Re: Crazy Pegoretti on craigslist

[azrouleur]

I am new to this site, but it was brought to my attention that a discussion had started about my Luigino for sale on Tucson Craigslist. I am unable to respond on that particular thread (for a month!) so I would like to respond here...

The price changed after it was brought to my attention by Dave at my LBS, and I meant to get around to it before any offers....unfortunately this raised some discussion. If you go to buy (and have to wait) for a Luigino you will begin to understand the value....and maybe you can find a NOS Campy SR group. Someone listed several other Pegoretti bikes that recently sold, but none of those were a Luigino or built with SR....comparing apples/oranges. A better comparison would perhaps be the Colnago Arabesque currently on Ebay.

Really enjoyed the comments as such a bike surely stirs the emotions!

- steve

[RoadWhale]

Beautiful bike! I'm 193cm tall so not quite a good fit for my riding needs but definitely worthy of day dreams.

[Louis]

To save others the trouble of searching for it, this is the thread in the Paceline Classifieds about the Peg in question:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=169236

[Dead Man]

I am new to this site, but it was brought to my attention that a discussion had started about my Luigino for sale on Tucson Craigslist. I am unable to respond on that particular thread (for a month!) so I would like to respond here...

The price changed after it was brought to my attention by Dave at my LBS, and I meant to get around to it before any offers....unfortunately this raised some discussion. If you go to buy (and have to wait) for a Luigino you will begin to understand the value....and maybe you can find a NOS Campy SR group. Someone listed several other Pegoretti bikes that recently sold, but none of those were a Luigino or built with SR....comparing apples/oranges. A better comparison would perhaps be the Colnago Arabesque currently on Ebay.

Really enjoyed the comments as such a bike surely stirs the emotions!

- steve

If you have something super unique that will only be truly appreciated by truly unique person with a truly unique budget for it, there's no point paying any attention to those who say "$6000 for an old steel bike w t f??"

But you definitely need to be OK with holding on to it for a long time, waiting for that truly unique buyer to happen along.

BUT.... aren't there brokers out there that specialize in connecting truly unique bikes with truly unique buyers? Maybe you've already got this listed via other avenues.... but I definitely wouldn't rely on just Craigslist (if you are)

[texbike]

I am new to this site, but it was brought to my attention that a discussion had started about my Luigino for sale on Tucson Craigslist. I am unable to respond on that particular thread (for a month!) so I would like to respond here...

The price changed after it was brought to my attention by Dave at my LBS, and I meant to get around to it before any offers....unfortunately this raised some discussion. If you go to buy (and have to wait) for a Luigino you will begin to understand the value....and maybe you can find a NOS Campy SR group. Someone listed several other Pegoretti bikes that recently sold, but none of those were a Luigino or built with SR....comparing apples/oranges. A better comparison would perhaps be the Colnago Arabesque currently on Ebay.

Really enjoyed the comments as such a bike surely stirs the emotions!

- steve

Hey Steve. That is a beautiful bike, and classic Super Record is exactly the way I would build one. However, let's be honest, used bikes RARELY bring the prices that they did when they were new. Market value is rarely tied to original cost. Even rare, highly desirable models tend to depreciate like a British SUV.

I personally felt that the original $4K asking price was a reach and the $6K definitely seems a bit of a dream. I'm of the opinion that it's a $3,000-$3500 bike on the high end. But hey, it's your bike and you have every right to ask what you want of it. Time will tell what the true market value is.

If you do want to maximize the $$$ on the bike, I would suggest taking the bike apart and selling the bits separately from the frameset.

Good luck with the sale!

Texbike

[azrouleur]

Texbike, only the crank and pedals have slight wear....the frame and all other parts are NEW. Have it listed on a couple other sites, but CL really is budget conscious. No hurry....no worry. The proper person will come along who may even roll along the Strade Bianchi...you know, the dirt roads of Tuscany!

[texbike]

Texbike, only the crank and pedals have slight wear....the frame and all other parts are NEW. Have it listed on a couple other sites, but CL really is budget conscious. No hurry....no worry. The proper person will come along who may even roll along the Strade Bianchi...you know, the dirt roads of Tuscany!

You're correct, CL really isn't the best place for such a fine steed unfortunately. If you would truly like to sell it or at least determine its true market value, I'd suggest posting it on ebay with a bunch of REALLY good pictures, detailed description, and a high and undisclosed reserve price. This would reach the broadest audience.

And yes, rolling the Strade Bianche on it would be sweet wouldn't it? :)

Texbike

[Anarchist]

I have a Luigino, mine is a custom built with Excell tubing.

Not even in my wildest dreams do I think someone would pay me $6,000 for what is, a used, bike.

[zmudshark]

Texbike, only the crank and pedals have slight wear....the frame and all other parts are NEW. Have it listed on a couple other sites, but CL really is budget conscious. No hurry....no worry. The proper person will come along who may even roll along the Strade Bianchi...you know, the dirt roads of Tuscany!

No kidding. You have tried for years to sell it at $4k, and you still have it. Someone shows interest at $4k and you raise the price to $6k.

I understand that it may be worth $4k, or $6k to you, but it seems as if you really don't want to sell it. I thought about the f/f for my wife years ago, but couldn't justify it, and in spite of what you may think, vintage Campy ain't worth $2k.

If you want to sell it, put it on eBay and see what you get. Open it to worldwide bidding.

Good luck on your sale, enjoy the free advertising on the most vibrant forum in the US, and welcome here. Hope you stay and contribute. I'd love to ride with you in the Fall Winter when I'm in AZ.

[zmudshark]

I have a Luigino, mine is a custom built with Excell tubing.

Not even in my wildest dreams do I think someone would pay me $6,000 for what is, a used, bike.

TMB has an Excell framed, double plated fork crown Luigino. I'm pretty sure he would agree, as much as he loves that bike.

[Louis]

It's pretty simple - an owner can always decide what something is worth to him or her, but a seller can't determine what something is worth on the open market. It takes a willing buyer to do that.

[BobbyJones]

Sure is a nice bike. And is almost my size. hmmmmm....

[azrouleur]

Zmudshark,

Have you done any riding in AZ? Sedona is great most of Dec...and nearby Mingus mtn climbs to 7,000'.

[zmudshark]

Zmudshark,

Have you done any riding in AZ? Sedona is great most of Dec...and nearby Mingus mtn climbs to 7,000'. I spend 6 mos of the year in AZ. The good 6 mos.

[azrouleur]

...and where do you like to ride?

[Aaron O]

For when you want maximum eBay value -----> eBay

For when you're selling a bike for less than $500 ----> craigslist

For when you don't actually want to sell your bike ----> eBay pricing on Craigslist

[jr59]

For when you want maximum eBay value -----> eBay

For when you're selling a bike for less than $500 ----> craigslist

For when you don't actually want to sell your bike ----> eBay pricing on Craigslist

pretty funny stuff, but only b/c it's true.

You did forget one; Set a high price, when someone calls with $$$$, change price to higher price.

BTW; I have zero problem with the owner selling his bike for whatever he wishes. BUT, If you run an ad and say it's priced at X. Then sell it at X, not, opps I changed my mind and now it's 2k more.

[blessthismess]

Careful talking about this too much. I'd hate to drive the price up to 8K ;)

[zmudshark]

...and where do you like to ride?

On the road ;)

I'm in the PV area.

[texbike]

Careful talking about this too much. I'd hate to drive the price up to 8K ;)

Aw, c'mon now. Let's be nice. I think the basic points have been made.

Steve, welcome to the forum. I hope that you decide to stick around. It's apparent that you have good taste in bikes. Plus, Ali vouches for you which is a great endorsement. There are a lot of great people that hang out here .

Texbike

[blessthismess]

I kid, I kid.

Tex you're right. All jest's aside: Welcome.

This is a great place full of nice and helpful people.

[thirdgenbird]

This is nothing. If I were "forced" to list my Tommasini, the price would be far higher.

[azrouleur]

Well I am glad the discussion has (perhaps!) come full circle , I really did not expect such strong opinions from those who weren't even interested in making an offer! But I do appreciate the input...

So, ride on!

[OtayBW]

Well I am glad the discussion has (perhaps!) come full circle , I really did not expect such strong opinions from those who weren't even interested in making an offer! But I do appreciate the input...

So, ride on!
I fail to see why opinions are invalid unless one is making an offer. Good luck with the sale. Hope you get everything you're looking for.

[mg2ride]

6K for a used bike with down tube shifters?

I'll pass

[oldpotatoe]

Well I am glad the discussion has (perhaps!) come full circle , I really did not expect such strong opinions from those who weren't even interested in making an offer! But I do appreciate the input...

So, ride on!

I had a DeRosa 1973 replica, with older SR stuff on it in the shop window..If anybody asked what the price was, I'd always say, "$5000", assuming they would just smile, until a guy said, "OK, I'll take it". Some think it's 'worth it', some don't. Whatever the market will bear. It's more than a 'used bike with downtube shifter', for those who 'know'. This is a used bike with downtube shifters..

[Louis]

This is a used bike with downtube shifters..

PM sent.

[Aaron O]

I had a DeRosa 1973 replica, with older SR stuff on it in the shop window..If anybody asked what the price was, I'd always say, "$5000", assuming they would just smile, until a guy said, "OK, I'll take it". Some think it's 'worth it', some don't. Whatever the market will bear. It's more than a 'used bike with downtube shifter', for those who 'know'. This is a used bike with downtube shifters..
At $5,000 of my money it had better be a real 60s De Rosa with the right bits.

[DCilliams]

PM sent.

I nearly spit out my lunch. That was hilarious. Great wits on this forum.

[TimD]

1. 'What do you care what other people think?' - Feynman

2. 'The price of an item is exactly what it will fetch.' - Morgan

3. 'There's an a$$ for every seat.' - a mechanic specializing in high-end German sports cars

[RedRider]

If you don't get the difference between a Pegoretti and a basic steel frame, even if it's also made with Columbus tubing, you certainly will not appreciate the Luigino nor the double crown fork (no longer made) featured on the one the OP is selling. The value on a bike like this is very subjective but there are not many new or used ones available so if you want one you will probably pay the offer.
A Pegoretti painted Silca pump is probably not on your shopping list either. :)

http://silca.cc/collections/silca-artist-edition-dario-pegoretti

[beeatnik]

The OP should have a 5 minute conversation with a real estate appraiser. Then google Mario Confente.

[thirdgenbird]

I had a DeRosa 1973 replica, with older SR stuff on it in the shop window..If anybody asked what the price was, I'd always say, "$5000", assuming they would just smile, until a guy said, "OK, I'll take it". Some think it's 'worth it', some don't. Whatever the market will bear. It's more than a 'used bike with downtube shifter', for those who 'know'. This is a used bike with downtube shifters..

Let's looks at this another way. $6000 will also buy you this:
http://www.cyclescamellini.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/trek-emonda-slr-6-581x326.png

Stock trek and 6800
Rare pegoretti and new super record

give me the peg every time.

bicycles in this price range are rarely about the value, but if you want to talk value, I bet the pegoretti retains its value better than the trek.

[Anarchist]

Let's looks at this another way. $6000 will also buy you this:
http://www.cyclescamellini.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/trek-emonda-slr-6-581x326.png

Stock trek and 6800
Rare pegoretti and new super record

give me the peg every time.

bicycles in this price range are rarely about the value, but if you want to talk value, I bet the pegoretti retains its value better than the trek.

Take another look at the CL ad.

[thirdgenbird]

Take another look at the CL ad.

The seller says only the crank and pedals are used. If true, that means the brakes, levers, shifters, derailleurs, hubs, and bottom bracket ar new. Not current production, but unused.

[Anarchist]

The seller says only the crank and pedals are used. If true, that means the brakes, levers, shifters, derailleurs, hubs, and bottom bracket ar new. Not current production, but unused.

I have boxes of 30 year old Super Record stuff in my garage. If that stuff is now worth serious coin, I'm going to retire.

My view; it's a nice bike. I have one and like it just fine. It's a nice bike with old components. It ain't $6,000 worth.

[bfd]

The seller says only the crank and pedals are used. If true, that means the brakes, levers, shifters, derailleurs, hubs, and bottom bracket ar new. Not current production, but unused.

According to the ad, the seller appears to be selling first gen Super Record (SR) which spanned from 1970s-1984, i.e., friction downtube shifters, single pivot brakes, freewheel hubs, etc. . If you consider that to be the group you want and combined with this fairly rare Peg frameset, then it's the deal!

If you're thinking it is the later SR group from about 2010 to present, then you may want to reconsider. Good Luck!

[thirdgenbird]

I have boxes of 30 year old Super Record stuff in my garage. If that stuff is now worth serious coin, I'm going to retire.

My view; it's a nice bike. I have one and like it just fine. It's a nice bike with old components. It ain't $6,000 worth.

I didn't say it was worth serious coin. I said it was new (as in not used) and I would rather ride it than 6800.

the trek is a nice bike with modern components, but in my opinion it ain't worth $6000. I wouldn't spend $2000 on it but I don't care if people do spend $6000 on it.

According to the ad, the seller appears to be selling first gen Super Record (SR) which spanned from 1970s-1984, i.e., friction downtube shifters, single pivot brakes, freewheel hubs, etc. . If you consider that to be the group you want and combined with this fairly rare Peg frameset, then it's the deal!

If you're thinking it is the later SR group from about 2010 to present, then you may want to reconsider. Good Luck!

I know what I'm looking at. I'm not in the market, but I wouldn't criticize someone for choosing to spend their money on It.

[jr59]

If you don't get the difference between a Pegoretti and a basic steel frame, even if it's also made with Columbus tubing, you certainly will not appreciate the Luigino nor the double crown fork (no longer made) featured on the one the OP is selling. The value on a bike like this is very subjective but there are not many new or used ones available so if you want one you will probably pay the offer.
A Pegoretti painted Silca pump is probably not on your shopping list either. :)

http://silca.cc/collections/silca-artist-edition-dario-pegoretti

Amen to this!

BTW: I have not figured in my mind how to justify a pump like the ones linked. Heck, I can't reason myself into just the pump itself. But I do know that I sure do want one.

[Peter B]

There are options in the marketplace.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=169499

[thirdgenbird]

There are options in the marketplace.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=169499

For those select people that can ride any frame size.


Both are seriously cool rides. I hope they find new homes.

[Peter B]

For those select people that can ride any frame size.


Both are seriously cool rides. I hope they find new homes.

Sizing at the extremes is always an issue; fewer to choose from for the buyer, fewer prospects for the seller. I think the 58 is priced more realistically than the 51, assuming both sellers actually want to sell their bike and are not simply holding out for that one *perfect* buyer to someday come along.

The market will ultimately decide.

Regardless, I concur with your hopeful sentiment.

[azrouleur]

5 minute conversation with a real estate appraiser?

Google Mario Confetti?

Hmmm...what will this serve?! What could it mean....

[BobbyJones]

I don't want to offend anyone, but its not even in the same class.

There are options in the marketplace.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=169499

[jr59]

I don't want to offend anyone, but its not even in the same class.

why? I'm not a player on either, but I would like to know the difference.

[Aaron O]

why? I'm not a player on either, but I would like to know the difference.

I'm not that knowledgeable about Pegs, but the CL one is cleaner I guess. It seems to have a few flourishes.

Personally I prefer the one on the classifieds because it doesn't have the "why would you do that" parts mix.

Updating a vintage bike - has its place
Retrodating a bike - makes absolutely no sense to me

The group isn't NOS if mounted.

[thirdgenbird]

Maybe not NOS but still new. No different than the components hanging on a new bike at the local shop. Completely different than a ragged out 30 year old group.

[jr59]

Maybe not NOS but still new. No different than the components hanging on a new bike at the local shop. Completely different than a ragged out 30 year old group.

Then the question becomes, do you want to ride it or hang it on the wall?

[Joachim]

Why would someone come on here just to justify the price of their CL posting and then go into discussion about it? Because it's all about the money for them.

[Aaron O]

.

[Aaron O]

Then the question becomes, do you want to ride it or hang it on the wall?

The follow up question is would hanging a weird retro dated bike make sense.

[thirdgenbird]

Then the question becomes, do you want to ride it or hang it on the wall?

sure, but you can say that about anything. What happens to the bike after purchase doesn't impact the condition of the parts prior to purchase. The condition of the components can impact the experience after the purchase. I would rather have the 30 year old worn out parts hanging on the wall. Put the low milage stuff on my rider.

The follow up question is would hanging a weird retro dated bike make sense.

Not to me, but neither does purchasing a $6000 trek so what do I know? Lots of people are doing it.

[BobbyJones]

why? I'm not a player on either, but I would like to know the difference.

Paint. Some would call it a patina on the 58. Im not that romantic.

Grouppo. SR in mint to NOS. Which the 58 sure doesn't have.

Sure, they're both Pegorettis. But from overall condition and build, there's no comparison.

[Dead Man]

If the 51 were mine, it would look just like the 58 by the end of summer. :)

[choke]

Paint. Some would call it a patina on the 58. Im not that romantic.

Grouppo. SR in mint to NOS. Which the 58 sure doesn't have.

Sure, they're both Pegorettis. But from overall condition and build, there's no comparison.It's funny how two people can look at the same things and see them so differently. I much prefer the paint on the 58 even with the flaws. While I'd rather have the old Super Record group it's not that big of a factor to me. However, the lugs on the 58 easily make it much more desirable IMO....if I could fit the 58 I'd have already listed other bikes for sale.

[BobbyJones]

It's funny how two people can look at the same things and see them so differently.

I'm with you on that. I dig the paint and lugs, but the actual condition is a little rustic for me at that price point. Here's where personal value threshold comes into play... if it was my size, i'd be in at around 2k!

[Peter B]

I'm with you on that. I dig the paint and lugs, but the actual condition is a little rustic for me at that price point. Here's where personal value threshold comes into play... if it was my size, i'd be in at around 2k!

Simply comparing the two under discussion, a Joe Bell paint job runs ~$1k. Call it $1,400 in two-tone. Is the SR group worth ~$1,400 more than the late 90's Record? For sure there is a buyer out there for each. Somewhere. Depends on whether the seller(s) are listing to sell or to fish.

[hockeybike]

All this focus on one or two silly outliers in the market for used bikes. Bleh, ignore em. Fortunately for buyers, the seller's price and his bike are so far away from the market that they won't move the market.

Guess we all get to talk about something and gasp, or e-gasp. Think of how many bikes sell and how quickly they sell, then think of this one. Somehow, this silly bike will be on peoples' minds when thinking of the online bike market. In reality, it's got nothing do with the used/new/NOS/something was once NOS bike market and everything to do with a single dude.

And so, we have a thread about a single dude, and how right or wrong he is, as opposed to about a bike. Maybe that isn't all bad. The people on the bike should hope to be more interesting than the bike they ride.

[Louis]

The people on the bike should hope to be more interesting than the bike they ride.

This is an interesting question. Some things (tubes, rim tape, brake pads, etc) are purchased almost exclusively for what they do or how they do it. Others, like fancy bikes, cars, etc are presumably also purchased for what they do, but what they are and what they tell others about the owner is certainly an important part of the equation.

Perhaps a Responsorium is better than a basic steel frame, but I'm guessing that at least half, if not more, of the value of that frame to the owner is in what that frame tells other people about him/her, or alternatively, how it makes the owner feel about himself.

In some cases the bike makes the rider more interesting...

[jr59]

It's funny how two people can look at the same things and see them so differently. I much prefer the paint on the 58 even with the flaws. While I'd rather have the old Super Record group it's not that big of a factor to me. However, the lugs on the 58 easily make it much more desirable IMO....if I could fit the 58 I'd have already listed other bikes for sale.

I agree with this 100%

Simply comparing the two under discussion, a Joe Bell paint job runs ~$1k. Call it $1,400 in two-tone. Is the SR group worth ~$1,400 more than the late 90's Record? For sure there is a buyer out there for each. Somewhere.

for about 1000, there are more than a few painters out there, that can do a VERY good job painting a frame/fork. So if we go by asking price, then both frames are very close to the same price. Except you get a group set and wheels with the 58 for 200 more. I'll take the 58 b/c of the lugs. so whats the point?

I already have an ELOS Bianchi so even as nice as these forks are. I'll hold what I have. And yes I will assume that both of these 2 bikes ride very well indeed.

[earlfoss]

Not my bag at all. Different strokes for different folks.

[hockeybike]

This is an interesting question. Some things (tubes, rim tape, brake pads, etc) are purchased almost exclusively for what they do or how they do it. Others, like fancy bikes, cars, etc are presumably also purchased for what they do, but what they are and what they tell others about the owner is certainly an important part of the equation.

Perhaps a Responsorium is better than a basic steel frame, but I'm guessing that at least half, if not more, of the value of that frame to the owner is in what that frame tells other people about him/her, or alternatively, how it makes the owner feel about himself.

In some cases the bike makes the rider more interesting...

I think, or hope at the least, that the causality is a little off in this statement. The bike may indicate a more interesting rider, but beyond the decision to purchase said bike and components, the bike shouldn't do much to make the rider more interesting.

Unless, the rider sees the bike and decides he or she is more interesting based on owning said bike.

It's a hobby, have fun, do you. But, the idea that simply owning a bike makes you more interesting? Well, there's plenty of boring people in interesting clothes. And plenty of interesting people in interesting clothes. And plenty of interesting people in boring clothes. And plenty of boring people in boring clothes.

Probably just an indicator, but, who knows -maybe owning the good does change one's outlook on life.

[Louis]

I think, or hope at the least, that the causality is a little off in this statement.

Some of my statements there were tongue-in-cheek, but I'm pretty sure that some bikes are more of a status symbol than others.

[azrouleur]

Building bikes, starting with the frame and then selecting components that compliment that particular frame and the rider, has been a passion of mine over the years. From racing to touring I built them starting with TREK brazed steel frames in the 90's, then more than a dozen DAVE MOULTON beauties...a few Italian models...and this beautiful Pegoretti. I did not come on this site to sell, only to clarify some interest...and there are those who can appreciate it for what IT is...simply a bike.

[azrouleur]

...actually mid-80's for the TREK bikes.