Flydhest , welcome to tandeming

[Smiley]

Any ride report you wish to file, I hope there were no fights on the maiden voyage :)

[Too Tall]

On their first long ride......

I was sitting on the porch reading the paper and lovey Queen arrives with Fly and the Doc on TANDEM!!!! What a beauty...the tandem ain't bad either ;)

Nice bike, no GREAT bike. Gorgeous silver metal flake CoMotion. The both of them are soooooo happy.

Fly stopped by to borrow more bike tools so he can hack the steerer tube to a more reasonable length. Gee, this is a nice thing.

[zap]

Cool.

When are we getting together for a nice CoMo tandem ride.

[Serotta PETE]

Smiley, sounds like I now have a faster way to get up the hill - - I will sit on the back of the co-mo.


Mr Fly - - - post pictures of your new rig with the lovely Dr. on it (and you naturally)


PETE

[Bradford]

Fly-dude, welcome to the club. We have loved our tandem more than we thought possible. In fact, we took our first triple ride last week with my little boy still in utero. :banana: :banana: :banana:

And you picked the right bike, we love our Co-Motion. It is the best bike I've ever owned. And I'd say that even if my bride and I were not on the 2005 Co-Motion catalog cover.

[RichardSeton]

So, you're the Co-Motion cover shot! I thought that was such a great photo. Technical quality (on the cover anyway) was iffy, but the atmosphere was priceless.


My wife and ride tandem a lot - almost 50% of my total miles, and I bike commute. I wouldn't have it any other way. We just have the greatest time!

We own a Santana Team Scandium.


Fly-dude, welcome to the club. We have loved our tandem more than we thought possible. In fact, we took our first triple ride last week with my little boy still in utero. :banana: :banana: :banana:

And you picked the right bike, we love our Co-Motion. It is the best bike I've ever owned. And I'd say that even if my bride and I were not on the 2005 Co-Motion catalog cover.

[don'TreadOnMe]

Another Co-Motion owner here, in my/our case, a light-blue Periscope w/26 inch wheels, straight bars, DX platforms, and Paul's Thumbies.

Mostly ridden w/my 6 yr-old daughter, who is fully into it. We put on some backpacks, go shopping, exploring, onroad and offroad, etc.
Put another strong guy on there and look out! It is definitely a rocket.

It's a bike I won't get rid of, that's for sure.

The time you spend w/the ones you love:
PRICELESS.

don'TreadOnMe

[Bradford]

Technical quality (on the cover anyway) was iffy, but the atmosphere was priceless.

My cousin took that picture on my Aunt's crappy old digital camara, so the resolution was pretty low. We had several medium format pictures from the official photographer, but the folks at Co-Motion loved the look on my wife's face and decided to go with that. I think the the way the low res blurs out everthing outside of the focus makes the picture look cool. But then again, when it comes to pictures of my wife/stoker, I'm hardly unbiased. :D

To bad they couldn't have used the airbrush on the ugly dude up front.

[davids]

Fly-dude, welcome to the club. We have loved our tandem more than we thought possible. In fact, we took our first triple ride last week with my little boy still in utero. :banana: :banana: :banana:

And you picked the right bike, we love our Co-Motion. It is the best bike I've ever owned. And I'd say that even if my bride and I were not on the 2005 Co-Motion catalog cover.
Wow! A celebrity!

Seriously, it's a great shot, and I'm glad to know the guy behind the modelling career. I agree with Co-Motion - Your wife couldn't possibly look happier or more full of joy!

And congrats on the upcoming stoker!

[flydhest]

So here goes. We got the bike last Tuesday; excitement ran high. Tuesday evening I had it in the backyard, twirling some allen wrenches to put the handlebars in place. The good Doctor, who's perfect in all other ways, decided that the perfect display of enthusiasm would be to turn her ankle on the back step--no ride for us that night. Friday, the swelling was down enough for us to take it for a couple laps around the block to check the fit. She needs wider bars . . . or more accurately, my (ahem) musculature in the posterior necessitated wider stoker bars. Other than that, the fit is pretty good. Swapped out 46 Salsa MotoAce Bell Laps from my 'cross bike and let it sit because it was raining so much on Saturday. Sunday was the first real ride. 26 miles in Rock Creek Park. Ran into the Queen and ended up at Casa TooTall to retrieve a tool so I could get the steerer cut down. Yesterday, the Doctor and I ditched work early and did some riding around the Park and up to my uncle's house (next to the Carter Baron for you locals) and back and forth, hither and yon, prolly ~10 miles all told, but if you had been tracking us from a helicopter, you'd have thought we were drunk riding in loops and circles.

Ride report: me likey-likey. The sum total of tandeming we've done was a short ride on Smiley's a couple years ago and test rides at a shop we decided not to buy from because they were azzholes. That said, I'm getting the hang of controlling the thing and moderate speed descents ~35-40 have been fun so far. The Doctor wants to go faster. The Co-Mo is not as rigid as the Cannondale we test rode, which, for the unitiated, makes the Co-Mo a bit more nervous. Not as much as the Santana, however. At speed, however, the differences end and the Co-Mo felt so good, sure, solid, that I can't believe it. Once the Doctor and I get into our rhythm, I'm sure it will go from feeling good at low speeds to feeling great.

We decided on our very first ride to try to get out of the saddle and have been practicing on each successive ride. It works fine as long as we each concentrate. A few months, I'm sure it will be second nature.

Complaints: none really. The bike has 105 and I'm getting used to using Shimano shifters. A bit of a giggle more than anything as I have to remind myself that they work differently. Since there won't be racing or the need for instant shifting under pressure, I can't imagine that the components will matter at all for our enjoyment.

I have to get used to the gearing, however. It is a triple with a big ole mtn bike cassette in back. The small chainring will likely never get used unless we are in the moutains. The hard part so far is that I always know what gear I'm in on my road bike by feel and I haven't mastered that yet with the tandem. We'll see.

The Doctor seems to be completely in love with tandeming. I like it, she loves it. I think my affinity will continue to grow as we get better at it and are working against each other.

So far, we're using mtb. pedals and wheels on the logic that rides will more likely involve walking and such.

[zap]

Sounds like the two of you are having great fun.

I would recommend that you ditch the mtb cassette and put on some road gears like 12-25 or 12-27. What size are your front rings?

[manet]

speaking of musculature _ burnt ends.

[davids]

A couple questions...

Model? You mentioned mtb wheels - Are you running 26" wheels?

Did you need custom? I know the Doc is on the petite side (I've seen pics of her Concours) and that you're not.

My wife and I bat the tandem idea around, but I don't know that it's going anywhere. A friend of a friend has offered to let us try their 20 year old Santana, and we should definitely give it a go. Maybe once our daughter's grown we'll have enough time to make it feasible...

[chrisroph]

Tandem riding is a blast. The fastest race I've ever done was a crit on a tandem, where we averaged 30mph.

[flydhest]

Zap,
53-42-30. Yeah, I reckon I'll be replacing the cassette, but it goes from 11-32, so what I'm giving up is finer gradations between gears, not top end. When things wear, I can imagine a slightly bigger big ring if the Doctor and I both stay in reasonable shape.
and yeah, we're having fun. A few more rides and I think we'll be able to ride with others around, but in the short term, we're playing it cautious when it comes to riding with others.

davids,
Primera c.f. http://www.co-motion.com/Primera.html
The cassette is a mtb cassette, but it's got 700 wheels. It is not custom, it's the 23/18 frame. Because my seatpost is slid out a bit, it reduces her effective top tube, so the longer top tube in back was necessary. Co-Mo and iirc Cannondale have fairly generous stoker TTs. We couldn't fit a stock Santana. The Doctor is 5'5" so she's not that vertically challenged, but I like to describe her has having a long and elegant torso to avoid being smacked for saying she has short legs. She rides a 49 or 50 road bike. I'm 6'2" and ride a 60 with a 60 TT. The other nice thing about tandems with generous stoker TTs is that the stem is adjustable, so you can always shorten the reach, you just can't go longer than what's there.

[Keith A]

And you picked the right bike, we love our Co-Motion. It is the best bike I've ever owned. And I'd say that even if my bride and I were not on the 2005 Co-Motion catalog cover.Got any pictures to share?

Congrats flydhest! I think I need to get my wife on one as it seems like it could be a lot of fun.

[Bradford]

We decided on our very first ride to try to get out of the saddle and have been practicing on each successive ride. It works fine as long as we each concentrate. A few months, I'm sure it will be second nature.

We had trouble at first because I was trying to keep the bike steady when we were out of the saddle. Once I started to rock the bike back and forth like I do on a single, getting into a rhythm standing was not problem at all. Just make sure you talk a lot and say things like "ready to stand? 1,2,3,up." The more you talk, the easier it is. This is why we don't ride without our Tandem Talk. Being able to talk without shouting and being able to hear the other person eliminates most of the problems on a tandem. (Just be warned, if you almost dump the tandem coming down a mountain pass at 50 MPH, the amplified scream you hear in your Tandem Talk will be imprinted on you brain forever).


The hard part so far is that I always know what gear I'm in on my road bike by feel and I haven't mastered that yet with the tandem.

Get a flightdeck, problem solved.

So far, we're using mtb. pedals and wheels on the logic that rides will more likely involve walking and such.

Don't ever go to road pedals. Eventually you are going to have to do an emergency foot on the ground at a sudden stop and you will be glad you had shoes with a nice grippy sole. A tandem is a big bike to keep up, especially if you stoker still has her feet clipped in and only one foot out of four is on the ground to keep it upright.

[Bradford]

Got any pictures to share?


No problem, this is my favorite picture I've ever had. We have the catalog cover framed and look at it every day.

This was the shot on the cover. I'll send you the PDF if you want to see the whole catalog.

As far as I'm concerned, the most beautiful bride to ever clip into a tandem! She had a two piece dress and was able to slip off the real bottom and replace it with a wedding skort and some shorts. We both slipped on our cycling shoes and off we went, complete with just married sign and dragging some water bottles behind us.

Limo? We dont' need no stinkin' limo.

[Keith A]

Bradford -- Oh my gosh, what an awesome picture!!! That is just too cool. Thanks for sharing that with us. BTW, yes I'd like to get the PDF version of this catalog -- you can send this to dkarbuckle@yahoo.com

[davids]

davids,
Primera c.f. http://www.co-motion.com/Primera.html
The cassette is a mtb cassette, but it's got 700 wheels. It is not custom, it's the 23/18 frame. Because my seatpost is slid out a bit, it reduces her effective top tube, so the longer top tube in back was necessary. Co-Mo and iirc Cannondale have fairly generous stoker TTs. We couldn't fit a stock Santana. The Doctor is 5'5" so she's not that vertically challenged, but I like to describe her has having a long and elegant torso to avoid being smacked for saying she has short legs. She rides a 49 or 50 road bike. I'm 6'2" and ride a 60 with a 60 TT. The other nice thing about tandems with generous stoker TTs is that the stem is adjustable, so you can always shorten the reach, you just can't go longer than what's there.
That 23/18 ("large/small") frame is a great idea as a standard size! I'm 5'9" and my wife's 5'3" - I think we'd end up on a small or medium.

When I fantasize about buying a tandem, I always end up looking at the next model up in the Co-Motion line, the Speedster. But the only difference (aside from moving up a level in componentry) seems to be the "air-hardened" Chro-Mo vs. plain ol' Chro-Mo. Better to spend the extra grand on S&S couplers, atyo?

[flydhest]

Bradford,
Yep, standing is just about practice and getting into the groove. TooTall gave some verbal pointers (over a glass of scotch iirc) and they are working out. Flightdeck??? An insult to my honor, sir! I like to do things the old-fashioned, manly (read thick-skulled) way. Seriously, I like getting to know bikes well enough that I have the feel. My coach back when I raced would every so often roll up next to you and ask what gear you're in. If you got it wrong or looked down to answer, you had to lead out all the sprints that day. The mentality sorta stuck.

davids,
I don't think the frame upgrade is worth it, personally. YMMV, but for me, it's about together time on a bike and "fast" or "light" are in different scales on the tandem that I don't worry about the same things I do on a single. A good ole steel frame and fork seems just what fit the bill unless and until we become crazy about it and race or some-such. Couplers, on the other hand, seem like a great idea. We didn't get them, but it was a toss up and we decided to spend the extra dough on other stuff. Oh, the other thing was that I just liked having a steel fork and steerer tube. Lots of me knows that carbon is great. I have carbon on my Legend. Nevertheless, when my size and weight was affecting my wife's safety, I became more cautious. Irrationally so, perhaps, and I won't try to justify more than that.

Keep in mind, everyone knows how much tandem experience I have, so my opinion might be worth poo.

If there's a shop near you that has tandems, ride a couple and then spend some time looking at the specs and measurements. If you like thinking about geometry and fitting, it will fall into place quickly. That such a long top tube was good for us, indeed necessary, was surprising to me until I realized that my saddle was doing a lot of cramping of her space. If you have friends nearby that ride tandems and can borrow one, it's worth it. Smiley and his lovely bride lent us theirs and it stuck in the Doctor's head ever since.

[Bradford]

When I fantasize about buying a tandem, I always end up looking at the next model up in the Co-Motion line, the Speedster. But the only difference (aside from moving up a level in componentry) seems to be the "air-hardened" Chro-Mo vs. plain ol' Chro-Mo. Better to spend the extra grand on S&S couplers, atyo?

When we bought our Primara, the only differnce was 105 vs. Ultegra. After the couplers, the S&S cases, and the padding, we were way over our budget, so my wife vetoed the Ultegra.

Much to my dismay, the 105 has been fine, and we have about 5K miles on it. (I hate it when she is right).

The other problem for me was that I loved the name Speedster and was not so crazy about Primera, so I had mine made without a model decal on it and it's just the Co-Motion to us. Actually, more often than not, we call it Cliffy, short for Clifford the Big Red Bike.

[Bradford]

Flightdeck??? An insult to my honor, sir!
When I ride, I'm lucky to keep the rubber side down, so I have no such standards. I have enough on my mind when I'm up front on the big bike, I try to make things easy when I can. But I do admire your purity of soul.

Keep in mind, everyone knows how much tandem experience I have, so my opinion might be worth poo.
So far, you seem to be right on to me, and I'm 5K miles ahead of you.

If you have friends nearby that ride tandems and can borrow one, it's worth it.
Right on here, Senior Fly. Tandem folks tend to be a friendly lot, that shouldn't be a problem. :banana:

[scrooge]

Thanks for the report! My wife and I are going to get fitted for our custom Primera this weekend. Can't wait.. (but I guess I'll have to--about six weeks from what I hear).

Curious--did you try to set up your fit on the tandem pretty much the same as your road bike(s)? Stoker too?

[manet]

No problem, this is my favorite picture I've ever had. We have the catalog cover framed and look at it every day.

This was the shot on the cover. I'll send you the PDF if you want to see the whole catalog.

As far as I'm concerned, the most beautiful bride to ever clip into a tandem! She had a two piece dress and was able to slip off the real bottom and replace it with a wedding skort and some shorts. We both slipped on our cycling shoes and off we went, complete with just married sign and dragging some water bottles behind us.

Limo? We dont' need no stinkin' limo.

wow! you have me impressed _ even if you rode that bike just once,
there at the wedding, it will have lived a good life. what fun.

[bironi]

Great pic, Bradford. Great idea. Great wife.

Byron

[Too Tall]

DOH! That was you??? Neat Bradford way neat :)
Honestly, if Fly and Doc looked any happier I'd have to lock them both up for illegial and conspicuous joy hogging. That's my story.

[scrooge]

Did ya'll get a drum brake? Why or why not?

[flydhest]

scrooge,

My stoker is set up essentially like her road bike. The difference comes in adjusting reach a hair because she is using much wider bars (46 instead of 40).

My setup has the bars a bit higher and a touch shorter. I'm less likely to get into my drap-across-the-bars-long-and-low position for hammering on the tandem. Saddle-to-pedal is identical.

No drum brake. From all reports, they're easy to install after the fact, and not too expensive, so my thought was to ride it and see what sort of riding we do and if we need one later, get one later. Smiley and TooTall have drum brakes, iirc, but don't know if they are always on.

[Smiley]

My drum brake is always ON and I use it to control speed before I burn up my rims . Go fast down hill and you'll know why you need them :)

[dbrk]

I'm late to this congratulatory party but want to chime in to say that there's not much in life more fun than a tandem bicycle. My brother and I built one when we were kids (well, I was a kid but I did actually make myself useful): it was a crazy, noodley, dangerous sort of thing but we had no idea what we were doing. Then we got a Gitane tandem, which wasn't much better than ours. Our current tandems are both Mariposa, one a 650B with all the fenders, lights, racks, and coolness that puts it in league with the most beautiful Herse bikes. It's big enough for me up front and tiny enough for my wife. She loves to ride this thing and I have caught her with her feet up on the bars. The second is a bigger bike, best suited to two who need something like a 60/56(orlarger). It rarely goes out because I've no larger stoker pal but if anyone wants to go for a ride on either, you are welcome when you visit the Finger Lakes. I will sell the larger bike if anyone wants to pick it up. No shipping, thank you. Write to me for details but basically it's a classic bar end shifting Mariposa. No one knows more about tandems than Mike Barry, as far as I can tell. He must own twenty or more from just as many makers. Taylor, Herse, you name it.

dbrk

[RichardSeton]

We don't have a drum brake on our tandem - we use the Dura Ace brakes that came with the bike. However, it's very important to understand what sort of riding you do when makign these decisions.

We are a relatively light team (290 lbs), and we don't do any loaded touring. We've survived quite well riding in the Pacific Northwest (PNW) without the third brake. In fact, almost every ride we do from our home includes a 600 ft fast windy descent - where the rim brakes are in use a lot. (There's also 600 ft back up as well...)

Having said that, there is usually at least one day per year where the rim brakes aren't sufficient. At those times, I just stop the bike, and let the rims cool. Good excuse to stop and smell the roses.

We're doing a two week tandem tour of Tuscany this September. We will probably add a third brake (10" disc) for that one.

[zap]

Drum brakes. We never had one. Fly, I doubt you will need one for rides in the D.C. area. Coming of the Blue Ridge Parkway in VA or NC, I can see it. But we've gone down several of these descents with canti's. I would just alternate between front and rear brakes if the turns weren't to bad, saving the brakes for all out stopping on hairpin turns. Toughest was in NC coming down off the Parkway from Pisgah.

If you plan on loaded tours, drums or better still, discs, will do nicely.

Now, about hammering on the Tandem.......................

[Bradford]

We started without a drum brake, but I put one on when my wife told me she would divorce me if I took the bike over 50 mph again. We set it up with a bar end shifter as a lever, so we can use it to moderate speed as well.

I've done the moutain decents with just V brakes and you do have to stop and let the rims cool because boy, do they heat up. We use ours mostly to regulate our speed down hill. Set it to a certain place and leave it there and you can keep the bike under a certain speed.

We don't take the bike over 35 mph anymore and our rides have less screaming at the captain.

[davids]

Will you guys post pictures, already??? (Bradford is exempt from this request. Unless he's got more...)

[scrooge]

Will you guys post pictures, already??? (Bradford is exempt from this request. Unless he's got more...)

What he said.

[Smiley]

nuthin that sexy about a tandem , its a work horse with saddle bags , frame pump etc. Unless your talking about a Glenn Erickson built tandem :)

[RichardSeton]

Hmmm.. I'll take a look this evening, to see what I can find..

Will you guys post pictures, already??? (Bradford is exempt from this request. Unless he's got more...)

[RichardSeton]

Found one on my work computer.

First attempt to upload images. Let's see how it goes.


Hmmm.. I'll take a look this evening, to see what I can find..

[sspielman]

We have a circa 1980 Mercian tandem that we have modernised some with Ergopower shifting and more gears (you can't have too many on a tandem). It has cantilever rim brakes as well as an original Phil Wood disk brake (these are controversial, but that is a whole other subject) When I converted the tandem to Ergopower, we lost our double cable brake lever. I just set up one of the old bar end shifters to be used with the disc brake. That way, on a long grade you can just dial up the degree of retardation that you need...(sort of like watching television). It works like a charm...and really saves the hands.
I like the quote "wherever your relationship is going, it will get there faster on a tandem"

[flydhest]

We started without a drum brake, but I put one on when my wife told me she would divorce me if I took the bike over 50 mph again.
--snip--
We don't take the bike over 35 mph anymore and our rides have less screaming at the captain.
Very funny. The Doctor was disappointed that I was reining it in a bit the other day and looks forward to going really fast. She says things like "I always want to go faster, but don't have confidence in my bike handling. I figure if we're on the tandem, you'll take care of that, so let's go fast."

Zap, yeah, the mountains seem like a good place for an auxilliary brake. Re:hammering . . . yeah, you're probably right. In a few more rides, we'll likely want to do that. I'll just have to put on a slightly longer stem and move one spacer.

[The Doctor]

Alright, my turn,

I really look forward to the FAST part of tandem riding while tucking in my head behind Flydhests back, both hands on the middle part of the handlebar and making myself as small and aerodynamic as possible. It is somewhat weird to give up a lot of the control of the bike but I figured out that my captain doesn't want to hurt himself and even less his wife so I'm safe on the tandem. The captain is also a great bike handler and everything will be great as long as he doesnt start to try track standing at the traffick light! It is great being on the tandem and I look forward to a lot of riding, hopefully with good friends. So far communication has been for the captian to not take both his hands off the handlebar at the same time yet (I think I remember this causing a slight emotional outcry from the stoker).

Questions for stokers, how should I position myself when going downhill to maximize our speed? Any other suggestions for a new stoker?

I'll see you all soon.

[Sandy]

Alright, my turn,

I really look forward to the FAST part of tandem riding while tucking in my head behind Flydhests back, both hands on the middle part of the handlebar and making myself as small and aerodynamic as possible. It is somewhat weird to give up a lot of the control of the bike but I figured out that my captain doesn't want to hurt himself and even less his wife so I'm safe on the tandem. The captain is also a great bike handler and everything will be great as long as he doesnt start to try track standing at the traffick light! It is great being on the tandem and I look forward to a lot of riding, hopefully with good friends. So far communication has been for the captian to not take both his hands off the handlebar at the same time yet (I think I remember this causing a slight emotional outcry from the stoker).

Questions for stokers, how should I position myself when going downhill to maximize our speed? Any other suggestions for a new stoker?

I'll see you all soon.

Yeah, I have 4 suggestions for you while riding with Flydhest on your tandem:

1. Wear a blindfold.
2. Start praying.
3. Start smiling
4. Keep praying.


Stoked Stoker Serotta Sandy

[Smiley]

Tell your captain to get rid of his Holy Shorts :)

[zap]

Alright, my turn,

I really look forward to the FAST part of tandem riding while tucking in my head behind Flydhests back, both hands on the middle part of the handlebar and making myself as small and aerodynamic as possible. It is somewhat weird to give up a lot of the control of the bike but I figured out that my captain doesn't want to hurt himself and even less his wife so I'm safe on the tandem. The captain is also a great bike handler and everything will be great as long as he doesnt start to try track standing at the traffick light! It is great being on the tandem and I look forward to a lot of riding, hopefully with good friends. So far communication has been for the captian to not take both his hands off the handlebar at the same time yet (I think I remember this causing a slight emotional outcry from the stoker).

Questions for stokers, how should I position myself when going downhill to maximize our speed? Any other suggestions for a new stoker?

I'll see you all soon.

Doc, Zip has been known to slide off the back of the saddle then place her stomach on the saddle. I never saw her do it :rolleyes: , but she say's it works well. The problem is, she gets scared when we hit 55 and start passing cars.

[Too Tall]

The way to assist is to relax and be one with the bike...sounds like you are on the right track. The only advice I've ever given new stokers for dicey situations where they might want to "tighten up" is to just relax and look straight down. Cornering...try looking as far ahead as possible and press very lighty on the inside (lower) bar at the corners apex than gently let up.

Did you miss the part where I said you kids loooook mah-velous? :)

[Ginger]

Yep Doctor, what Too Tall said. Relax and be one with the bike. You'll get this funky floating feeling...at least I did.

Oh, and the thing that none of the captains are telling you is that you *can* steer from the rear of the bike.
My advice on steering from the rear is: Don't.
Pisses off the captain to no end. Dangerous as well. But if you *want* the icecream, it does end the argument.

[vaxn8r]

Oh, and the thing that none of the captains are telling you is that you *can* steer from the rear of the bike.
My advice on steering from the rear is: Don't.
Pisses off the captain to no end. Dangerous as well. But if you *want* the icecream, it does end the argument.
So true.

[Too Tall]

Ginger is killin' today ;) Good one.

[RichardSeton]

Well, it looks like it's just Bradford and me who are posting pictures. Everyone else embarrassed?

Will you guys post pictures, already??? (Bradford is exempt from this request. Unless he's got more...)

[scrooge]

Well, it looks like it's just Bradford and me who are posting pictures. Everyone else embarrassed?

I, for one, would like to see Too Tall's.

[flydhest]

I, for one, would like to see Too Tall's.

. . . you're still talking about bikes, I hope.

[Sandy]

Actually, Too Tall recently changed his name to So Short. :)


:banana: Seemingly Shorter Serotta Sandy :banana:

[Too Tall]

You asked for it!
In no particular order: us us us Larry S. (g-d I miss that smiling face) and last but not least two pictures of how stupid cyclists look after riding across the USA.

[The Doctor]

It looks like riding a tandem means a pleasant life.

I'll try to not upset my captain while riding. To Tall, any suggestions how I can see through Flydhest? He is kind of solid and non-transparent.

You can pass the cars? That would be awesome.

The Doctor

[flydhest]

I'll try to not upset my captain while riding.

You'll notice she had to add in the "while riding" part . . .

To Tall, any suggestions how I can see through Flydhest? He is kind of solid and non-transparent.


"kind of" solid???? Tough crowd.


You can pass the cars? That would be awesome.
The Doctor

Bradford, see what I mean? Hey, maybe you can get Mrs. Bradford to chime in.

[Too Tall]

What are you sensitve Flystud? Doc ment superterrificfantastic muscles = "solid". Sheesh.

Yeah Doc. If Fly can be aware to hunker down in the drops as you approach uphills of "stuff" you need to be aware of it will help. Riding in the countryside is less of an issue 'cause the views are pretty good left and right. City riding can be a PITA for both so don't feel left out.

Dearest Queen wears a helmet mirror 100% of the time we tandem as it gives her alot of input to riding...team effort and all that. She gives good traffic reports.

Gosh! I know something ;) Just smack the back of Fly's helmet twice really fast than once than three times for him to get low so you can see...that will be your secret code. Hmmm, better make that four times really fast than once than six times fast and once...yeah, there could be alot of road noise and vibration. :rolleyes: Kidding.

PS - I just took a "re-look" at me in the pool...OMG that heinous. No wonder those kids at the DQ in Texarkana were crying.

[flydhest]

What are you sensitve Flystud? Doc ment superterrificfantastic muscles = "solid". Sheesh.


I got that . .. it was the "kind of" that hurt.

[zap]

I got that . .. it was the "kind of" that hurt.

...........and think about this, your still young.

[flydhest]

So we got in 100 miles on the tandem this weekend. Just over 40 on Saturday and just under 60 on Sunday. The Doctor really, really wants to go fast. I reckon we hit 50 once or twice on long descents on River Road. She hasn't gone that fast on her single before and I fear we've created a monster.

Uphill . . . a different story. We're working out the kinks and coordinating fairly well, I reckon. Nevertheless, it was like an interval workout focusing on power. We're both feeling our legs this morning.

One of the Doctor's colleagues lives along the ride we took (Macarthur Boulevard for locals) and we agreed to ride with him yesterday. Boy did we misjudge how long it would take us to get there, as we showed up a half hour early. On a long, straight flat, we can roll fairly well, it would seem.

Out of the saddle climbing is coming along well, though still not perfect. The one difficulty for both of us is that we don't want to "rock the boat" as it were by moving around extraneously on the saddle and as a result, we were each griping sitbones and such. All will work out in time, I suppose.

Oh, and I'm not a fan of Shimano. A big part, no doubt, is just what I'm used to--Campy. But the "push the button and release" part of Shimano is a bit annoying for me. Especially while on the tandem where I can't see the gears and the step size is different. Further,not being able to shift several cogs to a harder gear in one throw is a bit of an annoyance for me on the tandem. It would be less so on a single, I think, but with the tandems the changes in ups and downs because of the extra weight means that I want to shift more aggressively some times. So far, my thinking is that, at the bottom of the top line of gruppos, Centaur beats 105. I'm sure at the top there's no difference and you just get used to the lighter touch of Shimano, but for less expensive racing groups, so far I think Campy wins.

[scrooge]

Glad to hear its going well. We ordered our co-comotion this weekend, I only hope that my wife catches tandem fever as quickly as yours...

What are your feelings about the gearing that came on the Co-Mo. The LBS recommended that I switch to a 12-25 in the rear to make the jumps smaller for normal road riding. I was planning on that, but we're also thinking about doing some touring with a Bob trailer (riding to my wife's folks near the Finger Lakes of New York, which would include Pennsylvania--I hear its hilly there) and am wondering if it would be good to keep the 32 in back, or if I'll need to change the front rings too to make the bike touring worthy...
Any thoughts? How does your gearing up hill on the Tandem compare with your single?

[flydhest]

The steps are definitely bigger, but I don't mind for two main reasons. Everything is bigger on the tandem, by this I mean the need for gear shifting is bigger, hence my difficulty with the fact that I can't shift a bunch of gears at once. I would reckon that there'd be a lot of shifting past some gears. You can fine tune, sure, but that's not what tandem riding is about for us right now. We don't want/need to milk all the efficiency out of ourselves yet. Second, having spent a bunch of time on 5 and 6 speed freewheels back in the day, many that had a decent range of gears, I don't mind letting my cadence vary a bit.

Long-winded way of saying, don't sweat it. If you'll be in the Finger Lakes, having access to something small will likely be welcome and getting stuck without a smaller gear strikes me as a way to keep your wife from getting enthusiastic.

[RichardSeton]

Re riding - flats and hills. We are faster along the flats and down hills than either of us individually. We're slower up hill that I am, but faster then the stoker. A tandem gets you a great improvement on air resistance, but it's still two slugs peddling it up hill. As time goes on, and you learn the unconscious communication, you'll get better at both. We're still getting better, after 3 years and 6000 miles.

Re seating. You can't move around as much on the tandem as your single, so your butts will get much sorer. We solve the problem with regular butt breaks. We try to combine these for when we need extra power - climbing a short hill, accelerating from the lights, etc. Tandems accelerate slow, so you can wave your buddies goodby when the light turns green. (Assuming your buddies stop at red lights).

Finally gearing: We didn't like the standare gearing that comes with tandems. It's designed to match the widest range of riders, and that's not us. Our tandem came with Shimano 10 speed Ultregra, set up as follows:

Front: 53-39-24. Yes, the 24 is *way* out of spec, and that's quite a jump. It's used about 3% of the time, but when we need it, we really need it. We have a few 15% grades here in Portland. The 10 speed Ultregra shifts this well - much better than the 9 speed did on our old tandem.

Rear: 12 - 27 for normal, and 12-23 for flat rides. I find I like to have close ratios, and don't forget, there are two riders to match cadence with now.

I have a use the Shimano Flightdeck computer to know where my gears are. Don't need it on the singles.

The steps are definitely bigger, but I don't mind for two main reasons. Everything is bigger on the tandem, by this I mean the need for gear shifting is bigger, hence my difficulty with the fact that I can't shift a bunch of gears at once. I would reckon that there'd be a lot of shifting past some gears. You can fine tune, sure, but that's not what tandem riding is about for us right now. We don't want/need to milk all the efficiency out of ourselves yet. Second, having spent a bunch of time on 5 and 6 speed freewheels back in the day, many that had a decent range of gears, I don't mind letting my cadence vary a bit.

Long-winded way of saying, don't sweat it. If you'll be in the Finger Lakes, having access to something small will likely be welcome and getting stuck without a smaller gear strikes me as a way to keep your wife from getting enthusiastic.

[Tailwinds]

Great pix, TT! Looks like a dream vacation.

You asked for it!
In no particular order: us us us Larry S. (g-d I miss that smiling face) and last but not least two pictures of how stupid cyclists look after riding across the USA.

[vaxn8r]

Fly, I wonder if you're not shifting too much? I ride both systems on singles as well as on the tandem, though I've gravitated towards Shimano on the tandem because I found shifting more precise and easier to correctly adjust. Had Campy been the only available I doubt I'd give it a second thought. I suggest the more miles you get in the saddle it'll become a non-issue. If it isn't, life's too short to be worried about components. Switch them out.

Richard, I own one FLight Deck and it's on the tandem. Perfect use of a subpar (in other respects) computer.

[flydhest]

Richard,
The 39 middle ring sounds like where we'll be going. A bailout ring for those "holy crap" times plus two rings for regular riding. Sounds like you spec'd where I think I'll end up. I wonder if the desire for closer gearing will change. I'm not convinced, but hey, I've got all of 150 miles tandeming in, so I know roughly zero.

Vax,
Interesting point. Could be. The light touch of Shimano takes some getting used to, however. I don't find Campy hard to adjust, but I might not have any valid comparison, since it's all I've ridden since I rode and raced on downtube friction shifters. Am I missing something about trimming the front derailleur. Is it possible on a 105 triple? It doesn't seem like it. Or, more accurately, it's all indexed so small trimming doesn't to work. Again, could be me.

Thanks again to everyone for joining in this discussion (and to Smiley for starting it). Many miles to go on the tandem road, but the Doctor loves it, so it'll be a good ride.

[RichardSeton]

Subpar is exactly right. I wonldn't have it if I could avoid it.


Richard, I own one FLight Deck and it's on the tandem. Perfect use of a subpar (in other respects) computer.

[vaxn8r]

Am I missing something about trimming the front derailleur. Is it possible on a 105 triple? It doesn't seem like it. Or, more accurately, it's all indexed so small trimming doesn't to work. Again, could be me.


I wasn't trying to impune your shifting ability but tandems are different. It'll be second nature soon.

My Ultegra 9 setup is so perfect I either don't need to trim the FD or else maybe there is a bit of trim and I don't even think about it. I know I can trim my DA FD (on my singles) a bit. I'd almost have to go out and ride it to see what I do.

I have ridden poorly set up Shimano tandems and it takes all the fun out of it. I'm a stickler for silent,dead-on shifting. It can be acheived with Shimano.

[flydhest]

I wasn't trying to impune your shifting ability but tandems are different. It'll be second nature soon.

My Ultegra 9 setup is so perfect I either don't need to trim the FD or else maybe there is a bit of trim and I don't even think about it. I know I can trim my DA FD (on my singles) a bit. I'd almost have to go out and ride it to see what I do.

I have ridden poorly set up Shimano tandems and it takes all the fun out of it. I'm a stickler for silent,dead-on shifting. It can be acheived with Shimano.

Vax,
Unlike you, I _was_ trying to cast aspersions on my shifting ability :D I'm perfectly willing to believe it's a combination of me and the new components that still have to be adjusted perfectly. The shop shipped it to me and I didn't spend hardly anytime adjusting derailleurs and such.

I'll have to hop to that before the weekend.

[Too Tall]

This is sooooooooooo cool. Two of my favorite people are having a great deal of fun. Neat :)
I'm heartened with your go slow approach and to take this experience as it comes. I'll tell you folks that the $$ they spent on education was not entirely wasted ;)
FWIIW I've seen many many ring combos on tandems and nobody is the same. One thing fer sher, there is no one thing fer sher.

Keep on keepin' on Doc.