Effetto Mariposa Carogna tubular tape

[danield]

Anyone tried the new Carogna tubular tape? http://www.effettomariposa.eu/en/products/carogna-family/carogna/
I see it's now available from an Amazon seller.

I've had success with Tufo tape when used with tufo tires on clean alloy rims for both road and track, but the Carogna stuff claims to be a novel design and work with all tires...

:beer:

[austex]

Leonard Zinn has:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/05/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq/technical-faq-tape-for-tubulars-latex-tubes-and-more_370761

[sparky33]

I like Zinn's video demonstration. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAmmGDkyWow)

I would love to see someone remove the tape clean from the rim because I'm still a bit scarred from struggling to remove belgian/cxworld tape. Zinn shows a still picture of this, but I almost don't believe it.

[danield]

many thanks -- not sure how my googling missed that...

[sparky33]

Anyone tried the new Carogna tubular tape? http://www.effettomariposa.eu/en/products/carogna-family/carogna/


The description says it is "Permanent on the tubular side". Interesting, I wonder if that would allow a tubular to be re-mounted...maybe after repairing a puncture. That said, I've had good luck with sealant and haven't actually ever, in my limited experience, needed to repair the tube of a tubular.

[ultraman6970]

Unless you have really bad luck to bust a moderately used tubular, when you start getting punctures is because the tubbie is already ready to leave you, you know.

[Jaq]

Here's the vid from the velo article. (https://youtu.be/DAmmGDkyWow)

Looks interesting. I usually glue, but keep tape for spares. I'm not nearly fast/good/young enough to care about higher rolling resistance in tubulars, or tubulars with tape, but I wonder if the thickness of the this tape raises it much.

[binouye]

Zinn's video makes it look almost easy enough for me to finally give tubulars a try. Next time a sweet tubular wheelset pops up in the classifieds, hmmm.......... and with Caffelatex as sealant, Effeto Mariposa is removing arguments against going tubular.

[kgreene10]

I'm the reader who sent in the question to Lennard and, as always, I'm super impressed with his helpful response. I'll be trying the tape but won't get a chance until the beginning of July. If anyone here does before, please post about your experience.

[eBAUMANN]

any updates?

i just discovered this tape on qbp and will be ordering some asap.

good riddance mastik!

[Climb01742]

any updates?

i just discovered this tape on qbp and will be ordering some asap.

good riddance mastik!

Once you use it, will you give us a report? Would love to know if it lives up to claims. Thanks!

[oldpotatoe]

The description says it is "Permanent on the tubular side". Interesting, I wonder if that would allow a tubular to be re-mounted...maybe after repairing a puncture. That said, I've had good luck with sealant and haven't actually ever, in my limited experience, needed to repair the tube of a tubular.

Wouldn't use it on a (carbon) wheel with hidden nipples. Cuz not fun to throw away a perfectly good tubie because you had to true a wheel. I haven't used this or any tape but I suspect you could glue the tire with the permanent tape on it..not sure tho.

[bmeryman]

I bought some of this off of QBP about a month ago to use for a ss road bike that I was impatient to put together. Mavic Reflex rims, Challenge Paris Roubaix tires. It was a really easy experience and so far seems to be holding up as advertised. Of course, it's only been a month and I have too many bikes to ride any one of them all that much. I really like the feel of the tires, but I haven't used the same tires glued normally, so it's difficult to compare to anything.

[tele]

My buddy and the guy who taught me the dark art of gluing tubulars a few years ago (along with OP technique), started using the Tufo tape this year and he wont go back to glue. He says he can do a tire in minutes and has been riding without issue all summer long. A glue user of 25+ years has been converted.

[slinkywizard]

I picked some up locally recently and plan to use it soon...The shop I got it from uses it pretty much exclusively for road and mtb use in combination with caffe latex sealant and swears by it. The translation of the name, apparently referring to the animal origin of glue in bygone times and meaning "putrifying corpse", is somewhat gross though..

[eBAUMANN]

for road use I'm tufo tape all the way...i just don't see the need for glue with a tire that small and pressure that high.

this stuff is interesting because of its off-road/cx abilities, the first of its kind really. I'm hopeful enough that I'm willing to try it out, would love to never have to deal with glue again...

also their glue cleaning product sounds amazing, takes old glue clean off the rim after a few hours of soak-time, allegedly.

:hello:

[eBAUMANN]

I picked some up locally recently and plan to use it soon...The shop I got it from uses it pretty much exclusively for road and mtg use in combination with the caffe latex sealant and swears by it. The translation of the name, apparently referring to the animal origin of glue in bygone times and meaning "putrifying corpse", is somewhat gross though...

In several areas in Italy, "Carogna" (meaning: corpse in putrefaction) was the old name for tubular mastic, as mastic smells bad and is gooey. Carogna: a historical, funny name for a modern product that serves the same purpose of smelly old mastic. in a clean, fast and odorless way!!

[slinkywizard]

the italian wikipedia entry for "carogna" comes up with this cute picture:

"warning: viewer discretion is advised due to the explicit nature of the content"

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carogna#/media/File:WedgetailEagleCarrion.jpg

[kgreene10]

Just got my Carogna tape today and will be applying it soon to virgin tubulars. My plan is to let it adhere and then bring it to the LBS for inspection. I'll report back.

[eBAUMANN]

Just got my Carogna tape today and will be applying it soon to virgin tubulars. My plan is to let it adhere and then shred some local singletrack for inspection. I'll report back.

FTFY :bike:

Im ordering some today, along with their mastik remover - very curious to see how well that stuff works.

[sandyrs]

I ordered some today as well. This thread reminded me of its existence right as I started to get nauseous thinking of gluing my tires in my apartment like I did last year.

[chrispino]

Ordered some as well!

Praying this stuff is as good as it sounds. Will be a godsend if so!

Gluing MXP's to some Ardennes. Fingers crossed I don't roll both tires first turn:beer:

[Climb01742]

As soon as someone uses this tape, please report back!:beer::D

[bobswire]

the italian wikipedia entry for "carogna" comes up with this cute picture:
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carogna#/media/File:WedgetailEagleCarrion.jpg

You should issue a "warning",unless one is a meat eater of course,in which case if may be appealing. ;)

[slinkywizard]

You should issue a "warning",unless one is a meat eater of course,in which case if may be appealing. ;)

done...;)

[chiasticon]

ordered some too. will report back after usage. ordered their cleaning solvent goop as well. see how that works on old dried to hell mastik...

[CSKeller]

and love it!! Put it on my new Enve 4.5 SES wheels built by Ergott. Probably have 250+ miles on them and it feels great. so easy and no issues so far (knock on wood). I bought a shop roll from Cantitoe Road so that's enough to do 8 wheels.

I was using Vittoria Mastic which works great too...just a bit more time consuming because it requires waiting a day or two.

[Climb01742]

where are you folks ordering the tape and cleaning solvent from? thx!

[LJohnny]

ordered some too. will report back after usage. ordered their cleaning solvent goop as well. see how that works on old dried to hell mastik...


Try De-solv-It I have successfully used to clean glue and tape off both carbon and alloy tubulars. Zero toxic fumes and takes just as much or even less elbow grease compared to those fumey spirits.


Sent from my brain

[kgreene10]

where are you folks ordering the tape and cleaning solvent from? thx!

Amazon or direct from the US distributor, Cantitoe Road.

[sandyrs]

So I used the dissolving solvent. It was still a chore to clean the rims and they didn't come out perfect but it does soften up the glue nicely. On vittoria mastik it needed more than 12 hours though. More like 24 but there was a ton of glue on there.

Racing two Carogna'd tires this weekend. I'll report back. I took the rear to the Wednesday night training session this week and it held just fine. I didn't have the front ready yet but I just took it out for a quick lunch ride in the woods near my office and it was all good.

[kgreene10]

Looking forward to hearing how it goes. Good luck this weekend.

[sandyrs]

Looking forward to hearing how it goes. Good luck this weekend.

Thanks!

[chiasticon]

So I used the dissolving solvent. It was still a chore to clean the rims and they didn't come out perfect but it does soften up the glue nicely. On vittoria mastik it needed more than 12 hours though. More like 24 but there was a ton of glue on there.
had similar results with the dissolving solvent so far. approach was basically brush it on, wait 24 hours, use a screwdriver to scrape off the real thick glue. then goo gone and a rag and some elbow-grease to get through the rest. wasn't TOO bad, but not as easy as they make it sound either. it helps for sure and it's super easy to apply and just wait, obviously. I was just hoping it was even easier, I guess.

I'm gonna soak the other wheel in the solvent for much longer (several days). see how that goes...

[sandyrs]

So I raced both days this weekend on just a taped rear wheel. I flatted the front tire (nothing to do with the tape, of course) on my first warmup lap Saturday. RIP Rocket Ron.

Anyway, the tape held great. No issues on two courses with plenty of opportunity for a poorly glued tire to roll (and roll one did, completely off its owner's rim, according to my girlfriend's account). I'm not the most graceful when I'm in the red, and I weigh 190, so a bad remount on a slightly off camber section can really test a rear tire's bond to the rim. So far, so good. Obviously, two races are not enough to declare the tape an unmitigated success, but it hasn't failed yet either.

Now, to try to get my flatted tire off the rim before my next races the weekend of the 12th!

[kgreene10]

Thank you for the really helpful report.

How did the race go?

[sandyrs]

Thank you for the really helpful report.

How did the race go?

Saturday was a disaster thanks to the pre-race flat and scrambling to get a wheel then to the start line. I started in the back and still don't know how i finished but it was a really fun, hilly race and was great training, which is the point of these early season races anyway.

Sunday I got to the line on time and finished 14th out of 47 finishers/50-odd starters. Not an amazing result considering i'm a 4, but I'm really happy with it since I've started past seasons really badly, and I was on a WTB Nano 40mm front clincher to boot.

[redir]

'The idea of a tape that could chop hours off of attaching tubular tires yet would adhere just as well as a superior gluing job would obviously be a game-changer for tubular users for the reasons you list.
'
Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/05/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq/technical-faq-tape-for-tubulars-latex-tubes-and-more_370761#CJACWodVBQXhkFKF.99

Really? I know Zinn is a bike expert and all but I don't think it takes me more then 15-20 minutes to mount a tubular. Just did one the other night. It's not hard.

[chiasticon]

'The idea of a tape that could chop hours off of attaching tubular tires yet would adhere just as well as a superior gluing job would obviously be a game-changer for tubular users for the reasons you list.
'
Really? I know Zinn is a bike expert and all but I don't think it takes me more then 15-20 minutes to mount a tubular. Just did one the other night. It's not hard.
I believe zinn was talking about when you have several wheel sets to glue, not saying a single wheel/set takes hours.

just finished up my first set. cleaning the old glue off two wheels with their cleaner and some goo gone took about two hours. taping both wheels took about half an hour. so...not too bad. the taping part was an incredibly easy process. not gonna race 'em just yet but i'll practice with them this week and report back.

[chrispino]

First race on the taped wheels this weekend. Ran 25psi at the front of a 2/3/4 field and there were zero issues. Tons of severe off cambers and fast sweeping downhill turns. If there were coming off, they would have.

If the tape holds up for a season (20-25 races) I doubt I'll ever go back to glue.

Some tips on applying:

In the Velonews video it shows him trimming down the tape to fit the width of the rim. I still haven't found a good way to do this. I tried the xacto knife method and the tape broke about half way when pulling it out to glue down. After a mini panic attack the other side I hadn't trimmed was fine. The 2nd tire I thought I would try not cutting and peel the glue off afterwords. Tape didn't break but glue was veryyy hard to clean up. With this problem solved (hopefully they add more width options) I could mount 2 tires in under 10 minutes.

[kgreene10]

My first outing with Effetto Mariposa Carogna tubular tape was a total and very disappointing failure. I followed the directions included in the product and those provided by Lennard Zinn in his video to the letter.

Here is what I did:
1) Stretch brand new Vittoria CXIII tubulars on brand new Bontrager Aeolus 5 d3 rims for three weeks.
2) Clean rim surface and base tape of tubulars with isopropyl alcohol. Let dry.
3) Apply Carogna (M width) tape to each rim bed and then push down with a piece of plastic that mirrored the shape of the rim bed.
4) Peel back a bit of the pink contact tape.
5) Mount tubular, pump to 60psi, straighten, and then pull out the pink contact tape.
6) Inflate tubular to 150psi.
7) Leave mounted tubulars for 26 hours in the house with thermostat set at 81 degrees.

Then I brought them into my LBS to have them checked. Within five seconds, the mechanic said "no way". With the tires deflated, the tubular peels easily off the tape everywhere and the tape peels somewhat easily off the rim in at least several places.

Unfortunately, I can't race these in my A race tomorrow. In addition, I'm out the cost of the tape and, pending what happens with removal, I'll see how the brand new tires fare.

Any ideas about what might have gone wrong? I was sooooo excited about this product and it was actually part of my motivation for buying tubular wheels. I know that others have had very good experiences with Carogna. That obviously points to an error in my application, but I can稚 see what might have gone wrong. Please send me your thoughts.

[rwsaunders]

where are you folks ordering the tape and cleaning solvent from? thx!

I use Goof Off to remove old glue from the rims....Home Depot and others carry it. Buy a large bottle as depending on how many layer of glue are on the rim, it could take a while. I wear rubber gloves under an old sock and that does the trick. Soak, rub and repeat.

[sandyrs]

My first outing with Effetto Mariposa Carogna tubular tape was a total and very disappointing failure. I followed the directions included in the product and those provided by Lennard Zinn in his video to the letter.

Here is what I did:
1) Stretch brand new Vittoria CXIII tubulars on brand new Bontrager Aeolus 5 d3 rims for three weeks.
2) Clean rim surface and base tape of tubulars with isopropyl alcohol. Let dry.
3) Apply Carogna (M width) tape to each rim bed and then push down with a piece of plastic that mirrored the shape of the rim bed.
4) Peel back a bit of the pink contact tape.
5) Mount tubular, pump to 60psi, straighten, and then pull out the pink contact tape.
6) Inflate tubular to 150psi.
7) Leave mounted tubulars for 26 hours in the house with thermostat set at 81 degrees.

Then I brought them into my LBS to have them checked. Within five seconds, the mechanic said "no way". With the tires deflated, the tubular peels easily off the tape everywhere and the tape peels somewhat easily off the rim in at least several places.

Unfortunately, I can't race these in my A race tomorrow. In addition, I'm out the cost of the tape and, pending what happens with removal, I'll see how the brand new tires fare.

Any ideas about what might have gone wrong? I was sooooo excited about this product and it was actually part of my motivation for buying tubular wheels. I know that others have had very good experiences with Carogna. That obviously points to an error in my application, but I can稚 see what might have gone wrong. Please send me your thoughts.

Sounds like you did everything right. I've only used it on CX tubulars but that shouldn't make a difference. Another race on a freshly-taped wheel today (and one I've ridden a number of times already), another day without any failures. Sorry to hear it didn't work for you. Let us know if you determine a cause.

[oldpotatoe]

My first outing with Effetto Mariposa Carogna tubular tape was a total and very disappointing failure. I followed the directions included in the product and those provided by Lennard Zinn in his video to the letter.

Here is what I did:
1) Stretch brand new Vittoria CXIII tubulars on brand new Bontrager Aeolus 5 d3 rims for three weeks.
2) Clean rim surface and base tape of tubulars with isopropyl alcohol. Let dry.
3) Apply Carogna (M width) tape to each rim bed and then push down with a piece of plastic that mirrored the shape of the rim bed.
4) Peel back a bit of the pink contact tape.
5) Mount tubular, pump to 60psi, straighten, and then pull out the pink contact tape.
6) Inflate tubular to 150psi.
7) Leave mounted tubulars for 26 hours in the house with thermostat set at 81 degrees.

Then I brought them into my LBS to have them checked. Within five seconds, the mechanic said "no way". With the tires deflated, the tubular peels easily off the tape everywhere and the tape peels somewhat easily off the rim in at least several places.

Unfortunately, I can't race these in my A race tomorrow. In addition, I'm out the cost of the tape and, pending what happens with removal, I'll see how the brand new tires fare.

Any ideas about what might have gone wrong? I was sooooo excited about this product and it was actually part of my motivation for buying tubular wheels. I know that others have had very good experiences with Carogna. That obviously points to an error in my application, but I can稚 see what might have gone wrong. Please send me your thoughts.

Have the good bike wrench show you how to glue on tubulars, with a solvent brush and can of Vittoria or Panaracer.

Have no idea what went wrong either but from the list above..how is this 'easier' than just gluing the things on the 'old fashioned' way. BTW-hellofalot cheaper to just glue also.

'26 hours in a 81 degree room' funny. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Learn to glue, glue. Not rocket surgery.

[11.4]

Not dissimilar from our experiments with the stuff a couple months ago. We're going to keep trying, but it's been inconsistent. We still find that Mastik One beats all comers, every time. That's road, track, cross, and gluing up the family dog.

Also, GoofOff is a complex blend of light petrochemicals. Some of it just flashes right off quickly, some stays as a film on the rim. If you use it, always clean up afterwards with acetone. And it's just bought as a low-cost fraction in a refinery, so it varies from batch to batch. I've seen some that worked fine on carbon rims, then the next bottle damaged the resin. Life is too short. I stay away from it. I'll get a bottle of acetone, a bottle of methyl ethyl ketone, a bottle of toluene, etc. Home Depot carries them all. This stuff is all flammable (as is GoofOff), so be careful with it, and some is toxic on your skin or in your lungs (as is GoofOff). But at least you know what you're dealing with and results are reproducible.

[apeescape]

I've had issues with Vittoria's sticking in the past and now lightly scuff the base tape with sandpaper, then clean with acetone.

[sandyrs]

Another update- I rode a flat (had some air in it, maybe 4psi) rear tire most of a lap today and the tape held.

Seems like the general conclusion is that it *can* work really well, at least.

[kgreene10]

Yeah, there are enough positive reports that it clearly works for the vast majority of users. I'm really perplexed about what could have gone wrong in my case.

As it turns out, not even my beautiful tubulars could have saved me in today's race. Also perplexed about that -- my numbers were lower than my standard Saturday training ride and temps were lower but I cramped badly and finished sad and alone.

[chiasticon]

Have no idea what went wrong either but from the list above..how is this 'easier' than just gluing the things on the 'old fashioned' way.
for road, I wouldn't say that it is any easier than just a layer of glue on tire/rim and slapping together. for cross, it's definitely easier than three coats on each surface, plus tape, plus time, not to mention the nightmare of cleaning all of that off later...

did my first cross race on a set this past weekend, and I've got a couple practices into them as well. I'm not the hardest cornering guy for sure but in the race there were two uphill off-camber 180's that put a good deal of sideways stress on the tires. plus four wet sand pits. no issues so far.

wanted to mention too that I've actually taped a second set now with wider rims where I needed to trim the backing tape (the above set was the narrower tape, that I didn't have to trim) and I can echo what chrispino said: be very careful when trimming it that you don't leave little strands under the base tape which could be ripped when peeling back the backing. I ended up just cutting the glue away on the second tire and leaving the backing tape alone so it couldn't tear.

sucks that kgreene10's experience was so bad, but so far so good here (fingers crossed).

[chrispino]

Another update:

Had 2 insanely wet and muddy races last weekend (not me)
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/633/21275617210_51b34a9f8b_b.jpg

Bike and tires were soaked all day, both days, and has 2 full on power washes.
Ran about 21-22psi both days. No problems at all.

[eBAUMANN]

Just rode my first race on taped tires today, super dry but enough weighted/off camber/downhill cornering to judge its hold on the tire/rim. two thumbs up.

A couple tips for installation:

1 - when you pull back a little backing tape prior to mounting the tire, fold the tape over ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE WHEEL, not on opposing sides, otherwise you have to pull it completely under the tire which can dislodge the glue in that spot.

2 - be very careful when peeling the backing tape out...I ripped it several times on one wheel...it was tricky to fish it out and restart the peel while keeping the tire straight on the rim. Thankfully it was a Clement tire (impossible to mount crooked), had it been something floppy and cotton, that tread would be real crooked right now.

[kgreene10]

An update on my failed attempt to get the tape to work. It took a while to get in touch with the US distributor, Cantitoe Road, but that's probably because they were on the road to Interbike.

When I called back the very nice person who answered took my info and within 15 mins, I was on the phone with the owner calling me from the trade show floor. He took my story over to the owner of Effeto Mariposa who was also at Interbike.

They were both perplexed by the outcome I experienced given the steps I took. It sounds like I'll likely get another call early next week as they puzzle through it.

I'm VERY impressed that these guys took my story seriously and made the time while at a major trade show to communicate with me. I'll update again after I hear back. I suspect they will send me a couple new rolls of tape and I'll try again.

[denapista]

This stuff sounds god sent. I'm going to try it out on my new set of tubular wheels. If it proves better than Tufo Tape, I'll never go back to gluing again and all of my wheels will be Tubular wheels.

[Charles M]

Just saw this thread...

Zero issues for me.

I honestly think that prep is the biggest issue. There are difference in tire casings and rims that mean people should be taking a little more time to prep... If there is residue on the rim or the coating on the tire casing, the tape can potentially have issues that Glue will mask.


I had no issues at all with either Conti or Vittoria...

And I didn't get any place close to setting thermostats etc...

I cleaned the crap out of the rims and scuffed the base tape a lot and whipped them thoroughly (used several pieces of t shirt until residue was gone from the casing, though I honestly did leave some bits of mastik on the rim)...

Both wet weather and 110 dry and zero issues (running disc brakes and pushing things as well).


They have a rim cleaner now as well and I'm going to give that a try on the next tire swap...

[kgreene10]

Zero issues for me.
And I didn't get any place close to setting thermostats etc...

I'm in Austin, so what I meant was that my home thermostat is set to 81 so that we don't all perish in the heat. That was my way of saying that the glue cured within the temp range specified by Effeto Mariposa.

I've been in e-mail communication with the owner of Effeto Mariposa and Cantitoe Road, the US distributor. Both are very accessible and helpful. My experience remains a mystery, but two new rolls of Carogna are on there way to me with expedited shipping, all for free. Great and responsive customer service is the best.

I should have it by Wed and will let it cure until Fri -- a little extra time. I'll report back then and hopefully will have a set of rock solid tubies to race at States next weekend.

[Joxster]

With tape, when you fold over the backing paper I put a pencil under the tub and before the fold so as I peel off the backing tape the pencil raises the tub and makes the seating of it easier and quicker.

[seanile]

With tape, when you fold over the backing paper I put a pencil under the tub and before the fold so as I peel off the backing tape the pencil raises the tub and makes the seating of it easier and quicker.

wouldnt that move the tire and make the valve crooked by the time you made a full rotation?

[Vamoots58]

I love tubulars. I have never really minded the work of gluing, in fact, I used to enjoy it. There is something kinda 'old school' and 'not rushed' about the process (oh well, enough of the maudlin rambling). I have never been as enamored of the glue removal process. I ride carbon tubulars and always like to start with a perfectly clean rim. I ordered the Carogna glue remover. In retrospect, it was better than the acetone and elbow grease. The instructions on the remover say to apply and leave for 2-12 hours. I found I needed to leave it for more like 48. I used the curved end of a tire iron and while it did still take a fair amount of patience (and elbow grease) it worked pretty well! Mounting the tires with the tape was almost too easy. I did have an issue with the rear wheel with the plastic tape which kept breaking. Not a huge deal. Pumped the tires to 140 and let them sit for 24 hours before riding. I think Carogna is onto something here!! I was a little leery to try these with a brand new set of FMB Paris Roubaix Pros, but life's too short to ride crappy tires!!

[chiasticon]

FYI, I'd recommend periodically inspecting your "glue" job when using this tape. the first set of wheels I taped up were great and I raced 'em twice and practiced on 'em a few times. the bond seemed solid and I could deflate them and push on the tire without being able to start pulling it off. so, no issues. BUT then I hung 'em up and didn't ride 'em for a few weeks (they're challenge chicanes, and I did races those wouldn't work for). I kept them aired up and everything but then one day out of curiosity I deflated one, checked the bond again and was able to easily start peeling the tire away. I pulled it completely off in about three minutes with no tools and without breaking a sweat. same deal on the other wheel. even tires I've pulled that were Tufo taped put up more of a fight! note that these wheels/tires were never powerwashed or anything like that. again, challenge chicanes, so they saw no mud. they were hosed off (as in garden hose) once or twice though. that shouldn't have caused the bond to deteriorate so much though.

I have another wheelset taped up with these that I've only practiced on a couple times and it seems to be holding strong. there's a couple semi-weak areas but nothing like the other tires had. but with how easily those other tires came off, I'm definitely leery of racing them... think I'll hold off for the season and re-glue the tires the tried and true way next year.

how is the tape holding up for everybody else?

[jeduardo]

Just inherited a set of NOS F.I.R tubulars, and for the past few weeks I've been considering trying the tubular tape (SS DR bike not CX racing) instead of exercising the traditional glue ritual.
After reading through the thread, I ordered some of the Clement tubular tape.
I'm now a bit curious to learn if fellow, taped tubular, riders believe that this tape will function just as well as the Tufo, Velox, Effetto offerings being that they all cost approximately the same amount?

Hmmm...In hindsight, I probably should have posted this earlier:crap:

[Formulasaab]

I've now got 7 races and 10 practice sessions on my EMC taped tubulars. Actually, the first 3 races and 8 practices were on one set and the last 4 races and couple of practice sessions were on a separate set. I bought more wheels and so now have two full sets taped and ready to roll.

All wheels were previously used/glued so I spent hours removing all the old glue to get down to a good clean carbon surface.

Two of the tubulars were lightly used (with very little glue remaining on the tape) and two were new.

No problems with installation and no problems with "stick". I've put them through their paces, pushing them up to and beyond traction limits in corners at pressures from 25 to 35 psi (I typically run 30-32 rear and 26-28 front for races and a bit higher in practice).

I even had to pull one off to true a wheel that got stepped on in a crash in my first race of the season (how I wish my wheels didn't have stupid internal nipples). It didn't come off easy but also did not damage the base tape.

I've used Tufo tape before, and this stuff is worlds better. I'm done with gluing tires. I started out buying individual rolls of the stuff but just recently purchased the "shop roll".

[GParkes]

OK, I've run sew ups in the past - glued them, no problems. It's been a long time and I'm getting back into competition, predominantly tri's and TT'ing. Got a new (to me) set of HED stingers and was contemplating using tape simply because I won't be diving in to corners during a six turn crit with them. I actually have used TUFO tape on an older set of alloyed rims that I sold to a friend. He wanted to try it, so I mounted them with the tape for him, and the stuff held very well. My question here is does anyone know how the new TUFO tape is, and would it be wise to stick with what you know, or is the Effetto Mariposa Carogna all it's cracked up to be? Opinions anyone?

[11.4]

There seems to be a flurry of posts inquiring whether other taping systems are now going to work better. The reviews here -- good and not so -- have been about the Effete Mariposa Carogna, which has a unique design and unique adhesives. It's completely different from anything else currently in the market. Other products in the market such as Tufo are being revised but not to the degree that they offer the performance of EMC. They have always had some proponents, and that will continue, but these tapes have various limitations and I can't say I'd use them or encourage their use in any way.

As for EMC, I've seen some inconsistent performance, as have others. Sometimes it glues up very securely and lasts forever, other times it doesn't do as well. I suspect part of the problem has to do with whether the tire and rim in question have appropriately matching profiles. The tape isn't going to fix a mismatch in profile, and it'll still be a poor adhesive job. However, it's interesting that I did have one pair of wheels, brand new with new tubulars, just glued up, that after a couple days of use on the track showed areas of almost complete lack of adhesion on the rear wheel only. In looking at a few other cases on the road with a few riders using the tape, it appears that the rear wheel may be incurring most of the problems. Since front and rear would be inflated initially and afterwards maintained at reasonably close to the same pressures and storage conditions, I am guessing that the difference (and guessing at this point) that this tape may not heal from repeated separation as well as a liquid rim cement. Thus, if a rider doesn't ride so as to detach the edges of the tire from the rim, there won't be problems, but if a rider does so regularly -- crit racing, aggressive descending, or some track workouts -- it may not continue to heal. This would also explain the tires that start out glued well but that don't maintain adhesion over time. Entirely speculation at this point, and I'd like to hear from others who may have seen any tape failures and have any ideas about what caused it. I suspect the principal reason for tape adhesion problems is still the profile mismatch, but this may contribute. We have many years of broad experience when gluing with Mastik One -- we understand in detail how it acts and how it fails. It's far from failsafe or foolproof, and there's no reason to believe EMC would any different. So I keep experimenting with it. I'd encourage others to use it and develop more cumulative experience. I would encourage those who want to use Tufo or other tapes to switch to EMC. It does appear to be the best out there by a significant margin. I figure the cost will come down as it becomes established, but for now, use Mastik One or use EMC. My two cents' worth.

[chiasticon]

seems like a couple people raced all of cross season on this stuff with great success. do they want to weigh in?

reading back through this, I'm curious if my issues stemmed from using GooGone and/or DeSolvit to clean up the rims before applying the tape. I cleaned the rims with rubbing alcohol after using those solvents and gave time for everything to evaporate before installing the tape/tires. perhaps this wasn't enough and there were remnants of the citrus based, heavy duty solvents on the rim still, impeding the adhesion of the tape?

I noticed also that EM has updated their carogna product page with a guide for using it for cyclocross. they note that one should not scuff up their rims (though it doesn't sound like anyone here that had issues did that) and that one should also install north of 50 degrees and pump the tires up to max pressure. temperature and pressure make this stuff cure. I didn't do that. I didn't air up past 40 psi or so and I did everything in my basement, which is just above 50 degrees.

[mtb_frk]

Any updates, cx season is only a couple weeks away. I've used the mastik remover that EMC sells and it works quite good. I have been able to get down to a bare rim with limited effort. I have one roll of tape, I figured I would start with a rear wheel as the consequences of rolling it seem less.

[eBAUMANN]

Any updates, cx season is only a couple weeks away. I've used the mastik remover that EMC sells and it works quite good. I have been able to get down to a bare rim with limited effort. I have one roll of tape, I figured I would start with a rear wheel as the consequences of rolling it seem less.

chances of rolling are pretty slim. ive used it on a few wheels all last season with no issues and plan on racing those same wheels/tires again this year.

[ravdg316]

I've never used glue, and decided to use this tape when I got a steal on the old generation of Enve 4.5 tubulars. The tape has worked so well for me that I have decided to go all in on tubular tech. I even bought three additional pairs of Veloflex tubulars on ProBikeKit. I also find the tape makes it even easier to mount tires than on clinchers (after practicing a couple of times).

Not sure if this has been said, but those who may be having problems may have purchased the wrong width tape for their rims.

This tape makes me want to sell my other clincher wheelsets and just convert everything to tubulars. With the prices on Veloflex tubes on PBK at $55 per tire if you buy three (at least when I purchased them a few weeks ago), and the durability, longevity, and feel of Veloflex tubulars, I don't think I'll go back to clinchers on my main bike.

[Alaska Mike]

I've rolled a tubular on a narrow rim with Carogna tape during a crit. The rim wasn't perfectly clean and the design of the rim didn't match the tubular well (less contact area). On wider, cleaner, and/or better-designed rims, not a problem with the proper tape (so far).

On carbon rims, I've just decided to keep gluing the ones previously glued and tape the new ones. Even with the remover, it can be a chore to get them completely clean.

[mtb_frk]

Looks like I will be ordering some more tape. Thanks for the updates.

[kgreene10]

I started with brand new Bontrager Aeolus tubulars and brand new Vittoria CXIII tires. I followed directions assiduously and when the tape failed, I communicated with the US ditributor and the owner of Effeto Mariposa. (They were very nice and helpful.) Then I tried twice more -- in fact, the third time, a professional mechanic with years of experience on the pro tour did it in his house, not mine (i.e., the environment was different). The three tries spanned many months, so the weather was different too.

Total failure all three times.

The tire rolled off so easily that it took virtually no finger pressure to do it.

Since then, I know one person who has had perfect success and two experiences through the LBS that have been total failures.

There is something really, really weird going on with this product. I have no clue what it is and neither did the distributor nor the owner.

I really wanted to it to work and I really wish it had every time I have to deal with Mastik. Unfortunately, it was miles away from being minimally safe in my experiences.

[seanile]

odd, it was flawless for the wheelset i used it on.
now, i just can't figure out how to install a used tire with new tape without making it impossible to peel the purple tape cover out from between the rim and the tire. (the used tire has leftover glue on it from its previous tape job..i ruined the rim)

[oldpotatoe]

I started with brand new Bontrager Aeolus tubulars and brand new Vittoria CXIII tires. I followed directions assiduously and when the tape failed, I communicated with the US ditributor and the owner of Effeto Mariposa. (They were very nice and helpful.) Then I tried twice more -- in fact, the third time, a professional mechanic with years of experience on the pro tour did it in his house, not mine (i.e., the environment was different). The three tries spanned many months, so the weather was different too.

Total failure all three times.

The tire rolled off so easily that it took virtually no finger pressure to do it.

Since then, I know one person who has had perfect success and two experiences through the LBS that have been total failures.

There is something really, really weird going on with this product. I have no clue what it is and neither did the distributor nor the owner.

I really wanted to it to work and I really wish it had every time I have to deal with Mastik. Unfortunately, it was miles away from being minimally safe in my experiences.

Not a tape guy, never will be but this part makes me scratch my head..maybe they need to check batches or something?

I had a similar experience with this crap, major fail, like using no glue at all.

https://www.vittoria.com/accessories/road-accessory/magic-mastik

Except no email was ever answered..

Why I like and continue to use Panaracer..good enough for Keirin, good enough for me.

[11.4]

I've glued up a number of road wheels with EMC and used it for training purposes. That's not an application that tests the glue joint like racing a crit will do, and have had one bad wheel out of ten. Still have no idea why it happened, and I saved the scrap leftover of the roll and found it still wasn't working properly on another rim with another tire. However, I'd also say that for people who really want to use tape because their own gluing skills aren't first rate, it probably amounts to as good a gluing job for non-racing riders.

I'm ultimately in Tater's camp. Rim cement works really well and if you have the expertise to use it, there's nothing more reliable and versatile. For those who simply hate rim cement or don't have the skills with it (and for those who glue two or three tires a year and always end up with outdated rim cement that causes problems), then yeah, try EMC. Just always check your tires. I've had EMC fail immediately upon installation, and also had it fail after some use, and I've seen this pattern with other experienced users as well (as Tater just described from his own trials with it).

[sandyrs]

Another data point, I rolled my front tire in my last race of last season, but it was an absolutely disastrous crash that I was surprised didn't crack my front rim (I was bunny hopping a ~12" tall log but a zoned out lapped rider stepped directly into my line, and my attempt to avoid him led to the front wheel smashing into the log at full speed, sideways, sending me over the bars and my bike flying). I'm going to be trying tubeless this year, though.

[chiasticon]

Why I like and continue to use Panaracer..good enough for Keirin, good enough for me.not that I disagree, but Keirin racing on a tire with 160 psi on a perfectly smooth track doesn't put the same lateral forces on a tire that cornering hard on a downhill descent with 90 psi and hitting a bump while you turn does. the latter will really test your glue job. I'm sure you glue with that in mind, just saying they're different. (and this doesn't even touch cyclocross forces/psi, of course.)

me, I've abandoned the EMC stuff and have taken up slinging glue and CX tape. rather go through that and be more confident that it won't roll than to save myself the work and be questioning the bond.

[11.4]

not that I disagree, but Keirin racing on a tire with 160 psi on a perfectly smooth track doesn't put the same lateral forces on a tire that cornering hard on a downhill descent with 90 psi and hitting a bump while you turn does. the latter will really test your glue job. I'm sure you glue with that in mind, just saying they're different. (and this doesn't even touch cyclocross forces/psi, of course.)

me, I've abandoned the EMC stuff and have taken up slinging glue and CX tape. rather go through that and be more confident that it won't roll than to save myself the work and be questioning the bond.

Tracks are anything but smooth, and one has to make radical turns in a keirin or can be forced into them when trying to avoid going down, when flicking someone, etc. Roadies like to think that track tubular gluing is a simple thing, when G-forces, turns, rough track surfaces, and so on will conspire to create enough stress to exceed what road does. If you consider that one can use a really heavy duty road saddle like an old Turbomatic and still bottom it out on the rails and snap it, you have a sense of the forces involved.

But track use of tape isn't the focus in this thread. The issue is about road safety using the tape, and Tater and others (including myself) have found the tape works when it works and sometimes doesn't work when it doesn't. There are probably tricks and both manufacturing and storage quality control problems and so on that all affect success with the tape. It's the best tape technology to come along yet, so people just need to figure out the bugs. And make it cheaper to use.

[mtb_frk]

Well utter and complete failure. I taped up a wheel on Sunday, it was a nice hot day, did it in the garage. Checked it yesterday, in spots it was stuck good in other spots, I could easily push the tire away from the rim. Deflated it, and rolled it on a broom handle, pumped back up and let it set. Check it today, it was no better. Maybe since I bought the tape last season and it has been sitting fo 10 months, maybe I didn't get the tape on the rim correctly, idk. I am debating getting another roll and giving it one more shot, but at this point I think I will be doing some gluing this weekend. 1.5 weeks until the first race, at least I have two sets of wheels ready to go.

[oldpotatoe]

not that I disagree, but Keirin racing on a tire with 160 psi on a perfectly smooth track doesn't put the same lateral forces on a tire that cornering hard on a downhill descent with 90 psi and hitting a bump while you turn does. the latter will really test your glue job. I'm sure you glue with that in mind, just saying they're different. (and this doesn't even touch cyclocross forces/psi, of course.)

me, I've abandoned the EMC stuff and have taken up slinging glue and CX tape. rather go through that and be more confident that it won't roll than to save myself the work and be questioning the bond.

I think 11.4 'may' disagree with this. Oh, he did, right above..doh. ;)

The rough and tumble racing on the track puts as much stress on glue jobs as road racing. Rolling a tire is bad when or where ever it happens but in my experience, a solvent brush, a can of good, fresh tubular glue, some time and maybe a interweb video is the way to go. It ain't a black art or some sort of strange science..

Particularly where you hear of complete failures of a supposedly 'good' product that the manufacturer can't even explain..no thanks.

[chiasticon]

Tracks are anything but smooth, and one has to make radical turns in a keirin or can be forced into them when trying to avoid going down, when flicking someone, etc. Roadies like to think that track tubular gluing is a simple thing, when G-forces, turns, rough track surfaces, and so on will conspire to create enough stress to exceed what road does. If you consider that one can use a really heavy duty road saddle like an old Turbomatic and still bottom it out on the rails and snap it, you have a sense of the forces involved.I didn't mean to imply that you need a super minimal gluing job, I just don't see the stresses equaling those you'd see flying around a downhill switchback at 50mph and hitting a pothole perpendicular to the direction of travel. that's the sort of situation I see that you need to glue against on the road. but I'm not against taking the word of those more experienced with it, regarding the track. :beer:

[AJosiahK]

was pretty simple to apply

get the right width!

Well see how it goes this season, as Ive taped two sets of race wheels. One mud, one file tread.

good so far

[trentschler]

Disappointing to hear so many problems. I've taped eight wheels and the Carogna has been great. So easy to apply and so clean. The stuff sticks like, well, glue. I wanted to see what it would be like to change a flat on a ride so I tried it in my garage. I had a REALLY hard time getting the tire off. If I'd had to do this in the field on a cold and rainy day - goodbye tubbies! In the meantime though, I'm totally enjoying my high-end Veloflex and Vittoria tires. So smooth.

For what it's worth, all the wheels I've taped have aluminum rims and the tires have been new (no other glue).

[Vamoots58]

the first, was by far the best. Easy installation, seems to have adhered well and haven't had any problems in the almost a year the tires have been mounted. I had a less positive experience when mounting to my Corimas. To be fair, a big part of the issue is that the tape is thicker than the glue layers and as such the FMB's I mounted would not fit in my frame. After realizing that I would have to go the glue route to get tis combo to fit, i was rather surprised at how easy it was to pull the tires of the rims (they had indeed had an appropriate amount of time to set). I have gone back to glue. I liked the convenience of the EMC, but with the tolerance issue and the seemingly les than stellar adherence, I'm sticking with glue.

[effettomariposa]

Well utter and complete failure. I taped up a wheel on Sunday, it was a nice hot day, did it in the garage. Checked it yesterday, in spots it was stuck good in other spots, I could easily push the tire away from the rim. Deflated it, and rolled it on a broom handle, pumped back up and let it set. Check it today, it was no better. Maybe since I bought the tape last season and it has been sitting fo 10 months, maybe I didn't get the tape on the rim correctly, idk. I am debating getting another roll and giving it one more shot, but at this point I think I will be doing some gluing this weekend. 1.5 weeks until the first race, at least I have two sets of wheels ready to go.Hello @mtb_frk, very sorry for the inconvenience.
For some reason, we didn't receive the automatic notification of a post re. Carogna, that's why we reply so late (but we're normally quite reactive on info@effettomariposa.com).
Would you mind giving us further details on the tubular (brand, model) and rim (brand, width, if it was new or not)?
Carogna is normally functioning very well, but cyclocross applications are clearly more complicated... that's why we wrote a specific guide here:
http://www.effettomariposa.eu/en/products/carogna/#cyclocross
Your feedback is highly appreciated, cheers!

[11.4]

Hello @mtb_frk, very sorry for the inconvenience.
For some reason, we didn't receive the automatic notification of a post re. Carogna, that's why we reply so late (but we're normally quite reactive on info@effettomariposa.com).
Would you mind giving us further details on the tubular (brand, model) and rim (brand, width, if it was new or not)?
Carogna is normally functioning very well, but cyclocross applications are clearly more complicated... that's why we wrote a specific guide here:
http://www.effettomariposa.eu/en/products/carogna/#cyclocross
Your feedback is highly appreciated, cheers!

I'd love to see your product score a big win but, like several others here, encounter occasional dud installations. In my case I've glued thousands of tires for track, cross, and road applications and used pretty much every rim cement, tape product, and other methods available over the years. I've even wrapped steyr tubulars with shellacked silk.

Do you have some data and solutions you can offer here for the problems that seems to pop up occasionally? I know a number of the people here who have encountered intermittent problems and who have many years' experience with tubulars. My sense is that there's an issue that needs to be clarified -- I'd prefer we discover the pilot-error element rather than lay blame on the tape itself. Are there some base tapes it doesn't react well with? Some pre-existing rim cements? Storage conditions? Rim shapes? I've been involved in this and other forums over the years on tubular gluing approaches and materials and think you have the best tape technology so far. My only concern is with these intermittent failures and I can't explain them even in my own installations (doing two wheels, for example, where a front wheel works but a rear doesn't, under identical mounting conditions with identical rims and tires). We'd all love to hear a solution from you on this.

[chiasticon]

...you have the best tape technology so far.

...We'd all love to hear a solution from you on this.seconded. it seems to be really great stuff when it works, there just seems to be some missing element in either process or tire/rim combos.

I will say that for me it seemed to mate a cx tire better to a wider rim than a thinner one; 27mm vs 21mm. but after the thinner one started to appear sketchy, I got scared and pulled all the tires.

[AJosiahK]

anyone have the red cover tape break while pulling it out from under the tubular?

Ive used this tape before and always read directions for specifics. Just happened on a pair of race wheels for my wife racer babe. I was lucky enough for it to be enough of a break that I could stretch the tubular up and grab the center of the cover tape and re pull it out. Sadly the tire is a bit less than perfectly straight on the first one, front. The rear I had "practice" so.

Otherwise have been really liking this stuff. Well see how durable the stuff is over this cx season.

[chiasticon]

anyone have the red cover tape break while pulling it out from under the tubular?I believe earlier in this thread someone mentioned that happening to them. seems like it'd be annoying, but I'm not sure it's any more difficult than trying to lift and re-align a tubular with five layers of mastik and cx tape between it and the rim. :crap:

[.RJ]

Anyone here using the tape for cyclocross tubulars? How is it holding up? Can the tape hold for 2 seasons of racing? Is the tire trashed after puling it off the rim with the tape? How hard is the cleanup? Will the tape stick if the rims have already had glue on them, but cleaned up?

[AJosiahK]

I believe earlier in this thread someone mentioned that happening to them. seems like it'd be annoying, but I'm not sure it's any more difficult than trying to lift and re-align a tubular with five layers of mastik and cx tape between it and the rim. :crap:

I did see that, just echoing that as it has never happened to me. I got lucky too, team edition chicanes which I stretched for 2 weeks before getting to this set. Ive also rekindled an old passion of mine, indoor climbing. That has greatly helped general hand and arm strength when it comes to tires and general wrenching.

All the tubulars Ive installed have been for CX

[eBAUMANN]

Anyone here using the tape for cyclocross tubulars?

YES.

How is it holding up?

GREAT. Though I had other issues with the wheels/tires long before the tape ever became the weakest link.


Can the tape hold for 2 seasons of racing?

Probably, I plan on it. Its as strong or maybe even stronger than glue. Though like with any tubular wheel/tire, storage techniques in the offseason matter.


Is the tire trashed after puling it off the rim with the tape?

Eh, kinda. The tape definitely sticks to the base tape of the tire when you pull it off. That said, you can kinda push/rub the stuck tape back onto itself and with enough time/energy you could probably get the base tape clean enough to use again.

How hard is the cleanup?

Easy off the rim, hard off the tire.

Will the tape stick if the rims have already had glue on them, but cleaned up?

Clean the rims completely before taping, effetto mariposa makes a mastic remover specifically for this purpose that does a very good job of softening/removing dried glue.



bold answers above.

[AJosiahK]

How about results from over this weekends KMC CX fest...

Was a muddy course Saturday and that tech section was a doozy.

My racer used her glued MXPs and Muds as back ups.. so I didnt get to see/test the Effetto taped set.

[Vamoots58]

I have three sets of tubular wheels, two were mounted using the Carogna tape, the other I glued. Flatted an FMB Roubaix that really didn't have a ton of mileage on it, one of those things, roads have seemed pretty chewed up here on Long Island this year. Pulled the tires off (no small task, well glued!!). Spent HOURs bringing them back down to clean carbon (ENVE 25's). Nope, not again, mounted the new pair of FMB Comp CX's with the Carogna. Noticed I flatted my rear Corsa G+ (on the Corima S+) on Thursday's ride. Not bad, they about 2,500km on them. Pulled the tire off, they came off easier than the glue BUT they were really on there securely. I was very happy with the condition of the bond. clean rag, little acetone, and a couple of wipes later, rims ready to go. Just ordered another shop roll of Carogna, so I guess I'm officially a convert!!!

[kansukee]

I just ordered some of this stuff along with their rim cleaner. This after running into an issue that I hadn't found in over 5 years of using and gluing tubulars:

On a brand new set of Kinlin TB25s matched to Veloflex carbons, I get a noise similar to that of bubble wrap popping and I've read some reports of this happening when there is an uneven bond between tire and rim. Rather than completely clean the rims and re-glue I decided to give this a try since it seems to provided a much more even bond and hopefully there won't be any pockets.

As far as some of those posts above about the tape not bonding correctly I wonder whether the tape was applied on the wrong side? (Rim side matched to tire side and vice versa)?

[AngryScientist]

one thing is for sure - you need to give new rims a good wipe down with denatured alcohol to remove any oils prior to gluing or taping. any residual oil will hamper good, uniform adhesion, for sure.

[kgreene10]

As far as some of those posts above about the tape not bonding correctly I wonder whether the tape was applied on the wrong side? (Rim side matched to tire side and vice versa)?

Tried three times - two applications by me, one by a former pro mechanic. Followed the directions to the letter each time and times two and three were after email and phone conversations with the owner of Efetto Mariposa and the Us distributor (both very nice and well meaning). Tires and rims were new and properly cleaned multiple times. So little adhesión each time that is just peeled away. No one has a plausible explantation. I was really disappointed it didn't work - such a compelling idea for a product. I use Mastik 1 now. That stuff sticks!

[eBAUMANN]

Tried three times - two applications by me, one by a former pro mechanic. Followed the directions to the letter each time and times two and three were after email and phone conversations with the owner of Efetto Mariposa and the Us distributor (both very nice and well meaning). Tires and rims were new and properly cleaned multiple times. So little adhesión each time that is just peeled away. No one has a plausible explantation. I was really disappointed it didn't work - such a compelling idea for a product. I use Mastik 1 now. That stuff sticks!

that is so bizarre...as i have had the complete opposite experience on 5 different wheelsets...one of which is still going strong into its THIRD season of cx racing, 2nd season of racing for the rest.
all carbon rims, clement, challenge, and fmb tires.

[11.4]

Tried three times - two applications by me, one by a former pro mechanic. Followed the directions to the letter each time and times two and three were after email and phone conversations with the owner of Efetto Mariposa and the Us distributor (both very nice and well meaning). Tires and rims were new and properly cleaned multiple times. So little adhesión each time that is just peeled away. No one has a plausible explantation. I was really disappointed it didn't work - such a compelling idea for a product. I use Mastik 1 now. That stuff sticks!

This is the experience I had incessantly and still have more than I like. I can't say I've done anything different to reduce the incidence, so I'm left to assume that it's about formulation changes in the product. But still, I encounter bad glue jobs perhaps 5% of the time with Mastik One, and perhaps 25% of the time with this stuff. When it works, it's great. But the failures pose a risk, make the stuff really expensive, and leave me frustrated. I got a big shop roll and after a half dozen or so wheels haven't had a problem with any of it, but that's too little info to base any conclusion on. One does have to conclude there's a lot of variability in how the stuff works -- product that's out of date, product that's been subjected to heat or freezing or other conditions before use, variability in batches, whatever. I'm trying to stick with Carogna right now just to try to work out the bugs, but I don't think I'm getting much improvement. For road training wheels, I might stick with it. For track or for racing, I'm back to Mastik One.

[coylifut]

I really wanted Caronga to work, but had dismal results over an extra wet PNW cross season. I went back to Fastak/Belgian tape/Fastak. Very tough bond with that set up. Glue and tape bits comes off nicely with Goo Gone applied overnight.

[kgreene10]

that is so bizarre...as i have had the complete opposite experience on 5 different wheelsets...one of which is still going strong into its THIRD season of cx racing, 2nd season of racing for the rest.
all carbon rims, clement, challenge, and fmb tires.

Sounds like a dream - exactly as I had hoped it would work for me. Instead, I'm working with traditional methods without the time or patience associated with a life of tradition.

[kgreene10]

This is the experience I had incessantly and still have more than I like. I can't say I've done anything different to reduce the incidence, so I'm left to assume that it's about formulation changes in the product. But still, I encounter bad glue jobs perhaps 5% of the time with Mastik One, and perhaps 25% of the time with this stuff. When it works, it's great. But the failures pose a risk, make the stuff really expensive, and leave me frustrated. I got a big shop roll and after a half dozen or so wheels haven't had a problem with any of it, but that's too little info to base any conclusion on. One does have to conclude there's a lot of variability in how the stuff works -- product that's out of date, product that's been subjected to heat or freezing or other conditions before use, variability in batches, whatever. I'm trying to stick with Carogna right now just to try to work out the bugs, but I don't think I'm getting much improvement. For road training wheels, I might stick with it. For track or for racing, I'm back to Mastik One.

Yeah, my gut inclines me to think it's something environmental between production and application. Presumably a lot of heat or cold can happen during transport.

[Quilts]

Slightly off-topic, but I'm about to pick up my first set of tubular wheels and was curious to hear anyone's opinion on how the Carogna compares to other tubular tape brands (Velox Jantex 14/76, Tufo)? Has anyone had any issues with using tubular tape with carbon rims in particular? I've read a few posts elsewhere warning of potential damage to the carbon when removing the tape.

Still trying to decide if I'll go the glue route or give tape a try first.

[lovebird]

Slightly off-topic, but I'm about to pick up my first set of tubular wheels and was curious to hear anyone's opinion on how the Carogna compares to other tubular tape brands (Velox Jantex 14/76, Tufo)? Has anyone had any issues with using tubular tape with carbon rims in particular? I've read a few posts elsewhere warning of potential damage to the carbon when removing the tape.

Still trying to decide if I'll go the glue route or give tape a try first.No experience with other tapes but the Effetto has worked very well for me. Super easy to apply and confidence inspiring on the road (but my racing days are long over so I'm not very demanding at all of the equipment). I've used every kind of glue over the course of twenty five years, and I'm gradually moving towards the tape as tires wear out. I say give the Carogna a try.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Formulasaab]

I've tried the Tufo tape and was thoroughly unimpressed.

The Effetto Mariposa Carogna on the other hand has changed my life. I will never glue another tubular.

I used it all last Cross season with nary a quibble. This season I removed and re-taped a few tubulars because I was switching wheels and that went fine. The tape was very firmly adhered still and thus far, a couple races into the season, is holding well again.

All my experience has been on used third-or-fifth-hand carbon rims (Reynolds, Easton, and Edge) that I took a lot of care in cleaning before I taped them. My tubulars have been second or third hand as well, mostly. I do have two that were new when I taped them up. All are Challenge brand (Grifo, Fango, Limus, and Chicane). Taping always done in my dry basement workshop. Racing always in the dewey morning races in the mid-Atlantic.


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[chiasticon]

just say no. take your time to glue your tubs right. race confidently.

their glue remover, on the other hand, is :banana:

[slinkywizard]

The Effetto Mariposa Carogna on the other hand has changed my life. I will never glue another tubular.

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It is excellent stuff indeed...very easy to use and with a rock solid hold...



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[TDot]

Agree with Slinky Wizard. It's the best tape I've used. zero complaints.

[Kirk007]

I've got three sets of road rims (recreational riding but including some big mountains here and perhaps across the pond this summer) that need tires attached and I have enough Mastik to do 2 sets, so I either need to buy more glue or....

I continue to be intrigued by this tape as it seems it could be a good way to handle any tubular replacement while on a tour away from home (minimal rim cleanup; fast application) yet remain cautious given some of the challenges that others have experienced in the past as documented in this thread. Interested if other users (11.4?) have had further bad experience? Sounds like its somewhat the luck of the draw and sometimes folks get a bad roll of tape, but it also sounds like effetto mariposa is pretty good about standing behind its product when things don't work out. Any further experience updates out there? Grazie, Merci (practicing ; ) ).

[11.4]

I've got three sets of road rims (recreational riding but including some big mountains here and perhaps across the pond this summer) that need tires attached and I have enough Mastik to do 2 sets, so I either need to buy more glue or....

I continue to be intrigued by this tape as it seems it could be a good way to handle any tubular replacement while on a tour away from home (minimal rim cleanup; fast application) yet remain cautious given some of the challenges that others have experienced in the past as documented in this thread. Interested if other users (11.4?) have had further bad experience? Sounds like its somewhat the luck of the draw and sometimes folks get a bad roll of tape, but it also sounds like effetto mariposa is pretty good about standing behind its product when things don't work out. Any further experience updates out there? Grazie, Merci (practicing ; ) ).

I think the tape has improved and I've also figured out any issues that can limit the tape's ability to hold the tire on the rim. I've still had some defectives (so far I'm at about 30 pairs of wheels installed with Carogna and had a total of 7 bad ones, of which two have been in the last ten. I don't have a problem with Mastik One, and can do a better job of customizing the job to suit rim/tire profile disparities, exposure to heavy silt or wet, special needs for track, and so on. For basic road training use, the tape has not been foolproof but demands are lower as well. I'd suggest you try it and see for yourself.

[mtb_frk]

Well Im going to give tape another try this season, any new tips?

[oldpotatoe]

Well Im going to give tape another try this season, any new tips?

tee-hee...expect many tips and opinions from the peanut gallery,,Mine..buy some Panaracer glue and some solvent brushes..:)

Post 41
My first outing with Effetto Mariposa Carogna tubular tape was a total and very disappointing failure. I followed the directions included in the product and those provided by Lennard Zinn in his video to the letter.

[jamesdak]

I'm about to do my third set of wheels using this tape. No complaints from me. Seems to hold really well and is super easy and quick to do. No mess, easy to get the tire on perfectly before pulling the tape lining, etc, etc.

I did get their primer this time and I'm going to use that on the base tape to see if it affects the adhesion over time compared to the other two jobs.

[madsciencenow]

I used it and it worked well. It also was fairly easy to remove from the rim bed.


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[chiasticon]

tee-hee...expect many tips and opinions from the peanut gallery,,Mine..buy some Panaracer glue and some solvent brushes..:)

Post 41to be fair... that post is four years old. perhaps the formula for the tape has changed over time? 11.4 seems to think so and he's quite the knowledgeable fellow.

but yeah, glue is certainly the tried and true way. and apparently the tape works well for road for most people, just not for cyclocross. I'd love for the tape to be foolproof for cross though, simply because it sucks to spend hours cleaning glue and re-gluing just for a handful of races a year.

[superbowlpats]

I used Effetto tape for Cross last season with absolutely no issues.:hello: I did install it on new rims with new tires which may make a difference. Easy to install, make sure its warm when you do it. I'm in the process of stripping off glue of another set of tubs that i bought here PL and i plan to use the tape, assuming i can get the rims clean enough. Hours and hours of stripping glue reminds of why i went to the tape. And yes I have the Carogna mastic remover, and acetone and every other thing i can think of to get the glue off. :mad:

[Vientomas]

I had an extra one of these around, filled it with Goo Gone, rotated the wheel every 8 hours or so to soak a different section, cleaned the old glue off with a rag when rotating. When done, I spun the wheels in my truing stand to get out the excess Goo Gone and let them dry for a couple of days before using the tape to install the tubulars. Worked like a charm.

Good luck!

https://www.amazon.com/Hamilton-Bowes-Front-Tip-Out-White/dp/B0727KVYSV/ref=pd_sbs_201_10?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B0727KVYSV&pd_rd_r=7e20d4b7-e922-4fdd-96f2-e1c6d0e8cf1d&pd_rd_w=ltmNO&pd_rd_wg=BJu10&pf_rd_p=43281256-7633-49c8-b909-7ffd7d8cb21e&pf_rd_r=C5WH3GS1ZD1SDVT85EGZ&psc=1&refRID=C5WH3GS1ZD1SDVT85EGZ

[mtb_frk]

Its good to hear people have been using it successfully. I have 3 or 4 tubular wheelsets that are probably getting close to needing to be re-glued. Im going to give it a try on a clean set of wheels with a new tires first.

[robertbb]

I had an extra one of these around, filled it with Goo Gone, rotated the wheel every 8 hours or so to soak a different section, cleaned the old glue off with a rag when rotating. When done, I spun the wheels in my truing stand to get out the excess Goo Gone and let them dry for a couple of days before using the tape to install the tubulars. Worked like a charm.

Good luck!

https://www.amazon.com/Hamilton-Bowes-Front-Tip-Out-White/dp/B0727KVYSV/ref=pd_sbs_201_10?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B0727KVYSV&pd_rd_r=7e20d4b7-e922-4fdd-96f2-e1c6d0e8cf1d&pd_rd_w=ltmNO&pd_rd_wg=BJu10&pf_rd_p=43281256-7633-49c8-b909-7ffd7d8cb21e&pf_rd_r=C5WH3GS1ZD1SDVT85EGZ&psc=1&refRID=C5WH3GS1ZD1SDVT85EGZ

What do you mean by "filled it with" goo gone? What process did you use?

I'm using the Effetto Mariposa remover to try and get the old glue off a pair of bora's, before switching to tape, but it's tedious!

[Vientomas]

What do you mean by "filled it with" goo gone? What process did you use?

I'm using the Effetto Mariposa remover to try and get the old glue off a pair of bora's, before switching to tape, but it's tedious!

https://googone.com/ "original formula"

I just let it soak and then wiped off the glue. As above, a nice long soak.

[robertbb]

https://googone.com/ "original formula"

I just let it soak and then wiped off the glue. As above, a nice long soak.

Thanks - so I assume you put the goo gone in a container of some sort and dunked the wheel in it?

[Vientomas]

https://www.amazon.com/Hamilton-Bowes-Front-Tip-Out-White/dp/B0727KVYSV/ref=pd_sbs_201_10?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B0727KVYSV&pd_rd_r=7e20d4b7-e922-4fdd-96f2-e1c6d0e8cf1d&pd_rd_w=ltmNO&pd_rd_wg=BJu10&pf_rd_p=43281256-7633-49c8-b909-7ffd7d8cb21e&pf_rd_r=C5WH3GS1ZD1SDVT85EGZ&psc=1&refRID=C5WH3GS1ZD1SDVT85EGZ

Not the entire wheel at once. This permits perhaps 1/5th of the wheel. I did a section, cleaned off and rotated the wheel. Repeat.

[chiasticon]

I'm using the Effetto Mariposa remover to try and get the old glue off a pair of bora's, before switching to tape, but it's tedious!the remover works quite well, but sometimes you have to give it a couple rounds. apply it generously, wait a couple days, scrape off everything you can. apply more if needed, wait another couple days, etc... it shouldn't require a lot of elbow grease. and I have yet to need more than two rounds of it (second one is usually pretty light too). even with a cyclocross glue job.

after the second round, I'll usually hit it with De-Solv-It "Contractors Solvent." works MUCH better than Goo Gone in my experience. then make sure to clean it well and hit it with acetone before trying to apply glue or tape or anything.

[redir]

I know this is a zombie thread that I already posted in so I'm probably repeating myself but....

I did the so called Belgian method some years back and that was the only time I ever rolled a tubular in Cross races. I just use glue, and LOTS of it. Mastik One is my choice.

[oldpotatoe]

I know this is a zombie thread that I already posted in so I'm probably repeating myself but....

I did the so called Belgian method some years back and that was the only time I ever rolled a tubular in Cross races. I just use glue, and LOTS of it. Mastik One is my choice.

mee too and....mee too.....

[jamesdak]

Somewhere on the Effetto Mariposa site I saw a reference to using something to seal the edges with something to keep water out. Saw it like two days ago but can't find it now.

My tubular use is roads in the dry so I've had no issues. Just got in more tape yesterday to do another set.

I will note that I am a relative tape NOOB. First set was done by a very trusted local shop and I discussed the gluing/taping issue with the owner. He discussed this tape in great depth and it is what they do for the race teams they support. He claimed it's not caused them any problems. It's also what he's running on his road bike and he's a pretty big, strong guy compared to me.

[chiasticon]

I did the so called Belgian method some years back and that was the only time I ever rolled a tubular in Cross races.REALLY!?! that's shocking. it's quite a bond. I mean, the six layers of glue don't hurt, but adding CX tape in there really takes it to the next level. I'd imagine that if you rolled that, you would've rolled a glue-only tire as well.

[robertbb]

the remover works quite well, but sometimes you have to give it a couple rounds. apply it generously, wait a couple days, scrape off everything you can. apply more if needed, wait another couple days, etc... it shouldn't require a lot of elbow grease. and I have yet to need more than two rounds of it (second one is usually pretty light too). even with a cyclocross glue job.

after the second round, I'll usually hit it with De-Solv-It "Contractors Solvent." works MUCH better than Goo Gone in my experience. then make sure to clean it well and hit it with acetone before trying to apply glue or tape or anything.

Will probably have to skip the De-Solv-It contractors solvent as we can't get it here in Oz. We can only get their citrus degreaser.

I find with the Effetto remover that there is an "optimum" time for removing it after applying. If you leave it on too short (a few hours), it won't have softened the glue. Leave it on too long (a day or so), and it crusts up and scrapes off into a messy pink dust. After 8 or so hours it turns into a tooth-paste-like consistency and has done a good job of absorbing the glue, then can be worked off with a popsicle stick. No dust that way. It just takes a lot of elbow grease, but the rim looks like new.

Once all glue is gone, I'll give it a wipe down with acetone to remove any trace amounts.

NB: Gotta be careful with getting that effetto remover on the decals - it'll work right through them!

[kppolich]

Adding my $.02 here after a great experience with this stuff.

Used alloy rims, Brand new tubular, and I took my time to remove all the old glue and also went with the Effetto Primer. I followed the directions and even went as far as moving a space heater into my bike room to keep the temp above 70 for 24 hours while the glue did it's thing.

Overall, half a season of racing on a newly taped rear (front glue is still good) and I have zero complaints. Mud, hills, off-camber, you name it the tire is solid and pressures have been nice and low. The only things I was disappointed in were: 1.) the roll of tape is only good for one wheel. and 2.) the primer I received looked half full even though it was brand new.

Pics:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49128288983_a44abe2838_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49128778731_1df4dc045c_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49128778791_415c8014a3_b.jpghttps://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49128778756_b7af7a15f5_b.jpg

[jchasse]

This is a along shot, but does anyone know what the shelf-life is for this tape? I have 2 rolls that have been in the garage for ~18 months. And it's pretty dry here in SW Colorado. Should I be concerned about the adhesive drying out, or any other age-related malady? Or is it still good to go?

[speedevil]

I've been very pleased with the Effetto Mariposa tape on my road bike. 25mm Vittoria Corsa G+ Speed tubs are great to ride and zero adhesion issues. I cleaned the rims with the Effetto cleaner as well and they looked as if a tub had never been glued to them.

A trick I learned that you all probably already know - is that I leave the space opposite the valve stem untaped. Almost but not quite the width between the two spokes. This gives me a narrow window to start removing the tub if I flat while out on a ride.

[CSKeller]

This is a along shot, but does anyone know what the shelf-life is for this tape? I have 2 rolls that have been in the garage for ~18 months. And it's pretty dry here in SW Colorado. Should I be concerned about the adhesive drying out, or any other age-related malady? Or is it still good to go?Jchasse,
I live in Colorado Springs had have a couple of rolls big enough for about 8 rims. They are about 18 months old...no issues at all. I recently taped up a couple of new tires to replace a couple well worn tires.

I imagine the tape will be perfect for quite some time as long as it isn't exposed to prolonged exposure to direct sunlight while in storage.

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