Disc Brake spoking advice

[foo_fighter]

I'm finally about to undertake building a custom wheelset. As they are for disc brakes, I plan to use the Shimano/Schraner recommendation of having the outside spoke be under tension during braking or acceleration. Of course that means that on the rear wheel the spokes are asymmetrical.

The common recommendation for spoking is to insert the head outs/ inside spokes on both the left and right sides, then twist the hub and then lace/weave the outside spokes.

I don't see how to do this with the asymmetric pattern. One would have to lace the inside drive side spoke and the outside brake side spokes first since they are in the same direction and then twist.

Either that or use the Schraner method of doing one whole side first and then switching to the other side.

Any thoughts?

[pcxmbfj]

I use Schaner's method on newly built wheels.
Just follow the instructions and illustrations making sure you know when the illustrations have flipped the wheel.
You need the book.
Be patient and check lacing pattern after every round.

Prefer to Shelton Brown now.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm finally about to undertake building a custom wheelset. As they are for disc brakes, I plan to use the Shimano/Schraner recommendation of having the outside spoke be under tension during braking or acceleration. Of course that means that on the rear wheel the spokes are asymmetrical.

The common recommendation for spoking is to insert the head outs/ inside spokes on both the left and right sides, then twist the hub and then lace/weave the outside spokes.

I don't see how to do this with the asymmetric pattern. One would have to lace the inside drive side spoke and the outside brake side spokes first since they are in the same direction and then twist.

Either that or use the Schraner method of doing one whole side first and then switching to the other side.

Any thoughts?

I do inside pulling on disc brake hubs..not sure if that's what's mentioned. On non disc, outside pulling.

[foo_fighter]

Yeah, Shimano and DT recommend outside pulling for braking on the disc side and for acceleration on the drive side, though the difference is probably minor. On the rear, it makes spoking a bit cumbersome.

I do inside pulling on disc brake hubs..not sure if that's what's mentioned. On non disc, outside pulling.

[oldpotatoe]

Yeah, Shimano and DT recommend outside pulling for braking on the disc side and for acceleration on the drive side, though the difference is probably minor. On the rear, it makes spoking a bit cumbersome.

The idea is to have enough clearance from the spoke to the rotor when braking..

[ergott]

I lace rear disc wheels like I do any other wheel (pulling elbows out)

I turn a front hub around and treat the brake side (left) the same way (pulling elbows out) so it ends up being opposite the rear.

I really doesn't matter. The only possible issue is with the TRP HY/RDs since clearance is an issue. I'd rather pass on brakes that have clearance issues.

[oldpotatoe]

I lace rear disc wheels like I do any other wheel (pulling elbows out)

I turn a front hub around and treat the brake side (left) the same way (pulling elbows out) so it ends up being opposite the rear.

I really doesn't matter. The only possible issue is with the TRP HY/RDs since clearance is an issue. I'd rather pass on brakes that have clearance issues.

Mee too..outside pulling on the rear, inside pulling on the front..but it really doesn't matter if the wheel is tensioned properly.

[Mark McM]

^^^ Ditto Ergott and oldpotatoe - it really doesn't make much difference.

Spokes break from fatigue (a continuous process of built-up damage, due to a high number of loading cycles), not a momentary overload. Since only a small fraction of time is spent braking, braking doesn't contribute significantly to spoke failure.

[foo_fighter]

I ended up lacing the fronts as if the disc side was the drive side.

For the rears, I used a modified version of Zinn's method. That is to lace the drive side inside spokes, then 1 outside spoke on the non-drive side so you can rotate the hub, then the inside spokes on the non-drive side.
The 3rd and 4th set are similar, but being all outside spokes makes it easier to snake through the hub and weave.

I think this method has all spokes that are under tension(whether from braking or pedaling) on the outside.

[ergott]

I think this method has all spokes that are under tension(whether from braking or pedaling) on the outside.

All the spokes are always tensioned regardless. If not there's something really wrong with the build.

[Flying Pigeon]

I am always curious to hear the reasons for one direction over the other (one wheel builder told me it's the same but 1 way is faster to lace).

And to clarify "outside pulling" is the 1st or 2nd here?:

[oldpotatoe]

I am always curious to hear the reasons for one direction over the other (one wheel builder told me it's the same but 1 way is faster to lace).

And to clarify "outside pulling" is the 1st or 2nd here?:

Correct. Spokes are either pulling or pushing. Then either head in or heads out(inside pulling, outside pulling). Pulling spokes radiate aft..in the grand scheme of things with bicycle wheel lacing, it makes no real difference.

[foo_fighter]

You are absolutely correct. I was thinking of the nominal tension as sort of the steady state bias condition and the dynamic loading as plus/minus relative to that.

So if you brake or accelerate, it increases the tension on the outside spokes relative to nominal.

Almost everyone says it doesn't matter but a few say there is a slight preference(Shimano, Zinn, Peter Verdone, DT).


All the spokes are always tensioned regardless. If not there's something really wrong with the build.

[foo_fighter]

That depends on whether the hub is accelerating or braking.
If these are both pictures of the drive side then your left picture has the cog pulling the inside spokes and the right picture has the cogs pulling the outside spokes.
But since the rotation is marked clockwise, it's the non disc side, so it's reversed. The left side has the brake pulling the outside spoke.

I am always curious to hear the reasons for one direction over the other (one wheel builder told me it's the same but 1 way is faster to lace).

And to clarify "outside pulling" is the 1st or 2nd here?: