History of Master US frame Builders please

[Smiley]

A couple of weeks ago some one had posted and I responded about the lineage of IF and Seven and Sir e-Ritchie responded to me personally about how Chris Chance and others all kind of started together . I would really like to know since Ben Serotta also started at Witcomb too if Ritchie , Chance and for that matter Peter Weigle all started working together and how their paths have crossed one another. Any historians out there or would e-Ritchie care to set some time lines for us. Also never mentioned here is Peter Weigle who is just up the road from Ritchie and my guess both are good buddies ..right ? why no love for his bikes.

[bags27]

Well, Smiley, there must be SOME love for Peter's bikes, because I have at least a year's wait for mine. He and e-RICHIE are good buddies, according to both of them (e-RICHIE on a previous thread; Peter Weigle mentioned it when we talked about my future bike).

But you raise an extremely important question. I dabble (don't do it really: I'm an achival/literary source historian) in oral history. And we all know how quickly, alas, these rich traditions fade or are blurred beyond any accurate recall. It would not be hard to do oral interviews with the top frame makes in the U.S. and establish an on-line archive. Maybe a small grant from one or more of the wealthier companies plus a little space under their web site. As I said, I have a pretty good sense of how oral interviews are framed, and could get some help from professional oral historians. Maybe other forum contributors know a lot more and could organize this. But this is really a peak moment for this.

I'm editing this to add the following: there are interviews and then there are interviews designed by oral historians and intended to become oral history. These latter are much richer and more provocative, readily usable in any type of professional account. If someone is going to go to the trouble of interviewing, they should be this type.

[e-RICHIE]

see next post

[e-RICHIE]

cliff notes:

peter and i met in london while working/learning at witcomb.
witcomb was concurrently working with some 'mericans to
represent their goods here. the head yank had the witcomb
name registered in the states only - this to protect his investment.
the entire deal's success was predicated upon the brits
having their brand on some factory-in-wales-made bicycles.
i.e. the custom frames were just goin' to be icing on the cake;
the welsh bicycles were the price point winners.

peter and i arrived in connecticut and worked at witcomb usa
for almost a year before our nascent skills were called into
use. the call came because the brits couldn't supply the goods
the boss needed to survive. he ultimately severed his ties and
had peter/me make witcomb usa frames.

it was the two of us. about a year later we hired gary sinkus,
and he was there only until bikecentennial in late 76. around
75 we hired this young guy - chris chance - and showed him
paint prep, braze-ons, and general entry level stuff. chris was
a tough hire because the boss wanted local folks to do after
school work and not be like the bike geeks that he was already
paying!!!

i remember chris as being a painfully slow learner but incred-
ibly fastidious and eager. he had the right amount of zeal and
yankee ingenuity. we nicknamed him "risky" for reasons that
now escape me.

he left in 78, i think. his frame shops spawned merlin, one-off,
seven, IF, an maybe others.

peter and i often joke that it was fortunate that the apple fell
far, very far, from the tree.

e-RICHIE

[Kevan]

I just got the most recent issue of Bicycle Guide.

[bulliedawg]

I still have my eleven-year-old Yo Eddy! I never get to ride the durn thing; but I rode it like crazy when I used to live in Waynesville. It is without question my favorite bike of all time. The thing literally comes to life in a good way. Is their anyone else out there who's building steel bikes with those alumumum-sized tubes?

Richie: Do you know what happened to Chris Chance? I hope he found happiness...becasue the Yo Eddy! showed my plenty.

[bags27]

e-Richie, that's a wonderful start.
There's so much more that we would want to hear, even from this short piece. For example, we'd love to know what exactly you were "learning" at Witcom; how many frames you were expected to turn out; whether you and Peter ever thought of subverting the system by modifying or experimenting with design; in what ways did you begin to have a vision of excellence (should we say "brilliance"?) that got you through the isolation and uncertainty of owning a one-man shop; and we all would love to press you on precisely what you meant by that last remark about the apple: are we to read it as a criticism of "corporate cycling" (Seven, IF, Merlin, etc.) or is it just that you and Peter fell far from your own trees? And, to be pedantic, fortuitous means "accidental": do you mean that or do you mean fortunate (lucky)?

Sorry for all that: I'm in an academic mode (not my most attractive side), and just wanted to demonstrate that additional information can be pulled out when there is give-and-take in an oral interview. Imagine if we could do as Smiley suggested, and create a history of the great frame makers?

[e-RICHIE]

http://richardsachs.blogspot.com/

e-RICHIE

ps

that's all i have time for!

[Smiley]

I know he also went to England and worked for Witcomb too, its there he learned the trade. Bags27 I am with you here, I am like a sponge wanting to learn where all these guys came from. As far as Chris Chance is concerned he really is an interesting guy and had some really great design ideas as far as his Yo Eddy was concerned. It was truly a break through mtb that people that fit* this frame would then rave about how well this bike would climb. Then he had his forray with suspension in the ShockaBilly and that was a machine to see. I need more , much more.

* Yo Eddy's had really long Top tubes compared to the rest of the bikes out there then. Chris Chance has a long Torso so that figures.

[bfd]

Admittedly, Witcomb, Richard Sachs, Ben Serotta, Peter Weigle and Chris Chance are arguably some of the finest steel frame builders in the US, there are *other *steel framebuilders in the US.

In Northern California, we also have our share of "Master" framebuilders, including, but not limited to: Albert Eisentraut (Godfather of American framebuilders), Bruce Gordon, Richard Moon, Bernie Mikkelsen, Ed Litton, Brent Steelman, Peter Johnson, Steve Rex, Chris Kelly, Sycip Brothers, and maybe Tom Ritchey (if he still builds frames).

For more US frame builders, go here:

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA/USA.htm

[OldDog]

So many fine bikes...so little time.

[e-RICHIE]

bags27 wrote:
"And, to be pedantic, fortuitous means "accidental": do you mean that or do you mean fortunate (lucky)?"


my mistake. the ripple effect was complete serendipity.
i often wonder what and who would be if our boss stuck
to his guns and made us hire local folk to work after school,
rather than giving in to us and conceding to our hiring of chris.
things happen for a reason.

e-RICHIE

ps

???
???
???

[bags27]

Thanks for clarifying, e-RICHIE, and thanks so much for your blog site: that's an amazing collection. You're really an historian at heart!

[rounder]

cliff notes:

peter and i met in london while working/learning at witcomb.
witcomb was concurrently working with some 'mericans to
represent their goods here. the head yank had the witcomb
name registered in the states only - this to protect his investment.
the entire deal's success was predicated upon the brits
having their brand on some factory-in-wales-made bicycles.
i.e. the custom frames were just goin' to be icing on the cake;
the welsh bicycles were the price point winners.

peter and i arrived in connecticut and worked at witcomb usa
for almost a year before our nascent skills were called into
use. the call came because the brits couldn't supply the goods
the boss needed to survive. he ultimately severed his ties and
had peter/me make witcomb usa frames.

it was the two of us. about a year later we hired gary sinkus,
and he was there only until bikecentennial in late 76. around
75 we hired this young guy - chris chance - and showed him
paint prep, braze-ons, and general entry level stuff. chris was
a tough hire because the boss wanted local folks to do after
school work and not be like the bike geeks that he was already
paying!!!

i remember chris as being a painfully slow learner but incred-
ibly fastidious and eager. he had the right amount of zeal and
yankee ingenuity. we nicknamed him "risky" for reasons that
now escape me.

he left in 78, i think. his frame shops spawned merlin, one-off,
seven, IF, an maybe others.

peter and i often joke that it was fortunate that the apple fell
far, very far, from the tree.

e-RICHIE

That was good. Thanks.