maltodextrin and creatine

[RobertP]

I'm thinking of using raw Maltodextrin as a drink mix and creatine with soy protein for a post workout drink. Does anyone have any experience with these? I'm trying to save a buck with the Maltodextrin (it's about 80% cheaper than say, hammer gel), and I'm simply inexperienced with creatine.

[dcotcamp]

I use maltodextrin for my on-bike drink mix (I add some flavoring, and some salt). As you say, it's -much- cheaper than the pre-made mixes.

I have no experience with creatine.

Dennis

[Needs Help]

I'm simply inexperienced with creatine.

Well Marc McGwire is an example. I think I read he has health problems now. I also think Outside magazine did a story where the author, who I believe was a cyclist/triathelete, went the steroid route and documented his experience.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . has nothing to do with steroids. It is not a hormone. It is instead one of the chemical components of the fuel creatine process for the muscles.

I took creatine while weightlifting seriously several years ago, loading at times and on maintenance at other times. It did indeed do what it promised, and is one of the very few supplements there is any sort of truly scientific for documenting its positive effects on strength.

Unfortunately, it also can create serious kidney problems if used in the long term. Creatine is converted into a chemical called creatinine in the muscles, but they can only use so much. The rest must be processed out by the kidneys and excreted as urine. Over time this can really mess up your kidneys. I stopped when my doctor filled me in on the long-term effects.

It’s just as well--it always upset my stomach with the runs and while it does increase lifting power about 6-10%, it does very little for endurance, which is what most cyclists really need.

I would advise against using it long term, though it can be beneficial when loading for the couple of weeks before a big event.

BBDave

[dirtdigger88]

Long and short of it, like BBDave says creatine is more of a power builder than endurance. Also caffiene I believe negates most of the benifits of it. Stay away from the lattes. i am always fearful of the wonder drugs that come across the market. Until I see long term results I stay away. cycling is about health, I would rater be slow and ride until I'm 100 yrs that be a ball of fire and burn out at 45.

Jason

[vaxn8r]

Dave has it right.

There is some data that creatine works in one isolated case. Repetitive, brief maximal efforts. eg. on the 10th 50-meter sprint, you might have a little more go in the tank. Otherwise, you're kidding yourself. It really has no application for 99.9% of cyclists and it can lead to dehydration and kidney problems. But it is not a steroid.

McGwire admitted to using androstendione, a steroid precursor. Hard to make judgments on health effects when you don't know all the details.

[pale scotsman]

I've used creatin in the past and it did help with muscle gains and ultimate strength. But.... the constant stomach aches and bloating just didn't cut it. Maybe because I'd just put a spoonfull in my mouth and chase it with beer caused the stomach ache.

When mountain biking season rolled around I'd get off the stuff. It may have been psychosomatic but I swear I'd get dehydrated real quick like.

Like BBD my doctor gave me a lecture on what I was doing to myself so I quit. Since my shoulder surgery 5 years ago I've not touched the stuff and focused on more aerobic activity. The only supplements I take now are a mutli-vitamin and cod liver oil pills.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . indicates loading of 20-25 grams daily for a 4-5 day period. Maintenance is 5-10 grams daily. A level teaspoon full is supposed to be about 5 grams.

My problem was that you are supposed to take it mixed with apple or cranberry juice or some other sugary juice to help the takeup. But I never found any juice I could down it with that did not cause some certain and rather immediate, ah, er, “abdominal discomfort“, if ya know whut ah mean! :eek:

Oddly, I read a very interesting story in Cycling+ a few months ago that recounted a research project that indicated very good results with low maintenance doses--only 2-5 grams per day--combined with Lipoic acid, which is usually taken as an antioxidant and has a reputation as one of the most potent of those.

Would this low dose eliminate the kidney danger for the long term? The story was less than authoritative on that score. But until that question is answered I will skip it for the same reason I don’t get my eyes lasered--I’ve only got one set of kidneys and replacements are VERY expensive!

Anyway, perhaps for competition where winning is everything--including the paycheck--then it’s worthwhile. But the gain I got was not great. Then I could manage 5 reps on bench press at 230, with a one rep Max at probably 250. Now I can do 200 for 4 reps with a probable Max about 220 . . . within the 5% gain promised, but the strain was really tearing up my joints. Just not worth it . . .

BBDave

[vaxn8r]

I've read literally dozens of studies on creatine. Many of them unfortunately pretty shoddy science. Don't believe any study that isn't corroborated by other's work.

The effects of creatine are measurable but marginal. Certainly not 5%. More like 1% on the very last of 10 sprints in a row. That's what most studies confirm. Absolutely nil for aerobic endurance. Having said all that there's a lot to be said for mind over matter. If you believe you can lift more, you'll train harder and you probably will. Even placebos work. That's a fact.

If you're a pure sprinter or power lifter it might make sense. Otherwise I'll maintain, the rest of us don't need it.

[Andreu]

Creatine is not a steriod. It can help with boosting power (I have heard)...I am not sure about the science behind these things, they work for some people and not for others. You have to try and experiment a bit. And I am not entirely sure, with a balanced diet and the carbos you should be taking as a cyclist, they will help you in long distance sport like cycling.
On the subject of Caffeine I had a strong cup of coffee the other day about 2 hours before a work out (1.5 hour chain gang) and I went like a badger. So coffee works for me sometimes....
A

[Too Tall]

Robert, practically speaking your plan to use a basic beer making ingrediant (MaltoDextran) is good. However you need to take some time figuring out how to mix it. The powders sold, typically are not optimal for putting in a bottle and just shaking it up...clump...clump...clump...get the picture? Once you figure out how to work with it, use only Soy for the protein source mixed with your maltodextran...this is for duing exercise. As a post ride recovery mix you can switch to Whey.

I'm not convinced you are on the right path based on expense alone. Look at what's in Sustained Energy and how it's typically used. The cost / bottle is not alot. Mostly folks will use only 2 scoops in a large bottle.

In my opinion the only thing a bike racer should use a bottle of Creatin for is a bookend! On a more interesting note...used out of protocol (for strength) creatin is a very very effective method to induce storage of cellular liquids. Whatzat mean???? Well, if you are clever and have experimented with it before and know your daily weight etc. etc. than used in moderation creatin might be a great way to delay cellular dehydration during a 2-3 hr. event where heat is a factor. BUT I'D NEVER TELL YOU THIS WORKS or recommend it even though for some odd reason works for me.

[merlinagilis]

If memory serves, creatine works to increase strength by causing your muscles to retain more water. Thats why the benefits go away when you stop taking it.
Ephedrine and Caffeine are the only two legal/over the counter supplements that I've ever noticed made a difference in the gym or on the bike, but I guess ephedrine is not being sold as much anymore.
My best gains were during a 8 week cycle of Winny V, but thats a different story!