Fleche Wallone, Possible Spoiler.

[Argos]

Anyone else watching?

[ergott]

Anyone else watching?

Now I am :cool:

[ergott]

Did I miss anything good??

[Argos]

I think "it", whatever it may be, is about to happen, so no.

[Argos]

I thik they need to go hard on this straight stretch so that they can keep from being the "rabbit" to chase by being out of view, but either way, it's gonna be VERY tough with only 23 seconds right now.

[ergott]

Ffffrrrrriiiiiieeeeerrrreeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Argos]

The aforementioned "it" is on.

[ergott]

Well, if Valverde doesn't get a Tour win (any tour) he's got Wallonne. Nice feather for the cap!

[BarryG]

CSC continues to look impressively powerful this spring . . .

[sellsworth]

Well, if Valverde doesn't get a Tour win (any tour) he's got Wallonne. Nice feather for the cap!

I say that he is at least top five in the TdF and wins the mountain stage in the Pyrenees (the one that finishes in Spain). I'll be rooting for him. I thought that his win at Courchevel last year over Armstrong was one of the highlights of the year.

[Dr. Doofus]

remind anyone else of Jalabert?

willl probably have a similar career -- a few classics, the vuelta, but the Tour is out of reach...

fine, fine rider.

[sellsworth]

remind anyone else of Jalabert?

willl probably have a similar career -- a few classics, the vuelta, but the Tour is out of reach...

fine, fine rider.

The TdF is out of reach because he can't time trial well enough? Obviously he can climb and sprint well.

[Dr. Doofus]

The TdF is out of reach because he can't time trial well enough? Obviously he can climb and sprint well.

his TT is suspect right now -- as is his recovery. we haven't seen him do a full Tour, so we haven't seen how he'll hold up over three weeks. He hasn't won the Vuelta -- against third rate fields (the really big kids are at their best at the Tour, the big kids are at their best in the Giro, and the kids that didn't do well enough for the sponsor at either, or who are spanish, do the Vuelta), so if you look at all of the summit finishes over his career, and not just one day last year, you might conclude that his climbing is not that of a Tour winner *yet*, as well. His results in his Vueltas and his one Tour don't say Tour winner, at this juncture.

Just a hunch -- guys who can hang with Tom Boonen in sprints will be missing just a touch in a three-week stage race. He's the Spanish Jalabert (which is still one hell of a rider, no doubt).

[sellsworth]

his TT is suspect right now -- as is his recovery. we haven't seen him do a full Tour, so we haven't seen how he'll hold up over three weeks. He hasn't won the Vuelta -- against third rate fields (the really big kids are at their best at the Tour, the big kids are at their best in the Giro, and the kids that didn't do well enough for the sponsor at either, or who are spanish, do the Vuelta), so if you look at all of the summit finishes over his career, and not just one day last year, you might conclude that his climbing is not that of a Tour winner *yet*, as well. His results in his Vueltas and his one Tour don't say Tour winner, at this juncture.

Just a hunch -- guys who can hang with Tom Boonen in sprints will be missing just a touch in a three-week stage race. He's the Spanish Jalabert (which is still one hell of a rider, no doubt).

All of your points are excellent ones. I suppose before someone actually wins a TdF you can point to reasons why they won't ever win one. Indurain couldn't climb well enough, Pantani couldn't time trial well enough, Armstrong was just a talented one-day rider who couldn't climb, time trial, or last the three weeks.

I think that the Vuelta is on its way out as a Grand Tour. I think that there is more interest in the Tour of Germany, which could eventually replace the Vuelta as a Grand Tour.

[Dr. Doofus]

All of your points are excellent ones. I suppose before someone actually wins a TdF you can point to reasons why they won't ever win one. Indurain couldn't climb well enough, Pantani couldn't time trial well enough, Armstrong was just a talented one-day rider who couldn't climb, time trial, or last the three weeks.

I think that the Vuelta is on its way out as a Grand Tour. I think that there is more interest in the Tour of Germany, which could eventually replace the Vuelta as a Grand Tour.

Indurain was the best rider in 1990 . Take out the stage where he had to wait for Delgado -- under team orders - and he would have won the thing. his 1990 performance established him as the real favorite in 1991, if you looked at the stage-by-stage of 1990 carefully.... Doof remembers Hinault saying to watch out for Indurain in 1991, and everyone thought he was nuts....

[Climb01742]

i wonder if it's possible these days to win a tour -- any tour -- solely in the mountains? could a climber gain enuf in the mountains to offset TT time losses? or is TTing a necessary competency? could another pantani-esque rider pull off a win? just wondering.

[Dr. Doofus]

i wonder if it's possible these days to win a tour -- any tour -- solely in the mountains? could a climber gain enuf in the mountains to offset TT time losses? or is TTing a necessary competency? could another pantani-esque rider pull off a win? just wondering.

depends

on the parcours

on the other riders

on the weather

on the ?

[coylifut]

Simoni won the Giro

[chrisroph]

simoni tt's well when he won.

[Fixed]

bro climber, sprinter , t.t. er can you name one that does all 3 great ?
cheers

[chrisroph]

Merckx fixed. Lemond. Hinault. All pretty good all rounders.

[gone]

bro climber, sprinter , t.t. er can you name one that does all 3 great ?
cheers
Nope. If I was interested in winning a grand tour and could only choose 2 of 3 it'd be climber/t.t which has pretty much gotten it done in the last few decades. Either someone is great at the TT and can hold their own in the mountains (Indurain, Ulrich) or does both well (Armstrong). I can't think of anybody lately that won it by being either a great sprinter/climber or a great sprinter/t.t.

[bluesea]

Simoni won the Giro

Salvodelli practically won it on two descents.

[Climb01742]

cuengo (sp?) isn't/wasn't very good TTer when he won. i just watched the DVD. he climbed (better than simoni) and he actually had a pretty good sprint. but giro ain't the tour. in some ways, the giro is more fun, more open. but there were no great TTer's in the giro who could also climb.

[Fixed]

bro I was thinking lemond but eddy and the badger were great too thanks
cheers

[coylifut]

Salvodelli practically won it on two descents.

that was great TV. Both times.

[coylifut]

cuengo (sp?) isn't/wasn't very good TTer when he won. i just watched the DVD. he climbed (better than simoni) and he actually had a pretty good sprint. but giro ain't the tour. in some ways, the giro is more fun, more open. but there were no great TTer's in the giro who could also climb.

but your questions was "i wonder if it's possible these days to win a tour -- any tour -- solely in the mountains?" Did you mean the TDF? I thought you meant any one of the 3 Grand Tours.

The Giro is cool and always has some wild epic climb like the gravel one last year. That was fun to watch.

[Climb01742]

but your questions was "i wonder if it's possible these days to win a tour -- any tour -- solely in the mountains?" Did you mean the TDF? I thought you meant any one of the 3 Grand Tours.

The Giro is cool and always has some wild epic climb like the gravel one last year. That was fun to watch.

terry, you're right. my question was "any" tour. i was then just musing on the difference between the giro and tour. usually, the giro is a better, more competitive race (meaning more exciting), while the tour seems "harder" (meaning more good riders). i'm hoping this year's tour is both hard and competitive. BTW, i'd love to see the stage again from last year's giro that had the gravel climb. that had_everything_bike racing can and should have.