Clamping Carbon Frame Dropouts to Trainers

[Splash]

I know a lot has been stated on this topic over the years, but are we any closer to an agreed position on whether or not it is safe to clamp carbon frame dropouts to fixed trainers (such as CT or KK)?

Does the carbon frame get damaged for this sort of clamping (and being ridden on high mileage in this clamped position) in the short term and long term?

What is a trainer skewer and should it be used with the CT with a carbon frame?

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=528014

http://forums.cervelo.com/forums/p/2536/15445.aspx


SPlash

[sitzmark]

I would (do) not do it, but have a number of friends who do and seemingly without issue. YMMV

[malcolm]

I personally would not use a carbon framed bike fixed to a traditional trainer. I can't imagine it's good to repeatedly apply torque with the rear triangle fixed, but I suspect it's done regularly without incident. With the massive amounts of power I produce I could probably use a balsa wood frame with no problem.

[shovelhd]

No problems whatsoever.

[FlashUNC]

Check with the manufacturer. Some expressly forbid it for some models. I know Seven doesn't with some of their frames.

[RedRider]

ride rollers...problem solved.
Clamping or stressing carbon in ways it was not originally designed can be risky. Trainers as well as fork mounted roof rack can be an issue for carbon dropouts.

[Peter P.]

Yet more reasons to not ride carbon. If I have to wonder whether it's safe to do things to carbon that other materials shrug off, I'll walk away.

Give me a minute to put on my flame retardant suit...

[Cicli]

Here where I am at its summer.
Trainer? No way! Not thinking about it even a little.

[Splash]

ride rollers...problem solved.
Clamping or stressing carbon in ways it was not originally designed can be risky. Trainers as well as fork mounted roof rack can be an issue for carbon dropouts.

Yes, just been thinking of this and reading up on this.

The E-Motion Real Rollers (with ANT +) attracts me a lot.

Would this setup be able to provide structured interval Power training if i had a power meter installed on my bike?

I also have a strong solid Spin Bike that I can use for stand up sprint heavy duty stuff.


Splash

[makoti]

I solved the problem by using an old ti frame I wasn't using with the bare minimum parts as my trainer bike. I wouldn't use my carbon, and didn't even like using my good steel.

[Wesley37]

Imaginary problem. I work at a LBS that has dealt primarily in carbon frames for a number of years now, it is in Ottawa, Canada, so many of our customers ride their carbon bikes on the trainer hundreds of hours a year, I have never, never, *never* heard of any problems related to this.

Or, if you worry about this, also worry about the boogie-man and malevolent pixies in the woods.

[Charles M]

Good post (above)...


If this were a solid issue that folks could use to bash carbon, you would've seen it here.

Logic says it is a stress area, but it's not like carbon drops are new and the number of issues posted about this have been how many?


But hey, lets get back to pimping rollers and metal frames...

[kgreene10]

Yes, just been thinking of this and reading up on this.

The E-Motion Real Rollers (with ANT +) attracts me a lot.

Would this setup be able to provide structured interval Power training if i had a power meter installed on my bike?

I also have a strong solid Spin Bike that I can use for stand up sprint heavy duty stuff.


Splash

I used E-Motion rollers (standard, not Real) with my Quarq this past winter and intervals were not only no problem, they were a joy compared to fixed wheel trainer. Well, in so much as intervals can be joyful.

[Ti Designs]

Learn how to ride (I'm just gonna start all of my posts that way...)

Lots of people get on trainers and yank and pull the bike in every direction in the name of wattage. That doesn't work on the road, so don't train yourself to do that. If what you're doing on the trainer would have you riding a straight line on the road, you're not putting large amounts of stress on your frame. If what you're doing on the trainer would yank your own front wheel out from under you, I would worry more about your dental work.

[Splash]

Great Posts guys!

Totally agree with you TI Designs.

kgreene10 - how do you perform intervals on rollers (HR or PM) and if PM how do you ensure a consistent regulation of resistance is applied to maintain the level of zoned power?


Splash

[shovelhd]

The E-Motion rollers have magnetic resistance that is adjustable. I prefer the trainer but the system works well. You can do full out sprints standing up on them.

Another option are trainers that do not use your rear wheel, such as the Lemond Revolution or Cyclops.

[malcolm]

A close friend, ironman triathlete does most of his training for the bike indoors on a computrainer. His specialized tri bike had a chain stay or seat stay fail. The shop attributed it to being fixed in the trainer, they did warranty the frame.

Who knows as I stated in my previous post I suspect thousands of hours are spent on carbon bikes in trainers around the country and I've not heard of an epidemic.

I'll say this for carbon. I'm an old guy and have never trusted carbon. I've always been suspicious of even my steel bikes with carbon forks in fact I got rid of most of them and rode steel with steel forks for years, although I do keep a spectrum Ti with a carbon fork. Well for the past several years I ride mostly mountain and beat the crap out of my bikes on carbon rims with carbon bars one even has carbon seat post and stem. I've been amazed at how strong it is. My next mtn bike will be carbon just trying to decide on which one.

[nicrump]

first off you're not "clamping a trainer to carbon dropouts". you're clamping a trainer to your QRs which are solidly backed up by the hub.

i have a customer who is about a hit 900,000 Computrainer kjs on her 8 year old Crumpton SL which has also seen well over 1.5M kjs on the road.

i have no problem with folks using my bikes on trainers as long as they are attaching them correctly.

[Splash]

Thanks you guys.

I guess then the next question is - what is the correct and incorrect way to mount bikes into the trainer without inducing fatigue / compression cracking in any part of the frame?


Splash

[kgreene10]

Great Posts guys!

Totally agree with you TI Designs.

kgreene10 - how do you perform intervals on rollers (HR or PM) and if PM how do you ensure a consistent regulation of resistance is applied to maintain the level of zoned power?


Splash

I use a PM. The rollers have three levels of magnetic resistance so I just set it to the level I think necessary for each workout. The gears give enough range to maintain wattage. Previously, I used Krietlers and created resistance the d fashioned way, with a towel. But the absence of fore-aft movement on those standard rollers meant that I couldn't sprint.

[Splash]

Thanks kgreene10.

Good to know.

I guess you can also perform FTP testing on the rollers as well?

What PM do you have?

On these rollers, how do you approach the fact that they are not ergo (with the trainer device regulating your resistance/power)? Is this a disadvantage for you?

How do you know what training zone you are riding in when on these rollers?

Krank

[kgreene10]

Thanks kgreene10.

Good to know.

I guess you can also perform FTP testing on the rollers as well?

What PM do you have?

On these rollers, how do you approach the fact that they are not ergo (with the trainer device regulating your resistance/power)? Is this a disadvantage for you?

How do you know what training zone you are riding in when on these rollers?

Krank

I just look at the wattage on my Garmin. PM is an old Quarq. I personally wouldn't do an ftp test on the rollers because toward the end of your eye-popping 20 mins, you will be so cross-eyed that you will either fall down or have to pay enough attention to not falling down that you aren't giving it your all. I have nearly wandered into traffic off a wide shoulder at the end of one of these deathly tests.

[Splash]

I just look at the wattage on my Garmin. PM is an old Quarq.

How do you compensate for the fact that the rollers are not an ERGO unit?

How well do you comply to your prescribed HIIT power zones and what do you do to maintain your levels without ERGO?


Splash

[kgreene10]

How do you compensate for the fact that the rollers are not an ERGO unit?

How well do you comply to your prescribed HIIT power zones and what do you do to maintain your levels without ERGO?


Splash

No clue. I just look at the wattage on my Garmin.

[nicrump]

power is power and it tells the story.

[kgreene10]

power is power and it tells the story.

Typically a sad, sad story.

[nicrump]

Typically a sad, sad story.

your story wasn't so sad the last time i rode with you.

[fiataccompli]

so, I'm hearing positive feedback from folks who use E-Motion rollers with the resistance and doing intervals? I've never had as easy (uh???) a time doing intervals on rollers as on a fixed trainer. I got a set of E-motions early spring this year, but it was just in time (literally, the next day) for me to have a really bad crash & by the time I was back in a training routine it was too nice outside for me to spend much time on any rollers, so for the time-being I haven't done much with resistance on them. Interesting.

Most recently, I've been using my TT bike (which is a carbon fiber Cervelo P2) on my fixed trainer. i always use the skewer that came with the trainer & my on-the-cuff engineering analysis tells me that unless I'm flailing wildly as addressed upthread, the load is carried on the purpose-built skewer and I'm not putting the bike through twists & forces it's not designed for. I could be wrong though.

[shovelhd]

I liked the E-Motion rollers but I don't have a good place to ride them so I went back to the trainer.

I would never do an FTP test in erg mode. It defeats the purpose.