Compact Crank Question

[Rpoole8537]

I have two road bikes with compact cranks. One is a 50/36, one is a 50/34. I really like the smooth transition between the 50/36. It just seems natural. However, when I shift from 50 to 34, I never seem to be in the right gear. I find the cadence is not natural. What is the key to making this a more natural shift? I now live in Western NC so the 34 is much appreciated, my knees are a bit moody at times from all the climbing. Thanks for your ideas.

[gone]

I refer to this as the "compact crank double shift" as you almost invariably have to shift the cassette twice when changing chain rings to be in the "right" place. The only thing I've found that helps (a bit) is to stay in the same ring somewhat longer than you otherwise would with a standard or 50/36 before shifting i.e., when changing from level ground to climbing stay in the big ring a little bit longer before shifting then shift the back once.

Life is full of tradeoffs and this is one of the tradeoffs in exchange for the easier gearing of the compact.

[AngryScientist]

swap out the outer ring for a 48t. i have 34/48 on one of my bikes and dont miss the top end at all.

[ahumblecycler]

I refer to this as the "compact crank double shift" as you almost invariably have to shift the cassette twice when changing chain rings to be in the "right" place.

Your label is spot on. This description is my exact experience and remedy. Timing is important as to not lose uphill momentum. It is one of the reasons I switch my inner to 36t and 38t rings with wider cassette range. I ride 11-23 with 50/34t combo

[makoti]

I have two road bikes with compact cranks. One is a 50/36, one is a 50/34. I really like the smooth transition between the 50/36. It just seems natural. However, when I shift from 50 to 34, I never seem to be in the right gear. I find the cadence is not natural. What is the key to making this a more natural shift? I now live in Western NC so the 34 is much appreciated, my knees are a bit moody at times from all the climbing. Thanks for your ideas.

Never had a 36. Went from a 39 to the 34. I don't notice what you're talking about, but it may be that I do it & don't even notice it. I double shift A LOT, so it may be happening. Seems very natural to me.

[ontarget]

I've been riding a 50/34 compact for about a year. I love it for climbing, but otherwise find the 16 tooth jump to be a bit much. As has been said, you almost always need to double shift. It's a compromise. I really prefer the gear spacing of a triple chainring setup, but it seems to be quite out of vogue these days.

[witcombusa]

swap out the outer ring for a 48t. i have 34/48 on one of my bikes and dont miss the top end at all.

This is exactly what I like for road use.

'Useful gearing' is a wonderful thing :banana:

[rccardr]

Go old skool: work out the gearing in gear inches using one of the online calculators, print it out in small type from smallest to largest with the gear combos, and tape it to your stem. You'll be amazed at the places where double shifting provides a smooth transition from one combo to the next. By the time the tape wears out, you'll know how to shift smoothly from one to the next.

I find if I have 30 inches on the bottom and 100 on the top, that pretty much covers everything I'll encounter on a local ride, even Skyline Drive.

[tjk23]

Before shifting to the 34 I typically shift down one gear on the back, 17>16 for example. If you do it quickly you don't lose momentum and the change isn't as drastic. I think the most important thing is proper planning and down shifting early before you get into the steep part of the climb.

[distanc3]

I understand how the OP is feeling when I ran shimano with compact crank. Even with the double shift in the cassette the transition for the crank is a little hard to adjust to. When I moved into campy that when I value the gear dump ability when transitioning between 50-34.

As others suggested a 48t would make it a little easier but how many speed and cassette are you using?

[OtayBW]

go old skool: Work out the gearing in gear inches using one of the online calculators, print it out in small type from smallest to largest with the gear combos, and tape it to your stem. You'll be amazed at the places where double shifting provides a smooth transition from one combo to the next. By the time the tape wears out, you'll know how to shift smoothly from one to the next.
+1
before shifting to the 34 i typically shift down one gear on the back, 17>16 for example. If you do it quickly you don't lose momentum and the change isn't as drastic. I think the most important thing is proper planning and down shifting early before you get into the steep part of the climb.
+1.5
Ride your equipment. One of my main rides is standard crank. Another is 50/34 used for different terrain. The bike/equipment chosen for each ride dictates my action.

[oldpotatoe]

Before shifting to the 34 I typically shift down one gear on the back, 17>16 for example. If you do it quickly you don't lose momentum and the change isn't as drastic. I think the most important thing is proper planning and down shifting early before you get into the steep part of the climb.

Holy smokes! You mean cycling finesse? Yup, and quickly is 'quickly' since I gots EPS...50/36, 12-25....

[Louis]

Not to be too much of a grump or a dick, but if we're unwilling to shift the rear when we shift the front, there's something seriously wrong.

It's all ratios:

If you aren't in a gear that works for, you then shift.
If you can't shift because you don't have that gear, then change your drivetrain.
Don't expect to be able to match the exact effort you want at an exact RPM. Be willing to pedal over a range of RPMs.

It isn't rocket science.

[Ralph]

That's why I never liked a compact also.

So still ride a standard crankset. Have a bunch of cassettes for different terrain. Simple to change.

And if that's not enough....just ride the bike with a triple. Personally....I think a triple has perfect alround gearing. Again using which ever cassete terrain calls for. Problem is.....most times you don't need it, wider Q, and the main reason.....it's outta style.

[Dead Man]

I had to do the "double shift" when I had standard cranks too.. I don't think this is confined to compacts

There's no hard n fast rule, as it depends entirely on what ratio/cadence you're at when you make the shift, but with compacts, if I'm in a solid cadence to begin with, I generally plan to tap up twice on the right when dropping to the small ring. I don't find it a big hindrance, but I'm used to it

[djg21]

I've been riding a 50/34 compact for about a year. I love it for climbing, but otherwise find the 16 tooth jump to be a bit much. As has been said, you almost always need to double shift. It's a compromise. I really prefer the gear spacing of a triple chainring setup, but it seems to be quite out of vogue these days.

I found myself making odd shifts to find a comfortable gear on my compact (50/34) crank. I just put on a set of mid-compact (52/36) rings. I find it easier to stay in one ring or another, and find myself shifting between chain rings far less frequently.

[jwalther]

How much shifting between chain rings is considered "typical." I know it's an individual thing, and dependent on terrain, but I might go a hundred or more miles without dropping to the 34 ring. For reference, my rides typically involve 600-700 feet of climbing/ten miles. I only shift down when I know I've got a big hill coming up.

[Rpoole8537]

I like the idea of moving to a 48t ring. I think 48 with an 11 on the cassette will work fine. I'm using the Simano FG 700, (I think that is the model). Is the best match for that made by Specialties TA? I'm using a DA 10 speed setup.

[thwart]

Go to Campy.

Obviously not part of their planning back when they developed their ergo shifting mechanism with the capability to dump multiple gears, but the ideal drivetrain choice if you're running a compact crank in a hilly area.

Approaching a hill (or cresting it and moving to bigger gears), one quick stroke with both hands and you're right where you want to be.

[witcombusa]

I like the idea of moving to a 48t ring. I think 48 with an 11 on the cassette will work fine. I'm using the Simano FG 700, (I think that is the model). Is the best match for that made by Specialties TA? I'm using a DA 10 speed setup.

Yes, TA makes some very good rings.

11t on the cassette, hell I rarely use a 13t with my 48 up front :eek:

[ontarget]

Yes, TA makes some very good rings.

11t on the cassette, hell I rarely use a 13t with my 48 up front :eek:
I run a 46/34 on one of my bikes, with a 12-28 casette. I rarely use the 12 with my 46 up front. Running the 46 has been great in that I spend more time in the large chainring for all but climbing.

[Dead Man]

Go to Campy.

Obviously not part of their planning back when they developed their ergo shifting mechanism with the capability to dump multiple gears, but the ideal drivetrain choice if you're running a compact crank in a hilly area.

Approaching a hill (or cresting it and moving to bigger gears), one quick stroke with both hands and you're right where you want to be.

How does the Campy system differ from Shimano? I've never used Campy

[Cicli]

How does the Campy system differ from Shimano? I've never used Campy

With Campagnolo you can shift three clicks with the left thumb to hit the small ring and three clicks with the right to move three cogs smaller on the rear. All at the same time, all in one motion. Its really nice. I like my Chorus way better than I ever liked the Ultegra or DurÁche I was on.

[witcombusa]

With Campagnolo you can shift three clicks with the left thumb to hit the small ring and three clicks with the right to move three cogs smaller on the rear. All at the same time, all in one motion. Its really nice. I like my Chorus way better than I ever liked the Ultegra or DurÁche I was on.


Hardly earth shattering news. You can do the same thing with any downtube or barend shifter ever made :rolleyes:

[Louis]

Hardly earth shattering news. You can do the same thing with any downtube or barend shifter ever made :rolleyes:

It's just a Campy guy looking for a reason to tout the brand.

[Cicli]

Hardly earth shattering news. You can do the same thing with any downtube or barend shifter ever made :rolleyes:

Yeah, I didnt say it was earth shattering. I simply answered his question. Some dont like to relive the "Good old days" everyday. :rolleyes:

[Dead Man]

I must be misunderstanding... Is campy control opposite of Shimano? I think I can do the same thing with sti- I click the paddle on the left and right and my front drops while my rear goes up a gear.. As referenced above, I'll typically do two on the right to get where I need to be.

some say not to hit front and rear as the same time, but if I ease up on the pedals for a half a second I always get a clean dual shift. With DA anyway, which is what the majority of my riding has been on

[Cicli]

You can do it with Shimano too. I didnt find multiple downshifts as easy with Shimano as with campy. Shimano you use the paddles, Campy uses the thumbs.

[choke]

I must be misunderstanding... Is campy control opposite of Shimano? I think I can do the same thing with sti- I click the paddle on the left and right and my front drops while my rear goes up a gear.. As referenced above, I'll typically do two on the right to get where I need to be.

some say not to hit front and rear as the same time, but if I ease up on the pedals for a half a second I always get a clean dual shift. With DA anyway, which is what the majority of my riding has been onWith Campy (Ultrashift) you can change multiple gears up or down with one push of the lever.

[Dead Man]

With Campy (Ultrashift) you can change multiple gears up or down with one push of the lever.

Ah.. well you can do three cogs down with Shimano, but only one up at a time. however, it's responsive - so a double-tap on the paddle will achieve two gears up very rapidly. As rapidly as going down, I think.

Topping out on hills, I can tap out 4-5 cogs in less than a second

[bigreen505]

While not the cool option, this is why I went back to a triple.

[oldpotatoe]

[QUOTE=Tihsepa;1747194]Yeah, I didnt say it was earth shattering. I simply answered his question. Some dont like to relive the "Good old days" everyday. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE

Left shifter all the way back, out of the saddle, right knee smacking the RH lever forward...for the sprint!!!

With really reliable lever mounting shifting, shifting front and back, and/or together, or whatever, just isn't an issue. Whether it be standard, compact, cresting a hill for that sprint for KOM club points......just shift the dern things...

OP-"However, when I shift from 50 to 34, I never seem to be in the right gear. I find the cadence is not natural. What is the key to making this a more natural shift?"..I guess I don't get the whole premiss of this post...but I use DT friction shifters or EPS...I guess

[parris]

Just curious but what are you running now for a cassette and what were you running before you went compact up front cassette and chain ring wise?

Is it the actual shifting performance that's feeling sketchy or the differences in gear ratios?

Like some of the other posters I've almost always done a double or triple shift depending on terrain and conditions. I find it easier to do these days with the gear we all have vs back when it was dt and friction.

[benb]

I always did a double shift with a standard 53/39 + 12-25.

I tend to do a triple shift with my current setup which is 50/34 + either 12-25 or 12-30 depending on which wheels I'm using.

So approaching a hill in the big ring, downshift 1 in the front, upshift 3 in the back.

Switching to the big ring it's up 1 in the front, down 3 in the back.

I basically always feel like the gearing is never quite right with the compact unless I'm on a big hill or carrying bags/towing. I definitely think I shift the big ring more than I do with a 53/39.

[JasonF]

swap out the outer ring for a 48t. i have 34/48 on one of my bikes and dont miss the top end at all.

Nick,

I'm thinking about going this route as well. Who did you go with for the 48t? Will the Campy chainring bolts work ok or do you need to use new ones? TIA.

[unterhausen]

back in my younger days when I actually had muscles, I bought a 54/44 crank. When I started riding again a decade ago, the 44 was really nice to cruise around in, and I almost never used the 54. Various factors have made me realize that I can go as fast as I really want to with a 44 big ring, but they are really scarce. The CX guys sometimes use a 46, so they are a lot easier to find. I haven't gotten this combo on a bike yet, but I'm pretty sure it will work better than the 50 big ring I have now, which isn't really that useful to me. I figured out I must ride a lot in the 50/17 combo, because that's the cassette cog that always gets worn out now. So maybe I'll start wearing out more cogs

Part of what got me thinking about this is that my gravel bike has a 42 big chainring, and on the rare occasions I have to spin make me feel good about myself