Pacenti SL23 V2 vs HED C2?

[Climb01742]

What does the collective wisdom say? Has the version 2 of the SL23 passed the C2 or does HED still rule the roost? TIA.;)

[Bruce K]

We have a set of Pacentis my son built up for his gravel bike

He is wrestling with our loyalty to HED wheels vs his big grin every time he rides the Pacentis

I'm not switching just yet but I'm pretty sure he is

BK

[John H.]

Are you talking about the standard C2 rim or the plus?
Are you running clinchers or tubeless tires?
I have used both Pacenti and Hed rims extensively- love them both.
But I would only use Hed C2 if it was for a clincher application.
Guys will go on all day about proper technique being all that is needed to mount a clincher on a Pacenti rim- but when you are out on the road needing to fix a flat it will be an absolute f**ker to get off and get back on again.
Be prepared to break tire levers, pinch tubes, and swear a lot.
I also would only use the Hed Plus rims for tubeless for the same reason.
That said, I love me some Pacenti rims for tubeless- just bought my third set.

[Climb01742]

Are you talking about the standard C2 rim or the plus?
Are you running clinchers or tubeless tires?
I have used both Pacenti and Hed rims extensively- love them both.
But I would only use Hed C2 if it was for a clincher application.
Guys will go on all day about proper technique being all that is needed to mount a clincher on a Pacenti rim- but when you are out on the road needing to fix a flat it will be an absolute f**ker to get off and get back on again.
Be prepared to break tire levers, pinch tubes, and swear a lot.
I also would only use the Hed Plus rims for tubeless for the same reason.
That said, I love me some Pacenti rims for tubeless- just bought my third set.

Was thinking of standard C2 for clinchers. And whether accurate or not, I've read that the SL23 V2 is easier to mount. Would love to know if, real world, V2s are easier.

[John H.]

I have a set of the new SL23 sitting right here.
My gut tells me that they have not bridged the gap.
That and I can change my Hed C2/Conti GP4000 combo with just hands. Don't even need levers.
I am all about keeping it easy to fix stuff on the road.

[Climb01742]

John, I'm with you. I like being able to mount tires without levers if at all possible. Thx for feedback.

[Joachim]

Not sure about your technique but it's super easy getting tires on and off from Pacenti sl23, v1 and 2. Used conti, vittorias, panaracer etc. you need to move it to the center of the rim and it's easy as pie. I use stans or Pacenti rim tape. You want to talk difficult, campy neutrons with Conti tires

[bianchi10]

The C2 and C2 Plus are both stiffer hoops than the Pacenti Hoop. The C2's also have a better weight balance. The C2 still sets the bar for aluminium clinchers.

[Joachim]

The C2 and C2 Plus are both stiffer hoops than the Pacenti Hoop. The C2's also have a better weight balance. The C2 still sets the bar for aluminium clinchers.

You are talking about Pacenti v2?

[TurboNate]

+1 for the hed c2 or plus, they ride really nice and are made out of a nice material. They build up nice and easy, and go for miles. I personally feel like the pacentis are made from a softer, more malleable aluminum. They just feel softer, ding easier too.

[bianchi10]

Yes I was. I was just talking to my wheel builder about this exact thing and this is what I was told. Not info based on personal experience, just regurgitating what I heard.

[ergott]

I've built literally hundreds of each.

I challenge anyone to ride both and be able to tell the difference in ride quality if the decals are covered. The widths are about 1mm different with the SL23 being in the middle of the two Hed rims (almost). The internal width of the updated SL23 (V2) is closer to the Hed Belgium + with a weight that's less than the standard C2. Tire pressure will do more to change the ride quality at this point.

I've had riders dent Hed and Pacenti rims. If you hit any alloy rim hard enough it will dent. To say one dents easier is based on too small a sample size (one or two riders). I know I have the first set of SL23s I built still on my bike and I lost count of the miles. The wheelset has been on 3 different bikes already and includes all year long riding up here in New York (read: crappy winters). One rim is stiffer than the other? Not in my opinion and I haven't seen any data to suggest otherwise.

Both companies make rims to high standards. I usually don't bother talking someone out of either choice if their mind is already made up. I will however point out that for me, the Pacenti rims are more often in stock and cost less. They give up nothing in performance and the wheels end up costing less.

The most recent set of V2 SL 23s I built for my riding mate were with Tune hubs and 20/24 spoke count (CX-Rays with DT Aero Comps for the right, rear side like I usually do). The set ended up weighing 1316g. Not bad at all. Just did a century today with him for the maiden voyage. He loves them. I can mount brand new tires on them with no levers. It's a definite improvement and a non issue now.

You can't go wrong with either choice.

Hope that helps.

[Climb01742]

Thank you, Eric. I certainly appreciate you sharing your notable experience with both.

[oldpotatoe]

What does the collective wisdom say? Has the version 2 of the SL23 passed the C2 or does HED still rule the roost? TIA.;)

Built both, both build really well. I think for the $, the Pacenti is the 'winner'. I think the HED is over priced for what it is. I would also place the Archtype in the mix as good, similar shaped, rims. As for 'softer aluminum'..doubt that. You can tell a lot about a rim when you build them..I don't feel either is 'softer' than the other.

I like the Pacentis. BTW-QBP is now selling HED rims..but holy moly, they are expensive, even at wholesale. Don't understand why.

[JAGI410]

You can't go wrong with either choice.



Then the tie breaker vote would go to the one that supports the forum with a banner ad up top and frequently participates here.

[Cicli]

Then the tie breaker vote would go to the one that supports the forum with a banner ad up top and frequently participates here.

Yep.

[guido]

I have had Hed Belgium+ rims on my SanMarcos since I built it and absolutely love them. But I needed to build a dyno wheel for a brevet and time was short, so I had a wheel built with the new Pacenti SL23 v2. It turned out great. Compass Stampede Pass tires mount easily on both the Hed and the new Pacenti rim just fine (I have 650B Pacenti SL23 rims that mount BabyShoe Pass tires just fine too...).

Standard tips of Stan's tape, pressing the beads together and centering them in the dip in the well, talc or a few drops of water for lube and heating the tire in a dryer for a few minutes before mounting the first time all help with mounting tires both of these rims...

[makoti]

I have 2.5 pairs of Pacentis (three rear, two front) and I love them. Never ridden the Hed & was thinking about a set of Ardennes before I got these, but I'm really happy with my choice.
FWIW< I've spoken to service at both companies & they were both very helpful, so either way you're set in that respect.

[chiasticon]

have the belgium c2's and the original sl23's, in basically the exact same build (same spoke type/count and same hubs, just slightly different lacing patterns). both ride excellent and i'd agree that you'd be hard pressed to notice a difference in either strictly from riding.

i definitely agree that i DREAD the day when i ever have to fix a flat on the sl23's while out on the road. sure, there's a technique to it which is a bit more different from any other clincher. and it is reassuring the way that the bead stays locked into the rim until you pry it away. but i can still see that sucking when it's winter, or pouring rain, or 100F with 80% humidity and no shade in sight. so i've got my tougher tires on the sl23's, or i use them for cyclocross training, where a flat just means a short walk (in shoes not terrible for it) back to the car.

i will note that i have velox tape on both sets of wheels, which i've heard makes it even more difficult to change tires on the sl23's. i should change over to stans or the conti tape, i guess?

[ergott]

i will note that i have velox tape on both sets of wheels, which i've heard makes it even more difficult to change tires on the sl23's. i should change over to stans or the conti tape, i guess?

Big mistake. Velox is so 20 years ago. Get some tape from Pacenti, Stan's or wherever. Even if you don't use tubeless it's a superior tape. Reduced circumference and more slippery os the bead of the tire goes where it should.

Hope that helps. I've done roadside tube changes and it's an issue. Most tires "break in" and are easier to work with with some miles on them.

The technique of putting the bead in the center of the rim while working with it is something that works with all rims. The center is the deepest part. Always finish at the valve, not opposite it.

[Lovetoclimb]

You want to talk difficult, campy neutrons with Conti tires

Recently encountered THE MOST DIFFICULT combo in my days: Challenge Criteriums 23mm on Fulcrum Racing Zeros (seem similar in rim shape to Neutrons...)

[PaMtbRider]

...Always finish at the valve, not opposite it.

+1 Always amazes me how many "experts" never learned this.

[eBAUMANN]

+1 Always amazes me how many "experts" never learned this.

are we talking with tubeless or tubes here?
cause i have always heard/done the opposite for tubes and never found a reason to change that policy.

follow up Q - if that is your general rule of thumb for mounting tires with/without tubes...why?

in regards to a hard to mount tire/rim combo...stans ztr355 with michelin jets ("30c" file tread cx tire)...i actually had to use tire levers and snapped a couple in the process.

[PaMtbRider]

Tube tires. Easier to avoid pinching the tube. When you work toward the valve stem you can have the bead centered in the rim the whole way around making it easier to mount. When you get to the last little bit to mount you can push up on the valve stem. That keeps the tube more in the tire and away from the sidewall and won't pinch as quick.

[thwart]

The most recent set of V2 SL 23s I built for my riding mate were with Tune hubs and 20/24 spoke count (CX-Rays with DT Aero Comps for the right, rear side like I usually do). The set ended up weighing 1316g. Not bad at all.

You can say that again. What do those hubs weigh?

[ergott]

Hubs are about 75g and 175g.

[saab2000]

are we talking with tubeless or tubes here?
cause i have always heard/done the opposite for tubes and never found a reason to change that policy.

follow up Q - if that is your general rule of thumb for mounting tires with/without tubes...why?

in regards to a hard to mount tire/rim combo...stans ztr355 with michelin jets ("30c" file tread cx tire)...i actually had to use tire levers and snapped a couple in the process.

I had a heck of a time mounting anything onto Stans rims until I really followed Ergott's tips on getting the tire into the center channel and getting the valve area last, not first. It's totally counterintuitive for a typical clincher.

I mounted Michelin Jets on Stan's Iron Cross rims and finally got it down. Currently Mr. Ergott is rebuilding those wheels with some Pacenti SL25 rims for reasons unrelated to the tires and I'm curious how they mount up. I'm understanding that the rims are a bit wider (like a millimeter or so) and I'm curious about the whole experience. Looking forward to it.

Center channel is important and the tires will 'snap' or 'pop' into place when they're ready. That whole thing makes me nervous because I'm waiting for one to break the rim or the tire bead and explode violently but so far that's never happened. The final POP as the bead of the tire seats is somewhat satisfying!

BTW, I'm using mine with inner tubes. I don't use the bike in question enough to go tubeless. Not yet at least.

[John H.]

My personal policy is to have gear that I can service on the road.
I don't mind having to use tire levers to change a flat (that is what they are for), but if it comes to breaking tire levers and pinching tubes I give the rims and/or tires a DQ.
I am good at changing tires. If a rim/tire combo is difficult for me I shudder to think of how it will be for the person with less skill, patience, hand strength, etc.- they will be stranded and likely less understanding than myself.

[wallymann]

follow up Q - if that is your general rule of thumb for mounting tires with/without tubes...why?

totally concur with this approach for tubed setups.

tubeless is different in soooo many ways.

[mod6]

My personal policy is to have gear that I can service on the road.
I don't mind having to use tire levers to change a flat (that is what they are for), but if it comes to breaking tire levers and pinching tubes I give the rims and/or tires a DQ.
I am good at changing tires. If a rim/tire combo is difficult for me I shudder to think of how it will be for the person with less skill, patience, hand strength, etc.- they will be stranded and likely less understanding than myself.


John

SL23 V1 are a nice riding rim but I agree anything I have mounted on the that rim has been a PIA. Tubeless was great but if you got a flat no way it was going to get fixed on the road. Switched to some conti 25c couple of tubes and tire irons they were mounted. Running sealant in the tubes fingers crossed I don't get a flat or the wife getting a call:no:

[tptplay]

Just curious if anyone has set up regular belgium c2 rims tubeless for cross? I've done some searching but haven't seen much for the non "plus" versions. I would probably stick to tubeless ready tires.