Colnago C59 - missing serial number??

[adhumston]

Ok, so I may have jumped the gun, I'm just not sure. I was watching (and contemplating) a C59 on eBay for awhile. There were (still are, I'll link ad later) a multitude of high quality pictures in the listing, which I examined in detail. Unfortunately, somehow I completely overlooked the fact that the serial number was not on the frame! Don't ask me how, but I did.

So fast forward a bit, auction is about to end, and I make a low offer (but still not cheap) and it's accepted about 30 minutes later, much to my surprise. I wait somewhat impatiently for the frame for about a week. It arrives (in a colnago box) with a colnago owners manual and is as beautiful as the pictures... until I check the serial number, which, as you know by now, is not there. It does have, what appears to be, the correct Colnago (by Acros) headset, and everything else looks legit. The only other question mark I have is on the way the driveside BB insert is bonded to the shell, as it looks a little sloppy.

Anyway, the listing with the pictures is below. I would greatly value opinions, but please go easy on my lack of intelligence for not checking for the serial number initially!

The listing is here (http://www.ebay.com/itm/221785419320?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2F i.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D2217854 19320%26_rdc%3D1)

[Gat64]

This picture I found clearly shows where the serial number should be. Does it look like anything was removed there?

[adhumston]

This picture I found clearly shows where the serial number should be. Does it look like anything was removed there?

That's the worst part... I knew where it should be, I just didn't look! It does look like it could've been removed, but I'm not sure how it is attached on the c59s. Is it just a sticker?

I did forget to mention that there is a part of the manual (that appears to be a bar code, or perhaps where the serial # was written) that is blacked out with permanent marker.

[Gat64]

Looks like it could have been a repaint near the hanger. It seems this style usually has a white section painted at the end of the chain stays (see picture) and yours does not seem to have this.

[ultraman6970]

Did you ask the seller?

[adhumston]

Did you ask the seller?

I did, and waiting to hear back now. Hopefully it ends up being easily explained!

[enr1co]

C59 frames have its serial # stamped on the inside of the left rear drop out.

Have seen a few and none have serial # stickers anywhere else.

[Black Dog]

Is your fear that it is fake or stolen? Check the dropout as mentioned above.

[adhumston]

C59 frames have its serial # stamped on the inside of the left rear drop out.

Have seen a few and none have serial # stickers anywhere else.

Do you recall how the serial # is attached? The dropout where it's located is carbon, so I don't think it can be stamped directly on.

[adhumston]

Is your fear that it is fake or stolen? Check the dropout as mentioned above.

Either and both!

Edit: I guess I'm actually more concerned it's a fake, as I'm not sure it's within in the realm of possibility to return it to it's rightful owner at this point, if in fact it would turn out to be stolen (which would be hard to prove without the serial #), though I would definitely try.

The serial # is not there, or if it is, it's painted over. If you click the link in the pics, there's a picture or two that show that dropout.

[Black Dog]

I looked and there is no trace on the dropout. If it is a sticker and the serial number is blacked out with a marker then stolen is a possibility. This being a fake is very unlikely because of the use of carbon lugs and the difficulty in making them as well as the shaped tubes.

You can get barcode scanning apps for your phone to get the serial number from the manual.

[wallymann]

dude...i think it's a fake.

absence of a serial# (http://img2.iwascoding.com/0/2015/04/21/23/17148EFF0D564EA3ABF779C4F65AACEF.jpg) is a *big* red flag. that would fly in the early 1980s and before, but not in the 2010s! in my experience, colnago serial#s are *not* stickers, they are machined directly into the dropout.

just eyeballing some pics i see:

the cable inserts at the top of the downtube are shaped wrong.
the front-mech bracket (https://podman99.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/c59-gdob-2.jpg) is shaped wrong.

maybe colnago made a bunch of running changes, but...really?

This being a fake is very unlikely because of the use of carbon lugs and the difficulty in making them as well as the shaped tubes

disagree completely with this. i can google search a couple chinese websites and can order/buy fake C59s all day long.

[adhumston]

dude...i think it's a fake.

absence of a serial# is a *big* red flag. that would fly in the early '80s and before, but not in the 2010s! in my experience, colnago serial#s are *not* stickers, they are machined directly into the dropout.

just eyeballing some pics i see:

the cable inserts at the top of the downtube are shaped wrong.
the front-mech bracket is shaped wrong.

maybe colnago made a bunch of running changes, but...really?


Not noticing the lack of serial # was a HUGE oversight on my part. I'm still not sure how they would/could machine the serial # into the carbon dropout, but I don't know enough about it, so I'm purely speculating.

I do actually see a couple different styles of downtube cable inserts when typing 'Colnago C59 cable' into google images, so perhaps they did make some changes throughout the run??

I really can't find clear enough pictures of other braze ons, but I don't see any glaring differences... at least not like the obviously fake examples (on those the rivets aren't even painted).


Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to justify my purchase, I just want to have clear examples to be able to take to PayPal and eBay if I (we) can determine it's not authentic.

[enr1co]

Do you recall how the serial # is attached? The dropout where it's located is carbon, so I don't think it can be stamped directly on.

The rear dropouts are of aluminum.

Is the inside of your left drop out completely smooth? The stamp may not be really deep but enough to have some impression for numbers and typically "masked" off with a small rectangular black background.

Typically looks something like this pic from another ebay listing:


http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/OTAwWDE2MDA=/z/muoAAOSweW5VeHQB/$_57.JPG

[R3awak3n]

But how hard would it be for a fake to have a serial number?
They can easily figure out how colnago "serializes" (lol) bikes. People figure out how to crack software with serial numbers with 3 times more characters.


I think that if this is fake you have a good chance to get your money back. Ebay does not tolerate fakes and i am sure that seller does not want to loose his account. It will be a pain because he is in the netharlands ( why i never want to buy bikes on ebay outside of the us) but its too much money to just not get what you want and he will make it right or ebAy/paypal will.

I really like that color scheme.

[Highpowernut]

Seems like a fake, good luck getting a refund. That's why I don't like to buy off eBay . At least you have some recourse with PayPal/ eBay .

[adhumston]

I generally don't buy off eBay for this type of item either, and this is exactly why.

I sent the pictures to Colnago and just heard back from them. The consensus there is that it appears genuine from their examination of the pictures, but they can't know for sure without the serial number.

I'm wondering it it, in fact, wasn't resprayed and the serial number painted over? I still haven't heard back from the seller as of yet. I don't want to try and remove the paint from the dropout until I hear from them, less they (and eBay/PayPal) refuse to refund because I "modified" the item.

I do have to say that it it is a fake, the paint is phenomenal.

[IJWS]

This is perplexing. What's going on with that tranzx seat collar? The rest of the C59's I see online have Colnago branded collars...but this is used and tranzx is a german company... Do you live near a Colnago dealer? Go in and compare the frames side by side. If it's a fake, the weight might be off, but any inconsistency would show up faster. How "low but not too low" was your offer? There's not a huge market for used 48cm frames from last year, I would lean towards legitimate--the only funny business being the serial number being blacked out on the owner's manual (possibly from another frame), and the absence of a serial on the frame itself. In the images I've seen online, the serial stamped on the rear non-driveside chainstay is clearly legible. Your ebay seller has some 'splaining to do about that. Good luck! Keep us updated. You should be covered by eBay and Paypal if anything goes wrong.

[enr1co]

I sent the pictures to Colnago and just heard back from them. The consensus there is that it appears genuine from their examination of the pictures, but they can't know for sure without the serial number.



From the listing pics, it looks like a C59- the front derail mount and downtube mounts look OK, tube shapes look legit. Was this frame supposed to be new/unbuilt? From the listing pics, it looks like no parts were mounted on the BB face, derailleur mounts or wheels in the dropouts as the paint in those areas looks untouched.

Are you able to post pics you sent to Colnago?

[adhumston]

From the listing pics, it looks like a C59- the front derail mount and downtube mounts look OK, tube shapes look legit. Was this frame supposed to be new/unbuilt? From the listing pics, it looks like no parts were mounted on the BB face, derailleur mounts or wheels in the dropouts as the paint in those areas looks untouched.

Are you able to post pics you sent to Colnago?

I sent a link of the listing to Colnago. I would like to give them a shout out, as they were very helpul and took the time to look over them.

I snapped a close up Macro pic of the left rear drop out. After looking close, it appears the serial number has been painted over. I'll let everyone else chime in and see what they think. Here is the pic;

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x327/adhumston/IMG_5844.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/adhumston/media/IMG_5844.jpg.html)

[adhumston]

This is perplexing. What's going on with that tranzx seat collar? The rest of the C59's I see online have Colnago branded collars...but this is used and tranzx is a german company... Do you live near a Colnago dealer? Go in and compare the frames side by side. If it's a fake, the weight might be off, but any inconsistency would show up faster. How "low but not too low" was your offer? There's not a huge market for used 48cm frames from last year, I would lean towards legitimate--the only funny business being the serial number being blacked out on the owner's manual (possibly from another frame), and the absence of a serial on the frame itself. In the images I've seen online, the serial stamped on the rear non-driveside chainstay is clearly legible. Your ebay seller has some 'splaining to do about that. Good luck! Keep us updated. You should be covered by eBay and Paypal if anything goes wrong.

Funny thing is, I actually noticed the seatpost collar, as I had that concern as well! When I realized it was a German company, it actually assuaged my concerns (i.e it wasn't a cheap china part).

I don't mind posting what I paid, as I won't resell it (legit or fake, obviously), but my offer was for $1700 (all inclusive). Again, not cheap, but not a "screaming deal" either.

check the just posted pic of the rear dropout. I'm now 90% certain in was painted over, which in itself is disconcerting.

[Lionel]

If it has been re-painted, why ? If you were not told about it it sounds fishy.

[adhumston]

If it has been re-painted, why ? If you were not told about it it sounds fishy.

Exactly. From the picture I posted, you can clearly see the outline of the serial number "stamping".

I'm guessing just the serial number was painted over, which again, is very disconcerting. The paint on the rest of the frameset is absolutely flawless, while this dropout is not.

[enr1co]

Definitely looks like this dropout area was painted over and re-cleared - enough to fill in the serial # impressions.

Dropout areas typically get paint chips, use wear here so its expected. Probably should have left it as is. Painting over it like this just creates questions.

Perhaps the bottom bracket area is painted over also which may explain why
the BB faces look to have all the (re spray )paint intact?

[IJWS]

I found a few more C59's posted by italian_bicycles_world_wide_shipping, the serial number is either obstructed or painted over in all their photos. I have to say, the Chinese versions are pretty close (http://www.dhgate.com/store/product/2015-road-bike-carbon-frame-china-c59-chinese/242104728.html#se1-2-1b|1878201125). Fingers crossed that you get a believable story from the seller--also, a vote of confidence for the Colnago people. They must look at Chinese fakes all day--they should be much more familiar with what the differences are. If they gave it an ok, that's a good start. Keep us updated!

[adhumston]

I sent the picture to Mauro at Colnago (who, again, has been extremely helpful), and he agrees that it is there, and has been painted over.

I've sent another message to the seller asking about this, and requesting permission to remover the paint to verify the serial number. Obviously I shouldn't have to ask, but I want everything documented if anything untoward is going on.

[ultraman6970]

Well the frame could have arrived damaged to HOlland, and then repaired and repainted or in italy or in holland, not that is has to be sent too far or nobody in holland cant fix a carbon frame not paint a bike.

With the serial number in hand there is a big chance that colnago knows why the thick paint.

BTW you dont need to peel that off just sand it a little bit.

[adhumston]

I found a few more C59's posted by italian_bicycles_world_wide_shipping, the serial number is either obstructed or painted over in all their photos. I have to say, the Chinese versions are pretty close (http://www.dhgate.com/store/product/2015-road-bike-carbon-frame-china-c59-chinese/242104728.html#se1-2-1b|1878201125). Fingers crossed that you get a believable story from the seller--also, a vote of confidence for the Colnago people. They must look at Chinese fakes all day--they should be much more familiar with what the differences are. If they gave it an ok, that's a good start. Keep us updated!

I actually looked very closely at those pics, and there are some glaring differences. The most obvious to me, is the braze on for the front derailleur. Also, the dropouts are quite a bit different (almost appears to a monocoque structure on the fakes).

I'm really tempted to just get the paint off of the dropout now, but I should probably wait.

[enr1co]

I actually looked very closely at those pics, and there are some glaring differences. The most obvious to me, is the braze on for the front derailleur. Also, the dropouts are quite a bit different (almost appears to a monocoque structure on the fakes).

I'm really tempted to just get the paint off of the dropout now, but I should probably wait.

The front derailleur mount and the dropouts looks standard C 59 and if you are getting the nod from Colnago already this may not be a primary concern.

With evidence of a respray, I would be more curious if there is some repair attempting to be concealed. If a repair was done correctly, this itself wouldnt be an issue. If the seller states non-awareness to the respray, it
will be continual speculation.

[adhumston]

Due to my impatience, I went ahead and carefully removed some of the paint covering the serial number location.

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x327/adhumston/IMG_5845.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/adhumston/media/IMG_5845.jpg.html)

From what I've uncovered, I think it would be futile to continue to remove more of the paint, as it appears that the other numbers been scratched off.

I've sent the photo to Mauro at Colnago, and am awaiting his opinion.

Regardless of the outcome, the seller definitely has some explaining to do!

[Black Dog]

This smells of stolen goods. Did you try scanning the bar code on the manual or sending a pic of the code to Colnago so they can scan it?

[RonW87]

Could it not also be a frame that did not pass quality control but went out the back door at Cambiago?

[adhumston]

This smells of stolen goods. Did you try scanning the bar code on the manual or sending a pic of the code to Colnago so they can scan it?

I definitely would, but its been blacked out. The seller got back to me claiming it was purchased at an authorized Colnago dealer. I've asked fo receipts or some form of verification.

We'll also see what he has to say regarding the scratched off and painted serial #.


Thanks to all for the opinions and insight this far!

[Louis]

I would just make the decision to either send it back to the seller right off (if he'll take it) or just ride the bike. This is getting more and more complicated, when you should be trying to make things simpler.

[Black Dog]

I definitely would, but its been blacked out. The seller got back to me claiming it was purchased at an authorized Colnago dealer. I've asked fo receipts or some form of verification.

We'll also see what he has to say regarding the scratched off and painted serial #.


Thanks to all for the opinions and insight this far!

Is the bar code also covered or just the serial number below it?

[azrider]

Due to my impatience, I went ahead and carefully removed some of the paint covering the serial number location.

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x327/adhumston/IMG_5845.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/adhumston/media/IMG_5845.jpg.html)

From what I've uncovered, I think it would be futile to continue to remove more of the paint, as it appears that the other numbers been scratched off.

I've sent the photo to Mauro at Colnago, and am awaiting his opinion.

Regardless of the outcome, the seller definitely has some explaining to do!

So wait.....you damaged the frame further and still intend to send it back? I think you now own it outright so just keep it and ride it.

What's that old saying, "if it's too good to be true........." :rolleyes:

[Joachim]

This smells of stolen goods.

This.

[IJWS]

That ebay seller has been selling since 2007. I think you should make a claim and get your money back. This helps explain why the serial numbers aren't visible in their other C59's for sale. If you are talking to Colnago already...ask them if you should do the right thing or if they're interested in getting involved. Maybe they'll throw you a bone and discount something legit for you. If nothing else, at least mention "stolen goods" in your ebay feedback. 8 years of stolen goods and still at 99.7% positive feedback. Thanks ebay!

[KJMUNC]

I just realized that I've been looking at this seller's bikes for a while now....he has some pretty unique frames - JET C50, Mapei C40, etc.

You can see the serial # on the C50, but not on the C40, and both have what I'll call "odd" paint anomalies in the pics. The C50 has white overspray on the f/d hanger that makes it look new, but the rest of the bike shows clear signs of use. The paint on the C40 looks too good.....dropouts have paint over them, but he doesn't say "never built up", which I'd think would be a huge claim if you had a truly NOS C40 frame.

Maybe it's all explainable, but this combined with the serial number issue are throwing off huge alarms for me. Too bad, as I'd often thought about buying that Ale JET C50....such a cool frame!

[enr1co]

If this situation does not feel right in your gut, I would just intiate opening up a case with ebay to return the frame.

[adhumston]

I would just make the decision to either send it back to the seller right off (if he'll take it) or just ride the bike. This is getting more and more complicated, when you should be trying to make things simpler.

I believe now that it is an authentic C59, but the problem lies in the fact that, if it is stolen, I won't be able to conscientiously keep it without at least trying to ascertain the plausibility of tracking down the rightful owner (which will obviously be a feat). Not to mention the fact that there may be an eBay seller knowingly selling hot goods.

Is the bar code also covered or just the serial number below it?

Both unfortunately.

So wait.....you damaged the frame further and still intend to send it back? I think you now own it outright so just keep it and ride it.

What's that old saying, "if it's too good to be true........." :rolleyes:

It wasn't a "too good to be true......" deal actually. It was simply a good deal, not astounding by any stretch. If you would've read the whole thread, you would see that I overlooked the fact that the serial number was painted over. Stupid mistake on my part?? absolutely. I pored over the pictures comparing every aspect to known fakes, and somehow didn't realize the serial number was painted over.

If you mean I "damaged the frame further" by removing the paint and exposing the serial number, then I guess I did. Though I believe the bigger question is why was it painted over in the first place, and why was it partially scratched off beforehand?


That ebay seller has been selling since 2007. I think you should make a claim and get your money back. This helps explain why the serial numbers aren't visible in their other C59's for sale. If you are talking to Colnago already...ask them if you should do the right thing or if they're interested in getting involved. Maybe they'll throw you a bone and discount something legit for you. If nothing else, at least mention "stolen goods" in your ebay feedback. 8 years of stolen goods and still at 99.7% positive feedback. Thanks ebay!

I looked over the sellers feedback and prior listings before making an offer, which mad me feel better about doing so. Had there been any mention of potential stolen goods in any of the feedback remarks that I read, I would have not even considered making an offer.

If nothing else comes out of this, at least others will be aware of the potential of receiving items that may not be on the up and up.

Colnago has been extremely helpful thus far... I'm impressed. Unfortunately they don't keep a list of stolen serial #s (I already asked), but maybe they know other routes to pursue the rightful owner if it comes to that.

I just realized that I've been looking at this seller's bikes for a while now....he has some pretty unique frames - JET C50, Mapei C40, etc.

You can see the serial # on the C50, but not on the C40, and both have what I'll call "odd" paint anomalies in the pics. The C50 has white overspray on the f/d hanger that makes it look new, but the rest of the bike shows clear signs of use. The paint on the C40 looks too good.....dropouts have paint over them, but he doesn't say "never built up", which I'd think would be a huge claim if you had a truly NOS C40 frame.

Maybe it's all explainable, but this combined with the serial number issue are throwing off huge alarms for me. Too bad, as I'd often thought about buying that Ale JET C50....such a cool frame!

At least this thread has done some good for someone already! I actually looked at that one too, obviously not my size, but definitely beautiful!

The paint on "my" frameset is actually impeccable... all but the left side dropout where the serial number was covered!

Again, I do not know that this frame is not legit in every way. Hopefully it is and there is a reasonable explanation to everything. I'll be sure and keep everyone updated, and appreciate the feedback.

[christian]

TL;DR

My interpretation: that ebay seller is obviously hawking stolen goods.

[-dustin]

That's a good looking bike. I'd be building it by now.

[RoadWhale]

Just clicked on the eBay link. I've been following some of the vendor's listings over the last year or so. Always has amazing stuff for sale (Mapei C40!) but now I find myself looking at every one of the Seller's photos to see if a serial number is visible. I hope this situation resolves in your favour!

[Charles M]

Another consideration is that this could have been crashed and repaired.

But I would guess stolen.


There are folks getting high end rigs snatched left right and center in southern cal... and they have to be moved somewhere...

[Keith A]

Assuming this is on the inside of the left dropout, then the serial number on this C59 being sold on eBay from the same seller looks like it is painted over too...

http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/35119584/aview/IMG_2454.JPG

[Exonerv]

It may be interesting to ask the seller specifically for the Serial # on the frame above, and just see how he responds...

[enr1co]

It may be interesting to ask the seller specifically for the Serial # on the frame above, and just see how he responds...

Painted over serial #- not good.

The seller better have the sense not to mess with Paceline CIS :cool: ;)

[bikser]

I read a book last year by an American living in Amsterdam called the Amsterdam Cyclist (I think). Very good, interesting, explaining the history of bikes and cycling there. There was a large emphasis on stolen bikes there. It's really unbelievable, thousands upon thousands every year. Large market for them there, known dealers, where to get them. People would even buy a bike to ride home for the night because it was cheaper than other forms of transportation. So, point being it wouldn't be unheard of to be buying a stolen bike from there, or there be some organized form of sales of them.

[adhumston]

I'm glad this thread has at least brought the issue to everyone's attention!

It just keeps getting weirder for me... I have been in contact with the seller through email over the last couple days;

1. He claims he purchased the frameset new at an authorized dealer in Tuscany, but he didn't check the serial number or the paperwork. Tredici in Montemurlo is the dealer he supposedly purchased it from.

2. He has not provided any documentation to support the above claim.

3. He has no idea how or why the serial number was painted over, nor why it would be partially scratched off.

4. When asked about the other c59 he currently has listed (why the painted over serial number), he claimed, again, that he wasn't aware and stated that he would update the listing (I haven't checked yet).

He has supposedly has purchased (and subsequently sold) over 20 C59 framesets, yet was unaware of any issues with the serial numbers.

5. He asked for my phone number to speak directly. I did not provide it, as I prefer to keep all communications easily documented (email). Somehow he managed to get my cell number and call me anyhow (which I let go to voicemail).

6. He had offered to allow me to return the frame at his cost, though obviously that will not solve the larger issue at hand.

To top it all off, the gents at Colnago are sure the frameset is a legit Colnago C59, though I haven't heard back (as of yet) on my request for any advice on how to proceed from here (hoping they'd have some insight from perhaps dealing with similar situations).

[Dirtdiggler]

Any chance to contact Tredici ? Time to google

[adhumston]

Update:

Just received another email stating he is going to talk directly with the dealer to "understand the reason for the issue with the serial number".

He also informed me that he "decided to end the other listing from the C59 as I want to make sure what is going on"

SO we will see what transpires from here.

[adhumston]

Any chance to contact Tredici ? Time to google

Google doesn't tell me much, as everything is in Italian and the translate feature isn't always available. Perhaps someone who understands the language can check it out?

[Dirtdiggler]

found their blog with pictures

http://ciclitredici.blogspot.com/

[IJWS]

This is so interesting! Paceline detectives solved the crime-now, how to mete out the punishment? Does ebay have any policies about their sellers' stock sources? Doubtful. But this guy, since 2007, that's a lot of hot merch. If there was a way to screw that merchant, I would advocate it. Arrange a return and then don't return the frame??? Who knows? It seems like you're close to figuring this out. Now the real question is: now that you've done the due diligence, do you keep the frame? I smell a paceline poll...but if I were you, I wouldn't follow the poll. You can make your own decision. Good luck!

[slinkywizard]

Paceline detectives solved the crime-now, how to mete out the punishment? !

I completely disagree: At best, Paceline detectives has established that the seller in question is selling apparently legitimate colnago frames with partially removed serial numbers...The source: stolen? B-stock that didn't make quality control? Frames delivered to pro teams that were not used? I agree the removal of the serial numbers is suspect...but gathering a lynch mob seems a bit pre-emptive...or is innocent until proven guilty a strictly european thing? There were literally hundreds of ex-pro C50's and C40's on the Dutch market when Rabo still used Colnago...

[ultraman6970]

The only thing the op needs to do IMO is to try to find the truth of why the S/N issue, why that was done. Well the frame could have been resprayed just to make it look new and get more money out of it or was maybe damaged, then returned to colnago to get it fixed and due to that was resprayed.

With a little bit of luck the seller should tell the OP the story straight. Maybe even knock a few bucks to the OP to make him feel better??

[Idris Icabod]

Since the seller has a few frames without serial number/obliterated serial number, could he be buying through a non-authorized distributor who is trying to protect themselves by removing the tracability of the frame?

[adhumston]

The only thing the op needs to do IMO is to try to find the truth of why the S/N issue, why that was done. Well the frame could have been resprayed just to make it look new and get more money out of it or was maybe damaged, then returned to colnago to get it fixed and due to that was resprayed.

With a little bit of luck the seller should tell the OP the story straight. Maybe even knock a few bucks to the OP to make him feel better??

Agreed, and that's what I've been trying to do. The seller has been receptive throughout, though seemingly evasive at certain points, which may have something to do with English being his second language.

Here's the latest update;

Seller went to the store where he purchased the frameset(s). This is what he was told apparently: "He told me that these frame sets are ex professional team bikes which had been repainted."

Hence the reason for the missing/scratched off serial number.

I honestly am not at all familiar with this. Is it consistent with what race teams/manufacturers do?

Do I have anything to worry about with it being an ex-race bike?

Opinions please!

[beeatnik]

You got a GREAT deal. Just ride the thing.

Enjoyed the forensics doe. :cool:

Here's my C59 Italia. I bought it used with very low miles. When I received it, I felt that it looked beat to caca for a newish frame. That's just the nature of Colnagos, I sink. In any case, once I started riding the thing, all my reservations faded. C59 is the best production carbon fiber frame set ever made. End of Story.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/425/18967542031_6c2269757f_b.jpg

[firerescuefin]

I'd imagine Colnago would be able to link that frame to a race team if that was the case.


Agreed, and that's what I've been trying to do. The seller has been receptive throughout, though seemingly evasive at certain points, which may have something to do with English being his second language.

Here's the latest update;

Seller went to the store where he purchased the frameset(s). This is what he was told apparently: "He told me that these frame sets are ex professional team bikes which had been repainted."

Hence the reason for the missing/scratched off serial number.

I honestly am not at all familiar with this. Is it consistent with what race teams/manufacturers do?

Do I have anything to worry about with it being an ex-race bike?

Opinions please!

[buddybikes]

Respray makes sense, that looked like lot of paint on those dropouts.

Note: I haven't seen a C59 original paint job...

[mg2ride]

Do I have anything to worry about with it being an ex-race bike?

Opinions please!

They get soft from over use.

[lovebird]

I've heard for years from dealers and others griping about Colnago selling frames in the "grey" market or otherwise dealing directly with a few "favored" dealers (including one prominent one in the UK). My bet is that this goes on a little more widely than we suppose.

Could this C59 be an example of another "distribution channel" and the serial number gets scratched off much the same way that the cover page of a non-current magazine or the cover of an overstock book gets removed or otherwise marked (to avoid returns, mostly). Maybe Colnago really doesn't have a problem with authentic (but non-warranty-able) frames being out there? Of course we can't tell whether the manual for this frame actually goes with the frame (because bar code and serial numbers are both obliterated), but assuming they do go together it's impossible to imagine that the frame was stolen along with its manual. I don't know - just a thought I had.

Respray of a team bike doesn't sound too plausible to me - it's pretty expensive (labor intensive) to respray it correctly I'd have to think - would it really be worth the cost over the price of the unrefinished team frame? Maybe I guess. I bet they just glopped on some paint on the dropout (hence why it looks so thick there, but the rest of the paint looks great, at least from the pics).

For this frame, I'd try to get a few hundred back from the seller to avoid further ebay messiness and then just ride it, it looks GREAT! (I guess I'm pretty selfish regarding other potential buyers of items from this seller, but caveat emptor on the 'bay....)

[Lionel]

respray of team bike is absolutely not a common practice.

[beeatnik]

They get soft from over use.

Are you trolling again?

[enr1co]

You got a GREAT deal. Just ride the thing.

Enjoyed the forensics doe. :cool:

Here's my C59 Italia. I bought it used with very low miles. When I received it, I felt that it looked beat to caca for a newish frame. That's just the nature of Colnagos, I sink. In any case, once I started riding the thing, all my reservations faded. C59 is the best production carbon fiber frame set ever made. End of Story.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/425/18967542031_6c2269757f_b.jpg

Ive had 3 pre-owned C59 frames -with visible serial #'s- (JK!) :p

First one I purchased was too small so I went next size up to a EPS/Di only frame (a ex pro team frame as-is orig paint). Sold that one off after finding a preferred colorway. Total ownership time is almost 2 yrs without jonesing for another bike - well, except maybe for a C60 :)

Should you not decide to keep this one, acquire another one that your are comfortable with and you'll be echoing Beeat's comments after a few miles.

BTW Beeatnik, great looking Mapei C59 but why is your photo not showing the rear drop out/serial #? ;)

[ultraman6970]

Honestly I doubt team bikes are repainted... clothing in Holland ends up as donation (from what I know), with bikes is weird because when a team closes or get new bikes only a few make it to team members or riders and the rest from what I know are returned but well this could be one of those returned and resprayed. Wonder if a guy I know, knows something about it...

Either way I would keep that frame, enjoy the ride man :)

[beeatnik]

BTW Beeatnik, great looking Mapei C59 but why is your photo not showing the rear drop out/serial #? ;)

enr1co, that was a weak attempt to protect the Paceline Flipperatti. Haha.

OP, I dropped nearly a grand more for my chipped/scratched as fek, non-preferred colourway, zero chance at resale cos of chopped/slammed steerer C59. Still think I got a pretty good deal.

Colnago Geo is Stoopid (but it works!) Slammed with a -17 degree stem.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3939/15092166013_ab3625211a_b.jpg

[ultraman6970]

I like this one... if you dont let me know :P

[beeatnik]

ultra, I like your style

[-dustin]

For this frame, I'd try to get a few hundred back from the seller
Why's that?

[lovebird]

Why's that?

Mostly because I'm just cheap and couldn't resist the chance to turn a decent- to good-deal into an outstanding deal :)

But seriously, looking for serial numbers in pics is not something I would do in an ebay listing, but if I'd known that the serial number was deliberately altered, I would not have bid or would have bid less. I'd always have the nagging doubt that this was a crashed frame that had been repainted, even though my head would tell me probably not. The seller here deals in these frames all the time, and is in the best position to notice that there were problems with the serial numbers. At the very least, if the seller didn't know, he should have.

I don't know, but a few hundred would compensate me for that doubt and lack of disclosure about the painted over dropout/serial number, but I can see how some people wouldn't care while others would demand that the seller take it back.

[katkeeper36]

First off, that is a beautiful ride....since you'll never find it's true origins, you should let that go and enjoy the bike.

Secondly, thanks for the info on this seller. I too have been talking with him with regards to my search for a Colnago C59 ADWH.....if he ever finds one I will be sure to get pictures of the serials and dropouts (looking for repaints).

While this person can help you find your dream bike, it's up to us to hold him to a higher standard. Thanks for sharing. Here is his Instagram link. https://www.instagram.com/colnago_for_sale/