Riding with a group -- what not to do

[Keith A]

Saw this posted on Facebook and thought I'd share it here...
http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/05/dont-be-that-cyclist/

There's some good reminders in there about what not to do when riding in a group. It doesn't cover them all, but it hits on a bunch of the common problems with group rides.

One that I would add to this list is related to an issue that was mentioned in the article, but slightly different. I do a couple of rides that are very competitive with some of the strongest riders in town...so these rides approach races at times. People will try and get off the front and break away, and will even block at times and try to split up the group. So aggressive riding is a given and accepted. But one thing that bugs me is that we have a couple of riders that will sometimes go long and really hard when they get to the front. Which is fine, but when they pull off, they sit back in and not rotate (cause they are recovering) but will get frustrated that people aren't pulling through like they were before...but it's because he just screwed up the paceline and other folks are wanting to recover too :crap:

[azrider]

Can I add one ??

Likes to look behind guy- This past Saturday a dude kept going to the front and after about a 10 meter pull he'd start looking behind him to see what damage he'd done or was doing (which was nothing) or at other times he'd look behind him to see where his buddy was but every time he pulled this "rubberneck" move he wouldn't/couldn't hold his straight line and was a danger to himself and everyone else in the group.

Luckily someone else called him out on it before I had to get all "tough guy" on him :p

[Keith A]

Here's one more, constantly changes gears. I ride in the flat lands of Florida with no elevation change on our routes, but one guy changes gears so often (as in constantly) it is annoying...I'm not even sure he's aware that he is doing it because it's just the way he rides.

[marciero]

How about rising out of the saddle, esp. on a climb, in such a way that the bike jerks abruptly backward? One can counter this effect, for example, with a slight acceleration just before and/or during the rising motion.

[FlashUNC]

My personal pet peeve is always the "pedal five pedal strokes as hard as possible then freewheel and hit the brakes" guy.

You're in a paceline buddy. Small applications and alterations of power. Yeah, if there's a surge up front, I get it, but your uneven riding is causing hell behind you. And maybe even some crashes.

I think the best compliment you can pay a rider is saying you're comfortable on their wheel. A lot of guys I just will not ride behind, period.

[azrider]

How about rising out of the saddle, esp. on a climb, in such a way that the bike jerks abruptly backward? One can counter this effect, for example, with a slight acceleration just before and/or during the rising motion.

Ha....can I add "doesn't read the article" guy ? :p

[Keith A]

...
I think the best compliment you can pay a rider is saying you're comfortable on their wheel. A lot of guys I just will not ride behind, period.This is so true and there are certainly some riders that I avoid getting in front of or behind them.

[AngryScientist]

i also think it's important to point these things out to riders tactfully. no need to be condescending, but it's not realistic to think people will get to be better cyclists if they dont know what they're doing wrong either.

[FlashUNC]

i also think it's important to point these things out to riders tactfully. no need to be condescending, but it's not realistic to think people will get to be better cyclists if they dont know what they're doing wrong either.

I know its the wrong approach and I've had my weak moments, but sometimes the only thing that gets through is yelling.

I once watched a guy who was so sketchy on our Saturday morning group ride he took one hand off the bars and almost ate it right there. If you're that sketch that you can't even grab a bottle from a cage, I've got no time for patience or understanding. You're a risk to everyone around you and can seriously hurt other people. You do not belong in a group until those skills improve, and your feelings aren't worth my collarbone or worse.

[tiretrax]

One more reason why I ride alone most of the time. The way people ride in groups is worse than trying to drive in traffic (how about the guy who is in left lane and waits until on top of the exit and swerves three lanes to get off and nearly clipped me yesterday?).

[wallymann]

i like to start softer, but sometimes this is where you end up.

I know its the wrong approach and I've had my weak moments, but sometimes the only thing that gets through is yelling.

I once watched a guy who was so sketchy on our Saturday morning group ride he took one hand off the bars and almost ate it right there. If you're that sketch that you can't even grab a bottle from a cage, I've got no time for patience or understanding. You're a risk to everyone around you and can seriously hurt other people. You do not belong in a group until those skills improve, and your feelings aren't worth my collarbone or worse.

[Dead Man]

I know its the wrong approach and I've had my weak moments, but sometimes the only thing that gets through is yelling.

I once watched a guy who was so sketchy on our Saturday morning group ride he took one hand off the bars and almost ate it right there. If you're that sketch that you can't even grab a bottle from a cage, I've got no time for patience or understanding. You're a risk to everyone around you and can seriously hurt other people. You do not belong in a group until those skills improve, and your feelings aren't worth my collarbone or worse.

I don't know.. I don't do any club riding, and the only non-team group riding I ever do is racing, where guys are generally 'switched on.' But I would think that the people you're referring to are new to group riding.. and nervous.. and the problems you're seeing are due to that nervousness. Barking at them or condescending to them is going to make them more nervous, make the situation worse, not better.

How's yelling at anyone going to keep your collarbone from getting broken?

[FlashUNC]

I don't know.. I don't do any club riding, and the only non-team group riding I ever do is racing, where guys are generally 'switched on.' But I would think that the people you're referring to are new to group riding.. and nervous.. and the problems you're seeing are due to that nervousness. Barking at them or condescending to them is going to make them more nervous, make the situation worse, not better.

How's yelling at anyone going to keep your collarbone from getting broken?

These aren't folks new to riding. These are guys who continue -- pardon my French -- to be ····ty group riders. And do nothing to fix it.

Certainly with new guys you pull 'em aside and have a conversation. But if John Wobble Bottle is just the latest drama in something that's been happening over weeks, if not months, and the group has dodged a couple bullets and no one's gotten seriously hurt, yeah, I'm going to yell. Its only a matter of time, and nothing else has worked to get it through their thick skull.

Again, I'm not willing to trade someone getting potentially injured for playing kumbaya around the campfire. Safety of the group is job #1 for everyone. If someone's not willing to respect that, I've got no time or patience for them.

[msl819]

We had a guy local to us who is not riding anymore because of an accident that he caused but he never liked to sit in. He would ride up and off the front and then slide down the paceline on our left without going all the way back. We addressed it several times but he didn't do much with it. I hated having him on my left with a rider in front and behind and the edge of the pavement on the right. If I needed it I had no place to go.

We also have a fair amount of hills and plenty of people who don't understand how to ride them. They surge up the hill then want to sit up and rest at the top and coast down instead of carrying a steady pace up and then pedaling down the hill. That is a a big one for me because I hate having to use the brakes on the way down or come out of the draft.

[bcroslin]

But one thing that bugs me is that we have a couple of riders that will sometimes go long and really hard when they get to the front. Which is fine, but when they pull off, they sit back in and not rotate (cause they are recovering) but will get frustrated that people aren't pulling through like they were before...but it's because he just screwed up the paceline and other folks are wanting to recover too :crap:

This. Attacking out of the pace line is a total d-bag move. There was a dude that would do our rides here in St Pete and he would surge through the pace line and take a hard pull which would totally screw things up. It got to the point that we would just start rotating behind him and let him hang out front. He just couldn't figure out why we would get irritated with him even though we'd tell him to stop surging through and to stop attacking the pace line.

There are some people who no matter how nice you are just don't get it.

[Keith A]

These aren't folks new to riding. These are guys who continue -- pardon my French -- to be ····ty group riders. And do nothing to fix it.
...
Again, I'm not willing to trade someone getting potentially injured for playing kumbaya around the campfire. Safety of the group is job #1 for everyone. If someone's not willing to respect that, I've got no time or patience for them.
We have a few of these guys too...they've been riding long enough to know better, but discussing it with them results to yelling.

...
There are some people who no matter how nice you are just don't get it.Exactly.

[MattTuck]

My goal is to get really fast and then show up to group rides wearing a polka dot KOM jersey, with my bibs worn on the outside, and walk around introducing myself and saying "Just in case something happens out there, I was wondering if i can count on you for a tube or a gel. I forgot mine." just to see what kind of looks I get.

backwards helmet too, with clip on aero-bars. :banana:

[Dead Man]

with clip on aero-bars. :banana:

TOO FAR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaQJB_bWA4c

[beeatnik]

Was just telling a friend about the first time I was yelled at and the first time I yelled (at a guy who always looks down during hard efforts). The circle of life...

My favorite group ride, Montrose, is probably one of the biggest in the country. The ride has two routes (short and long w/ a few walls). There are 3 start times, 7:45, 8 and 8:30. The 8:30 ride, which is the largest, has the reputation of being the fast ride. From official start to official end the longest route is 65 miles at a 23mph average, which would probably be higher without all the stops at major intersections. In total, you get anywhere from 200 to 300 riders on the "course." Anyway, the ride has no leaders or organizers and there are no A, B, C group designations. You just show up at the time you think you're fit for. It's an interesting self selection as there are few obvious beginners at the 8:30 ride. Also, the size of the peloton makes for a safe and predictable ride and there's only been one major crash in the last 5 years. Basically, you get a few local teams setting pace in sections where they think they can shine. There's no pacelines, just a bunch of dudes going hard and having dudes behind them come around if they feel the pace is not spicy enough, fake race style. In the end you get about 10 guys setting the pace on the flat sections (older guys) and about 10 younger guys at the front in the "climbs." The other 80 riders just try to hang on and catch the "leaders" at major intersections. Anyhoo, it's fun and statistically (for me at least) safer than riding alone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDN53cb9nYM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIe4ijLhoiQ

[bluto]

first time I yelled (at a guy who always looks down during hard efforts)



If you are exerting that much effort that you can't look up to see where you're going and you are losing your ability to control your bike safely then please drop back.

[beeatnik]

^Exactly. He was in way over his head and overlapping on a fast paceline (30-35mph). His bike was also a few sizes too large for him.

We're pals now. I saw him on a few rides after that first incident and he wasn't improving. But we realized we had a few mutual friends and began to chat bikes on a Sunday social ride. Since then, he's picked up a couple of new bikes, raced Cat4 and done tons of group and team rides. But the last time I saw him at the Montrose Ride, a gentleman, in his late 50s, rode up to him at a stop and gave him a few suggestions on how he could look up and forward while riding. It was gentle and tactful.

You catch more bees with...

[makoti]

This. Attacking out of the pace line is a total d-bag move. There was a dude that would do our rides here in St Pete and he would surge through the pace line and take a hard pull which would totally screw things up. It got to the point that we would just start rotating behind him and let him hang out front. He just couldn't figure out why we would get irritated with him even though we'd tell him to stop surging through and to stop attacking the pace line.

There are some people who no matter how nice you are just don't get it.

If I'm behind someone like this, I just let them go. Keep the remaining line intact, start my pull, & let them figure out why they are alone out there.

[Keith A]

If I'm behind someone like this, I just let them go. Keep the remaining line intact, start my pull, & let them figure out why they are alone out there.Yep, that does happen some of the time.

[SoCalSteve]

After spending years coaching bike etiquette, pace lining, etc. to noobies, I refuse to ride in groups where some of the above mentioned behavior happens. It's just too scary! And, at 57, it takes a long time to heal...:crap:

I ride with one or two other guys who "get it ". We have been riding together now for close to 10 years and there is deep trust and understanding between us.

My suggestion would be to find a few of these guys and just ride with them. Much more satisfying, personal and safer...:beer:

[beeatnik]

Steve, what's your regular loop?

[mktng]

I hate riding with people who are not careful with their snot rockets. Respectful riders will peel off to the side, make sure noone is behind and fire away. Some people...just...dont care....

[Dead Man]

I hate riding with people who are not careful with their snot rockets. Respectful riders will peel off to the side, make sure noone is behind and fire away. Some people...just...dont care....

I'll just go down between my knee and frame if I'm desperate and don't want to kill the flow of the paceline. I've never hit anyone (other than myself, that is). I've BEEN hit, though... f'ing gross, man.

[SoCalSteve]

Steve, what's your regular loop?

Dock 52 MDR to Cross Creek Malibu ( short ride ) or to Trancas ( long ride ). If we stay local, San Vicente loops and/or Mandeville.

Usually we get a cappuccino in there as well...:beer:

[beeatnik]

Dock 52 MDR to Cross Creek Malibu ( short ride ) or to Trancas ( long ride ). If we stay local, San Vicente loops and/or Mandeville.

Usually we get a cappuccino in there as well...:beer:

Nice.

Tho any ride on PCH has higher odds of catastrophe than the bigger group rides, IMO.

Mandeville is always fun.

[SoCalSteve]

Nice.

Tho any ride on PCH has higher odds of catastrophe than the bigger group rides, IMO.

Mandeville is always fun.

It's funny you say that...in all the years I have been riding up and down PCH, there have been very few serious accidents ( that we know of - and my buddies and I are pretty tied into the local club scene(s) ).

People say that to us all the time, but it feels no more or less dangerous than any other road ride. A bit loud at times, but always fun to see the super cars and crotch rockets whizzing by.

And, when we do pick up a group of experienced cyclist, it can really be fun...that doesn't happen too often as we are really picky about who we will ride with.

Ran into the Bahati group a couple times. They are GREAT to ride with!!! And Rahsaan is a true gentleman. I'd ride with him anytime! He has some great pro cycling stories to tell.

[beeatnik]

Steve, from reading Seth's blog, I was under the impression that cyclists are struck regularly on PCH.

Bahati does Montrose and the Bowl a couple times monthly. Great wheel to follow unlike some of the other young pros who love to throw around their bikes and shoot every 2 inch gap.

[KJMUNC]

Steve, from reading Seth's blog, I was under the impression that cyclists are struck regularly on PCH.

Bahati does Montrose and the Bowl a couple times monthly. Great wheel to follow unlike some of the other young pros who love to throw around their bikes and shoot every 2 inch gap.

Ditto on Bahati.....he and his crew are always cracking the whip on the MB Pier Ride and the circuits around LAX. Dudes can motor.

Add this one to the list: people who pull for 45sec and then flick their elbow like they've been pulling in a break at the Tour for 50km..... :rolleyes:

[hesh0925]

Not even close to a group ride, but I went on a little ride with my friend last week. He's very new to bikes, so this was very casual. He was drinking something and accidentally coughed or did something. All I know is that whatever he was drinking was on my face. So there's that.

[shovelhd]

Add this one to the list: people who pull for 45sec and then flick their elbow like they've been pulling in a break at the Tour for 50km..... :rolleyes:

I'd much rather have them pull off at their limit than get in the way. Just saying.

[Mayhem]

I hate sitting behind riders who don't pull off to the side when they're getting dropped. If I'm not paying attention I'll find myself 100 meters back off the group, then I have to sprint to catch back up mentally giving him the finger on the way by. Seems to happen more on charity rides than club rides. If someone does give me a warning I'll be cool and tell them to catch my wheel. Otherwise, see ya.

[dcama5]

i also think it's important to point these things out to riders tactfully. no need to be condescending, but it's not realistic to think people will get to be better cyclists if they dont know what they're doing wrong either.

Good Point!

[Hindmost]

I joined a group for a three-week tour once. A couple of dozen people. Only a few knew each other and the rest of us were new acquaintances. At the group dinner on the night before we started the tour organizer spoke to us and among other things he said something I came to recognize as somewhat profound:

We are all eager to start tomorrow. Each of you have different histories and experiences with cycling and group riding. Don't go too crazy for the first few days; get to know each other and familiarize yourselves with your various riding styles. Then you can begin to form groups in which you are most comfortable.

[bcroslin]

How many of your rides have guys that have been showing up for years who don't talk to anyone? We have 2 guys who at times ride like knuckleheads and they won't talk to anyone in the group. And we've tried I swear. Both are odd ducks.

[shovelhd]

I blame Strava.

[bcroslin]

I'd much rather have them pull off at their limit than get in the way. Just saying.

Totally agree. There's always one guy who will surge through and then die on the front. If they do it more than once we attack them to force them to the back.

We've had a few rides recently where when we were done we commented on how nice the pace line was working. I love those kind of rides.

[velomonkey]

Strava, newbies, yelling . . . lots going on.

I can attest, as a youth coach, yelling DOES work when done right. Kids, like anyone in a group ride, want to do right. When their coach yells "gotta have it" or "get that ball, Tomas" or any other thing I can say first hand the kids do better. For certain. Coaches go up and down side lines in all professional sports for a reason - it works.

We probably can all name that time someone yelled "close that gap" - and we did. I know I can.

I'm not advocating yelling - I'm simply saying, when done right, yelling does work.

[wallymann]

Ran into the Bahati group a couple times. They are GREAT to ride with!!! And Rahsaan is a true gentleman. I'd ride with him anytime! He has some great pro cycling stories to tell.

he came to TN a few years back to ride with us, when we head south for warmer spring-time riding. classy dude indeed, both on and off the bike!

http://majortaylorcycling.org/events/2010_tn_summit_training_camp/thumbs/24525_1345640212953_1589720920_792448_2023719_n.jp ghttp://majortaylorcycling.org/events/2010_tn_summit_training_camp/thumbs/24525_1345640332956_1589720920_792451_3051193_n.jp ghttp://majortaylorcycling.org/events/2010_tn_summit_training_camp/thumbs/24525_1345640732966_1589720920_792461_5387884_n.jp g (http://majortaylorcycling.org/events/2010_tn_summit_training_camp/)

[velomonkey]

he came to TN a few years back to ride with us. classy dude indeed, both on and off the bike!


Word!!!!!!! He is awesome. On the other end of the spectrum of yelling - we can all name that time we gave up and someone touched us on the ass and said "close that gap. . . slowly" - and we give it all we had to close the gap.

[Bob Ross]

I'd much rather have them pull off at their limit than get in the way. Just saying.

Seriously. 45 seconds is a long pull if you're doing your work...and if you're not, it's an interminable pull!

I'm a big fan of the 15-20 second pull in a cooperative group ride. Heroes are for Saturday morning cartoon shows.

[ultraman6970]

IMO they forgot this one....

Always be worry about who is in front of you, and not of who is behind you. Why?... if the guy in front of you do something and you are too worried about who is behind I assure you something will happen and will be way too late to apply the corrective measures.

If the guy behind is looking at the stars or overlapping the wheels is his problem, not yours, pretty much hard to go down from a guy that is behind, unless is me who is behind :D

The overlapping wheels well... it depends a lot of the type of group, if are we talking about 2 or 3 guys the guy that is overlappping needs to be paying attention to the guy in the front (americans are really anal with this overlapping thing, in other countries not), if behind... wouldn't care more, is his problem if the guy is not paying attention specially in crossed winds. If the group is over 4 people bad idea overlapping specially going slow and no crossing winds, tracker here, used to ride glued to the front guy and grew in the south pole, you have to master equelons and overlapping wheels together with paying attention.

[shovelhd]

Seriously. 45 seconds is a long pull if you're doing your work...and if you're not, it's an interminable pull!

I'm a big fan of the 15-20 second pull in a cooperative group ride. Heroes are for Saturday morning cartoon shows.

It's dependent on so many factors. I'd hate to be in a group ride for pleasure and be a slave to a clock. It would be the first and last time I did that ride.

[Fishy1923]

Guilty of the snot rockets but when I have to I blow it into my body. If you're doing a hammerfest group ride sometimes you have no option other than blowing it while you're in the paceline (but you need to blow it into your body). So, if you live in an area with bad allergies and you do the hard group rides then you are kind of assuming the risk of getting a little bit of snot over spray, but you shouldn't ever get the whole snot rocket! If in normal group ride, then yes, you need to go to the side or go to the back.

[Bob Ross]

I'd hate to be in a group ride for pleasure and be a slave to a clock. It would be the first and last time I did that ride.

Right, I'm not suggesting militaristic discipline, just a cooperative consensus that everyone will take shorter rather than longer pulls. ime it allows the group to gel better, to find their rhythm as a group.

If you're gonna rotate, rotate...early & often. If you're not gonna rotate, don't complain about how/when/if other riders do.

(True story: Some folks in my Club did a group ride a couple years ago where the Leader stayed on the front for 20+ miles :eek: ...and then had the audacity to complain "No one else would help me pull!")

[milkbaby]

Right, I'm not suggesting militaristic discipline, just a cooperative consensus that everyone will take shorter rather than longer pulls. ime it allows the group to gel better, to find their rhythm as a group.

I agree for the most part, and of course it depends on the group. One of my favorite rides attracts about 20-25 riders of varying abilities. So the amount of pulling a rider does could range from 0 seconds to 3 minutes (or more for sombody feeling good) on the front. As long as it's steady and moving along at a clip everybody is happy with, whatever somebody does on the front is fine. But people have been yelled at to get off the front when they start lagging.

On another ride with some of the same riders but much lower numbers like 3 to 5, we'll end up pulling for 2 to 5 miles at a shot. But we don't have the numbers to boogie along quite as quickly.

One of my pet peeves in a rotating double paceline/echelon is when people move over to the slow lane and drop their speed like 2 mph. That's dangerous to the people right behind them and then they are killing themselves trying to get back on the fast lane.

[peanutgallery]

In no particular order, my peeves on a group ride

surging
cross wheeling
pulling too long
pulling too short
not pulling at all
attacking the group - if you have the energy to attack you can be a man and take your pull
wrong location in accordance to the wind when pulling or pulling thru
wobbly wheel
dirty bike
hole in shorts
a$$ hanging out of shorts
putting the group in potential danger (yellow line, poor road choice, running stop signs, weaving thru cars, etc)
aero bars

I can think of a few more, but this usually gets me going. I'm usually nice when I say something, if they do it again its shenanigans that revolve around your transgression. Turning off and letting you ride into the sunset, gapping you off the back, attacking your pull or just as you pull off...and so on

Guess I'm just crotchety:) Roadies are a funny bunch

[miguel]

dont ride like a yo-yo (stay <~45cm from wheel in front)
do your time in the wind
dont shout commands
drop when you know you need to

[beeatnik]

In no particular order, my peeves on a group ride

surging
cross wheeling
pulling too long
pulling too short
not pulling at all
attacking the group - if you have the energy to attack you can be a man and take your pull
wrong location in accordance to the wind when pulling or pulling thru
wobbly wheel
dirty bike
hole in shorts
a$$ hanging out of shorts
putting the group in potential danger (yellow line, poor road choice, running stop signs, weaving thru cars, etc)
aero bars

I can think of a few more, but this usually gets me going. I'm usually nice when I say something, if they do it again its shenanigans that revolve around your transgression. Turning off and letting you ride into the sunset, gapping you off the back, attacking your pull or just as you pull off...and so on

Guess I'm just crotchety:) Roadies are a funny bunch

peanutgallery, i like your like minds style.

[duck]

peanutgallery, i like your like minds style.

Hey buddy, you missed me ride square over a dropped bottle through the roundabouts on saturday's world champs. There's really no excuse for an ejected bottle.

[beeatnik]

duck, that could have been tragic

[PQJ]

How about the guy who hasn't washed his kit in at least a few rides? Or the guy who has kept the same pairs of shorts in the rotation for so long that they are all virtually transparent on his rear end?

[bcroslin]

In no particular order, my peeves on a group ride

wrong location in accordance to the wind when pulling or pulling thru


This. Makes. Me. Insane.

Everyone is rotating/ pulling off the same way and then one guy just decides to go the other direction. I just don't get it. I've actually had people argue with me when I try to explain why we're all pulling off the same direction.

[shovelhd]

The thing is, the wind changes. A lot of guys don't get that part so they just follow the last guy.

[Jaq]

snot rockets w/out warning

[11.4]

I've ridden in more pacelines than I could count. My conclusion from it all? We all have our irritants, we all have our own failings. I may not like someone who half-wheels, but I may blow snot. So there. Pacelines aren't Sunday afternoon tea with the society ladies. If someone is dangerous, call them on it ... fast. If someone is just blowing snot or having trouble holding a position when they're having a bad day, we're on bikes and we'd just deal with it in a race. We're riding over dog turds and goose turds and breathing exhaust fumes from passing trucks and are the last thing drivers want to encounter on the road. Let's just stay home and ride rollers.

You'd think it's pretty easy to do pacelines on the track? One line, no traffic, rotations every lap, nobody with water bottles, yada yada. Well, pacelines on the track are usually awfully done. Riders don't keep a constant pace, they drift up from the pole, and yes, they blow snot. In short, if it's hard on the track, it's almost impossible on the road. I'd just like to suggest realistic standards. Safety is good, skills are good, no snot is good. But I've yet to see a ride leader who was coaching everyone in skills but didn't have some bad habit of her/his own. Glass houses.

[peanutgallery]

Thank you

Saw one more tonite, a guy showed up shirtless with a helmet mirror. I was beside myself:)

peanutgallery, i like your like minds style.

[Dead Man]

Helmet mirror..

I try to be as non-judgmental as possible.. but there's some stuff that breaks through.

[bcroslin]

The thing is, the wind changes. A lot of guys don't get that part so they just follow the last guy.

I'm talking about the dude who watches 5 people pull off to the left and he decides to pull off right. No wind change. Just stupid.

[beeatnik]

Aero-tucking in a pack

[Fishy1923]

I've ridden in more pacelines than I could count. My conclusion from it all? We all have our irritants, we all have our own failings. I may not like someone who half-wheels, but I may blow snot. So there. Pacelines aren't Sunday afternoon tea with the society ladies. If someone is dangerous, call them on it ... fast. If someone is just blowing snot or having trouble holding a position when they're having a bad day, we're on bikes and we'd just deal with it in a race. We're riding over dog turds and goose turds and breathing exhaust fumes from passing trucks and are the last thing drivers want to encounter on the road. Let's just stay home and ride rollers.

You'd think it's pretty easy to do pacelines on the track? One line, no traffic, rotations every lap, nobody with water bottles, yada yada. Well, pacelines on the track are usually awfully done. Riders don't keep a constant pace, they drift up from the pole, and yes, they blow snot. In short, if it's hard on the track, it's almost impossible on the road. I'd just like to suggest realistic standards. Safety is good, skills are good, no snot is good. But I've yet to see a ride leader who was coaching everyone in skills but didn't have some bad habit of her/his own. Glass houses.

Good post

[shovelhd]

I'm talking about the dude who watches 5 people pull off to the left and he decides to pull off right. No wind change. Just stupid.

That would be annoying and dangerous.

[JimmyTango]

good post

+1

[aramis]

Aero-tucking in a pack

What's wrong with that? If I'm over 35 or so I'll tuck in and stop peddling. You still have your hands on the controls.

[gasman]

What's wrong with that? If I'm over 35 or so I'll tuck in and stop peddling. You still have your hands on the controls.

I think he's talking about aero bars for triathalons. Your hands aren't near the brakes just the shifters.

[beeatnik]

What's wrong with that? If I'm over 35 or so I'll tuck in and stop peddling. You still have your hands on the controls.

The key word is pack. I'm talking 3 or 4 abreast with about a wheel of separation between riders and potholes or typical urban road debris all around. If you think you still have the same control over your machine aero-tucking in tight riding, then....

IMO, if you don't derive any regular income from racing a bicycle, you shouldn't be doing the below (especially azz on top tube) surrounded by weekend warriorz
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8824/17457699078_86f7d50d0f_o.jpg

[Dead Man]

Hmmmm... I guess we need to define "aerotuck" then.... 'cause some guys seem to think it just means knees-and-elbows-in, not peddling. In that case, sure... just as much control as any other time. Or close enough. But if we're not invoking the term "aerotuck" until we've dropped to the top-tube and are hanging over the front of the bike - then hell no, you're sacrificing control for speed. But who would get into that position in the middle of a pack? Not necessary - the dudes in front of you are your windshield.

[Dead Man]

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8824/17457699078_86f7d50d0f_o.jpg

Indeed - we are not in disagreement.

[stansarch]

Flat and immediately brake/swerve pull off group to the side of the road. :confused:

[EDS]

The key word is pack. I'm talking 3 or 4 abreast with about a wheel of separation between riders and potholes or typical urban road debris all around. If you think you still have the same control over your machine aero-tucking in tight riding, then....

IMO, if you don't derive any regular income from racing a bicycle, you shouldn't be doing the below (especially azz on top tube) surrounded by weekend warriorz
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8824/17457699078_86f7d50d0f_o.jpg

But did you see that kid in yesterday's TOC stage that sat on his top tube and kept pedaling in that position? I thought that was pretty neat.

[beeatnik]

Smart kid and great ride! He and the Cipollini got a ton of face time. When Phil first mentioned it they kept showing him in a typical tuck, and I thought what the hell is Phil blabbering about. They finally got the correct video and, damn, not sure I like the pedaling while sitting on the top tube on a Cipo style.

[Red Tornado]

That guy who only shows up occasionally, but when he does insists on pulling as much as he can, and will pick up the pace to keep the next rider in line from overtaking. He doesn't show enough to know the route really well so 1 or 2 times will ride straight when the rest of the group turns. We no longer call him back, by the way. Another possibility is he realizes too late that we have to turn, goes into the turn with too much speed and winds up in the ditch - as the rest of us ride by (after seeing that he's OK).
This is the same guy who spends so much energy to stay on the front - preventing as many other as possible from taking a turn, that by the time we hit the home stretch and are gearing up for the sprint, he gets shelled; then gets hurt feelings because he finishes at the back.

[unterhausen]

I rode a 200k with a guy that didn't know how to stand up -- what a pain.