When are tubulars appropriate (or help me drink the Kool-Aid)?

[RobJ]

The tubular suppleness thread got me reconsidering my wheel choice. Similar to the OP, I have used tubulars in the past on my TT bike and for some training (and cx), but was never properly prepared with a spare tubbie or sealant etc. Plus they weren't great tires and were mounted to some noodly cheap imported wheels. So I don't have the context to compare the ride. Maybe now is the time to try them out.

My problem is that I am always 'training' when on the bike. I never seem to be out just enjoying the ride or doing a relaxing group ride or Grand Fondo. I'm usually doing some sort of interval workout etc. I'm trying to get back to just enjoying the ride more. So I have always been reluctant to use tubulars because if I'm 40 miles out from home, flat and have to swap out the tire (if sealant doesn't work), then I have to lolly-gag it home and feel like I missed a workout.

When you have flatted can sealant usually handle the issue and you can carry on? Do you ride them everyday or just bring them out on Sunday's for special rides? I think if I armed with the proper tools like the rounded-edge screwdriver, the pre-glued replacement tire stowed under the seat, sealant and practice before hitting the road, I might talk myself into this. Anyone want to push me?

[FlashUNC]

Do it. Do it do it do it.

Here's how I justify it.

1) The prep really isn't all that much more work. Yeah, pulling a tire off and putting another on isn't cake on the roadside, but can be done in about the same time it takes to swap a tube in a clincher tire.

2) What would kill a tubular in a way that sealant can't fix probably would kill a clincher too. I killed a rear tubular with a sidewall to sidewall gash from some kind of crap in the road that the guy in front of me in a paceline didn't call out. If that were a clincher, I'd have needed to call the sag wagon anyways because the tire was dead, dead, dead.

3) I like the peace of mind of knowing that if I get, say, a flat on the front, there's something else holding the tire on beyond just the clincher bead.

If you ride sensibly and avoid crap in the road, its really not that big a deal.

[guido]

Tubulars are appropriate for cross racing, or any time there is neutral or team support.

For training? Not so much...

[ik2280]

Tubulars are appropriate for cross racing, or any time there is neutral or team support.

For training? Not so much...

I train on clinchers (Gatorskin hardshells) and race on tubulars (Conti Comps or occasionally Paves), but I bet a lot of people here will disagree with this.

[palincss]

My problem is that I am always 'training' when on the bike. I never seem to be out just enjoying the ride or doing a relaxing group ride or Grand Fondo. I'm usually doing some sort of interval workout etc. I'm trying to get back to just enjoying the ride more. So I have always been reluctant to use tubulars because if I'm 40 miles out from home, flat and have to swap out the tire (if sealant doesn't work), then I have to lolly-gag it home and feel like I missed a workout.


Honestly, to me this sounds as though you're more in need of an attitude adjustment than a change in tires.

[Dead Man]

Tubulars are appropriate for everything.

You can use them for whatever you want, and have a set of clinchers collecting dust for whatever you DON'T want to use tubulars for. They'll be collecting dust, because you aren't ever gonna want to go back to them, though

I roll tubulars 100%, now... and that includes some 25mm tubular road tire on gravel, some. It includes all training, all racing, all climbing, all TTing, all everything, over all road surfaces. I don't get very many punctures, because I've learned to be even more diligent about avoiding them (yes, it is possible to get better at this), and the few that I do get have all, thus far, sealed up on their own with an aggregate sealant.

They're a little bit of a PITA, as far as changing on the rim - but once you get a method down, and drop all the superstition surrounding proper gluing, it's actually not that bad - I can go from brand new, unglued rim/tire to riding in about 3-hours, or even less (last set I did I was riding about 2 hours after I started) - Vittoria Mastik One glues up REALLY WELL, and is at 80% strength (which is still better adhesion than 100% strength of all the competitor glues) within an hour of installing.

My method:

Wipe rim with acetone, apply layer of Mastik
Wipe tire with acetone, apply layer of Mastik
Tidy up my shop for 15 minutes
Apply second layer of glue to rim, mount tire immediately
Ride about an hour later

[teleguy57]

Do it. Do it do it do it.

Here's how I justify it.

1) The prep really isn't all that much more work. Yeah, pulling a tire off and putting another on isn't cake on the roadside, but can be done in about the same time it takes to swap a tube in a clincher tire.

2) What would kill a tubular in a way that sealant can't fix probably would kill a clincher too. I killed a rear tubular with a sidewall to sidewall gash from some kind of crap in the road that the guy in front of me in a paceline didn't call out. If that were a clincher, I'd have needed to call the sag wagon anyways because the tire was dead, dead, dead.

3) I like the peace of mind of knowing that if I get, say, a flat on the front, there's something else holding the tire on beyond just the clincher bead.

If you ride sensibly and avoid crap in the road, its really not that big a deal.

Tubulars are appropriate for everything.

You can use them for whatever you want, and have a set of clinchers collecting dust for whatever you DON'T want to use tubulars for. They'll be collecting dust, because you aren't ever gonna want to go back to them, though

I roll tubulars 100%, now... and that includes some 25mm tubular road tire on gravel, some. It includes all training, all racing, all climbing, all TTing, all everything, over all road surfaces. I don't get very many punctures, because I've learned to be even more diligent about avoiding them (yes, it is possible to get better at this), and the few that I do get have all, thus far, sealed up on their own with an aggregate sealant.


Yes, the question is when you wouldn't want to run tubs, and for the me the answer is almost never. I believe I get a more comfortable ride as I can run lower pressures with no worries about pinch flatting, I don't think about flatting in a group or on a downhill and having my tire come off the rim with nasty consequences, and I can change a tub as fast as a clincher -- if I have to...

The if I have to comes in as I've fixed a few small punctures (literally less than a handful in quite a few years) sealant as an on-the-road repair, and I believe good tubs are significantly less prone to flatting overall.

I have three sets of tubs that get ridden a lot, and one pair of clinchers that come out during wet/slop/cold winter rides more to avoid trashing nice rims than anything else.

Tubs just make sense.

Here endeth the sermon.

[Avincent52]

I agree totally with TeleGuy57 (as in whiteguard fender?) and The B on this.
Tubulars 24/7 IMHO.

I used to work on the south side of Chicago and my thought process was 180 degrees opposite. I rode past some rather infamous and potentially dangerous housing projects (now gone, I gather) and that was one of the reasons I rolled tubulars exclusively.
I could change a Tubular in less than 60 seconds on the back, maybe 40 seconds on the front, and be rolling before I attracted attention.

A Clincher? A 5-10 minute process whether you patched or just replaced the tube.

The only downside is the expense, but I got to the point where I didn't puncture much, partly because I was hyper-aware of what was on the road and brushed it off with my glove if I rolled through some unavoidable debris.
All of that made me a better, safer rider.

[carpediemracing]

My problem is that I am always 'training' when on the bike. I never seem to be out just enjoying the ride or doing a relaxing group ride or Grand Fondo. I'm usually doing some sort of interval workout etc. I'm trying to get back to just enjoying the ride more. So I have always been reluctant to use tubulars because if I'm 40 miles out from home, flat and have to swap out the tire (if sealant doesn't work), then I have to lolly-gag it home and feel like I missed a workout.

If you're "always training", meaning in a structured way, I wouldn't use tubulars. Save the performance boost for whatever you're training for.

I'm reasonably proficient in both tubulars and clinchers (worked in shops for 15 years, been doing my own maintenance for about 20 years since). It takes me, in a pretty poor case scenario, about 10 min to change a clincher. Best/better case might be 2-4 minutes. It takes me about 15-20 minutes to remove a properly glued tubular, although I suppose I could remove one in a minute or two if I didn't care about saving the tire. Most tubular punctures are actual punctures (pin, nail, etc) and I'll save such a tire to have the tube replaced. However if the casing is ripped or damaged then it's not worth it to get it fixed.

When I trained on tubulars I don't carry a spare or anything else. I go out with the understanding I'm calling for a ride if I flat. I used to use the old regular width rims (21mm) and just rode the tubular home. With the new wider rims (25-28mm) I find it virtually impossible to ride a front flat.

[saab2000]

Tubulars aren't some kind of black magic. Just try them.

I don't ride them for any kind of performance benefit. I do, however, find that the best ones ride nicer than clinchers, even nice clinchers though the gap is narrow with wider rims and lower pressure in high quality clinchers. My Pacenti SL23s with 23mm Vittoria Open CX clinchers on my Hampsten single speed ride very, very nicely indeed at about 90 PSI.

I ride tubulars about 95% of the time and I carry a spare tire. If I get a flat I'll get the old tire off with a tire lever to pry under it and get it off and I'll put the spare on. The ride will likely be a write-off for me because my spares aren't really well glued but it's adherent enough to ride moderately as long as I'm pretty ginger around the turns.

I do not carry a sealant and I don't pre-seal the tires either. The one time I tried a Vittoria sealant it didn't work and the hole was, in my opinion, one that ought to have been sealable with a sealant. Take that for what it's worth. My one sealant experience was a zero.

In my experience tubulars do indeed puncture less than clinchers. I can't explain why, but my experience is that I have fewer flats with tubulars than with clinchers. I don't pinch flat tires so it's not that. But I've had good success in over 30 years of riding tubulars, both racing and recreationally.]

If I weren't so heavily invested in tubulars I might not do them today with the wider clinchers and lower pressures we now accept as normal.

[RonW87]

It's not appropriate to use a tubular when you are not strong enough to remove and mount a tubular on the road (eg my wife).

[Ralph]

I find it interesting how many are just discovering tubulars and how popular they still are. They are terrific for racing and ride great. I rode them for more than 30 years because not many great choices in clinchers 30-40 years ago.

About 10 years ago, I switched over to clinchers, and would never consider going back to tubulars....for my 125-150 miles per week of riding hard with my buds. Clinchers maybe roll faster, and while ride not quite there yet, getting close. Have a flat....just buy a tube....if still using them.

Like many on here, I think installing tubulars no big deal, and I can sure change a tubular out on the road a lot faster than I can stuff a tube in a tire. If I were racing, and someone else buying tires for me, is only way I would go back to tubular.

The one big advantage I think tubulars have over clinchers is in rim design especially for carbon wheels. The tubular rim design allows a lot of weight savings with carbon. You can build some really strong low spoke count very light wheels with carbon and tubulars. I don't see near same advantage to carbon clincher wheels, might as well use aluminum clincher wheels...better braking and far cheaper.

So when you discuss clincher VS tubular tires, I think you need to include fact that tubular has a big advantage in carbon wheel construction VS clincher. The main advantage to tubular these days, especially in racing, is when pared with a modern carbon rim. MHO

[enr1co]

You definitely need to be able to fill in the "check box" for tubular experience.

Get yourself that nice set of used tubular wheels and some new tires from the classifieds and at nice price to be able to spend some time and miles with them.

If you happen to find they dont meet your expectations and/or value/performance/convenience equation, you can always sell them back on the forum with minimal out of pocket cost to the next person curious with trying tubulars.

[rwsaunders]

My concern about changing a punctured tubular out on the road pales in comparison to my concerns about breaking a spoke or hitting a large animal. If you already have a spare set of tubular wheels, just enjoy the ride as the new breed of tires is pretty hard not to like.

[zap]

If I weren't so heavily invested in tubulars I might not do them today with the wider clinchers and lower pressures we now accept as normal.

I still don't get this-wide rims/tires.

I have the new wide Bora's with wide 23 tires-for me that's a freaking tandem tire. Maybe with straighter sidewalls this is more aero but then the frontal area is bigger too. I've settled on tire pressure-10psi lower (@105F & 110R) than what I normally use with 21 tires.

[fatallightning]

I can't be bothered versus the efficiency and ride quality of wide clinchers now. The difference is marginal at best, but pain in the ass factor is off the charts. Any gains in rolling resistance rely on a pristine glue job. And if you use tape? No hope.

[saab2000]

I still don't get this-wide rims/tires.

I have the new wide Bora's with wide 23 tires-for me that's a freaking tandem tire. Maybe with straighter sidewalls this is more aero but then the frontal area is bigger too. I've settled on tire pressure-10psi lower (@105F & 110R) than what I normally use with 21 tires.


The internal width on the Campagnolo rims is still like 17 mm. Only the external has changed. The wider Pacenti rims ride pretty nicely.

[shovelhd]

I train on wide clinchers on wide rims and race on wide tubulars on wide rims. Good clinchers with latex tubes ride and handle >=90% as well as comparable tubulars. The cost is a wash. A spare tubular is more than a spare tube if you're buying new. Otherwise there's no reason not to ride tubulars 100% of the time. The only reason I don't is because my clincher wheels new are half of the cost of my tubular wheels used, and I ride them 3x-4x as much. If I trash a training wheel I don't cry about it.

[professerr]

^This. Even when clinchers were, say, 70% of the performance of tubulars in the 80s and 90s, I always ended up training on clinchers for cost and convenience reasons. Now, as shovel says above, I believe they are quite close to being comparable for training, especially if you use wide rim clinchers, fancy tires and fancy tubes. And you’ll get accustomed to any remaining difference almost immediately -- well at least until you flat that brand new Veloflex Arrrghhenberg.

It seems that you, the OP, have dealt with tubulars already and have at least some idea of the expense and learning curve. Personally, I can’t imagine it being worth it for a newbie to go through all that for very, very marginally improved training experience.

[pbarry]

^This. Even when clinchers were, say, 70% of the performance of tubulars in the 80s and 90s, I always ended up training on clinchers for cost and convenience reasons. Now, as shovel says above, I believe they are quite close to being comparable for training, especially if you use wide rim clinchers, fancy tires and fancy tubes. And you’ll get accustomed to any remaining difference almost immediately -- well at least until you flat that brand new Veloflex Arrrghhenberg.

It seems that you, the OP, have dealt with tubulars already and have at least some idea of the expense and learning curve. Personally, I can’t imagine it being worth it for a newbie to go through all that for very, very marginally improved training experience.

Clinchers were pure cr*p until the early 90's. Everything else above is well said. :)

[Gummee]

I'll toss another wrench in the monkey works: riding gravel is a really good place for tubies.

Just about every time I ride clinchers on gravel roads, I manage to flat at least once.

Not so for the tubulars I've been riding lately.

I've got some LAX tires stretching in the garage that need gluing here in the next week 'cause Hilly Billy is right around the corner

M

[zap]

The internal width on the Campagnolo rims is still like 17 mm. Only the external has changed. The wider Pacenti rims ride pretty nicely.

Standard clincher rims including up until very recently Campy & Mavic, internal width 15mm. Bora clinchers are 17.4mm.

I'm switching all my road singles to clinchers. The last 2 times I had to remove flat tubulars, to damn hard on my fingers to remove. Injuries are catching up.

[oldpotatoe]

The tubular suppleness thread got me reconsidering my wheel choice. Similar to the OP, I have used tubulars in the past on my TT bike and for some training (and cx), but was never properly prepared with a spare tubbie or sealant etc. Plus they weren't great tires and were mounted to some noodly cheap imported wheels. So I don't have the context to compare the ride. Maybe now is the time to try them out.

My problem is that I am always 'training' when on the bike. I never seem to be out just enjoying the ride or doing a relaxing group ride or Grand Fondo. I'm usually doing some sort of interval workout etc. I'm trying to get back to just enjoying the ride more. So I have always been reluctant to use tubulars because if I'm 40 miles out from home, flat and have to swap out the tire (if sealant doesn't work), then I have to lolly-gag it home and feel like I missed a workout.

1)When you have flatted can sealant usually handle the issue and you can carry on? 2)Do you ride them everyday or just bring them out on Sunday's for special rides? I think if I armed with the proper tools like the rounded-edge screwdriver, the pre-glued replacement tire stowed under the seat, sealant and practice before hitting the road, I might talk myself into this. Anyone want to push me?

1)-I pre use Orange seal, get very, very few flats(none this year in 4 months, probably 1600 or so miles

2)Every dry day since if it's raining/wet, can't get the spare to stick.

3)Even if I do get a flat, I put a decent spare on, not some crappy tire, and when I do get home, I often don't have to glue it on better.

Do it, the ride is sublime, the 'chore' really isn't, and nancys ride clinchers.

[oldpotatoe]

Standard clincher rims including up until very recently Campy & Mavic, internal width 15mm. Bora clinchers are 17.4mm.

I'm switching all my road singles to clinchers. The last 2 times I had to remove flat tubulars, to damn hard on my fingers to remove. Injuries are catching up.

This plus lots of other small options

[Gummee]

This plus lots of other small options...and if you're using Shimano style QRs, there's ALWAYS a pair of emergency tire levers holding your wheels onto your bike.

M

[saab2000]

Standard clincher rims including up until very recently Campy & Mavic, internal width 15mm. Bora clinchers are 17.4mm.

I'm switching all my road singles to clinchers. The last 2 times I had to remove flat tubulars, to damn hard on my fingers to remove. Injuries are catching up.

I didn't realize they had been so narrow before!

Anyway, I love the ride of tubulars, especially good ones and I use mostly Veloflex but there are other high quality ones out there.

I do think wider clinchers with a bit lower pressure have narrowed the gap.

My first experience on the wide clinchers was our trip to France (I wish we could do it again!!!!) and they rode nicely. The wheelset was a bit of a pig though (Record 32/28 and Velocity A23 rims) and when I went back to my Nucleons it was night and day better with the Nucleons.

As mentioned, if I were starting today I might not do tubulars. Clinchers have narrowed the gap noticeably and there is a convenience that's hard to ignore.

Just finished a ride on the Zanconato with Veloflex Criteriums glued to Nucleons. It's hard to beat this!

[zap]

This plus lots of other small options

Used something similar way way back in the aluminum rim day's.

[Unk]

I'm an old geezer. I basically only rode tubulars (Clement Criterium Setas in various weights) through the 80s, when clinchers got better. When clinchers did improve, I immediately ditched them for training. I could go through four tires in a 200km training ride, what with the thorns, glass, flat-inducing pointy rocks and metal shards around here. By the fourth time I pulled off the rear tubular, I was (1) weary, (2) dreading the fact that I'd be spending hours patching (though it was faster with a batch to do at once), (3) wishing that some of the damage wasn't life-ending for the expensive tire and (4) wondering how much adhesion the remaining glue (tire plus rim) would have and how much I could/couldn't "push it" in the corners without rolling a tire (again, after four changes). Between all of these troubling thoughts, my training ride would go to $^&* by the end.

Sure, I gave up some performance on the training miles, but it did make my racing tubulars feel like riding on a cloud (cush and lightness).

Off-topic: did anyone ever try the first Specialized tubulars? What a terrible tire!

[denapista]

Tubular tires are warranted if you want a butter soft ride. They are more expensive than clinchers, that's the only downside IMHO. The ride quality trumps clincher tires. The key to a long lasting tubular tire, is run the PSI low. When you over inflate them, they get gashes and cuts easier. Also if you want durability, go with Conti Sprinter Gatorskins. It's a tire that gives you some of the tubular ride feel, but lots of the clincher protection. Conti uses a Butyl inner tube, versus Latex in most Tubular tires. The Latex tube rides amazingly soft though, which is the benefit of a tubular ride.

The gluing process is fun, and I chalk it up to part of bike maintenance. Some people like to ride their bikes and never touch it. Just be mindful of what you ride over and you'll get long life out of tubulars. I ride both..

[thwart]

Tubular tires are warranted if you want a butter soft ride. They are more expensive than clinchers, that's the only downside IMHO. The ride quality trumps clincher tires. The key to a long lasting tubular tire, is run the PSI low. When you over inflate them, they get gashes and cuts easier. Also if you want durability, go with Vittoria Corsa Elite in 25 mm. It's a tire that gives you some of the tubular ride feel, but lots of the clincher protection. Vittoria uses a Butyl inner tube, versus Latex in most Tubular tires. The butyl tube they use rides amazingly soft though, which is the benefit of a tubular ride.

The gluing process is fun, and I chalk it up to part of bike maintenance. Some people like to ride their bikes and never touch it. Just be mindful of what you ride over and you'll get long life out of tubulars. I ride both...

Fixed it for ya. IMO, anyway... having ridden both.

[pjmsj21]

It is interesting to hear the cost of tubulars as a reason not to ride them. I am a total tubular newbie but I really don't see the cost of tubulars as being that much different than clinchers assuming you are talking premium tires. I took a quick look at Ribble pricing and found the following:

Schwalbe One's: $56
Veloflex Arenberg: $70
Veloflex Roubaix: $ 66
Vittoria Corsa CX: $46
Vittoria Corsa Elite: $31
Vittoria Pave: $53

Now you wont find this pricing at your LBS, assuming they have any tubular tires at all, but with prudent shopping tubulars can be pretty darn close to clincher pricing.

[denapista]

I forgot about the corsa elite. I hear they ride better than the conti gator sprinter tires. I've had no luck with tread durability with Vittoria tires. I'll give those a try in the near future.

Granted Ribble is a good source for parts, buying tubular tires from American sources are pretty high. I've never ordered from ribble, but damn at those prices I'm going to start. I'll stock up on Corsa Elite's and let them chill on ice. $70 Arenberg is insane! I personally like FMB Roubaix tires, but man I shed tears when I puncture them. Cost more than my Avant car tires.

biketiresdirect.com

veloflex Arenberg - $116
veloflex carbon - $101
Vittoria Pave - $119
Vittoria Corsa Elite - $69

[thwart]

I forgot about the corsa elite. I hear they ride better than the conti gator sprinter tires. I've had no luck with tread durability with Vittoria tires. I'll give those a try in the near future.

Granted Ribble is a good source for parts, buying tubular tires from American sources are pretty high. I've never ordered from ribble, but damn at those prices I'm going to start. I'll stock up on Corsa Elite's and let them chill on ice. $70 Arenberg is insane! I personally like FMB Roubaix tires, but man I shed tears when I puncture them. Cost more than my Avant car tires.

biketiresdirect.com

veloflex Arenberg - $116
veloflex carbon - $101
Vittoria Pave - $119
Vittoria Corsa Elite - $69

Yep, at $34 a tire from Ribble they're cheaper than high end clinchers. And, yes folks, they do indeed ride better.

I'm not a fan in general of throw-away stuff (seems like almost everything is nowadays), but even a cheapskate like me would be reluctant to repair a $34 tubular. Of note is the fact that this situation has yet to come up.

And... stocking up is OK since aged tubulars are 'tougher' than new ones.

[cderalow]

Yep, at $34 a tire from Ribble they're cheaper than high end clinchers. And, yes folks, they do indeed ride better.

I'm not a fan in general of throw-away stuff (seems like almost everything is nowadays), but even a cheapskate like me would be reluctant to repair a $34 tubular. Of note is the fact that this situation has yet to come up.

And... stocking up is OK since aged tubulars are 'tougher' than new ones.



Do those corsa elites have removable cores?

That was the mistake I made recently buying a rally. thinking it had a removable core when it doesn't

I'm running some off brand tubulars, with veloflex carbons and was looking to see what my replacements would be. Also need to figure a good spare at this point.

[thwart]

Do those corsa elites have removable cores?

That was the mistake I made recently buying a rally. thinking it had a removable core when it doesn't

I'm running some off brand tubulars, with veloflex carbons and was looking to see what my replacements would be. Also need to figure a good spare at this point.

Yes, removable cores. And better yet, no removable valve stem like the Corsa CX's.

[denapista]

The Elite's have a removable core, for sealant or extending if needed.

[Dead Man]

There are tubulars without removable cores?? That'd be a pretty worthless tubie, for me

[shovelhd]

Corsa CX do not have removable valve stems. Some of the Corsa Evo CX did. No longer.

[thwart]

Corsa CX do not have removable valve stems. Some of the Corsa Evo CX did. No longer.
That's good to hear, they were a PITA.

I've moved on regardless. The Corsa Elites are more than adequate for a non-racer like myself. Cheaper and more durable, yet you lose very little in performance.

YMMV.

[cderalow]

There are tubulars without removable cores?? That'd be a pretty worthless tubie, for me

that's what I would have thought as well, however the Vittoria Rally does not have a removable stem nor core.

so can't even extend them for my 50mm carbon rims.

probably be great if i built up a shallow set of rims (20mm or so), but I'm trying to ebay the one i bought thinking it would be my spare.

[teleguy57]

The Corsa Elites are more than adequate for a non-racer like myself. Cheaper and more durable, yet you lose very little in performance. YMMV.

But they don't come in tan sidewalls.... :)

[palincss]

I'll toss another wrench in the monkey works: riding gravel is a really good place for tubies.

Just about every time I ride clinchers on gravel roads, I manage to flat at least once.


What by you is a "clincher"? Perhaps you're using the wrong tires for gravel. I know for a fact there are people who ride long, hard rides on gravel with appropriate clincher tires without flats. Here (https://janheine.wordpress.com/2014/05/27/oregon-outback-and-the-long-way-back/) is a ride report for one such ride.

[oldpotatoe]

I forgot about the corsa elite. I hear they ride better than the conti gator sprinter tires. I've had no luck with tread durability with Vittoria tires. I'll give those a try in the near future.

Granted Ribble is a good source for parts, buying tubular tires from American sources are pretty high. I've never ordered from ribble, but damn at those prices I'm going to start. I'll stock up on Corsa Elite's and let them chill on ice. $70 Arenberg is insane! I personally like FMB Roubaix tires, but man I shed tears when I puncture them. Cost more than my Avant car tires.

biketiresdirect.com

veloflex Arenberg - $116
veloflex carbon - $101
Vittoria Pave - $119
Vittoria Corsa Elite - $69

Wow same as retail. Even US based MO getting hit.

[shovelhd]

that's what I would have thought as well, however the Vittoria Rally does not have a removable stem nor core.

so can't even extend them for my 50mm carbon rims.

probably be great if i built up a shallow set of rims (20mm or so), but I'm trying to ebay the one i bought thinking it would be my spare.

Just use an extender that hides the valve. It will be fine for a spare.

[oldpotatoe]

Yes, removable cores. And better yet, no removable valve stem like the Corsa CX's.

The last gen. CXs lost the red removal stem...they saw the light.

[Gummee]

What by you is a "clincher"? Perhaps you're using the wrong tires for gravel. I know for a fact there are people who ride long, hard rides on gravel with appropriate clincher tires without flats. Here (https://janheine.wordpress.com/2014/05/27/oregon-outback-and-the-long-way-back/) is a ride report for one such ride.
I'm reporting on what happens to me. Clinchers? Flats. Tubulars? No flats.

So... when I'm going riding on mixed surfaces, I'm on tubulars.

Including the Hilly Billy Roubaix for the last 2 years straight (and again this year). Last year I was sitting with the announcer after the ride and he asked 'how many flats?' Several people had 3-4-5 flats on the day. I said 'zero, I'm riding tubulars' and he looked at me like I had a hand growing out of my forehead.

It works. I'm sticking to it.

M

[palincss]

I'm reporting on what happens to me. Clinchers? Flats. Tubulars? No flats.


So maybe for you "a clincher" is a 21mm tire blown up to 200 psi? If so, no wonder you're getting flats! You're being rather economical with details -- and in the case of riding on gravel, the devil very often is in the details. Not all wired-on tires are the same, not by a long chalk. I have no doubt you're getting flats. But it wouldn't be fair to over-generalize your experience, and I'm sure there's a lot more to this story than you're telling. The fact that people successfully rode the Oregon Outback on clinchers without flats is proof that it can be done -- but I'll bet the tires they were using were rather different from what you were using.

[Dead Man]

I don't do a ···· ton of gravel riding on my 25mm Elites, but but I do often get mutiple 2-5 mile stretches of gravel. Not packed gravel, mind you - West side gravelly gravel. I've yet to get a tubular puncture on gravel - all my punctures have been on clean-looking asphalt.

[marciero]

What by you is a "clincher"? Perhaps you're using the wrong tires for gravel. I know for a fact there are people who ride long, hard rides on gravel with appropriate clincher tires without flats. Here (https://janheine.wordpress.com/2014/05/27/oregon-outback-and-the-long-way-back/) is a ride report for one such ride.

Not meaningful to compare 42 mm clincher to whatever tub Gummee is riding, which I am guessing is < 30.

[cderalow]

Just use an extender that hides the valve. It will be fine for a spare.

and just leave the valve in the open position below the extender?

hadn't thought of that.

:bike:

if they don't sell on ebay, I'll go that route. Will still need to replace the current veloflexes with something more economical in the future.

[Gummee]

Not meaningful to compare 42 mm clincher to whatever tub Gummee is riding, which I am guessing is < 30.

Smallest thing I've ridden on gravel is a 28mm Gatorskin. Most of the time I'm on 34c CX tires pumped to 50ft/55rr.

Its been clincher Racing Ralphs for a bit 'cause I got a good deal on a pair from the UK and haven't managed to wear em out yet. Gravel wheels have (wait for it!) Racing Ralph tubulars on em from the same UK purchase. Bought em for the 'grass crits' we call CX in the DC Area, but didn't like em for racing.

M

[fuzzalow]

Claims that tubulars do not puncture as readily as clinchers are based on unreliable, subjective and inconsistent anecdotal evidence. With the exception of pinch-punctures which are a unavoidable by product of clincher construction, a bicycle tire is the same rubber & canvas on the roadway. Tubular or clincher has a staple, a nail, a piece of wire, glass shards, etc penetrating either tire carcass the exact same way. All that is different is the luck of the draw in that tire meeting up with any random debris.

Don't kid yourself, modern top level clinchers aren't giving away much to top level tubulars. Unless running carbon clinchers and then there is lots of difference but now the comparison is muddied by issues about rim construction.

I think the best reason to run tubulars is that it is a rite de passage for any serious cyclist and running tubulars embraces a unique element that crosses the timeline of all of cycling. It is esoteric and some might even consider quirky to what the rest of the world sees as simply a tire. But to cyclists it is something unique to ourselves, tradition and the common link to Coppi, Bartali, Merckx and Poulidor. And tubulars ride pretty sweetly with a beautiful hum on pavement that any clincher has yet to reproduce.

I ride both tubulars and clinchers. I am apostolic about neither one. But I know the difference.

[professerr]

I'm reporting on what happens to me. Clinchers? Flats. Tubulars? No flats.

So... when I'm going riding on mixed surfaces, I'm on tubulars.

Including the Hilly Billy Roubaix for the last 2 years straight (and again this year). Last year I was sitting with the announcer after the ride and he asked 'how many flats?' Several people had 3-4-5 flats on the day. I said 'zero, I'm riding tubulars' and he looked at me like I had a hand growing out of my forehead.

It works. I'm sticking to it.

M

Confirmation bias, cognitive dissonance, or whatever, tubularistas are always trying to convince that they flat less. And when they do get flats, we see posts about how they “wore out” the tire or, my favorite, it was a “manufacturing defect” that mysteriously caused the tire to leak air.

OK, I don’t get pinch flats with tubulars, but then again I’ve not pinched a clincher in years. I get at least as many cuts and punctures with tubulars, I always have, and this is no surprise given the relevant part of the tire and tube is exactly the same.

[teleguy57]

Claims that tubulars do not puncture as readily as clinchers are based on unreliable, subjective and inconsistent anecdotal evidence.

Confirmation bias, cognitive dissonance, or whatever, tubularistas are always trying to convince that they flat less.

Both generally valid comments. Most of us like what we ride and believe it works for us -- or we wouldn't be riding the tires we do. For me it is data informed (edited from driven); I track all my equipment, and while an n of one doesn't make for great science, I know I have significantly fewer flats/mile ridden on tubular vs clinchers (measured as mileage from new tire installation to first flat on the tire). And I know I have a greater percentage of tubulars that get to the "worn out" stage without flatting than I do clinchers.

Do I have some form of bias? Sure, but I also have my own personal data set. YMMV -- that's one of the joys of our sport.

Let's all go ride our favorite tires!

[Ed-B]

Okay, you got me. I've been neglecting my stash of tubular wheels and tires. In fact, I was all but ready to completely swear-off the hassle of rim cement, base tape separation, and the lumpy wobble of many tubulars for the ease and uniformity of clinchers. I was going to sell it all and be done with it. But after reading this thread I decided to revisit sewups and ride a set today.

I went big, and put the handbuilt 28 hole tubular wheelset shod with Campionato del Mondo sewups back onto the '73 Raleigh RRA and went for a ride this morning. It was glorious. Smooth, fast, - and that sound; that ringing, singing sound of the tires rolling down the pavement.

I have some nice tubular wheels with freewheel hubs. I may have to rebuild one with an 11 speed cassette hub and run it on one of my modern bikes just for kicks. And then, I may have to try a set of carbon tubular wheels to see what that's all about. Right?

Geesh, I thought I was done with sewups.

[thwart]

It was glorious. Smooth, fast, - and that sound; that ringing, singing sound of the tires rolling down the pavement.

I'm going with that.

All you tubular naysayers can...

... go suck an egg. ;)

[cderalow]

I'm going with that.

All you tubular naysayers can...

... go suck an egg. ;)

I will say this...

the sound my carbon tubulars make when rolling is pretty sublime.

[professerr]

I will say this...

the sound my carbon tubulars make when rolling is pretty sublime.

Vittoria Open Corsa clinchers actually sing a bit too on my HED Ardennes.

Never tried a low profile carbon tubular rim, and I'd certainly give it a go. That said, the sound of high profile carbon rim always reminds me of a Big Wheel.

[RyanH]

There's also the safety element. As long as you're diligent about your glue job, tubulars are safer since a blowout won't result in possible loss of control. I had a razor gash my rear wheel at 30mph during a sweeping turn in a crit and I came to a controlled stop.

I ride Continental Sprinters daily and have for the last 15k miles over the last two years through most of Los Angeles. I probably get 2-3 flats a year. On clinchers, the number was higher but I'd say mostly because of pinch flats.

Bring a half bottle of Stan's and a preglued tub along with your ride and you'll never need to call for a pickup.

[Dead Man]

I don't even carry a spare tire, 99% of the time.

[RyanH]

Is the wife your backup plan?

[Dead Man]

Is the wife your backup plan?

She's only had to pick me up once, and it was on my first ride on a new rear tire that I hadn't had a chance to put sealant in yet - the leak was so slow, I was able to ride 40 miles before she got to me, stopping to put more air in every 10 miles or so

[Skream]

I train on clinchers (Gatorskin hardshells) and race on tubulars (Conti Comps or occasionally Paves), but I bet a lot of people here will disagree with this.

+1

I do the exact same thing except that I only run tubulars in certain races where if I flat it's game over. If I flat clinchers in an 80 mile road race, i can swap it out and still have a decent ride.

If I had the cash I would get Enve 3.4 clinchers and run them for everything.

[marciero]

Smallest thing I've ridden on gravel is a 28mm Gatorskin. Most of the time I'm on 34c CX tires pumped to 50ft/55rr.

Its been clincher Racing Ralphs for a bit 'cause I got a good deal on a pair from the UK and haven't managed to wear em out yet. Gravel wheels have (wait for it!) Racing Ralph tubulars on em from the same UK purchase. Bought em for the 'grass crits' we call CX in the DC Area, but didn't like em for racing.

M

For some reason was thinking smaller road tires. My bad, as they say.

[kennykaos]

I've only used tubulars for cyclocross, and even then I only used them for racing. I wanted them to last me as long as possible so for training rides/practices I'd use clincher, that way if I flatted I could still get home without calling the sagwagon.

[Gummee]

I've only used tubulars for cyclocross, and even then I only used them for racing. I wanted them to last me as long as possible so for training rides/practices I'd use clincher, that way if I flatted I could still get home without calling the sagwagon.

I've built a few pairs of AL tubulars for training. While its not *exactly* like riding the carbon wheels in a CX race, you can at least get used to the way the tire feels at different pressures. Bouncing around? Let a few psi out till you're not. Tire rolling over? Add a few psi till they're not. Gotta find that sweet spot and doing it in training is much better than doing it in a race.

I've got the same tires glued to the race wheels and training wheels so I can learn where the cornering boundaries are. Training on clinchers and racing on tubulars you don't get the same feel in your tires.

@marciero: no worries.

Did 5hrs of mixed surface riding yesterday on my RR tubulars. Yay for no flats!

M

[cderalow]

I've built a few pairs of AL tubulars for training. While its not *exactly* like riding the carbon wheels in a CX race, you can at least get used to the way the tire feels at different pressures. Bouncing around? Let a few psi out till you're not. Tire rolling over? Add a few psi till they're not. Gotta find that sweet spot and doing it in training is much better than doing it in a race.

I've got the same tires glued to the race wheels and training wheels so I can learn where the cornering boundaries are. Training on clinchers and racing on tubulars you don't get the same feel in your tires.

@marciero: no worries.

Did 5hrs of mixed surface riding yesterday on my RR tubulars. Yay for no flats!

M


I was thinking I should do something similar as far as building up a set of aluminum tubulars... or finding an old set to rebuild.

both to try my hand at building wheels... and because after 300 miles on these used carbon ones... I can't see a reason to go back to clinchers.

[rwsaunders]

I thought that I finally had to add "orange juice" to my front tire as it had developed a noticeable overnight leak after 2,800 miles or so...25mm Veloflex Roubaix. Turns out the valve core was a little loose which resulted in the leak, and now all is well. I'm anxious to see if I can get the 3,750 miles out of the tire per the Veloflex specifications. Looking at the tread, it looks very doable.