Tire Choice for dirt Gran Fondo

[stephenmarklay]

Next weekend I will be riding a 66 mile gran fond with about 40 miles of dirt.

I am running veloflex master 25’s on Velocity A23’s but I am not sure they are the best choice for the ride.

I am also not tiny at 190 and I would appreciate input on tire pressure also.

Thanks a ton.

Stephen

[David Tollefson]

25's likely won't do it. Or at least won't do it without a few spares and a patch kit.

Go with the biggest tire that will fit in your frame. Unless it's gonna be muddy or real MTB-like, then a semi-slick will get you there just fine.

[dolface]

If you can fit a 28 Conti 4-Season on there I'd recommend that. Run it at 80-85psi and you should be fine (but bring a tube, a patch kit, and a boot because ···· happens).

[stephenmarklay]

I am riding my Bridgestone Rb-1 and I can get a pretty good size tire in it. 28’s are no problem. I think I may be able to even do a large tire but I don’t want a 500g tire as there is a fair amount of climbing.

[Cicli]

Vittoria Pave 27's. Very nice durable tires.

[bcgav]

What kind of dirt? Hard-packed dirt roads, looser dirt with rocks, gravel? A combination?

You could likely get away with 28s for most of the above unless it's really loose or soft with larger rocks/gravel, then 32-35 might be more prudent especially at your rider weight.

[morrisericd]

I couldn't be happier with my Conti Cyclocross Speed 35 tires. I've ridden them all over Vermont's dirt roads (and pavement) and in many Gran Fondo's and dirt races including this year's Rasputitsa (check it out - really cool ride and they also do a Fall version called the Dirty 40). Great tire.

[merckx]

I couldn't be happier with my Conti Cyclocross Speed 35 tires. I've ridden them all over Vermont's dirt roads (and pavement) and in many Gran Fondo's and dirt races including this year's Rasputitsa (check it out - really cool ride and they also do a Fall version called the Dirty 40). Great tire.

What is the actual width of the Speed 35's?

[stephenmarklay]

I think I can fit a 32mm in there and that may be the choice. I am not sure what the roads are like but I my guess is hard packed dirt with a lot loose gravel like. Like riding on ball bearings :)

What about compass stampede pass tires? Reasonable weight for a 32mm tire and looks like it will roll on the pavement well.

[oldpotatoe]

25's likely won't do it. Or at least won't do it without a few spares and a patch kit.

Go with the biggest tire that will fit in your frame. Unless it's gonna be muddy or real MTB-like, then a semi-slick will get you there just fine.

?? I ride my Moots with 25c Vittoria Open Paves on dirt roads all the time. without a single flat since I don't know when(knock on wood). I'm .1 offa ton also..run about 90 psi max.

But sure if the guy's frame/fork can accept a bigger tire, sure, use it but 25c decent Pave type tires on dirt doesn't mean an auto flat.

[sjauch2]

Vittoria Pave 27's. Very nice durable tires.

This.

[johnmdesigner]

Pana racer has a gravel grinder tire in 28 and 32 sizes for $39.00 each from Excel. Fairly smooth casing. I haven't tried it.
I rode the Vermont gap gravel roads on 23s without a flat so it can be done. But maybe it was beginners luck.
Tried Victoria Rubio 28 upstate ny gravel had 2 flats in 25 miles.
Michelin jet 32s for upstate large gravel works just fine.
Regular cross tires great for the gravel but slow on the pavement.
You don't have any time to experiment. Get a 28 or 32 smooth casing and lower the pressure. You'll be fine.

[sandyrs]

Pana racer has a gravel grinder tire in 28 and 32 sizes for $39.00 each from Excel. Fairly smooth casing. I haven't tried it.
I rode the Vermont gap gravel roads on 23s without a flat so it can be done. But maybe it was beginners luck.
Tried Victoria Rubio 28 upstate ny gravel had 2 flats in 25 miles.
Michelin jet 32s for upstate large gravel works just fine.
Regular cross tires great for the gravel but slow on the pavement.
You don't have any time to experiment. Get a 28 or 32 smooth casing and lower the pressure. You'll be fine.

The 32 gravel King is a knobby.

[mhespenheide]

What is the actual width of the Speed 35's?

I don't have actual measurements at the moment, but my Speed 35's (on narrow rims) are perceptibly narrower than my Conti 4-Season 28's (on wide rims).

[johnmdesigner]

The 32 gravel King is a knobby.

Well glad I didn't order then. The picture I saw was of a smooth casing tire.

[Michael Maddox]

I'm going to step out of line here and recommend a Kenda Small Block 8. I know it's a knobby, but it's a fast, easy knobby that has been great for me in loose conditions. Plus, it's a tight enough tread pattern that it's not a crazy-bad thing to ride on pavement. And, it's available in 700x32.

You're going to be riding MOSTLY in crap, so gear up for the bad parts. Just because you CAN ride slicks doesn't necessarily mean you SHOULD. At least, that's my take.

Sounds like a fun ride!

[merckx]

I don't have actual measurements at the moment, but my Speed 35's (on narrow rims) are perceptibly narrower than my Conti 4-Season 28's (on wide rims).

Thanks for the response. I measure GP4S 28's on Mavic MA 40 rims at 26.5mm, and about 28mm on TB14 rims. The Speeds sound pretty narrow.

[miguel]

I'm gonna go ahead and say that if you're worried about weight vs performance for tires on a ~70 mile ride then you should probably buy the most expensive and biggest tire that fits in the frame. Brand doesn't matter if you have limited experience riding on dirt. Your buddies who spend more time on their bikes on gravel are going to perform better than you anyway.

[CAAD]

Gravel king 28s. Great riding tire for the price. Rolls well and isnt a total pig of a tire. Run some latex tubes to reduce pinch flats, thats my experience anyways. I have done quite a few nasty gravel/limestone rides without indecent. Im around 180 lbs and like the tires at 70/75 for dirt/road mix rides. All pavement they get 85/90

[GRAVELBIKE]

On the cheap: Panaracer Pasela w/o any extra armor/flat protection
Not cheap: Compass

Pick the biggest ones that'll clear your frame/fork.

[bcroslin]

You can do it on 25's but if you want to be comfortable go with a 27-28.

[merlinmurph]

As usual, it depends.

Surprised nobody has asked this yet: Do have any idea what kind of dirt you'll be riding on? It's probably best to check the website for the ride and find someone who has done the ride.

If the ride is on well-maintained dirt roads, you can probably use what you've got. If it ventures off onto less-maintained or non-maintained roads/trails, you might want something else.

We have a beautiful ride out here called the Grand Fundo that Jeremy Powers organizes as a fundraiser for his JAM Fund Cycling Team (btw, a great event). The route has over 20 miles of dirt roads and I just use my road bike with its 25mm tires. On other rides, I prefer using the cross bike with its fatter tires.

Again, it depends.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

What about compass stampede pass tires? Reasonable weight for a 32mm tire and looks like it will roll on the pavement well.

I just fit a pair of Stampede Pass (Extra Light) tires on my Strong Gravel/CX bike. The tires roll super smooth on pavement. I can't speak to how they perform in the dirt as I haven't taken them out on dirt roads. Really, really liking them right now.

[GRAVELBIKE]

I just fit a pair of Stampede Pass (Extra Light) tires on my Strong Gravel/CX bike. The tires roll super smooth on pavement. I can't speak to how they perform in the dirt as I haven't taken them out on dirt roads. Really, really liking them right now.

The Stampedes work really well on hard-packed dirt. Gravel is no problem, either, as long as it's not too deep.

[sandyrs]

Well glad I didn't order then. The picture I saw was of a smooth casing tire.

Yeah, I almost made that mistake too! As I understand it, the 23, 26 and 28 are the smooth casings, but the 32 and upcoming larger tire have knobs.

[GRAVELBIKE]

Yeah, I almost made that mistake too! As I understand it, the 23, 26 and 28 are the smooth casings, but the 32 and upcoming larger tire have knobs.

Yes, 23/26/28 have the file/herringbone tread, whereas the 32s have the knobby "lego" tread.

A 32/35/37mm Pasela works well on dirt and is still fast/smooth on pavement.

[beeatnik]

I'm gonna go ahead and say that if you're worried about weight vs performance for tires on a ~70 mile ride then you should probably buy the most expensive and biggest tire that fits in the frame. Brand doesn't matter if you have limited experience riding on dirt. Your buddies who spend more time on their bikes on gravel are going to perform better than you anyway.

this sounds a little rude, but he's right.

the Cat below ran 25s on china carbon rims. he finished 2nd on the toughest gravel ride in Murica (Menso's SLO Ride to Hell) and took the KOM at the Belgian Waffle Ride. Check the tires of the 2 pros who also podiumed:

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8563/15993994284_307b05619b_b.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7742/16712178894_61fe61f275_b.jpg

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8837/17146937538_2f95e04cc2_o.png

I like these guys (Vittoria Cross XN Pro 32s):

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8662/16589864096_c21e499ae3_b.jpg

www.catella.net

[Lewis Moon]

On the cheap: Panaracer Pasela w/o any extra armor/flat protection
Not cheap: Compass

Pick the biggest ones that'll clear your frame/fork.

If they made the regular folding Pasela in 35c that would be my go to training tires on my X-Fire/Hodala/Warhawk.
I'd love to have a day to day training tire that I could ride on gravel fire roads but not sacrifice too much if I wanted to jump into a fast group ride on the road.
It seems as if the tire companies are caught in a bind. If they even mention "flat protection" they have to go all out, bead to bead or folks will freak out and spray all over the riding forums if they get a flat riding through a sea of razor blades.
A friend here at work has started doing a bunch of gravel riding and has been really pissed because he has been getting a lot of sidewall rips. The problem is, he's riding CX tires. CX does not equal gravel when it comes to tires. If a CX tire had the flat protection needed for riding gravel, it would probably put you on your ass on the very first sloppy, high speed, off camber turn. There are trade offs. Hopefully the tire companies are looking for a good compromise between traction, ride/rolling resistance and flat protection for gravel.

[GRAVELBIKE]

If they made the regular folding Pasela in 35c that would be my go to training tires on my X-Fire/Hodala/Warhawk.
I'd love to have a day to day training tire that I could ride on gravel fire roads but not sacrifice too much if I wanted to jump into a fast group ride on the road.
It seems as if the tire companies are caught in a bind. If they even mention "flat protection" they have to go all out, bead to bead or folks will freak out and spray all over the riding forums if they get a flat riding through a sea of razor blades.
A friend here at work has started doing a bunch of gravel riding and has been really pissed because he has been getting a lot of sidewall rips. The problem is, he's riding CX tires. CX does not equal gravel when it comes to tires. If a CX tire had the flat protection needed for riding gravel, it would probably put you on your ass on the very first sloppy, high speed, off camber turn. There are trade offs. Hopefully the tire companies are looking for a good compromise between traction, ride/rolling resistance and flat protection for gravel.

SOMA C-Line has a folding bead and a lightweight casing. Only comes in 700x38, though. It's a very nice riding tire.

Also check out Vittoria's Voyager Hyper (formerly known as the Randonneur Hyper).

[stephenmarklay]

As usual, it depends.

Surprised nobody has asked this yet: Do have any idea what kind of dirt you'll be riding on? It's probably best to check the website for the ride and find someone who has done the ride.

If the ride is on well-maintained dirt roads, you can probably use what you've got. If it ventures off onto less-maintained or non-maintained roads/trails, you might want something else.

We have a beautiful ride out here called the Grand Fundo that Jeremy Powers organizes as a fundraiser for his JAM Fund Cycling Team (btw, a great event). The route has over 20 miles of dirt roads and I just use my road bike with its 25mm tires. On other rides, I prefer using the cross bike with its fatter tires.

Again, it depends.

Thanks! I did actually talk to organizer today. He said I could do it on 25’s but 28’s or cyclocross would be better if they fit.

[weisan]

whatever tire you ended up with, be sure to play with the air pressure to find the sweet spot or else...kinda defeat the purpose.

[stephenmarklay]

Yes, 23/26/28 have the file/herringbone tread, whereas the 32s have the knobby "lego" tread.

A 32/35/37mm Pasela works well on dirt and is still fast/smooth on pavement.


Is this the one? http://www.amazon.com/Panaracer-Pasela-Tire-Wire-Gumwall/dp/B001CK0GUG

[choke]

Is this the one? http://www.amazon.com/Panaracer-Pasela-Tire-Wire-Gumwall/dp/B001CK0GUGThat does appear to be the non-Tour Guard version which most people seem to prefer over the TG.

FWIW, I've used the 28mm Pasela TG (largest that would fit) on dirt/gravel with excellent results.

[stephenmarklay]

I’m tempted to try several tires that I have always read about. The Riv Rolly Polly for one. The Vittoria Pave 27, but that panaracer 32 knobby, would be pretty fun on the RB-1.

I really like the Veloflex Master 25 so right now I will likely run that normally.

[GRAVELBIKE]

Is this the one? http://www.amazon.com/Panaracer-Pasela-Tire-Wire-Gumwall/dp/B001CK0GUG

Yup, that's the one. Nice ride, decent traction off-road, and you can't beat the price.

[Vientomas]

I have been using the Panaracer T-Serv Protex in 28 on a Calfee, and in 32 on a Black Mountain Cycles on the Forest Service dirt roads of Northern Idaho with absolutely no problems.

https://www.biketiresdirect.com/product/panaracer-t-serv-protex

[stephenmarklay]

Thanks Vientomas. Hey you should join me on the ride next weekend. Its here in north Spokane. Look up http://www.emdesports.com/life-at-camp.html. Its the Nitty Gritty Gran Fondo.

[stephenmarklay]

I greatly appreciate all the feedback, ideas and comments. I decided to give the Vittoria CG Pave in a 27. I have enjoyed Vittoria CX tires in the past so I am sure this will be a good tire with enough volume to get me through the ride.

[Vientomas]

Thanks Vientomas. Hey you should join me on the ride next weekend. Its here in north Spokane. Look up http://www.emdesports.com/life-at-camp.html. Its the Nitty Gritty Gran Fondo.

Thanks for the invitation. Unfortunately, I will be unable to attend. Have a great time. It looks like a nice course. I have not ridden in that area. Perhaps you can post a ride and tire report after the event?

[stephenmarklay]

Thanks for the invitation. Unfortunately, I will be unable to attend. Have a great time. It looks like a nice course. I have not ridden in that area. Perhaps you can post a ride and tire report after the event?

Absolutely I will. I anticipate if being a good time. I am hoping to come away with all my skin intact too. :)

[stephenmarklay]

I went with a friend to do a pre-ride on the route. Oh snap. This is hard course. There will be accidents, people will cry and feelings will be hurt.

My new tires were set to arrive today but I left early. I had some Rubino pro tires in 28’s but the rear was a bit flat in the center. But that is what I had.

The good news is that they worked great at 90 rear and 85 front. I may just leave them on for Saturday as they worked and I don’t want to make any big changes if I don’t have to.

The route as a lot great gravel attractions like washboards, washouts, 10% grade climbs (heck it starts out with a climb that must be a mile long) and a ton of pain and uncertainty.

Wow what a great time.

[GRAVELBIKE]

Try dropping the pressure 7-10 psi.

[Vientomas]

Try dropping the pressure 7-10 psi.

Good advice.

[stephenmarklay]

I had them at 80F/85R but added 5 at the last minute worrying about pinch flats. The guy I rode with was at 70F/R on 30mm tires but he only weighs 140 and I am 190.

Maybe I will try 80/85. The washboards in some areas were pretty bad and twice my hands flew off the bars and only luck kept me up. Maybe a little less pressure will soften them.

[oldpotatoe]

I went with a friend to do a pre-ride on the route. Oh snap. This is hard course. There will be accidents, people will cry and feelings will be hurt.

My new tires were set to arrive today but I left early. I had some Rubino pro tires in 28’s but the rear was a bit flat in the center. But that is what I had.

The good news is that they worked great at 90 rear and 85 front. I may just leave them on for Saturday as they worked and I don’t want to make any big changes if I don’t have to.

The route as a lot great gravel attractions like washboards, washouts, 10% grade climbs (heck it starts out with a climb that must be a mile long) and a ton of pain and uncertainty.

Wow what a great time.

Tee hee:)

[merlinmurph]

I had them at 80F/85R but added 5 at the last minute worrying about pinch flats. The guy I rode with was at 70F/R on 30mm tires but he only weighs 140 and I am 190.

Maybe I will try 80/85. The washboards in some areas were pretty bad and twice my hands flew off the bars and only luck kept me up. Maybe a little less pressure will soften them.

If I were doing a dirt ride and had my tires up to 85/90 because I feared for pinch flats, I would get a wider tire.

But, that's just me. Ask 100 people about what tire to use and you'll get 100 different answers. ;-) Like anything else, there are compromises. Regardless, don't put too much thought into this, you'll drive yourself nuts. You'll have a blast no matter what tire you use.

Enjoy your dirt ride,
Murph (who uses 40mm Clement MSO's for a cushy ride)

[stephenmarklay]

I wanted to follow up on how this all worked out. I ran 80/85 with my Vittoria Pave tires and they worked great. They were good on the dirt - I never felt like I was skating on ice and it muted much of imperfections. On the pavement I never felt them being squishy or imprecise either.

The ride was fantastic. I found myself being competitive even though my condition is not great. It was really fun to get out and suffer a bit.

This was really about my first real gravel experience and I really loved being able to do it. My RB-1 was a standout among all the carbon. The guy that claimed the number one spot (was more than 30 MINUTES faster than I was) was on a Taramac with Zipp 404F/R. Super cool guy and he has raced that configuration in a lot of dirt races.

I think I am going to keep my RB-1 as a Gravel Grinder. I works well and accepts big tires. I think I may need to upgrade the 1990’s 105SC gear :) I am at a 10 pound weight disadvantage with it but then again I am at a 50 pound bodyweight disadvantage so who cares.