Cheap Bootleg Chinese Parts

[RedRider]

Every time you buy a generic part, at a great price, from an online source you are probably aiding the bootleg/fake/criminal industry in Asia. There is no such thing as "made in the same factory, using the same process, but not paying for the brand name".
Ebay has cracked down somewhat on the sellers but Alibaba has a reputation for selling fakes. Here's an example of a Firefly dropout being advertised for sale. They even used (stole) their logo!
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Factory-price-bicycle-frame-dropout-Disc_60155976642.html
The prospective buyer is misled and could get a product of questionable quality and safety. Firefly gets ripped off both in dollar terms and reputation.
The world wide web is full of this stuff but I used this example because many members of this forum know and respect Firefly, as a framebuilder, and Tyler as a contributor. So now it's personal.
Spread the word... don't buy this crap.
Rant over. Go ride your bike.

[Tony T]

Every time you buy a generic part, at a great price, from an online source you are probably aiding the bootleg industry in Asia. There is no such thing as "made in the same factory, using the same process, but not paying for the brand name".
Ebay has cracked down somewhat on the sellers but Alibaba has a reputation for selling fakes.

Ebay is just as bad. See: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bicycle-Helmet-Bike-Cycling-Adult-Road-Carbon-EPS-Mountain-Safety-Helmets-/261643203422?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item3ceb26735e
(…and "Report (http://ocs.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ReportItemMember&items=261643203422&seller=china-leds-factory&active=1&state=1)" the item as a counterfeit)

[rnhood]

I've looked at parts from Alibaba on several occasions, as they have some very competitively priced goods. But, I always backed off. I just don't trust that stuff. Frankly, I don't trust the generic carbon wheels although I realize they are popular and appear to be plenty robust nowdays.

[peanutgallery]

Four out of five dentists agree, buy a stem from alibaba

[blasdelf]

Here's an example of a Firefly dropout being advertised for sale. They even used (stole) their logo!
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Factory-price-bicycle-frame-dropout-Disc_60155976642.html
The prospective buyer is misled and could get a product of questionable quality and safety. Firefly gets ripped off both in dollar terms and reputation.

They didn't do anything beyond copy a picture off of Firefly's Flickr — no dropouts have actually been cloned, no dollars exchanged, and certainly nobody who has any idea about Firefly would consider it a hit to their reputation.

These guys just picked the fanciest example they could find to use as a stand-in for a category of things they could make, it's just to have their machine shop show up in a search for dropouts.

[oldpotatoe]

They didn't do anything beyond copy a picture off of Firefly's Flickr — no dropouts have actually been cloned, no dollars exchanged, and certainly nobody who has any idea about Firefly would consider it a hit to their reputation.

These guys just picked the fanciest example they could find to use as a stand-in for a category of things they could make, it's just to have their machine shop show up in a search for dropouts.

Not really the point, yes? It may do nothing to Firefly, they might even not know but these guys are thieves, have no ethics and are scum balls, imho.

If they want to design a dropout and call it anything else, but they chose to steal Firefly's.

[cderalow]

in my opinion... as long as they're not using the actual item they're cloning's trademarks...

no issues.

no different than a generic version of Tylenol or Kleenex...

My problem is using the manufacturer's real logos on a cloned item.

For the most part, the generic chinese stuff is hit of miss..

I've bought two of the exact same FSA knockoff seatposts... one cracked one is fine.

the generic titanium skewers have been fine.

[rwsaunders]

How these clowns stay on the web is beyond me...

http://www.dhgate.com/product/one-piece-2015-new-lightweight-breathable/235273258.html#s1-2-7a|2997257689

[yngpunk]

Sites like DHGate and Alibaba are China based, where they have no incentive to police what is listed on their site. However, I bet you won't find any Falun Gong or Tiananmen Square protest "memorabilia" on either of those sites.:eek:

[GRAVELBIKE]

How these clowns stay on the web is beyond me...

http://www.dhgate.com/product/one-piece-2015-new-lightweight-breathable/235273258.html#s1-2-7a|2997257689

It's a good thing that they "only facus {sic} on sports apparel."

[rwsaunders]

It's a good thing that they "only facus {sic} on sports apparel."

And most likely collecting your credit card number for future purchases...

[yngpunk]

You need to read the "Authenticity Guaranteed" under the "Shopping Condition of Use" section near the bottom.

We sell genuine faux items

[JeffS]

Yea, I'd probably be ranting too if my business model was based on selling brand names to people.



On a related note. Were you searching alibaba for firefly or dropouts?

[CunegoFan]

For the most part, the generic chinese stuff is hit of miss..

I've bought two of the exact same FSA knockoff seatposts... one cracked one is fine.


That is about par for real FSA components. http://forums.thepaceline.net/images/smilies/banana.gif

[don compton]

I don't know if the part was counterfeit, but i bought a new,unused Ritchey stem on Ebay and the stem was so poorly manufactured that it would lock up the stem.
I have never seen that exact model and I think it was a counterfeit. Oh well

[dave thompson]

If it's a "brand name", Ritchey for example, and it's coming from China, I'd speculate that it is a counterfeit.

[hesh0925]

There was a cool magazine article (at least I think it was from a magazine) comparing the difference between a real Tarmac and a Chinese knockoff. Showed some cool cross section diagrams of the carbon weaving that was quite neat. I wish I could find it again. :(

[Black Dog]

There was a cool magazine article (at least I think it was from a magazine) comparing the difference between a real Tarmac and a Chinese knockoff. Showed some cool cross section diagrams of the carbon weaving that was quite neat. I wish I could find it again. :(

It was in the April issue of Velonews.

[El Chaba]

Actually, I regard ALL Chinese parts as cheap bootlegs....

[Brian Smith]

How worrisome is this, really?

I'm not sure anything has been pilfered other than an online photo.
I'd further suggest that if one really felt motivated to discourage this behavior by the supplier on BABA, pony up for the 10 pieces at $0.10 - $0.30 per piece. They won't make money on them at that volume and price, and you won't re-order in an economically viable quantity.
Unlike components like stems, handlebars, frames, wheels, this is not a part that is a substitute for another retail good.

I don't think there's anything for sale by Firefly that is procurable for less by anyone else to resell, and anything they do offer is more than a collection of reproducible knockoff components. If so, Firefly would likely change something.

Before BABA, and before the internet was an important part of bicycle commerce, one could easily find, without looking hard, knockoff versions of last year's bicycle frame parts' styles and components from suppliers worldwide. Often, such items delivered a visual style without the underlying performance of the original item. This kind of activity is likely to persist. If anyone reading this is going to place an order, let me know, I'll follow it up with another 10-piece order to show some interest, and a contribution to Firefly towards their next version of a dropout.

[cdn_bacon]

stats are staggering if you feel like reading.

http://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/2014%20IPR%20Stats.pdf

[blasdelf]

Not really the point, yes? It may do nothing to Firefly, they might even not know but these guys are thieves, have no ethics and are scum balls, imho.

If they want to design a dropout and call it anything else, but they chose to steal Firefly's.

You still have no idea what Alibaba is actually for

They have no intention of actually making that dropout, or making anything like it on spec. They're a contract machine shop, the sole purpose of the listing is to say "we can make your fancy dropouts for you"

If you started the negotiation process, they'd ask you for drawings of what you wanted, not design it for you even as a clone.

[buddybikes]

Made in Medford MA (right outside of Boston

http://theradavist.com/2014/10/peter-verdone-designs-new-firefly-disc-dropout/

http://www.cantabrigianmechanics.com