placed in the backseat while also fitting the bike in.

Towing: I want to add a trailer-hitch bike rack.

Possible makes/models:
- Mazda 3 hatchback
- VW Sportwagen
- Prius

Ruled out:
- SUV
- Van
- Honda Fit (sorry, too ugly)

I would be happy to buy used. If you really know details and can recommend particular model years of anything, I'm all ears.

Thanks forum!

Are you back in Austin??? If so, welcome home!

Do you have a specific budget in mind for this endeavor?

I drove a 2015 GTI 4 door last week and came away VERY impressed. Fast, solid, quiet, and great build quality. Probably the nicest car that VW has put out in awhile. It would be difficult to fit a kid AND a 60 cm bike with the rear wheel on at the same time. However, you can easily fit a hitch for a hitch rack.

Texbike

[Saint Vitus]

Hauling: I want to get one 60cm road bike in the back with the rear wheel on. Bonus if I can leave the kid seat placed in the backseat while also fitting the bike in.

Towing: I want to add a trailer-hitch bike rack.

Possible makes/models:
- Mazda 3 hatchback
- VW Sportwagen
- Prius


Mazda CX-5. Yeah you said you ruled out SUV, but technically it's a crossover. Does all that you ask (tows up to 2k lbs) and gets 26/35. Looks good, roomy and handles nicely.

[Ken Robb]

We bought a 2014 Mazda 3 sedan a year ago. It has been perfect, fun to drive, gets about 30mpg on regular gas in mixed urban driving.

I also like driving VWs but like all German cars they seem to have a few more problems than I would like. A good friend runs a driving school and he has a couple of VW TDi Jettas with dual clutch automatics. The transmissions in each of them have died at 80,000-103,000 miles. One was replaced under warranty at 80,000 miles and it died again after another 83,000 miles. The first one was replaced under warranty but the second one was on him. The automatic transmission that comes with the standard turbo-gasoline engine seems to hold up much better as do the stick shifts.

[CheshireCat]

I sold my wrx sti 2008 hatchback for a VW Sportwagen TDI.

I'm much happier commuting in the new car.
I'm kind of obsessed with it. Great gas mileage, despite not being high HP, the massive amount of torque makes it extremely fun to drive, and I've got over 30k miles on it so far and it's been nothing but smiles.
I have the 6spd DSG automanual. I leave it in automode. I do lots of long distance driving, I've slept in it before quite a few times and the rear seats fold flat.

I was willing to give VW another chance after a bad experience on a 99 Beetle that fell apart. It's miles ahead of that tin can, and much better than my subaru was.

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xpa1/t51.2885-15/e15/10945259_403918893115779_1939920845_n.jpg

it does just about anything well enough, including running support for the gravel grinder series here.
(no thats not a huge dent, its just a weird reflection)

[kgreene10]

The tdi would be a poor choice with his driving habits. He doesn't drive long enough to keep the DPF clear or put the car into a regen cycle.

This sounds like something I should pay attention to, but I have no clue what it means. You seem to be saying that if I get a diesel and don't drive it much, the engine will get fouled. The TDI Sportwagen was on my list. Is it definitive that it should be off?

[kgreene10]

Are you back in Austin??? If so, welcome home!

Do you have a specific budget in mind for this endeavor?

I drove a 2015 GTI 4 door last week and came away VERY impressed. Fast, solid, quiet, and great build quality. Probably the nicest car that VW has put out in awhile. It would be difficult to fit a kid AND a 60 cm bike with the rear wheel on at the same time. However, you can easily fit a hitch for a hitch rack.

Texbike

Hey! Back from our year in Madrid at the end of the month. I will miss being surrounded by mountains and the urban lifestyle, but it will be nice to get home to our house, friends, and some serious summer crit racing.

I'll see you on our usual weekday route within a couple of weeks.

Thanks for the recommendation. I have an appointment with a VW dealer to try out the wagen. I'll try the Golf too. Do you like one of the dealerships in town more than another?

[yngpunk]

The tdi would be a poor choice with his driving habits. He doesn't drive long enough to keep the DPF clear or put the car into a regen cycle.

This is Texas, he don't need no stinkin DPF...take off the DPF and run a straight pipe and get a Malone Stage 2 tune

[Louis]

I recently bought a Subaru Impreza hatchback and it's been a good car. Not as peppy as my Acura Integra, but gets very good gas mileage (36 mpg / tank summer, 33 mpg winter) considering that it's bigger, heavier and AWD. The handling is also very good. They no longer offer the WRX, so you can't get a racy version, but I get the feeling that isn't terribly important to you.

It's worth taking one out for a test drive.

http://www.autoguide.com/gallery/d/494540-2/2012-Subaru-Imprezza-Hatchback-Beauty.jpg

[Tony T]

Jeep.

[Cat3roadracer]

The tdi would be a poor choice with his driving habits. He doesn't drive long enough to keep the DPF clear or put the car into a regen cycle.

You are correct here. Gasser might be a better choice.

[shovelhd]

This sounds like something I should pay attention to, but I have no clue what it means. You seem to be saying that if I get a diesel and don't drive it much, the engine will get fouled. The TDI Sportwagen was on my list. Is it definitive that it should be off?

It's not just the emission controls, it's that you will spend your entire commute warming up the motor and diesels are not economical while warming up. They run best when hot. At 3K-4K per year, you will never see the cost savings that the platform provides no matter how long you keep it. Finally, a 60cm bike could be a tight squeeze depending on how much seatpost is showing, and you won't get the split seat up, even the small side. Bad choice.

[sg8357]

I have a '14 Mazda 3 5 door, a 60cm will fit front wheel off, you can still
fold down the 40% size seat. Trailer hitch is 1.25, so a Kuat Sherpa, for 2 bikes is your rack.
For '15 both size engines are available with the 6 speed manual.
Skip the evil compuradio, in reviews the radio would crash, meaning no radio or nav.
The stock radio has a very functional bluetooth phone link,
works great.

[gavingould]

It's not just the emission controls, it's that you will spend your entire commute warming up the motor and diesels are not economical while warming up. They run best when hot. At 3K-4K per year, you will never see the cost savings that the platform provides no matter how long you keep it. Finally, a 60cm bike could be a tight squeeze depending on how much seatpost is showing, and you won't get the split seat up, even the small side. Bad choice.
i agree with this guy. i can toss my tall-seatmast-equipped Gaulzetti in the Sportwagen with both wheels on, but the back seats gotta go down. i don't think the geometry would clear by taking the front wheel off.
get a well-cared-for, used, '09 or later gas model, add hitch rack, you're set.
the TDI is great if you drive long distance a lot, but for short around town jaunts there's no point other than the torque.

[buddybikes]

3 to 4 k year - diesel waste of extra money. Just get something used to get point a to b in wagon form. Totally depends upon your budget 20, 25, 30, 40 50K? Need to impress the girls? Is car being stored in safe place? Do you hang it out in the city where it could be dinged repeately? Where are your priorities of reliability, performance, price, wow factor....

Personally we have a 2007 prius that has virtually never been in the shop, of course pick up sucks but reliability is insane. Also 2008 Saab wagon, 5 speed manual that we can haul 4 bikes plus multiple kayaks on vacation. Yes quarky and need a good indie mechanic. Seats insanely comfortable for my bad back.

[thirdgenbird]

This sounds like something I should pay attention to, but I have no clue what it means. You seem to be saying that if I get a diesel and don't drive it much, the engine will get fouled. The TDI Sportwagen was on my list. Is it definitive that it should be off?

Yes

Modern Diesel engines have a DPF or diesel particulate filter. These filters require getting hot to burn off or they will plug up. It's not an issue for a car/truck/equipment that gets proper load cycles. If the engine doesn't see enough load and the computer senses blockage, the engine will go into active regen to burn out the filter. The problem for you, VW only kicks the regen cycle in if you drive something like 30 miles at 45mph or more, I can't recall the exact numbers. Whatever they are, your driving habits will not be enough to trigger a regen. Replacing a plugged DPF can cost thousands of dollars. I've heard that VW literature in Europe warns people to consider their driving habits when ordering because of this.

Besides the concern above, you likely won't see any cost benefit to diesel. Don't let it distract you from the VW though. I love my 5cyl sportwagen. It doesn't get the best milage or have gobs of power, but it is adequate, dependable and cheap. the new 1.8t that replaces it gets better milage and rave reviews.

This is Texas, he don't need no stinkin DPF...take off the DPF and run a straight pipe and get a Malone Stage 2 tune

That is an option. Given the extra cost however, it doesn't seem worth it. We don't have vehicle inspectionin Iowa. None. All you need to license and register a car is a title. The car doesn't even have to exist.


If you want pictures of a 59cm colnago with lots of post in the back of a mk5/6 sportwagen, let me know.

[jimoots]

We have a Mazda 3 (2013) that we bought new and really like it.

It has plenty of up and go - to the point where we've taken it on long distance trips fully laden with no issues.

We also live in the hills - lots of twisties - and it handles them really well. It's not sports car handling but you are never left wanting nor do you feel like you're pushing the car to its limits at legal speeds.

Build quality is excellent for the price and standard features are impressive at the base model (at least here in Australia).

No regrets and we'd buy one again tomorrow.

[Seramount]

no idea if it would work for the OP, but gonna brag on my ride anyway...

2006 Acura RSX Type-S (unfortunately, last year for this model, so finding a low-mileage one might be hard)

decent mileage (22/32), 6-spd manual, nice handling, hauls fairly serious ass (8200 rpm redline), and the hatchback/seat down accommodates any size bike with the front wheel off.

cons: uses premium gas and wish it had better brakes...but I rarely use them, so not that big of a deal. ;)

[palincss]

My driving habits: Typically very, very limited miles -- 8 miles daily to and from work plus around-town (Austin) errands. Longer drives to races, but half the time someone else drives. I might put no more than 3-4k on a car each year.


Well, that driving pattern rules out a diesel.


Hauling: I want to get one 60cm road bike in the back with the rear wheel on. Bonus if I can leave the kid seat placed in the backseat while also fitting the bike in.


I can tell you positively for certain you will be able to get a 60 cm road bike into a VW Sportwagen (Jetta wagon or this year's Golf wagon) and a Prius V (have done it with my bikes). I've seen folks put road bikes both wheels on in the back of a Prius sedan, but can't verify that a 60cm will fit.

I've not tried it but I'm 99% sure a bike both wheels on won't fit in the back of a Mazda 3. If you're happy with back wheel only on, then maybe -- but in that case, the Golf hatchback would work also.

[palincss]

Jetta Sportwagen TDI. The official car of The Paceline Forum.

And mine as well. But his driving pattern doesn't suit the TDI at all: no trips long enough to effect a regen of the particulate filter.

[palincss]

This sounds like something I should pay attention to, but I have no clue what it means. You seem to be saying that if I get a diesel and don't drive it much, the engine will get fouled. The TDI Sportwagen was on my list. Is it definitive that it should be off?

Particulates -- soot in the exhaust, basically -- get trapped in the particulate filter. Periodically they're burned off in a process called "regeneration" (a bit like Dr Who) and turned to ash. In order for that to happen, the car needs to be run at something like 50 mph for over a half hour.

Now that happens to suit my driving pattern (from home to ride starts and back, typically 35 min to 1 hr each way) perfectly; and "keeping up with traffic" (left lane traffic, generally averaging 50 mph, and you know how you have to drive to accomplish that) I'm getting over 40 mpg. What's more, diesel in Southern Maryland, where most of my ride starts are located, is priced between 87 and 89 unleaded -- as opposed to 20 or 30 cents a gallon more than 93, as it is in Alexandria VA, where I live.

But the driving pattern the OP specified, all short trips and very low total annual mileage, wouldn't work at all.

The obvious choice is the new Golf SportWagen TSI.

[likebikes]

for such a short commute and such limited driving use, i'd look into a used car, or even something like a chevy volt or nissan leaf, would never have to buy gas.

[awdwon]

I'd most likely recommend the sportwagen as well or an older Subaru Outback or legacy wagon. My wife and I just bought a passat wagon which they stopped making in 2010, for some reason they call them different things up here in Canada. Factory rails, trailer hitch and good cargo space. I also own a BMW X3 and the VW seems to have more cargo space. The older Subaru stuff is great as well (pre 2010), reliable as hell and fun to drive but you lose a bit of fuel efficiency with the AWD. I've known a few co-workers with newer subarus (2011 and 2013) and both had really bad engine problems. Not sure what has changed but I owned an 08 legacy gt wagon (such an amazing car) and an 04 legacy wagon and never had any issues with them.

[palincss]

It's not just the emission controls, it's that you will spend your entire commute warming up the motor and diesels are not economical while warming up. They run best when hot. At 3K-4K per year, you will never see the cost savings that the platform provides no matter how long you keep it. Finally, a 60cm bike could be a tight squeeze depending on how much seatpost is showing, and you won't get the split seat up, even the small side. Bad choice.

I have absolutely no trouble getting my 60 cm road bikes, including full fendered Randonneurs, to fit in my JSW. Of course, I have the back seat folded down. The bike lies on its side, and there's plenty of room for the saddle and seatpost.

Of course, you'd have a good deal more room in a Merc E350 wagon, but you could buy two Golf SportWagens for the price of an E350.

[jimoots]

I'd most likely recommend the sportwagen as well or an older Subaru Outback or legacy wagon. My wife and I just bought a passat wagon which they stopped making in 2010, for some reason they call them different things up here in Canada. Factory rails, trailer hitch and good cargo space. I also own a BMW X3 and the VW seems to have more cargo space. The older Subaru stuff is great as well (pre 2010), reliable as hell and fun to drive but you lose a bit of fuel efficiency with the AWD. I've known a few co-workers with newer subarus (2011 and 2013) and both had really bad engine problems. Not sure what has changed but I owned an 08 legacy gt wagon (such an amazing car) and an 04 legacy wagon and never had any issues with them.

By design, the Subaru boxer motor tends to be susceptible to head gasket issues.

There are various models over the years that are known for HG trouble, but that's not to say the 'good' ones don't have issues too.

Personally, all the non-turbo Subaru's I've driven have been less than inspiring and noticeably sluggish when compared against non-turbo offerings from other manufacturers. Build quality is excellent though.

Just my 2c. Mentioned I have a Mazda above but my other car is an Outback with STi drivetrain/suspension, and in general I'm a bit of a fan of Suby stuff.

[carpediemracing]

Hauling: I want to get one 60cm road bike in the back with the rear wheel on. Bonus if I can leave the kid seat placed in the backseat while also fitting the bike in.

Towing: I want to add a trailer-hitch bike rack.

Possible makes/models:
- Mazda 3 hatchback
- VW Sportwagen
- Prius

We have the slightly older Jetta Sportswagen.

If you have a young'un like we do (3 years old now), the safest place to put the seat is in the middle. That rules out any chance of putting a normal 60 cm bike in the car with any wheel attached.

I have to remove both wheels on my long-wheelbase-but-short-height bike (about 102 cm wheelbase, equal to about a 50 cm seat tube frame) to get it in the back with the child seat in place. It's not totally comfortable sitting sideways upright, both ends of the bike hit the sides of the car. New Golf wagon, I don't know how much wider it is, not sure if that will ease things a bit, but your frame is much taller than mine.

If you can give up the idea of putting a one-wheel-mounted bike in while having the child seat in place, then the VW wagon should work fine.

We have Diono seats (good for 5 lbs - 89 lbs or something like that) and although it's pretty easy to remove the seat, it's much more involved than removing the rear wheel from a bike.

[bikinchris]

Since all of the cars you are looking into require a seatback fold down, you might want to drive one of these before deciding:

http://www.ford.com/cars/focus/?fmccmp=lp-cars-billboard

Or if you want something more sporty:

http://www.ford.com/cars/focus/features/?fmccmp=lp-cars-fut-hp-#page=Feature31

This is what Ken Block thinks of it:
https://youtu.be/YOpb1404Xbc

[christian]

You drive 4000 miles a year, so mileage isn't really a concern. Get over the "Don't want a minivan" and the world is your oyster. I can roll a 60cm bike into my Odyssey without taking any wheels off.

At least once every weekend, it's got me, the, wife, the two kids, a 50cm Trek, a little Trek Superfly 20, and a size M/S Cannondale tandem loaded in it. All with wheels on.

I bought the minivan because we had kids. As it turns out, you don't need one for two kids. But now we'd never sell it, because for the bikes, it's just unbelievably practical. Everything just rolls right in.

[jh_on_the_cape]

have you rallyed it?

You drive 4000 miles a year, so mileage isn't really a concern. Get over the "Don't want a minivan" and the world is your oyster. I can roll a 60cm bike into my Odyssey without taking any wheels off.

At least once every weekend, it's got me, the, wife, the two kids, a 50cm Trek, a little Trek Superfly 20, and a size M/S Cannondale tandem loaded in it. All with wheels on.

I bought the minivan because we had kids. As it turns out, you don't need one for two kids. But now we'd never sell it, because for the bikes, it's just unbelievably practical. Everything just rolls right in.

[christian]

No, I only rally cars I don't own. #fiscallyresponsiblecarrcing

[oldpotatoe]

Yes


Besides the concern above, you likely won't see any cost benefit to diesel. Don't let it distract you from the VW though.

If you want pictures of a 59cm colnago with lots of post in the back of a mk5/6 sportwagen, let me know.

I know prices of fuel vary a BUNCH but right now Diesel here is the same $ as gas..and I get 40 MPH, mixed city/highway driving. SO..YMMV...2013 SW TDI..love this car.

[thirdgenbird]

I know prices of fuel vary a BUNCH but right now Diesel here is the same $ as gas..and I get 40 MPH, mixed city/highway driving. SO..YMMV...2013 SW TDI..love this car.

He only drives 3-4k a year. Outside of the serious DPF concerns, he is only looking at saving a few hundred dollars a year on fuel. Not nearly enough to offset the purchase price amd increased maintenance costs.

I think the tdi is a great car, better than may gasser, but it would be totally the wrong powertain for the OP.

[Schmed]

... We don't have vehicle inspectionin Iowa. None. All you need to license and register a car is a title. The car doesn't even have to exist.

For some reason, this cracks me up.

But yes, diesel is OUT for short trips. I just did my own (huge hassle) EGR cooler cleaning and CCV filter change on my diesel truck, and this added emissions is making diesel ownership a big 'ol hassle. I'll save my emissions rant for somewhere else.

>The Honda Element used to be a neat and perfect "car" for your needs. But, it's goofy looking, IMHO.
>Jetta SportWagen looks like the obvious choice. If you don't consider yourself a car enthusiast, you might turn into one once you start driving a german car!
>A BMW X1 would be something to look at, but not sure of your budget. Audi Allroad? Obviously, these are $$....
>Honda HRV? Too SUV-like?
>Prius V-Wagon?

[Kobe]

You probably don't drive enough miles for the gas mileage to be a factor but the Ford C-Max has an incredibly high roof line. I would think you would be able to stand a 60cm bike up with the front wheel off.

The Mazda5 is almost not a minivan as it is based on the 3 platform.

[EDS]

For the VW TDI, is the issue with the particulate filter only a problem if you do not drive long distances frequently (lots of short trips) or is it a problem if you only use the car infrequently? So for example, car sits unused for a week or more at a time but most trips when used are longer.

Going to look at the sportswagen this weekend.

[Schmed]

Diesels are fine if they sit for days/weeks/months, but bad if you just take short trips with it. They need to get up to temp for a certain period of time to burn off soot in the DPF.

[thirdgenbird]

For some reason, this cracks me up.

Totally true. I licensed and registered a motorcycle that was only a frame, title, and box of parts. Cars are no different.

For the VW TDI, is the issue with the particulate filter only a problem if you do not drive long distances frequently (lots of short trips) or is it a problem if you only use the car infrequently? So for example, car sits unused for a week or more at a time but most trips when used are longer.

Going to look at the sportswagen this weekend.

It shouldn't be a problem if the car sits and then is driven on long trips. the problem is pushing exhaust through the filter but not heating it enough to burn it off. When the car is parked there is nothing to clog the filter.

[EDS]

Thanks Schmed and Thirdgenbird.

[guido]

Prius meets these requirements fine.

I have a 2005 that is approaching 200k mikes and is still going strong. With the back seat down more space than my old Subaru wagon, with the back seats up more leg room in the back. I still get 50+ mpg in the summer, 42+ in the winter.

A buddy just got one of the 2015 models and a 60cm bike fits fine...

[4Rings6Stars]

If you will be driving that few miles per year, I wouldn't worry too much about fuel economy. 20 mpg vs. 30 mpg won't make more than a couple hundred dollar difference per year... Get something you're comfortable in. TDI definitely does not make sense for all the reasons mentioned.

We currently have a Toyota Highlander and an A4 wagon. Both haul all of the stuff we need (if family is involved, bikes go on the roof) and are very comfortable and have been reliable. (Toyota gets about 25 mpg, Audi about 27).

[Likes2ridefar]

consider the kia forte5 as well. i went through all the hatchback models earlier this year, and liked it the most.

didnt hurt they gave me $4k for my beater of a '94 camry.