Surly vs Rivendell

[campy man]

Considering a Rivendell Ramboiullet after riding a Surly Long Haul Trucker.

I enjoyed the LHT riding around town but as described by another Paceline member handles like a UPS truck. Considering the price it was a good bike but just overbuilt for my needs.

Does anyone have any experience with the Ram & LHT? How would you compare the ride quality between the frames?

[pinkshogun]

my buddy has a 58 LHT and i have a 58 Ram. they are built for different purposes so its tough to accurately compare. the LHT is a stout tourer and the Ram is a lighter sport tourer

my Ram is a bit stiff but i dont find it uncomfortable. i can squeeze a 37mm tire or 28's and fender

there is a blue Ram 58cm frameset on ebay right now at a decent price. a couple little tt dents

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rivendell-Rambouillet-Frame-Headset-Excellent-Cond-/121677126877?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c54859cdd

[Cornfed]

The Trucker rides like a Cadillac, but handles like one too. The Ram is much lighter and quicker, by comparison. And the ride is comparable with good tires.

[tcbc]

I used to own a Surly LHT, which I used for commuting and pulling the kids. On the plus side, it's really sturdy and can take huge tires. However, I always felt like a slug on it. I would only consider it for loaded touring.

I just built up a Canti-Romulus (which from my understanding has the same geometry as the Ram). I haven't put many miles on it yet, but I really like it so far. The handling feels sporty and stable. No, it's not as fast as my road bike when climbing, but I think it will make a great all-rounder.

What do you plan to use your bike for?

[commonguy001]

I'm with TCBC in that I've always felt like I'm dragging an anchor when I'm on my LHT. I've had both the regular and disc versions and while it's a very versatile bike it just isn't a ton of fun to ride.

I'm actually replacing it with a Straggler which should be a hoot

[holliscx]

I have a Cross-check tapped for kid duty and default summer touring. I call mine the school bus (or the sh¡t box) and that's more a knock on ride vs what I use it for but you get what you pay for; I don't trust anyone who swears by his Surly.

[likebikes]

the surly lht is a copy of the riv ramboiullet

[jr59]

Most Surlys make good bikes that do a lot of things well and none great. The trucker, like all true touring bikes rides much better loaded than not.

Like has been said, that riv and the trucker don't really compare, with the trucker being a tourer and this riv being more a sport tourer. The Altanis and the trucker would be much closer.

[palincss]

the surly lht is a copy of the riv ramboiullet

Absolutely not. If the LHT is a copy of anything Rivendell, it's the Atlantis. If they were horses seen on TV, the Atlantis would be harnessed to a Budweiser beer wagon and the Rambouillet would be ridden by a cowboy.

[Tandem Rider]

I have a Cross-check tapped for kid duty and default summer touring. I call mine the school bus (or the sh¡t box) and that's more a knock on ride vs what I use it for but you get what you pay for; I don't trust anyone who swears by his Surly.

Mrs TR commutes on a Cross Check, she loves it because it's indestructible and swears AT it because it handles like a battle tank. :cool:

[eddief]

I suggest you know the actual weights of those in consideration. Riv bikes tend to all be pretty gorgeous, but not necessarily at all sprightly. I wonder the weight difference between an LHT and a Ram? I owned a couple of orange ones and was not impressed with the ride. It won't be as pretty as a Ram, but Curtlo can build you a custom S3 feather for $1125. Or even a Soma Smoothie ES I'd guess lighter than a Ram.

[Ken Robb]

[QUOTE=eddief;1774693] I owned a couple of orange ones and was not impressed with the ride. It won't be as pretty as a Ram, but Curtlo can build you a custom S3 feather for $1125. Or even a Soma Smoothie ES I'd guess lighter than a RamQUOTE]

So Eddie, you disliked the ride of you first Rambouillet so much you bought a second one just to be sure? :) If we can't tease our pals, who can we tease? Certainly not our spouses. :eek:

[Ken Robb]

[QUOTE=eddief;1774693] I owned a couple of orange ones and was not impressed with the ride. It won't be as pretty as a Ram, but Curtlo can build you a custom S3 feather for $1125. Or even a Soma Smoothie ES I'd guess lighter than a RamQUOTE]

So Eddie, you disliked the ride of you first Rambouillet so much you bought a second one just to be sure? :) If we can't tease our pals, who can we tease? Certainly not our spouses. :eek:

FWIW my 62cm Orange Ram with Ultegra 6503 triple, Nitto 46cm Noodles on Nitto Technomic 12cm stem, Nitto post w/B-17 Brooks, and 32 hole Open Pros weighs 20.5 pounds ready to ride.

[eddief]

I was taken in by that orange from the very start. Not sure what brain farts were going on when I went in and out of Rambouillet land. Also had a green coupled one for a while. I also tried two Bleriots to give my nod to 650 b. Those both did not stoke me either. You see, I gave both models 2 chances.

In the end, I just liked my lighter rides better for my fast club riding hobby.

And finally have gotten my New Albion Privateer decked out with rear rack and Ortlieb Shopper bags and now have been using that bike for all of my local errands...instead of the car.

[QUOTE=eddief;1774693] I owned a couple of orange ones and was not impressed with the ride. It won't be as pretty as a Ram, but Curtlo can build you a custom S3 feather for $1125. Or even a Soma Smoothie ES I'd guess lighter than a RamQUOTE]

So Eddie, you disliked the ride of you first Rambouillet so much you bought a second one just to be sure? :) If we can't tease our pals, who can we tease? Certainly not our spouses. :eek:

FWIW my 62cm Orange Ram with Ultegra 6503 triple, Nitto 46cm Noodles on Nitto Technomic 12cm stem, Nitto post w/B-17 Brooks, and 32 hole Open Pros weighs 20.5 pounds ready to ride.

[gemship]

I was taken in by that orange from the very start. Not sure what brain farts were going on when I went in and out of Rambouillet land. Also had a green coupled one for a while. I also tried two Bleriots to give my nod to 650 b. Those both did not stoke me either. You see, I gave both models 2 chances.

In the end, I just liked my lighter rides better for my fast club riding hobby.

And finally have gotten my New Albion Privateer decked out with rear rack and Ortlieb Shopper bags and now have been using that bike for all of my local errands...instead of the car.

[QUOTE=Ken Robb;1774699]

I totally get what your saying here. True story I wanted a LHT in the worst way forever and I still believe it's a great bike but I test rode the Fuji equivalent and I must say it rode very comfortably and felt like a wheel barrow all at the same time. I would rather stick with my aluminum frame Raliegh Cadent1 with max recommended stem stack height. Plenty comfy, still sporty and light feeling with a more sensible bike geometry. Happy to hear you solved you luggage commuting woes although I would still be tempted to take that same Raliegh and do whatever necessary to get to accommodate a bike trailer for some more serious and practical hauling/shopping needs. I believe just about any kind of bike can tow a trailer but you probably need the right kind of axle for the attachment rather than a less robust quick release.

[goonster]

the surly lht is a copy of the riv ramboiullet
Yeah . . . . No. :mad:

[gemship]

Yeah . . . . No. :mad:

agreed they are far from copies and I can't say I have ridden either but really to make an analogy from the sidestands/armchairs, lol...Its like comparing a Ford f250 to the f350.Not counting aesthetics of course.

[Ray]

I was taken in by that orange from the very start. Not sure what brain farts were going on when I went in and out of Rambouillet land. Also had a green coupled one for a while. I also tried two Bleriots to give my nod to 650 b. Those both did not stoke me either. You see, I gave both models 2 chances.

In the end, I just liked my lighter rides better for my fast club riding hobby.

And finally have gotten my New Albion Privateer decked out with rear rack and Ortlieb Shopper bags and now have been using that bike for all of my local errands...instead of the car.


Kind of funny. I had one of the first run of orange Rambouillets. I didn't like it for fast club rides either, but I did plenty of long relaxed solo rides on it and I did almost all of my light touring, up to carrying a credit card load. It was ONE OF my main rides during the years I did the strongest riding I ever managed to do. My email address has ramboorider in it because I had that bike and was riding it all the time when I first signed up for Gmail. Gmail is the service that stuck and now I'm stuck with that handle because you can't change your email address without losing your whole history. So I am now and forever Ramboorider@email.com.

But I did eventually sell that frame because I wasn't doing the kind of riding I had been using it for and I'd also bought a second custom Spectrum ti with S&S couplers with a geometry that could stand in for the Rambouillet when needed. For the type and amount I'm riding now, I should have saved my money and kept the Rambouillet. But I've loved my Spectrums for the past ten years, so no complaints even if I don't do a lot of riding them going forward.

But around the time I sold the Rambouillet, I bought a Bleriot and built it up as a town bike about 8 years ago or so. I still have that bike and use it more than any other bike. I do more miles on other bikes, but I ride that Bleriot all the time and anticipate riding it long after I've stopped doing any longer riding. There are photos of Jimmy and Roslyn Carter on their Riv mixtes riding around Plains well into their '80s - not sure if they're still riding them - but I sort of picture myself like that in my small town on my Bleriot.

I've always had a fast road bike for faster riding that I ever wanted to do on these. But I've loved both of these bikes and gotten a ton of use out of both of them. Sorry they didn't work out as well for you Ed, even after two tries with each!

-Ray

[christian]

I liked my Rambouillet a lot - the construction was first rate, the paint was hardy, the handling was really stable and intuitive. That said, I felt it was overbuilt. It didn't have that nice flex, and almost singing ride of the best steel. I weighed 175-180 at the time I owned it.

I think 9-6-9 tubing is really best expressed in standard, not OS, gauge, unless you're a big big boy.

Steel bikes that rode nicer included my Bianchi Mondiale, '83 Specialized Sequoia, Hampsten SB, and Zanc cx. Obviously, none of those could haul a load like the Rambouillet.

That said, if you're a 200-lbs guy who likes to ride with a saddle bag, I can't imagine a better bike.

[eddief]

would now be just fine for my town bike now, but would not choose it over my ti or carbon for the types of riding I do most of the time. And even now don't need a beauty bike to clank my U-lock and cable against when I go to the gym or the market. New Albion seems better suited for that purpose.

[mvrider]

If you're looking for a real touring bike that could double as a comfortable commuter, I can't speak highly enough of Bruce Gordon's Rock 'N Road (http://www.bgcycles.com/new-page-81-1/). I lucked into one off CL a few years back, and really enjoyed commuting on it. I never felt it was heavy or ponderous, though it's built for full loads.

I only sold it after I realized my bike commuting days were numbered, and my wife would never join me on a fully-loaded tour.

[miguel]

Get an endpoint coffee grinder

Or an elephant NFE

Or a winter built box dog

[weisan]

To me, it's all about picking the right tool for the right job. The onus is on the end user.

Don't complain about the ride of the U-haul being harsh if you need to haul tons of stuff. Similarly don't complain about the lack of room for your bike in a Miata 2-door convertible if you are looking for the zip and the fun. Choose wisely, understand your own needs.

I built up a Surly Trucker Deluxe (the deluxe just means it's a LHT with S&S couplers) with the intention of doing a full-on loaded self-supported touring in the near future. In my first trial run, I took it out for a 2-day bikepacking trip carrying 80 Ibs worth of gear. I knew it was an overkill to begin with but I want to test its "limits" and see how it behaves under load and across different terrains. And you know what? The Surly performed flawlessly. There was one section on the ride where we were bombing down a descent at 45+mph and it was solid as a rock, I have never felt as stable and confident as I did before until I tried it on the Surly. The builder of this bike completely nailed it!
I gave it five-star rating. And yeah, it weighs like a tank.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697898838&stc=1&d=1429307317

This is a video clip of the trip, fast forward to about 2:30, you will get to the descent I was talking about.
https://vimeo.com/126438520

[campy man]

I used to own a Surly LHT, which I used for commuting and pulling the kids. On the plus side, it's really sturdy and can take huge tires. However, I always felt like a slug on it. I would only consider it for loaded touring.

I just built up a Canti-Romulus (which from my understanding has the same geometry as the Ram). I haven't put many miles on it yet, but I really like it so far. The handling feels sporty and stable. No, it's not as fast as my road bike when climbing, but I think it will make a great all-rounder.

What do you plan to use your bike for?

+1 on the LHT

No plans for touring and I have a road bike. Looking for a nice all-rounder that can fit 28-32mm tires and a rear rack that I can use on mixed surface rides. Every now and then follow the kids around town & campgrounds carrying stuff.

I love steel lugged frames so the Riv Ram seems to be a fun bike to build. I'm 210lbs so I'm not thinking lightweight.

[eddief]

It was fun to hear points of view about the Ram. It a fine looking all arounder, but maybe not everyone's choice for going fast. So yes, a Ram for fun would be just right.

[sparky33]

I liked my Rambouillet a lot - the construction was first rate, the paint was hardy, the handling was really stable and intuitive. That said, I felt it was overbuilt. It didn't have that nice flex, and almost singing ride of the best steel. I weighed 175-180 at the time I owned it.

I think 9-6-9 tubing is really best expressed in standard, not OS, gauge, unless you're a big big boy.

Steel bikes that rode nicer included my Bianchi Mondiale, '83 Specialized Sequoia, Hampsten SB, and Zanc cx. Obviously, none of those could haul a load like the Rambouillet.


+1 on all of this.
The Rambouillet is a good stable versatile bike. Not a racer, not a loaded tourer. Ram orange is also the best paint job ever (https://www.flickr.com/photos/27988383@N06/5502898405).

You could pick up a Riv Roadeo which is IMO a better version of the now retired Rambouillet.

In addition to the deserved recs for Zanc and Hampsten, you might also look at a Boulder Brevet 700c.

[Ken Robb]

+1 on all of this.
The Rambouillet is a good stable versatile bike. Not a racer, not a loaded tourer. Ram orange is also the best paint job ever (https://www.flickr.com/photos/27988383@N06/5502898405).

You could pick up a Riv Roadeo which is IMO a better version of the now retired Rambouillet.

In addition to the deserved recs for Zanc and Hampsten, you might also look at a Boulder Brevet 700c.

As I recall Grant described the Roadeo as a lighter bike for go-fast road riding and correspondingly less versatility. He couldn't bring himself to use the "R"ace word. :)

[sparky33]

As I recall Grant described the Roadeo as a lighter bike for go-fast road riding and correspondingly less versatility. He couldn't bring himself to use the "R"ace word. :)
I think Grant is still right with that. The Rodeo is a fine go-fast road bike, but it wouldn't be my choice for a dedicated Rrrrrracing bike.
:)

[JAllen]

To me, it's all about picking the right tool for the right job. The onus is on the end user.

Don't complain about the ride of the U-haul being harsh if you need to haul tons of stuff. Similarly don't complain about the lack of room for your bike in a Miata 2-door convertible if you are looking for the zip and the fun. Choose wisely, understand your own needs.

I built up a Surly Trucker Deluxe (the deluxe just means it's a LHT with S&S couplers) with the intention of doing a full-on loaded self-supported touring in the near future. In my first trial run, I took it out for a 2-day bikepacking trip carrying 80 Ibs worth of gear. I knew it was an overkill to begin with but I want to test its "limits" and see how it behaves under load and across different terrains. And you know what? The Surly performed flawlessly. There was one section on the ride where we were bombing down a descent at 45+mph and it was solid as a rock, I have never felt as stable and confident as I did before until I tried it on the Surly. The builder of this bike completely nailed it!
I gave it five-star rating. And yeah, it weighs like a tank.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697898838&stc=1&d=1429307317

This is a video clip of the trip, fast forward to about 2:30, you will get to the descent I was talking about.
https://vimeo.com/126438520

That's exactly my thoughts.

Sweet LHT by the way... :)

[goonster]

Its like comparing a Ford f250 to the f350.
If the LHT is the F-350, the Rambouillet is more like a Caddy DeVille, i.e. a cruising car with a big trunk and good paint; definitely not a truck.

The Rambouillet was not built for panniers, and the steering geo is not that kind to a handlebar bag either.

(This thread makes me feel old. People are now talking about Rambouillets the way I heard about Fat Chance and Ibis bikes when I started riding.)