Lets talk about shoes - road vs mountain

[jambee]

I have always been riding mixed terrains and have been happy with relatively wide tires. Up until recently, my skinniest tire was 33.33 mm.

I'm now building my first road bike. It's got 26 mm tires.

This made me think about shoes. Since I like to walk around in the trails I ride, I always use Sidi mountain bike shoes.

The question is - are there any benefits in wearing road shoes? I have no experience and always see that roadies have a hard time walking around where I tend to ride....

Opinions?

[ANAO]

They're stiffer and look dorkier.

[Gummee]

IME I'm good with either up to a point. Then the mtn pedals and shoes start giving me hot spots.

It happens less with the really stiff soles of the upper end of the mtn shoe range. M315, Lake M331CX, etc

Edited to add: if you get hot spots too, you may try the new Speedplay pedals. Cleats look bigger.

M

[jambee]

I have been riding Brevets in my SIDI mountain bikes for a few years and have had no real pains.

I was thinking that the power transfer could be more efficient when riding road shoes, but that could also be improved by finding harder MTB shoes and wider cleats (i.e not the egg beaters I have on all my bikes).

[jamesutiopia]

IMO, carbon footbeds have effectively eliminated the need for 3 and 4 bolt cleats-- in the past, the big interface of traditional road cleats reduced incidence of "hot foot". People seem pretty set in their shoe/cleat/pedal selection, so I imagine several generations of road riders would not know that 2 bolt cleats/shoes are viable on the road...

Far in the past I rode Sidi road shoes at Speedplay pedals exclusively because (at the time) they were superior (big 4 bolt/screw cleat on the Speedplay pedals was great for distributing load across the shoe). I moved on to carbon MTB shoes and 2 bolt cleats when I started riding brevets, and have now standardized on them. They are inexpensive, double sided, and need less maintenance.

For me, the additional benefit of having a tread that shrouds the cleat (no more skittering around convenience stores, scraping wood floors, or messing around with razor-sharp screws) outweighs whatever weight savings is found in road pedal/cleat systems and shoes (can't be much).

[Birddog]

If i had it to do over I might well just ride in Mtn Bike shoes exclusively. The newer super stiff carbon fiber soles tend to give me hot spots and foot issues on longer rides. A system like Crank Bros would work just fine and they are inexpensive too.

[benb]

The right foodbeds make all the difference in the world too regardless of the shoe..

[jambee]

@bend - talk to me about foodbed....

[sandyrs]

In my experience mtb cleats often slip again the shoe when the pedals are dialed up to a high enough tension to prevent unclipping during really hard road efforts (ie going 100% up a very steep hill, where you're too tired to worry about smooth pedal stroke). Road cleats do not have this problem.

Since I ride mainly on the road, I use road pedals. If I rode primarily off-road, I would not get new shoes and new pedals just for one road bike.

EDIT: Also, sometimes I move my MTB pedals to a rode bike during the winter so I can use my thermal shoes on the road. I definitely think using mtb pedals on a road bike that's in rotation with a bunch of other bikes using mtb pedals is a smart move.

[jamesutiopia]

@bend - talk to me about foodbed....

"Carbon" footbeds are what make MTB shoes viable for road, as they tend to flex very little. Before carbon footbeds there was a lot more variation in both road and MTB shoes, but now it seems like there are a lot of rigid shoes available thanks to cheap carbon footbeds (e.g. Specialized and Bontrager even offer perfectly good house-brand shoes).

With so many adequate shoes on the market, you can shop based on fit and features, rather than just buying Sidi (who still make nice shoes, btw). There are still plenty of bad shoes on the market as well, but it is a happy circumstance that there are so many choices in quality shoes...

[eddief]

But if you look at, for example, the high end Sidi road and mtb shoes, they look identical except the mtb have lugs on the soles. Otherwise same / same with exception of cleat / pedal interface.

MTB shoes are more versatile if you need / like to get off the bike and walk some. Certainly you can do that in road shoes, but then you walk like a duck, slide like a duck, and / or carry cleat covers everywhere you go. For a huge percentage of club / sport riders, I have no idea why they'd choose road shoes.

The sole stiffness argument doesn't hold much water.

Weight Weenies would suggest about 50 grams:

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/listings/components.php?type=shoes

[makoti]

Weight

[IFRider]

I use speedplay frogs on all bikes. I wear Sidi Dominator (mtn) and Sidi genius (road). Both are several years old so shoes may have improved but I tend to use the mtn shoes on road when I know I will be getting off the bike for a period of time. I notice more flex in the mtn bike for walking but don't experience much in the way of hotspots.

Warren

[sandyrs]

I'll also add that in my experience, Shimano SPD-SL cleats result in none of the abject struggles with walking that MTB pedal devotees consistently attribute to road pedals. Speedplay and Time seem to be the main culprits there. An SPD-SL cleat and a road shoe with even a miniscule heel gripper (ie almost every road shoe on the market) are fine for walking on all but the most slippery tile surfaces at the beginning or end of a road ride.

The issues with road shoes and walking, in my experience, arise mainly when attempting to walk off-road, as road cleats are easily clogged with mud, snow, etc. and provide no grip on rocks or loose surfaces.

[nooneline]

The big benefit doesn't really come from the shoe, IMO. The stability comes from having a much bigger pedal - it's a bigger, firmer connection.

The difference in shoes is more general - some MTB shoes are more comfortable and less stiff than some road shoes; but, the flip side of that is, some MTB shoes are the same chassis as road shoes, except the glue a little bit of tread on around it.

Honestly, as much as it chafes the fashion sense a little bit to see a road bike with mtb pedals, most people don't need road pedals, and using decent mtb (maybe we should start calling them all-purpose) clipless pedals and shoes that let you do what you want to do when you've got your bike with you is a good thing.

[jambee]

Well I use Eggbeaters which I'm also considering replacing (Time Attak was recommended recently).

And I agree - road shoes on gravel etc are no bueno.

[Vientomas]

I don't race. This combo works well for me.

[benb]

"Carbon" footbeds are what make MTB shoes viable for road, as they tend to flex very little. Before carbon footbeds there was a lot more variation in both road and MTB shoes, but now it seems like there are a lot of rigid shoes available thanks to cheap carbon footbeds (e.g. Specialized and Bontrager even offer perfectly good house-brand shoes).


I was actually talking about stuff like the Specialized BG shoe inserts or if you've got more money stuff like this:

http://www.cyclesoles.com/

I have 2 pairs of identical Bontrager shoes at the moment (in terms of fit) one is a MTB shoe with a nylon sole, the other is a road shoe with a carbon sole.. I had a pair of the cyclesoles built that go in both. The cyclesoles pretty much negate the difference in feel/stiffness between the 2 shoes so I basically never use the road shoes. (I have SPD on the MTB pair and SPD-SL on the road pair)

I had a ton of hotspotproblems with my previous shoes/inserts.. I still had some issues with the cyclesoles and had them adjusted in the spot where I had the hotspot.. the hotspot was instantly gone.

[Mayhem]

On a whim I went on a ride with my MTB shoes about a month ago, I have some VP spd road pedals as well as Shimano MTB pedals. Still wearing them. I can't tell it's a mountain bike shoe until I put my foot on the ground. No discomfort, no hotspots from the supposed small contact spot, ect. No more clank, clank clank. It's nice to actually walk. Having a tread makes it very easy to guide the cleat into my one sided VP pedals. The longer I wear them the more the idea of a road shoe seems kind of stupid. I don't believe I'm going to wear a road shoe again and I'm actually looking at getting some leather Lake MX237's or even the Sommerville Shredder.

They don't look dorky to me:

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i233/snuffster_2006/006_zpsnirkg5a5.jpg

[dgauthier]

The bigger platform on road pedals makes a *big* difference. My first "serious" road bike came stock with mountain pedals, so I paired them with some Sidi Dominator mountain shoes, and rode that for a couple of years. After hearing enough anecdotes about how road pedals and shoes were more efficient, provided more power transfer, etc, I swapped the mountain setup for some Time Impacts and Sidi Genius road shoes.

Holy crap. I was immediately faster by 10 minutes per hour on my usual training loops! That is, rides that would normally take an hour would now take 50 minutes, two hours became 100 minutes, etc.

That is a *huge* performance improvement for basically nothing.

However, there is no way I would recommend habitually going for long strolls in road shoes. It will certainly mess up the shoes and cleats. Road shoes are only good for one thing: riding a road bike. If you really want to take walks off the bike during your outings, stick with the mountain shoes and pedals, but realize you are giving up a lot of performance for the convenience.

[jamesutiopia]

On a whim I went on a ride with my MTB shoes about a month ago, I have some VP spd road pedals as well as Shimano MTB pedals. Still wearing them. I can't tell it's a mountain bike shoe until I put my foot on the ground. No discomfort, no hotspots from the supposed small contact spot, ect. No more clank, clank clank. It's nice to actually walk. Having a tread makes it very easy to guide the cleat into my one sided VP pedals. The longer I wear them the more the idea of a road shoe seems kind of stupid. I don't believe I'm going to wear a road shoe again and I'm actually looking at getting some leather Lake MX237's or even the Sommerville Shredder.

http://adventureworldmagazine.com/uploads/53/Shoe.bmp

+1, I've been wearing Specialized BG Pro Carbon MTB shoes for 6 years or so with Time ATAC cleats for road and several full brevet series. I don't own a MTB, so these are exclusively for on-road/gravel use.

The ratchet mechanism seems to be a weak point in an otherwise great (for me) shoe, but they offer replacements on their web site...

[unterhausen]

The bigger platform on road pedals makes a *big* difference. My first "serious" road bike came stock with mountain pedals, so I paired them with some Sidi Mega mountain shoes, and rode that for a couple of years. After hearing enough anecdotes about how road pedals and shoes were more efficient, provided more power transfer, etc, I swapped the mountain setup for some Time Impacts and Sidi Mega road shoes.

Holy crap. I was immediately faster by 10 minutes per hour on my usual training loops! That is, rides that would normally take an hour would now take 50 minutes, two hours became 100 minutes, etc.

I feel like there was some other factor that contributed to this. I have a friend that rides MTB, road, or platforms depending on which bike he is on. His performance doesn't change. And I don't think my performance has been harmed at all going from road shoes to MTB shoes.

[oddsaabs]

I have switched almost exclusively to mtb shoes on my road bike. I find modern mtb shoes to be every bit as stiff as road shoes due to being built from many of the same parts as their road counterparts. The only drawback I can find is a small weight penelty, which for a dinosaur like myself, is the last thing I need to worry about.

An example of the similarities between road/mtb shoes can be seen in the Northwave line. The Extreme Tech road shoe weighs 235g, the mtb version 280g. Both are built from the same parts, just one has the ability to walk around without issue and the other doesn't.

http://www.northwave.com/en/product/_extreme_tech_plus

http://www.northwave.com/en/product/_extreme_tech_mtb_plus

If it helps any, I've been using a version of the Northwave mtb shoe with excellent results. They are stiff, comfy, and work just dandy for the road. Pair them with the Shimano PD-A600 and you've got a set up that's hard t beat.

[FlashUNC]

I am one of those hotspot people. Mtn pedals are fine for me if I'm dawdling around town or even shorter off-road rides, but longer stuff on-road, the larger contact patch reduces hot spots and other issues with my cranky feat.

I will say pedals like the Time ATACs, which I swapped to after some time on eggbeaters, did help with the issues, but give me the bigger cleat and the duck walk anyday.

[eddief]

after SPD.

I am one of those hotspot people. Mtn pedals are fine for me if I'm dawdling around town or even shorter off-road rides, but longer stuff on-road, the larger contact patch reduces hot spots and other issues with my cranky feat.

I will say pedals like the Time ATACs, which I swapped to after some time on eggbeaters, did help with the issues, but give me the bigger cleat and the duck walk anyday.

[FlashUNC]

after SPD.

I can't do Speedplays. Not after their litigation nonsense.

The Times are fine and a vast improvement over SPDs or eggbeaters, but I'm still a road pedal guy.

[Mayhem]

I am one of those hotspot people. Mtn pedals are fine for me if I'm dawdling around town or even shorter off-road rides, but longer stuff on-road, the larger contact patch reduces hot spots and other issues with my cranky feat.

I will say pedals like the Time ATACs, which I swapped to after some time on eggbeaters, did help with the issues, but give me the bigger cleat and the duck walk anyday.

I measured the Speedplay contact spot on my road shoe(s), and the SPD's on my MTB shoe. Taking into account the fact that the sole of my MTB shoe contacts the side platform of the pedal, my MTB shoe has a contact spot .4mm wider. It would be even wider if I had some of those SPD 540 or 600 road pedals. Lengthwise, the Speedplays are almost 1mm longer. I don't think the sole of my MTB shoes are flexing because they have .5mm less contact spot on the front and rear. I've never bought into that whole "small contact spot" deal and neither have my feet. I have a few road shoes and I can't physically bend the sole any more of one over the other by hand, to include my MTB's.

[FlashUNC]

I measured the Speedplay contact spot on my road shoe(s), and the SPD's on my MTB shoe. Taking into account the fact that the sole of my MTB shoe contacts the side platform of the pedal, my MTB shoe has a contact spot .4mm wider. It would be even wider if I had some of those SPD 540 or 600 road pedals. Lengthwise, the Speedplays are almost 1mm longer. I don't think the sole of my MTB shoes are flexing because they have .5mm less contact spot on the front and rear. I've never bought into that whole "small contact spot" deal and neither have my feet. I have a few road shoes and I can't physically bend the sole any more of one over the other by hand, to include my MTB's.

Don't know what to tell you. Mountain cleats and pedals bother my feet. Road pedals and shoes don't. Particularly around the smaller contact patch of the cleat/pedal interface.

I get the overall pedal is larger and the contact patch is probably not all that different across the entire system and the vagaries of one manufacturer to another make for an apples-to-apples comparison difficult, but when if feels like someone is jabbing a skewer in between my second and third toes right above that cleat/pedal interface in mtn pedals after two hours on the bike but disappears on road pedals, its a pretty simple calculus for me.

Road shoes and pedals all the way. The silly duck walk is worth the lack of foot pain. I'm glad others are having better experiences.

[russ46]

When I got serious about riding 6 years ago, I went with MTB pedals because I change clothes at my office a lot & its much easier & less hassle to get to the car with MTB shoes and not have to change shoes at the start. I've never had a problem w/hot spots although I don't typically take long rides, most weekends are less than 3 hrs. I bought a MTB last year & didn't have to buy new shoes & used a spare set of pedals I had. For me.....no reason to use road cleats & shoes.

[john903]

I primarily use crank bro's candy and eggbetters with Sidi mountain bike shoes with my cross bike/ gravel trail riding and commuting. When I ride my road bike I use Look Keo and Sidi road shoes and don't really get off the bike to walk around. Basically If you think you will be riding in cool areas and want to get off the bike I would go with MTB pedals and shoes I don't think you lose anything but gain the convenience of being able to walk around and not worry about damaging your cleats or slipping and falling.
Have a great day.

[benb]

I think before condemning MTB pedal systems you need to control for all the variances in shoes, where the shoe allows you to place the cleat, whether or not you have some foot flexibility issues and maybe need orthotics or something, whether or not you changed the stack height when you switched pedal systems, etc..

There are a lot of variables & any number of them can be tweaked to solve a problem.

A lot of the shoes seem strangely designed in terms of sole, shape, etc.. I wouldn't buy into much unless someone has had MTB & Road shoes that fit identically. It's not that hard to do these days although interestingly it seems easier to accomplish from Specialized, Bontrager, etc.. than it does from the Euro shoe companies.

[etu]

Given the varying opinions on this topic, sounds like the best option might be to try road shoes/pedal yourself if it doesn't impact your budget too much. Could always go to the classified and resell if you don't like them.
My own experience has been that I prefer road stuff for my road bikes except my travel and rando rigs. They "feel" right - a little tighter, more secure, stiffer. Most of it might be me imagining it but works for me.

[Bob Ross]

I feel like there was some other factor that contributed to this.

You sir are far more charitable than I would be, chapeau!

[dgauthier]

I feel like there was some other factor that contributed to this. I have a friend that rides MTB, road, or platforms depending on which bike he is on. His performance doesn't change. And I don't think my performance has been harmed at all going from road shoes to MTB shoes.

I went from especially sh***y mountain pedals (Wellgo) to very good road pedals (i.e.: tiny platform to huge). Perhaps better designed mountain pedals with a very good platform wouldn't have slowed me down as much. What mountain vs. road pedals do you use?

[druptight]

SPD MTB shoes with Shimano A-600 pedals feels the same to me as my road shoes with dura ace pedals.

[tumbler]

I went from especially sh***y mountain pedals (Wellgo) to very good road pedals (i.e.: tiny platform to huge). Perhaps better designed mountain pedals with a very good platform wouldn't have slowed me down as much. What mountain vs. road pedals do you use?

Unless you were riding the Wellgo's with flip-flops, I also suspect that something else contributed to the speed increase. I don't think going from SPDs to road pedals could account for a 17% increase in speed.