View Full Version : Educate me please. Class-Speedplay 101
Fiertetimestwo
05-12-2015, 12:34 AM
I have used Shimano SPD SL pedals with yellow cleats for quite a few years with- at least until recently- few problems.
Recently, however, I have been having some problems with my right knee which has already had 2 arthroscopic operations due to injuries unrelated to cycling. My Orthopaedic Surgeon and my Physiotherapist both agree that more surgery is not the way to go.
I thought I might look at Speedplays, given their reputation as being the knee friendly pedal.
So- Zero's? X's? Frog's? What does the Forum like and recommend?
I don't race, but I do like crawling up big hills (albeit at a snail's pace).
Plum Hill
05-12-2015, 05:49 AM
I had a knee replacement back in September. I switched to Speedplay Light Action from Time RXS to get away from the self-centering of the Times (I thought it best to not force the leg into a position not of it's own choice).
Other than a different entry (push straight down, not toe first) no big issues.
LBS recommended a longer spindle length, which I paid dearly for.
I did pick up a pair of Keep On Kovers to protect the cleat. Speedplay now offers a walkable cleat, but for some idiotic reason offers it only as an accessory; you can't but it with the pedals.
One does have to perform maintenance on them: lubing the cleat spring and greasing the pedal bearing. Really, nothing major or hard to do.
Yes, they work on hills, too.
kramnnim
05-12-2015, 05:51 AM
Zeros will allow you to control the amount of float...
oldpotatoe
05-12-2015, 05:52 AM
I have used Shimano SPD SL pedals with yellow cleats for quite a few years with- at least until recently- few problems.
Recently, however, I have been having some problems with my right knee which has already had 2 arthroscopic operations due to injuries unrelated to cycling. My Orthopaedic Surgeon and my Physiotherapist both agree that more surgery is not the way to go.
I thought I might look at Speedplays, given their reputation as being the knee friendly pedal.
So- Zero's? X's? Frog's? What does the Forum like and recommend?
I don't race, but I do like crawling up big hills (albeit at a snail's pace).
Not a fit guy nor Doc but I'd say Zeros..SP has the most adjustment available in terms of cleat positioning..left-right and fore-aft plus adjustable float..zero to about 8 degress in either direction(in and out).
But go see the fit/physiotherapist guy(hope he is bike friendly) when you set these up.
eddief
05-12-2015, 07:39 AM
can work well if you prefer mountain shoes. 4 bikes, 4 Frogs.
mecse
05-12-2015, 07:53 AM
I have used Shimano SPD SL pedals with yellow cleats for quite a few years with- at least until recently- few problems.
Recently, however, I have been having some problems with my right knee which has already had 2 arthroscopic operations due to injuries unrelated to cycling. My Orthopaedic Surgeon and my Physiotherapist both agree that more surgery is not the way to go.
I thought I might look at Speedplays, given their reputation as being the knee friendly pedal.
So- Zero's? X's? Frog's? What does the Forum like and recommend?
I don't race, but I do like crawling up big hills (albeit at a snail's pace).
They make 4 pedals. I use Zeros.
The X Pedal is their original Road pedal, superceded in most ways I believe by the Zero
The Zero Pedal is their 'main' pedal they sell, which has a more reliable spring mechanism and adjustable 'float' on in/out rotation on the cleats.
The Light Action is a pedal that works like the Zero but requires less force to exit and does not have adjustable cleat.
The Frog is their original mountain pedal, and has loads of outward float, no in float and is not adjustable. I think a lot of people love this pedal.
The Syzr is their new mountain pedal. It looks super duper whizbang but I have never put my foot in one.
I use the Zeros. My knees love them. For comparison, my knees are also comfortable riding Time ATAC, but not as happy as with the Zero's.
jmoore
05-12-2015, 08:44 AM
X-5 user since 2001. I have never used another road pedal and never had any issues.
djg21
05-12-2015, 08:54 AM
The Zeros have flat clips in the cleat which do not wear as quickly as the round ones in the X-series. IME, the X-series clips develops flat spots (on my case on the outside of the cleat) and my foot would start to rock to the outside. This isn't a problem with Zeros.
I haven't had a problem releasing from regular Zeros, even after a TKR. If you limit the float to the outside, you come out easily.
Bradford
05-12-2015, 09:18 AM
I've been a Speedplay guy since 1996 and wouldn't consider anything else. I made the switch because of my knees and they have been all I hoped for and much more.
I started with Frogs on my touring bike and X's on my road bike. Eventually I wised up and realized there is no rational reason to ride anything but Frog's (unless you are racing), so I switched completely to Frog's. Now I have the same pedal on all my bikes, can walk around easily on days I commute or take the kids to the park, and have the perfect riding platform for my knees.
All Frogs, all the time, and everything is dancing bananas.:banana:
RedRider
05-12-2015, 09:37 AM
Speedplay pedals, especially the Zero model, are very adjustable and can facilitate "dialing in" a good bike fit. No pedal by itself is knee friendly but rather a part of the overall bike fit. If you've been injured or had surgery your bike fit will be different. Find a professional bike fitter that can set you up properly.
loooong time speedplay user.
I believe speedplays qualify as "knee friendly" mostly because of the large degree of float all their pedals have. I find its not so much that you use all the float but it gives you more margin of error when setting up the cleats.
If look style are set up completely properly, should be the same. The float allows my foot to find the right angle. Makes replacing cleats and replicating position much less tricky.
like others have mentioned, Id try the zeros. Some peoples stroke doesnt seem to get along with the free floating Xs and the zeros make some adjustments posibble.
Again there are probably other factors at play and Id check saddle position before I went after pedals
Bradford
05-12-2015, 10:18 AM
Speedplay pedals, especially the Zero model, are very adjustable and can facilitate "dialing in" a good bike fit. No pedal by itself is knee friendly but rather a part of the overall bike fit. If you've been injured or had surgery your bike fit will be different. Find a professional bike fitter that can set you up properly.
I had both a professional bike fit and a professional pedal fit and my knees were a mess. I went back and had the pedal fit done again and made a marginal, but not significant difference. I switched Speedplays and all my problems went away and never returned. I understand the problem of using one data point to make a rule, but when it is your knees in question, one data point is all you need.
For me, and a lot of other people from what I read, this is one of those things were you can just switch your equipment and make a huge difference.
RedRider
05-12-2015, 11:18 AM
For me, and a lot of other people from what I read, this is one of those things were you can just switch your equipment and make a huge difference.
I don't disagree that changing pedals can make a big difference but how are you going to observe your pedaling to make the adjustments? If the stack height changes how will you adjust saddle height? If you change saddle height will fore/aft change? Choose spindle length? Set cleat position and make the float adjustments on the Zero cleats?
Fitting yourself is like cutting your own hair...
John H.
05-12-2015, 11:43 AM
My education will take it in a different direction.
Stick with current pedals. Speedplays have wobble and require more lower leg musculature to keep in line
Your 1st move should be to seek out a terrific fitter and have them set you up from the toes up.
Cleat position, foot width, foot fore and aft, insoles if needed saddle height and setback...
djg21
05-12-2015, 11:50 AM
My education will take it in a different direction.
Stick with current pedals. Speedplays have wobble and require more lower leg musculature to keep in line
Your 1st move should be to seek out a terrific fitter and have them set you up from the toes up.
Cleat position, foot width, foot fore and aft, insoles if needed saddle height and setback...
The wobble you note was an issue with the X series pedals due to the retaining clip wear I described above. I've not heard of wobble being an issue with Zeros, and I've encountered no problems on the Speedplays (assuming pedal bodies aren't worn) I've used on multiple bikes of years.
batman1425
05-12-2015, 11:53 AM
Speedplays can offer relief for knee pain suffers, but like any change to your position/fit, it has to be appropriate for you and your bodies specific needs.
My knee problems have been around for 10 years, including an arthroscopic repair in 2007, and years of physical therapy. The thing with knee pain is it can be the symptom of a problem anywhere in the kinetic chain from foot to lower back. The hard part is figuring out where the disfunction lies that is causing your knee to load or track improperly - and that is where a good fitter comes in.
Last year I sought out one of the best fitters on the east coast for a full evaluation and we got to the bottom of my pain - which all stemmed from improper arch support. Some custom insoles and a few small tweaks to my saddle position and I'm riding pain free for the first time in 2 years.
Pedals with better adjustability is a good start, but IMO, a great fitter is who you need to talk to first. Ask around in your area for who the best people are. Don't be afraid to ask them about their experience, qualifications, certifications, and fit tools. Also, pick based on the person more than the tools. Video motion capture, pressure mapping, dartfish, etc. are great tools, but are worthless if the fitter can't interpret it correctly and apply the data to your specific needs and goals.
cmbicycles
05-12-2015, 11:54 AM
I don't disagree that changing pedals can make a big difference but how are you going to observe your pedaling to make the adjustments? If the stack height changes how will you adjust saddle height? If you change saddle height will fore/aft change? Choose spindle length? Set cleat position and make the float adjustments on the Zero cleats?
Fitting yourself is like cutting your own hair...
I don't disagree that it may be more difficult to fit yourself if you don't know what you are doing. Then again it isn't exactly rocket surgery ;) I won't discount the knowledge of many good fitters, and how easy it is for them to rent you their eyes,ears, and experience to help set up your fit. If that works, and it works for many satisfied people and good fitters alike, so be it.
If you talk to 3 different fitters you will get multiple different opinions on how you should be "fit" to your bike. Sure there are some "standards/markers" that may aid your initial position, but from there you simply need to how small adjustments affect different parts of your position, and how they work together. It isn't hard to listen to your own body to know what works for you if you know what to listen/look for. Would it help or be easier to have an external perspective, sure, but as always ymmv.
I use X-2's and have for almost 20 years, after a year or so on Look pedals and some knee issues. The X-2's initially took a little getting used to how they felt. After that initial break in period they have been golden. I've been curious to try the Zeros to see how different they feel, as they get a lot of good reviews here and elsewhere, but I figure why mess with what is working.
Fwiw, I cut my own hair, and fit myself. :banana:
berserk87
05-12-2015, 12:03 PM
My education will take it in a different direction.
Stick with current pedals. Speedplays have wobble and require more lower leg musculature to keep in line
Your 1st move should be to seek out a terrific fitter and have them set you up from the toes up.
Cleat position, foot width, foot fore and aft, insoles if needed saddle height and setback...
I don't understand the "require more lower leg musculature to keep in line" part of your post. I have not experienced anything that would seem to support this. Can you please clarify?
Thanks -
Mike
thwart
05-12-2015, 12:34 PM
If I think of the many things I've purchased over the years that are bike related... and the relatively few that have proven to be worth much more than I paid...
Speedplay Frogs are in that group.
Of course, YMMV.
djg21
05-12-2015, 12:42 PM
I didn't love frogs on my MTB. The lip on the pedal designed to prevent heel strike on the chain stay would hit the cleat and cause it to rotate on my shoe sole, and this would at times prevent me from releasing. While I swear by Speedplay Zeros on the road, I wasn't a fan of the Frogs on my MTB.
The new Syzr looks really good however. I'm avoiding the urge to be come an early adapter, and waiting to see how these pedals are received.
Likes2ridefar
05-12-2015, 02:25 PM
I don't understand the "require more lower leg musculature to keep in line" part of your post. I have not experienced anything that would seem to support this. Can you please clarify?
Thanks -
Mike
I see it as all the free float allows the foot to wobble back and forth throughout the pedal motion and therefore perhaps your body tries to keep it aligned thus engaging muscles for that task.
I've read some people think this causes fatigue.
I've never really had a problem with any pedal I've used but I do think SPD-SL are more stable feeling than the rest, at least the newest and widest versions. To me they feel more secure than speedplay with the bonus of being way easier to walk around in, much cheaper cleats, and nearly forget about it maintenance.
I started on speedplays used both the X and zero series for years. a team i was on forced me to use dura-ace, or try them at least, and i havent looked back.
berserk87
05-12-2015, 03:31 PM
I see it as all the free float allows the foot to wobble back and forth throughout the pedal motion and therefore perhaps your body tries to keep it aligned thus engaging muscles for that task.
I've read some people think this causes fatigue.
I've never really had a problem with any pedal I've used but I do think SPD-SL are more stable feeling than the rest, at least the newest and widest versions. To me they feel more secure than speedplay with the bonus of being way easier to walk around in, much cheaper cleats, and nearly forget about it maintenance.
I started on speedplays used both the X and zero series for years. a team i was on forced me to use dura-ace, or try them at least, and i havent looked back.
Thanks -
John H.
05-12-2015, 03:37 PM
http://www.epdoc.com/mvv/speedplay/index.html
QUOTE=berserk87;1755679]I don't understand the "require more lower leg musculature to keep in line" part of your post. I have not experienced anything that would seem to support this. Can you please clarify?
Thanks -
Mike[/QUOTE]
oldpotatoe
05-12-2015, 03:43 PM
http://www.epdoc.com/mvv/speedplay/index.html
QUOTE=berserk87;1755679]I don't understand the "require more lower leg musculature to keep in line" part of your post. I have not experienced anything that would seem to support this. Can you please clarify?
Thanks -
Mike[/QUOTE]
X series, replace spring and bow-ties....have used the same pair of Zeros for about 8 years, replace cleats, don't have no wobble wobble.
X series, replace spring and bow-ties....have used the same pair of Zeros for about 8 years, replace cleats, don't have no wobble wobble.[/QUOTE]
I've seen and experienced roll and pitch wobble on Zeros if the 4 screws are at different tension and the 3 bolt to 4 bolt adapter isn't providing a perfect flat surface. And yea, yaw (float) is designed into the system, of course.
That said, I'm looking at Paves and the new 2.0 cleat with the screws that only allow you to go so far.
kramnnim
05-12-2015, 08:00 PM
My Zeros do that wobble, it's like standing on ice skates.
I had some bad knee pain a couple years ago and blamed it on that wobble, but I got over it and it hasn't bothered me since.
I think using the metal protector plates helps, as the adapter plastic wears and allows more wobble.
Fiertetimestwo
05-12-2015, 10:24 PM
Thank you for all your responses. I have had a bike fit (actually went all the way to Sydney to see Steve Hogg) but I rather shocked myself when I recalled that it was in fact 15 years ago!
I have, just this morning, found a local fitter and have booked in.
I will keep you posted.
wallymann
05-13-2015, 07:32 AM
I see it as all the free float allows the foot to wobble back and forth throughout the pedal motion and therefore perhaps your body tries to keep it aligned thus engaging muscles for that task.
for many cyclist there is a transition period when moving to X speedplays. the free-float can be a very good thing for some (myself included, first starting riding the original metal-bodies X pedals in 92-93), but it can take a few days/weeks for connective tissues around the knee to adapt to the new/varying loads it may experience that come with being able to track freely.
John H.
05-13-2015, 11:01 AM
This is the correct choice- before spending money on pedals.
In 15 years your fit needs can change, not to mention 15 years worth of "position drift".
Thank you for all your responses. I have had a bike fit (actually went all the way to Sydney to see Steve Hogg) but I rather shocked myself when I recalled that it was in fact 15 years ago!
I have, just this morning, found a local fitter and have booked in.
I will keep you posted.
Highpowernut
05-13-2015, 11:15 AM
The fit is key, but I love my zeros.
Just hate the adaptor plate, and Speedplay specific shoes are hard to find and usually expensive.
I have sidi t3.6 for tri and love them, Speedplay specific but pricey.
North wave adaptor is nice if those will work for you.
berserk87
05-13-2015, 04:20 PM
That article about pedal rock says that this issue is "not uncommon" - which is far from a certainty. So to say that they have a rocking issue is a bit misleading. More correctly stated perhaps would be to say that this can be a problem.
I have not experienced it (at least that I have noticed) and I have been on X-2's since 1997.
What is the zero in Speedplay Zeros? I thought it
meant zero float and you were locked to the pedal, so
to speak.
aramis
05-14-2015, 01:39 AM
What is the zero in Speedplay Zeros? I thought it
meant zero float and you were locked to the pedal, so
to speak.
It's not zero float. They have a huge range of adjustability.
For me the game changer with them is they don't self center. My knees were so happy when I switched from look keos.
shovelhd
05-14-2015, 11:45 AM
What is the zero in Speedplay Zeros? I thought it
meant zero float and you were locked to the pedal, so
to speak.
You can have zero float by locking the set screws down, with your foot adjusted in whatever angle is possible. Some riders like that feature as much as float.
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