OT: For those who have walked the walk...

[1happygirl]

Rehabbing an old colonial..

Is it financially and emotionally better to sell the house and buy new or rehab a structure that needs massive work (roof, landscaping, drainage)?

Talking the folks into selling and getting something newer /closer.

Yard is taking a toll and bikes lay dormant.

Thanks in advance as usual PBT (Paceline Brain Trust) for any advice from those who have walked the walk.

[NHAero]

Take this with as much salt as needed (though I am a design professional and building forensic engineer):
1 - Unless the location is "can't be replaced" I don't recommend that people try to fix a house with significant moisture issues due to bad decisions made when the house was built - putting it in a wet place, with bad grading, always fighting water and gravity.
2 - It's hard to get the investment back out if major repairs that account for 100 years of bad design/construction and/or major lack of maintenance. I recently looked at a lovely 150 yr old farmhouse in a great spot here on Martha's Vineyard from some clients. It sits on a stone foundation, mostly crawl space that even a runt like me can barely squeeze into. It's on the shore of a beautiful pond. The house has other moisture issues. The right way to really fix this once and for all is to lift the house in place and put a good foundation under it, with moisture control and a proper thermal boundary to the ground. That's expensive, and the next owner won't want to pay for it when you set the selling price.

I think it's worth putting major money into a place when a) it's in a great location that you want to be for the long term and b) when that investment buys you something you can't buy on the market otherwise. We did that in 2013, buying a modest house on $$$ Martha's Vineyard which we gutted and rebuilt so that it's beautiful and full of light and superinsulated with solar electricity so we have a surplus of energy (future electric car). We wouldn't get our money back out tomorrow if we sold, but we love it and we can't buy a version of this house so we had to make it.

[fogrider]

putting money into a house that needs a lot of work is tricky. a house can be a money pit! there are many factors to consider...what's the market look like in the neighborhood? what can you get for the same money? take a look around and see what the comps are. then, how much can you do yourself? if you sell your house in it's present condition, how much is realistic? if it needs work and the market is soft, you might not even get any offers. but if the market is hot, there might be folks that will want to do work to it anyways and will not care what the current condition is.

[MattTuck]

Can't say I've walked the walk, but it sounds like you need to seriously consider the concept of sunk cost before moving any further.

As others have said, you need to consider how you're going to spend your money (renovate, buy new, rent, etc.) based on the future, not based on how much money/emotion you have spent in the past.

[Mr. Pink]

Let's not forget modern electricity and plumbing. Then, overall energy efficiency. After that, the usual roof and foundation, and, well, best to start over.

When I lived upstate and saw the prices for a farmhouse with twenty acres, I'd say, damn, I could swing that. More seasoned locals calmly taught me not to even think about it.

[93legendti]

I guess it depends on the age of the house and what needs done. But if the money put into a house is not done for flipping or improving your living situation in a house you expect to be in a long time, I say let it be someone else's project/headache.

I've lived thru 2 additions in our house of 22 years. Tough and frustrating, but we accomplished what we wanted and will be here for many years-not to mention we added bathrooms and bedrooms, which increased the value.

[BSUdude]

Really need a lot more information to be able to give helpful advice. If the problems were limited to a new roof and landscaping, those are pretty easy to solve. Landscaping is all cosmetic and a roof is periodic maintenance issue for any building. "Drainage" implies moisture issues and might be able to be handled in a pretty straightforward manner or might be much more difficult depending on the site.

Decision should factor emotional attachment to the property and resale value pre-repairs.

[1happygirl]

Take this with as much salt as needed (though I am a design professional and building forensic engineer):
snipped
I think it's worth putting major money into a place when a) NO to this question and b) when that investment buys you something you can't buy on the market otherwise.
B> This is what it has going for it
.

snip ...what's the market look like in the neighborhood? Bad . This is the biggest most expensive in neighborhood what can you get for the same money?
Not this.
then, how much can you do yourself?
Nothing for myself. Happy girl is unfortunately not a yard/drainage person.



snip

As others have said, you need to considoing to spend your money (renovate, buy new, rent, etc.) based on the future, not based on how much money/emotion you have spent in the past.

Unfortunately emotions. I'm in love with it. Hard to find this much hardwood at this price on floors anywhere.

Also unfortunately 800 sq foot basement now has 3.5" of water in it. Just a guess, but appears foundation of basement built below water table. Sigh.
All windows need new glazing.

[Seramount]

in a previous life, I refurbed several old (one was on the state historic list) houses in Oregon. lots of water-related issues there...

altho it can be a rewarding experience, it is time-, labor-, and money-intensive to do it correctly. my partner and I did as much of the work as possible, but subbed out major structural issues to professionals.

be prepared to find all sorts of horrific examples of previous owners' DIY projects. botched plumbing and wiring can be seriously difficult/costly to bring up to current code.

I loved bringing neglected, dilapidated basket cases back to life, but it just know that it can take a toll on you and your bank acct.

also depends on how emotionally attached you are to the place in question....

[BSUdude]

Unfortunately emotions. I'm in love with it. Hard to find this much hardwood at this price on floors anywhere.

Also unfortunately 800 sq foot basement now has 3.5" of water in it. Just a guess, but appears foundation of basement built below water table. Sigh.
All windows need new glazing.

Perimeter drain + sump pump if your site slopes enough to achieve positive drainage from your perimeter drain out to a lower elevation. If you really want a dry basement, cut into the slab of your basement and add an underslab drain as well. But interior excavation is a lot of work/$$ if you hire crews to do the work, and the same statement applies about your site topography sloping to a lower elevation.

[paredown]

I'm a serial renovator--and if you can't do a portion of the work yourself, I doubt you will be able to get out of the house what you put into it.

The previous one was my Waterloo--I found out that you can change a sow's ear into a silk purse, but it was the biggest financial debacle of our shared life--everything cost significantly more than the architects budgeted, to a point that it cost nearly twice what they initially estimated. When we finally unloaded it after the "Great Recession" hit it was for less than what we paid for the renovations, and had to come to the closing with cash to get out from under it.

The current one is a labor of necessity--and I am doing all the work myself, but the downside of that is that it has consumed all of my waking hours for far too long. And I know that there will be no huge upside when it comes time to sell.

The problem with the proposition is that there has been too little appreciation in most markets to even cover what you will spend getting it right.

Houses are sold as if they are finite things, but really they are depreciating consumables--and eventually everything wears out or needs upgrading.

Yet the seller, the mortgage industry and the whole sham of home inspections etc conspire to convince home buyers 'Oh, a little work will put this right...' We're maintaining a house now for a local realtor--badly built house from the '70s--and some young couple is going to plunk down $500k for a house that needs a lot of work. And their mortgage company is fussing at the margins about uninspected/unpermitted work, and ignoring the basic shoddiness of the house.

[Louis]

Also unfortunately 800 sq foot basement now has 3.5" of water in it. Just a guess, but appears foundation of basement built below water table. Sigh.

For now forget the long-term. Regardless of what happens in the future, you need to get that water out asap.

Simplest short-term solution is a sump pump with as low an intake as you can find and a long hose. Then a good dehumidifier with a setup that allows you to run it without having to empty the bucket manually. A hose that uses gravity to route the dehumidifier output into a small condensate pump that then pumps it to a drain or outside works well.

Medium term would be to figure out where the water's coming from, and if you can solve the problem simply by re-routing the flow outside.

Once you've figured that out you can make better long-term decisions.

Good Luck

[Ken Robb]

I was a real estate broker for 36 years so you might expect me to always say:"Sell/buy!" But we shouldn't think of homes as investments first. I think there is a current advertisement stating that our homes are where life happens and that is true. There can be a feeling of continuity of life in old homes that is worth more than the cost of improvements plus equity. It may be that some folks will be happier in an old place with character and drafts than in a new climate-controlled "perfect" environment. Only the owners can decide what is right for them.

[Tandem Rider]

Moisture will ruin a house faster than you can imagine. Get the water out. Today. A cheap submersible utility pump hooks to a garden hose, sits on the basement floor and draws lower than a sump pump. When it begins to run dry, pick it up and move it to the low spot and sweep all of the water to it.

Sounds like the house has a lot of issues that you cannot remedy without a lot of $$ unless you can accomplish the work yourself. These issues are keeping you from doing what you really want to do in your free time, causing the house to run your life with no end in sight. Unless you have the resources to get it done correctly (not necessarily the cheapest bid) the only thing that will change is the weather.

[Ralph]

No way can you justify it financially. If you redo the house, it has to be for aother reason.

[oldpotatoe]

Of various HGTV episodes like Flip or Flop, Renovate to Rent, Love it or List it, Holmes on Homes...

Then decide..or call/email one of those shows..see if they will feature it. 3.5 feet of water in a basement is always a bad thing.

[Louis]

3.5 feet of water in a basement is always a bad thing.

Well, the good news is that it's 3.5 inches of water, not feet...

Edit: A while back I saw some pictures of a house that had over 3.5 feet of water in the basement. Not a pretty sight. It looked like a river had come though it. A storm sewer drain outside had gotten clogged (1.75" of rain in less than 30 minutes carried all the accumulated fall and winter junk away at once) causing the water to rise and come in the basement through a window.

[tiretrax]

Talking the folks into selling and getting something newer /closer.

Yard is taking a toll and bikes lay dormant.


If this is your parents' house, the answer is more about what they can live through. Also, if the decision is to sell, some work might be required to make the house marketable. Drainage work is probably needed, and it may only require some minor work. It's really hard to say without looking at the house and knowing more facts - is this a long term, recurring problem or one related to unusual snowfall/weather this year; is basement in water table (or has the water table changed), etc.

[Lewis Moon]

If you love it, triage what needs fixed now and what can wait, and do it in that order. I mean really make some brutal decisions there. You may have to spend a large chunk of money/time on something that really doesn't make you happier...but it needs to be done or the house will blow up.
Renovation is a long, expensive process. We moved from a brand new house to a 45 year old "fixer-upper" in order to get a better location and better schools. We put on a new roof the week we moved. Just signed a contract for all new windows. Took down one tree and waiting to do three more (palm trees), Need: new floors, new paint (in and out) new wiring, new driveway, xeriscaping, more storage, more insulation, storm doors....the list goes on. Nowhere near what you are doing, but a time/money sink none-the-less. I have 1/2 the mileage in this year when compared to last, but we live in a MUCH nicer place (Tempe...not the house).

[staggerwing]

In many ways, houses are living breathing entities.

Even something relatively recent, say built in the last 15-20 years, would be filled with expensive items needing replacement. Roofs, HVAC systems, water heaters, wooden decks. and most appliances, are examples of expensive items that don't make it past 20 years. Kitchens and primary bathrooms are generally on the 20-25 year plan too.

FWIW, I would much rather step into a well maintained older home, than a "newer" home, needing updating. Condition, situation (less busy street, higher ground, etc.), and location are more important to me than age. That said, understand I live in a 110yo home.

Of course, with parents, there may be an issue of sentimentality, and how the home works with decreased physical abilities from aging.

[572cv]

For now forget the long-term. Regardless of what happens in the future, you need to get that water out asap.

Simplest short-term solution is a sump pump with as low an intake as you can find and a long hose. Then a good dehumidifier with a setup that allows you to run it without having to empty the bucket manually. A hose that uses gravity to route the dehumidifier output into a small condensate pump that then pumps it to a drain or outside works well.

Medium term would be to figure out where the water's coming from, and if you can solve the problem simply by re-routing the flow outside.

Once you've figured that out you can make better long-term decisions.

Good Luck

This is important, whether you are going to keep the house or sell it. Any buyer would discount hugely if the basement were that wet. Get the water and the moisture out first, in the most expedient way possible. Then you can determine whether the leak is from water just oozing in all around, or perhaps from a crack in the foundation. There are reasonable and effective basement sealing solutions, but check the feedback on any vendor. There is at least one around here (VT) which has a good track record. They can seal cracks pretty well.
With a sound foundation you have something to start with, or to sell. Good luck with all this!