Dirt road drop handlebars? (And bar-end shifters vs. brifters; brakes?)

[mhespenheide]

As the summer approaches, I'm moving an old project closer to the front of the queue... I've got an old Ritchey "Ultra" mountain bike (circa 95-96?), fully rigid, that I'd like to put back together in the super-gravel/monstercross style. The goal is to build something where the primary purpose is to ride the miles and miles of forest service roads here in Washington state, including some double-track, but only rarely singletrack (and only smooth singletrack, at that). The bike has eyelets that I might press into service for racks and do some light overnights as well...

I'm primarily looking for feedback on the new-ish crop of flared drop bars like the Salsa Woodchipper or the One-One Midge bar. Does anyone here ride them? I've also already got a pair of Nitto Noodles in the 48cm width, so I might go with those as an alternative.

Secondarily, what do people recommend for rim brakes for this style of bike. Discs are out; the frame has canti-bosses and I'm not switching out of that. I've got a LeMond Poprad that I'm running brifters and tektro mini-V brakes on and it seems like the brakes are touchy in terms of getting adequate clearance but not bottoming out the levers against the handlebar. I've got some old Dia-Compe 287 levers and bar-end shifters in the parts bin; should I go with that combination? Or am I missing something in setting up brakes properly with brake/shifter levers designed for the cable pull of road bikes?

Thanks for any input.

[pinkshogun]

Retroshift or Gevenalle

Gevenalle.com

i use them. the lever is a bit cheap (Tektro) but they have adequate braking and shift very good....mini vees do work

[Ken Robb]

I ride my 1989 MB-3 with the Shimano cantis is came with. I swapped the flat bars for some pull-back "Priest" bars like Rivendell's current Albatross model. I have Paul cantis on my Strada Bianca with 9 speed Campy Ergo brifters and they work fine too.

[oliver1850]

I like bar end shifters on this type of bike. Cheap, reliable, no sharp bends in housing, and easy to shift in winter when wearing mittens.

I have a similar vintage Fisher MTB that I considered converting to 700c. Its seat stay bridge is drilled so that I could use medium reach road calipers, but a lot of MTB frames aren't drilled. I have a couple of bikes running 35 - 38 knobbies and vintage calipers, early DA on one and Sachs on the other. They work fine for the kind of dry riding I do.

[sandyrs]

Handlebar-wise, have you considered just getting regular old road handlebars instead of the very flared "dirt drop" style? If your riding isn't very technical they might be all you require.

[mhespenheide]

I ride my 1989 MB-3 with the Shimano cantis is came with. I swapped the flat bars for some pull-back "Priest" bars like Rivendell's current Albatross model. I have Paul cantis on my Strada Bianca with 9 speed Campy Ergo brifters and they work fine too.

Ken,

Do you feel like you're getting adequate braking power? (I guess so, since you're saying they work fine.) My 'cross bike has ultegra brake/shift levers and FSA canti's and the braking power never feels that strong.

[choke]

I converted an old MTB and went with the Midge. I think it's pretty comfortable and I'm happy with how it turned out. I had originally purchased a WTB bar but found that bar-ends wouldn't work with it.

http://scapin.ciocctoo.com/sc1.JPG

[mhespenheide]

Handlebar-wise, have you considered just getting regular old road handlebars instead of the very flared "dirt drop" style? If your riding isn't very technical they might be all you require.

Sandy,

That's what I'm considering, pretty strongly, with the Nitto Noodle bars. Unless a bunch of people chime in that the flared drops are the way to go, I'll probably use those -- at least to start, even if I change it up later.

[mhespenheide]

I like bar end shifters on this type of bike. Cheap, reliable, no sharp bends in housing, and easy to shift in winter when wearing mittens.


I definitely like the simple/reliable part of bar-end shifters.

[mhespenheide]

http://scapin.ciocctoo.com/sc1.JPG

Choke,

Campy... centaur, was it called? In the Mojave?

That's awesome.

[choke]

Choke,

Campy... centaur, was it called? In the Mojave?

That's awesome.Thanks. You are close, it's Campy Euclid. And that was taken about 5 miles from home in central WY.

I think the flared drops are a must, but then I like them enough that I'm running Bell Laps on a couple of other bikes.

[jr59]

I converted an old MTB and went with the Midge. I think it's pretty comfortable and I'm happy with how it turned out. I had originally purchased a WTB bar but found that bar-ends wouldn't work with it.

http://scapin.ciocctoo.com/sc1.JPG

That is a very nice looking set up!

I use the Dirt drops on my Straggler. I sort of got talked into trying them. I'm glad I did. I like them a lot. I use brifters on mine. I have down tube on a few bikes as well as bar ends on the touring bike, and Brifters on about 5 others.

I like the way the grifters set my hands and wrist on the dirt drops.

[witcombusa]

You'll love this format for the intended use. I've had this set up for a few years now, work great :banana:
'89 Specialized Stumpjumper Team

[dcama5]

This is my DeSalvo gravel grinder. I used Shimano Dura Ace bar ends. Shifts perfectly in a lot of conditions. It had Nitto Randonneur bars that I was not 100% sold on, so I switched to short and shallow. Bike gets more road use than gravel use because my wife hates to ride in gravel. Oh well...

[HillDancer]

I suggest a wide flat bar, 685mm or greater. Improved control on loose surfaces over drop bars, even 48c wide drop bars. Short stem, or if quill type, Nitto's riser as shown in choke's image comes in 80mm, with both 25.4 & 26mm clamp models.

Dedicated long pull levers for V-brakes are better suited than short pull integrated or hooded road style. Microshift thumb shifters, trigger shifters, or my favorite, grip shifter.

[Ken Robb]

My cantis provide plenty of power. My Riv Allrounder has cantis too with Shimano road levers on Nitto Moustache bars on Nitto Dirt Drop stem. You might like this bar too.

[Kirk007]

I love the Salsa cowbell shape.

[JAGI410]

I love the Salsa cowbell shape.

Me too. I've heard rumors that a Cowbell/Woodchipper hybrid is coming from Salsa and if true, I need it.

Edit: Cowchipper!!! http://www.aebike.com/Salsa-Cowchipper-Drop-Bar-318-46cm_p_83694.html

[danielpack22@ma]

On a related note... I'm considering picking up a used 29er frame to set up as a drop bar monster cross type bike. As I ride a 56 - 57 top tube road bike I'm thinking that a 17 or 18 inch frame would work with a short stem.
Is this the correct approach?
What do you think?

[commonguy001]

I love the Salsa cowbell shape.

Me three
These bars are awesome and if I were building a drop bar MTB would totally use them. 44cm into the cowbells are super wide at the drops so I'd probably stick with that size. Running 42cm on my Warbird and they're about perfect.

[Ken Robb]

You'll love this format for the intended use. I've had this set up for a few years now, work great :banana:
'89 Specialized Stumpjumper Team

This is such a blast from the past for me. My best riding pal had one just like this (with the flat bars as built) and I had my MB-3 in 1990. We would meet at his restaurant for a big breakfast when the cooks arrived at 7am and then head off to local trails for a couple of hours. We were considered oddities in those early days of mtn. biking.

[binouye]

I've used the Salsa Woodchippers, Cowbells, and OnOne Midge. YMMV, but I sold the cowbells, gave away the Midge, and still ride the Woodchipper bars. With Centaur 10, and now Athena 11 ergos. My memory is that the midge shape didn't make as nice a ramp with the ergos -- wouldn't matter if you're using barends though. And the Midge puts the brake levers in a less vertical orientation, more flared. I decided I didn't like that, but it works for other people. Cowbells and woodchippers both worked better with ergos, between the two just personal preference for shape, whether the flare starts up in the curve or lower down.

[mhespenheide]

It looks like the "cowchipper" bars are only going to be available in 31.8mm diameter. I might hold off on those; the Ritchey has a 1" threaded steerer and I'd like to stick with a quill stem and preferably either a Ritchey or Salsa stem at that, for no good logical reason other than 'correctness'.

The 25.4mm Midges are cheap from Planet X right now, so I might pick up a pair to try them out.

Soma is evidently making a similar bar in 25.4mm in silver called the Portola for $60 that's the same shape as their Junebug bar. I don't know how it's different than the other options.

[mhespenheide]

I've used the Salsa Woodchippers, Cowbells, and OnOne Midge. YMMV, but I sold the cowbells, gave away the Midge, and still ride the Woodchipper bars. With Centaur 10, and now Athena 11 ergos. My memory is that the midge shape didn't make as nice a ramp with the ergos -- wouldn't matter if you're using barends though. And the Midge puts the brake levers in a less vertical orientation, more flared. I decided I didn't like that, but it works for other people. Cowbells and woodchippers both worked better with ergos, between the two just personal preference for shape, whether the flare starts up in the curve or lower down.

Thanks for your input. I'm afraid that you're right that it's personal preference... and these types of bars aren't something you can wander down to most LBS and check out.

[mhespenheide]

On a related note... I'm considering picking up a used 29er frame to set up as a drop bar monster cross type bike. As I ride a 56 - 57 top tube road bike I'm thinking that a 17 or 18 inch frame would work with a short stem.
Is this the correct approach?
What do you think?

Daniel,

I think it would depend what you're looking for. You're describing a 29er with drop bars -- and there are some of those out there, particularly among the bikepacking or Continental Divide race folks.

I'm looking for something more like a road-ish bike that's dirt-capable, and the 1990-era Ritchey Utlra (and the Somic and Specializeds) come from a time that mountain bikes hadn't diverged as from road bikes. The Ritchey, for example, has a 74-degree seat tube angle and 70-degree head angle. Within 5-10 minutes of riding it, it feels pretty good. Personally, I don't think I'd be as comfortable on a converted modern 29'er -- but then, I don't ride a modern 29'er, regularly/at all, either.

If you ride a modern 29'er regularly and like its geometry, there's no reason it wouldn't work for you with drop bars (and a different stem).

That said, if you like the more standard road-ish geometry, I'd look for one of the early-era mountain bikes. If you can find one in good condition, they're often ridiculously cheap on the used market.

[JAGI410]

It looks like the "cowchipper" bars are only going to be available in 31.8mm diameter. I might hold off on those

I ordered one just for the hell of it, should be waiting at the shop for me when I get back this weekend.

[kingpin75s]

IMHO the Cowbells are a great fit for what you are looking for. All of my "road" bikes run either Cowbells or 3T Ergonova Stealth when I want carbon and will accept half the flare (6 vs. 12 degrees).

The flare along with the short drop make for comfortable and very accessible drops. I will often size up to 44cm from my traditional road 42cm width when I want a little more stability for B-roads.

The Woodchippers are my favorite off road bars as well but I run them high on LD or 53 degree rise stems (Salsa P7/P10 threadless replicas) to be exclusively in the drops for technical riding and my wrists thank me.

Both bars can use a little gel padding or extra wrap for comfort as they do not absorb the chatter the way the 3T carbon bars do.

I run the 9sp DA bar-end shifters on almost everything road and mountain now so I am very used to bar end shifting under all conditions.

They are worth a try but YMMV!

[mhespenheide]

Kingpin,

I think that's a great recommendation for running 31.8mm bars. I'm working with a 1" steel fork that takes quill stems, so I'll need to use 25.4mm or 26mm bars. At this point I'll probably start out with the Nitto Noodles in 48cm wide (I usually ride with 46mm wide bars on the roads).

(On the other hand, a grail frame just showed up on the Portland CL. Decisions, decisions...)

[JAGI410]

The Cowchipper is pretty rad. It's the same drop and reach of the woodchipper, with the more "normal" flare of the Cowbell. I put it on my Steamroller, and the extra width helps with leverage. It would be the ideal "alt" drop bar for gravel or mtb riding for me personally.

[mtb_frk]

Figured I would bump this thread up now that the cowchippers have been out for a while. Anyone that has tried them how do you like them? I am looking for a set to try out but it sounds like they are back ordered until May.

(If anyone has some they don't want let me know!)

[mhespenheide]

Personally, I got distracted by other projects, but it's still on the back burner. I'm trying to keep my eyes open for some Salsa Cowchippers in 46cm, but they seem sold out everywhere.

Still curious as to anyone else's efforts...

[mtb_frk]

I was at the lbs today and they checked qbp which said May. :(

[sfhbike]

Any updates to this thread? I'm interested in putting Cowchippers on my Surly Disc Trucker. Unfortunately, they are sold out everywhere again. If anyone has 40 or 42 they'd like to part with, let me know.

Also, I have Soma Portola 53cm for sale here: http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=2016511#post2016511

[guido]

Would these work for you?

Dajia Far Bar

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/handlebars/grand-cru-course-handlebar-classic-round-bend-1682.html

The come in black or silver. 31.8 clamp size. See like a decent shape...

I'm thinking of trying them if my flirtation with the Jones H bar doesn't work out...

[rmplum]

It's my favorite.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1648/26375889865_75e2217b5f_b.jpg

https://c5.staticflickr.com/2/1523/26283586812_9b042fc096_b.jpg

On a more modern build:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7312/10233312953_635ac447d3_b.jpg

[sfhbike]

Would these work for you?

Dajia Far Bar

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/handlebars/grand-cru-course-handlebar-classic-round-bend-1682.html

The come in black or silver. 31.8 clamp size. See like a decent shape...

I'm thinking of trying them if my flirtation with the Jones H bar doesn't work out...

I've considered those as well. They're not bad, though I prefer less angled curves and more of a flat part for the swept back portion. The 44 might be a little wide for me, and it seems like the brake angle is still pretty flared. I like the flat top though.

Since I'm looking to use these not as dirt drops but as all around commuter, tourer, some gravel, etc., I need a bar that is good on the hoods and drops. The midge, portola and other more classic dirt drop designs don't work. They're comfortable in the drops, but didn't work out well on the hoods.

It seems like something like the Cowchipper or Dajia fit the bill best, especially for comfort on the hoods where they can be fit more like a road bar.

[jtbadge]

The set of Cowchipper bars I had on my Space Horse really worked well for that situation. Flat tops/hoods like the Cowbell, but with a little more flare in the drops. Traded them, would like them back. The measurement Salsa labels them with is width c-c at the hoods, which is really the most valuable specification.

I have used Gevenalle/Retroshift V-brake compatible shifter/brake levers for over a year on the same bike and cannot recommend them enough.

[sfhbike]

The set of Cowchipper bars I had on my Space Horse really worked well for that situation. Flat tops/hoods like the Cowbell, but with a little more flare in the drops. Traded them, would like them back. The measurement Salsa labels them with is width c-c at the hoods, which is really the most valuable specification.

I have used Gevenalle/Retroshift V-brake compatible shifter/brake levers for over a year on the same bike and cannot recommend them enough.

Any tips for sizing Cowchippers? I ride 40s on my road bike, and I think have about 40 shoulders. Should I stick with a 40 or go for 42? My Surly came stock with 42 bars, so I'm going to try them out for a while and see how they feel.

[jtbadge]

Any tips for sizing Cowchippers? I ride 40s on my road bike, and I think have about 40 shoulders. Should I stick with a 40 or go for 42? My Surly came stock with 42 bars, so I'm going to try them out for a while and see how they feel.

I mean, I would go with the same measurement as your road bars C-C so you keep the same spacing between the brake hoods.

[stephenmarklay]

I tried to do this on my commute bike but the bikes top tube was just way too long. I could not get an acceptable reach even with a 70mm stem.

It looked cool and would have been the bomb for a guy with a few inches on me.

[sfhbike]

I tried to do this on my commute bike but the bikes top tube was just way too long. I could not get an acceptable reach even with a 70mm stem.

It looked cool and would have been the bomb for a guy with a few inches on me.

Do you have ordinary drops or flat bars on your commuter regularly?

[benb]

I was just going to add.. I'm finding SRAM brifters a bit better than Shimano with my TRP CX9s.

Still nowhere near as good as V-brakes with flat bar levers though.

[stephenmarklay]

Do you have ordinary drops or flat bars on your commuter regularly?


I was running a riser sale MTB bar. I had a little get off and the stem got tweaked so I measured twice and bought everything. It looked ok on paper but the dirt drop bars did not have very flat ramps and I was just too stretched out.

So after that I put some swept bars on it along with MTB shifters and brake levers but aside from going a few blocks to the community pool or gym I am not super happy with this either. Next is back to a small rise MTB bar with less sweep.

[JAGI410]

I'm loving Cowchippers. I went with the 46s and felt I made the right choice. Seems a little wide coming from a "normal" 44cm bar, but it is amazingly comfortable. I'm running bar end shifters as well, so the drops are super long, which offers up a few different hand positions.

[jtbadge]

I was just going to add.. I'm finding SRAM brifters a bit better than Shimano with my TRP CX9s.

I use my CX9s with V-brake levers. CX8.4 is what's up with STI/DoubleTap.