what's your favorite, most supple tubular?

[Climb01742]

I'm trying to not be a wimp. My favorite wheels for ride quality are a pair of 32h Ambrosio Nemesis rims, DA hubs and Challenge P-R tires. But every time I ride them, I worry. My strategy for flats is my cellphone to the Mrs.

But I think it's time I manned-up. And learned how to glue or tape a tubie, and how to manage a flat on the road by myself.

My Challenge tires are wearing out. So as step 1 in becoming tubular proficient, what should I replace them with?

At the top of the heap is the FMB P-R, yes, for bad road quality and suppleness? Are there other tires in its league?

And as a related question, if I put Orange Seal in a really good, supple tubular, does it impact its ride/suppleness?

Thanks a lot, signed, a recovering wimp.

[marciero]

Nothing to recommend, but timely post for me. I was just looking at those FMB the other day. Cant see how you could go wrong or do better than that. Price is the thing. The "pro" version is $160 World Class Cycles compared to "only" $110 for non-pro

[christian]

Veloflex 25mm and Vittoria Corsa CX 25mm leave me satisfied every time.

[Dead Man]

Corsa Elites roll GREAT for the money, something less than $40/ea from Ribble, I think I usually pay.

If you cut one, you still angry... but not nearly as angry as you do when you cut a $120 tire.

[oldpotatoe]

First, learn how to use tubies, glue tubies, put on a spare tubie. It ain't a black art.

For Value-Vittoria hands down. 25c in Corsa CX or Corsa Elite. Yes, Veloflex are nice but not sure what you get for the $$. Big Samo for Dugast and FMB. Also cold vulcanized meaning tread is just glued on vs. a chemical bonding with Vittoria and Veloflex. I've seen more than a few big$ tubies that had tread coming off.

And yes, some Orange Seal in there, not a lot, will help seal small punctures and not effect the ride.

[Andreas]

Just ride them and fix if you have a flat, simple enough.
1. Seal / Pit stop
2. Yank and replace


My Challenge tires are wearing out. So as step 1 in becoming tubular proficient, what should I replace them with?
At the top of the heap is the FMB P-R, yes, for bad road quality and suppleness? Are there other tires in its league?


If money does not matter, get the FMBs. Veloflex are good, but have intermittent quality issues.
Vittoria are consistently good and provide most of the ride for a fraction of the cost.
Vittoria CX Corsa in 25 (great value for about $45 from the UK)
Vittoria Elites are fine as well

My favorite tubular is the Conti Competition with Latex tube in 27 - but they are hard to get.


And as a related question, if I put Orange Seal in a really good, supple tubular, does it impact its ride/suppleness?


Yes, I can feel 30ml sealant in a Challenge PR.
Just take 30ml with you as a fix.

[Climb01742]

First, learn how to use tubies, glue tubies, put on a spare tubie. It ain't a black art.

I agree. It's mostly just being uncomfortable with what you don't know and I learn best when I can see it done in person, hands on. Learning via Youtube is a bit of a challenge but I'm game.

[Climb01742]

Just ride them and fix if you have a flat, simple enough.
1. Seal / Pit stop
2. Yank and replace



If money does not matter, get the FMBs. Veloflex are good, but have intermittent quality issues.
Vittoria are consistently good and provide most of the ride for a fraction of the cost.
Vittoria CX Corsa in 25 (great value for about $45 from the UK)
Vittoria Elites are fine as well

My favorite tubular is the Conti Competition with Latex tube in 27 - but they are hard to get.



Yes, I can feel 30ml sealant in a Challenge PR.
Just take 30ml with you as a fix.

Thanks for the detailed breakdown.

[marciero]

Yes, Veloflex are nice but not sure what you get for the $$. Big Samo for Dugast and FMB. Also cold vulcanized meaning tread is just glued on vs. a chemical bonding with Vittoria and Veloflex. I've seen more than a few big$ tubies that had tread coming off.

I hear ya. Andreas seems to echo these sentiments also. And I love the Vittoria clincher. But I have to admit am very curious about FMB. That and the fact that I want wider tire...

Last and only time I had tubulars was over ten years ago with Reynolds deep V carbon and Tufos gassed up to 140 psi. Totally not what I am going for this time around.

[RyanH]

I'm switching over to Veloflex carbons from Continental Sprinters. I ride them daily and have solely ridden tubulars for the past 15k miles. The Sprinters are fine, but wow are the Veloflex nice. After getting about 3 or 4k miles on the front before flatting, I decided they were more durable than I thought.

[pbarry]

For Climb: Jump in with commitment. You've flirted enuf and are still riding tubies. Time for a ring. Get a new set and use the old ones for spares. Calling for a ride is not an option at this point; you're in too deep..

Fixing them is not a black art either. I used to repair 1-3 flats most nights as a messenger riding tubies. My coworkers had to patch 3-6 tubes a day riding clinchers. Back in the day and all that. I made more money and had a better time on the bike with tubulars. Hone your millinery skills.

Cheers

[fiamme red]

Dugast Paris Roubaix Silk or walk!

[saab2000]

Veloflex Carbon or Veloflex Criterium. I have traditionally been happy with the 22/23mm size. As far as I'm concerned, they are simply the nicest tires on the market and I am probably totally off my rocker but I think I can tell a difference in ride quality over all others, including the nice Vittoria tubulars.

Generally I've had luck with durability as well with Veloflex. And I've never had quality issues but rumors are out there that there have been some QC issues of late.

Another note, I think you're doing yourself a disservice with the Ambrosio rims. They're heavy and, IMHO, overrated. Strong, comfortable - yes. Heavy and sluggish? Yes too. I've had some and got rid of them. I think there are superior options from Campagnolo and Shimano, among others, for tubulars. Just my opinion, but I think you'd bring out even more from quality tires with a lighter, livelier set of wheels than you can get from Ambrosio Nemesis rims.

[Climb01742]

Saab, which Shimano rims would you recommend I check out?

[nrs5000]

If you get FMBs, note that they run large at least in the Roubaix line. 25s are closer to 26.5 and 27s are more like 29.

[Lionel]

If you go with FMB their road tubular is the comp cx. It is more subtle than the PR that is designed for .... PR.

[pjmsj21]

I am a tubular newbie with my first set of Veloflex Arenberg's and white I don't have anything to compare them against, I have to say that I m a fan. All of Old Potato's comments about tubulars pushed me over the edge and I am now a happy convert. Even my wife road just the front wheel and commented on how smooth it rose.

[saab2000]

Saab, which Shimano rims would you recommend I check out?

I don't own any wheels from Shimano, but I've heard good things about the C24 and especially the C35 wheels. They're not inexpensive but I would at least search for reviews of these.

You're probably aware that 10-speed wheels are not 11-speed compatible. But 11-speed wheels are 10-speed backwards compatible. Use caution. I don't know if you're using 10 or 11 speed shifting.

As much as I like handbuilt wheels, I think today's prebuilts have in many ways surpassed them. Unfortunately, to get tubular prebuilts you have to go to the top of the food chain and this gets expensive.

[oldpotatoe]

I don't own any wheels from Shimano, but I've heard good things about the C24 and especially the C35 wheels. They're not inexpensive but I would at least search for reviews of these.

You're probably aware that 10-speed wheels are not 11-speed compatible. But 11-speed wheels are 10-speed backwards compatible. Use caution. I don't know if you're using 10 or 11 speed shifting.

As much as I like handbuilt wheels, I think today's prebuilts have in many ways surpassed them. Unfortunately, to get tubular prebuilts you have to go to the top of the food chain and this gets expensive.

If you look at hubs, rims, spokes...not hard to match the 'qualities' of the pre builts, and be much less $. Plus not the pain of breaking a spoke in 2-3 years to find the manufacturer doesn't support the wheel any longer.

Even DT is 'rumored' to be developing a aluminum tubie rim. Biggest 'other' is lack of decent tubie rims.

[saab2000]

If you look at hubs, rims, spokes...not hard to match the 'qualities' of the pre builts, and be much less $. Plus not the pain of breaking a spoke in 2-3 years to find the manufacturer doesn't support the wheel any longer.

Even DT is 'rumored' to be developing a aluminum tubie rim. Biggest 'other' is lack of decent tubie rims.


I agree with the idea that proprietary stuff makes it a tough call..... I have Nucleons and when I had a set of Nucleon clinchers I broke a spoke and finding replacements was a PITA. And they're around. Some just don't exist at all.

As to the feel of the wheel? I would disagree. My Nucleon tubulars are a much nicer feeling wheel than my old Nemesis/Record hub combo.

If DT would produce a modern tubular rim I might be interested. Until then, my Nucleons will soldier on. I can't kill them and they have all the characteristics I like in a wheel. I do wish I could justify some Hyperons....... But at about $3000 for the set I just can't.

I got my first Nucleons about 10 years ago and the first ride I was kind of blown away. I had been riding handmade tubulars and there was a difference in liveliness and feel. I can only explain it in that Campagnolo engineered everything in that wheel specifically for that wheel. Rims are solid with offset drilling in the rear, hubs have larger d/s flanges. Spokes are solidly and anchored. I'm no engineer but I do believe these are better feeling wheels than comparable handbuilt wheels, at least to me. Whether they're actually better is another story. But they feel better to ride.

[summilux]

My Nucleon tubulars are a much nicer feeling wheel than my old Nemesis/Record hub combo.

Agree completely with Saab on this one. I have a set each of Nucleon and Neutron tubulars and they both have a livlier feeling (whatever the heck that is) than my Record hubs laced to Reflex or Reflex CD. Veloflex 25 is my fave, although I admit that I have not tried any Vittorias.

[cv1966]

Love this thread because, like the OP, I recently got my first set of road tubulars. I love the ride but have been nervous about when/if I flat. A rescue call home should be unnecessary for a simple flat tire. What's the opinion on using Pit Stop vs carrying a 2 oz bottle of Stans sealant? The wheels I'm riding have valve extenders with removable core

[oldpotatoe]

Love this thread because, like the OP, I recently got my first set of road tubulars. I love the ride but have been nervous about when/if I flat. A rescue call home should be unnecessary for a simple flat tire. What's the opinion on using Pit Stop vs carrying a 2 oz bottle of Stans sealant? The wheels I'm riding have valve extenders with removable core

Pre-goop the tires with Stan's or Orange Seal..then take a pre glued spare. I wrap up a small metal tire lever in the tire, along with $5..properly wrapped and into a Vecchio's sock, under the saddle secured with an old Campagnolo toe strap. Binda also can be used.

[summilux]

Pre-goop the tires with Stan's or Orange Seal..then take a pre glued spare. I wrap up a small metal tire lever in the tire, along with $5..properly wrapped and into a Vecchio's sock, under the saddle secured with an old Campagnolo toe strap. Binda also can be used.

I also wrap a small craft razor (the rectangular ones that come wrapped in carboard) in with the tire lever. This is just in case I can't pull the tire off intact. I put a $20 in. Life must be cheaper in the Republic.

[Avincent52]

I'm calling Christophe toe straps, Old Potatoe.
Sure the Bindas and the Campys are what you need for the final sprint at Eroica, but if you didn't keep a pair from back in the day, they're $150 a pair on the bay.
The Christophes will keep your tubular snug as a bug for $14, color matched or contrasted to the frame.

http://thumbs3.picclick.com/d/l400/pict/391144126258_/NOS-CHRISTOPHE-LEATHER-TOE-STRAPS-5-COLOURS.jpg

[thwart]

What's the opinion on using Pit Stop vs carrying a 2 oz bottle of Stans sealant?

The Pit Stop obviates the need for an additional CO₂ container and such. The stuff doesn't work for bigger holes, though… so for longer or 'unsupported' rides I also carry a spare tubular and the stuff needed to inflate it.

[Climb01742]

Just used Pit Stop for the first time. Worked quite well.

[RyanH]

Love this thread because, like the OP, I recently got my first set of road tubulars. I love the ride but have been nervous about when/if I flat. A rescue call home should be unnecessary for a simple flat tire. What's the opinion on using Pit Stop vs carrying a 2 oz bottle of Stans sealant? The wheels I'm riding have valve extenders with removable core

I haven't had good luck with pit stop. Out of 5 flats, only one was repaired. It works on pinhole but not much else in my experience. Stan's seems to work well and I keep half a bottle in my pocket.

[Climb01742]

I haven't had good luck with pit stop. Out of 5 flats, only one was repaired. It works on pinhole but not much else in my experience. Stan's seems to work well and I keep half a bottle in my pocket.

Out on the road, how do you use Stan's? What else do you need to bring with you? Thanks for the knowledge.

[teleguy57]

Out on the road, how do you use Stan's? What else do you need to bring with you? Thanks for the knowledge.

I carry a bottle of Stan's a valve core removal tool, and a frame pump. Sealant for sealing, valve core remover for removing the valve core, pump for inflation. (yup, Captain obvious here:))

I do prefer the pump to CO2 for lots of reasons, but I'm sure others have mini-pumps or CO2 that works for them.

I have one of the Stan's aluminum removal tools. I find it easier to use that the little plastic gizmo that come with many valve entenders, yet 's still small enough to tuck in a kit (or rubber band to the small sealant bottle).

I also carry a small flat-bladed screwdriver with the corners ground round in case I need to get the old tub off the rim. Allows me to get underneath the tire and work enough off until my pathetic grip can pull of the rest of the tire.

[Climb01742]

I carry a bottle of Stan's a valve core removal tool, and a frame pump. Sealant for sealing, valve core remover for removing the valve core, pump for inflation. (yup, Captain obvious here:))

I do prefer the pump to CO2 for lots of reasons, but I'm sure others have mini-pumps or CO2 that works for them.

I have one of the Stan's aluminum removal tools. I find it easier to use that the little plastic gizmo that come with many valve entenders, yet 's still small enough to tuck in a kit (or rubber band to the small sealant bottle).

I also carry a small flat-bladed screwdriver with the corners ground round in case I need to get the old tub off the rim. Allows me to get underneath the tire and work enough off until my pathetic grip can pull of the rest of the tire.

Thanks! I appreciate the Captain Obvious details, signed, Captain Clueless.;)

[jonnyBgood]

Well... I have four sets of wheels between three bikes and they are ALL tubulars.

I have Vittoria Corsa CX (two have 25c and the other has 23c) on three and the other I have Dugast Paris Roubaix (27c). I add some Stan's to each one and carry a Vittoria Pit Stop with me as well as a C02 inflator.

I ride a ton of dirt roads and besides the tires wearing from miles put on them I have never had an issue with flats. I'm 5'11" and weight between 185/190 and I have had two flats (knock on wood) in the last three years. I run my tires at around 105/120 depending on the ride.

[martl]

Loving my Veloflexes, all of them - SC (now "Sprinter") and Criterium.

I once gave Dugast Strada Silk a try. I would be hard pressed to find a difference in the way they ride to the Veloflexes, and after i flattened two of them on the same day i decided the premium was not worth it.

Conti Competitions are very close to the latex-tubed ones in their ride, but are more durable and less puncture-prone, so they would be the reasonable choice, but i'm not riding tubulars to be reasonable.

[oldpotatoe]

I also wrap a small craft razor (the rectangular ones that come wrapped in carboard) in with the tire lever. This is just in case I can't pull the tire off intact. I put a $20 in. Life must be cheaper in the Republic.

Used to be $1..inflation. I carry a cellie..don't really need the $ at all...maybe for a Cappuccino while I wait for a rescue(only twice in 30 years of tubulars).

[oldpotatoe]

I'm calling Christophe toe straps, Old Potatoe.
Sure the Bindas and the Campys are what you need for the final sprint at Eroica, but if you didn't keep a pair from back in the day, they're $150 a pair on the bay.
The Christophes will keep your tubular snug as a bug for $14, color matched or contrasted to the frame.

http://thumbs3.picclick.com/d/l400/pict/391144126258_/NOS-CHRISTOPHE-LEATHER-TOE-STRAPS-5-COLOURS.jpg

Gotta pay to play....