Columbus MAX Frame on Ebay Questions - Why Isn't Anyone Buying It?

[CDollarsign]

I have been eyeing this frame for a while. I really want a MAX or MXL, and it seems like one popping up in my size is uncommon.

Does anyone see anything wrong with this? Price too high?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-BOTTECCHIA-frame-fork-Columbus-MAX-tubing-/171763388905?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27fde551e9

[brando]

Price isn't a bargain but that looks like a real nice frame. I'd make an offer. $600 shipped? See what happens.

[krhea]

I have been eyeing this frame for a while. I really want a MAX or MXL, and it seems like one popping up in my size is uncommon.

Does anyone see anything wrong with this? Price too high?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-BOTTECCHIA-frame-fork-Columbus-MAX-tubing-/171763388905?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27fde551e9

Ahhhh, maybe because it's a 62cm/58cm, not a "common" size that's for sure.

[CDollarsign]

Yeah, I'd have to ride a pretty long stem to make it work...

[donevwil]

Yeah, I'd have to ride a pretty long stem to make it work...

Recommendation one is to only buy a frame you know will fit well.

Curious how long a TT you need ? Standard production Merckx geo stopped at a 59.3 TT at the longest and all production MAX frames are TT length limited to ~<60cm due to raw tube lengths.

Been a dream of mine as well, but no chance at a 62TT on a Merckx. I had a local builder build me one, took a lot of custom finagling.

[CDollarsign]

I need a 59 - 60 TT

[jmoore]

Make me an offer on my 60x58.5 MX Leader? 62x58 is odd sizing for sure.

[alexstar]

Gorgeous bike, if that was a 56 TT, it would have sold very quickly. I've always had a soft spot for Bottecchia.

[wallymann]

Ahhhh, maybe because it's a 62cm/58cm, not a "common" size that's for sure.

quite common in the netherlands. gazelle make 62x58 in their thousands.

fwiw...here's the frame from the auction in question:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/1tMAAOSwEeFU5LiT/$_12.JPG

[brando]

Ahhhh, maybe because it's a 62cm/58cm, not a "common" size that's for sure.

would fit me great. I've got a touch too much post showing on my vintage somec with 60cm seat tube.

[slowgoing]

Do you just want any bike with mxl or max tubing?

I would only want a Merckx because that's the one that has had all of the great reviews. Maybe other brands with mxl or max tubing won't ride as well because of geometry differences, etc. That's what I'd be worried about.

[Steelman]

Another factor, eBay is really quiet right now.

[distanc3]

I've been eyeing but I've never seen MXL with ~52 tt

Lucky and unlucky I guess.

[brando]

Another factor, eBay is really quiet right now.

Interesting, I sold a ton of stuff on eBay a couple months ago with just a few straggling items that have sat the past month. I've taken a break from it lately because I don't enjoy the process anyway. What else have you noticed?

[ultraman6970]

The real deal... price is tad high IMO but you have to think in the fees too and you end up with a 550 bucks frame, that isnt far from what that would cost.

Offer him 400 bucks and see what happens, looks like a nice frame.

[eBAUMANN]

nothing wrong with it, its just TALL. and 58 isn't really THAT short, throw a 120-130mm stem on there and you are good to go!

but yea, price could come down a bit, it has been sitting up there for awhile...

[blasdelf]

Yeah, I'd have to ride a pretty long stem to make it work...

you're SUPPOSED to be riding a long stem on this geometry

a ±130mm stem with traditional deep handlebars is what it was designed for

[Aaron O]

If it were a more desirable brand it would be long gone at more money. It's the size and that it's a Bottechia.

[likebikes]

If it were a more desirable brand it would be long gone at more money. It's the size and that it's a Bottechia.
^this. best, and most concise post in the entire thread.

[CDollarsign]

I have no experience with Bottechia, whats the deal? I kind of figured they were a classic Italian builder.

I ride a 59TT Corsa Extra with a 130 stem, I assume I can make this work with a 140...

[christian]

If it were a more desirable brand it would be long gone at more money. It's the size and that it's a Bottechia.

yup

[ultraman6970]

The issue to me is that the brand was/is linked with cheap ass bikes the last 10 years being sold over the internet here in the US, sure some people dont even know the brand from back in the day either and then you get the wrong impression that the brand is cheap. There is a somec promax also, no buyers maybe because of the size??

The other thing to me is that there is this weird myth that max tubing is too stiff and heavy, in big sizes it shouldnt be that stiff and for 50 or 150 extra grams i doubt will be a big impact in the ride IMHO. Ive had 2 max tubing bikes and they rock... wish I could nail a somec promax.

The length of the stem will depends a lot of the angles of the bike, big chance that frame is 75 or 74 degrees... that will affect the reach and then the stem size, italian built bike... maybe 13 to 14 stem will do just fine for any giant willing to use it; one thing for sure the frame looks really nice and in those colors is kind'a easy to refinish.

[Steelman]

Interesting, I sold a ton of stuff on eBay a couple months ago with just a few straggling items that have sat the past month. I've taken a break from it lately because I don't enjoy the process anyway. What else have you noticed?

I sell left-over stock, from a small business on there. Noticed reduced view and watch counts. Read the threads on their forum, others are experiencing the same thing:

http://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/bd-p/selling-db

Feel the same way, the site is not fun anymore for small sellers. Anything cycling-related comes here for sale.

[Steelman]

If it were a more desirable brand it would be long gone at more money. It's the size and that it's a Bottechia.

Might not be so desirable, but in my experience, some of the lesser-known Italian brands are a better value, and have a "stealth" factor.

From personal ownership, prefer Basso and Rossin bikes to Colnago, DeRosa, Cinelli, and Tommasini.

[unterhausen]

wonder who built the frame in the OP. Bottecchia built some decent bikes before the '70s bike boom, but in the '70s they were horrible, even the high end ones I saw were pretty bad.

[Aaron O]

Might not be so desirable, but in my experience, some of the lesser-known Italian brands are a better value, and have a "stealth" factor.

From personal ownership, prefer Basso and Rossin bikes to Colnago, DeRosa, Cinelli, and Tommasini.

I think you're confusing lesser known and lesser reputation. Bottechia is in the later category. There are many lesser known Italian bikes that are very desireable and others that are great value because they're less known.

Bottechia was a large italian brand that made a full line of bikes...like Atala. Most of their nicer stuff was subcontracted as I understand it, and the bikes labeled Bottechia in competition often wee rebadged bikes by guys like Marnati. The low perception of the brand predates the Internet.

I've never had a Basso or Rossin...can't offer an opinion. I wouldn't call either less well known...they were less expensive than De Rosa. Less well known are the guys like Marnati and Picchio.

[jr59]

For the money, I would buy moor's Merckx.

[paredown]

There was a second off-brand MAX frame that I really liked the look of that just ended--a Diamant (Belgian) (http://www.ebay.com/itm/nos-stunning-Columbus-MAX-DIAMANT-frameset-58cm-ct-/311338832128?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=Zq30xTiWRiUhFLd0IucmTj6HTME%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc)--NOS if you can believe it.

There is not much information as to who built their high-end frames (they are a marketing group like Concorde, although I believe they built some frames), although this post suggested (http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/728130-where-belgian-frames.html) the high-end ones were built by Martens. This article (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.klassiekeracefiets.info/2013/01/04/martelly/&prev=search) mentions that Martens/Martelly did build for a number of others, but does not mention Diamant.

Anyways a nice looking and well finished frame for $599--wished I had the scratch--it would have been mine:

[jmoore]

For the money, I would buy moor's Merckx.
this! :)

[ultraman6970]

Those diamant are good stuff and the max ones are even harder to get... price is affecting that frame IMO, size wise was my size I would have sent an offer to the dude right away... bad luck.

[kevinvc]

Might not be so desirable, but in my experience, some of the lesser-known Italian brands are a better value, and have a "stealth" factor.

From personal ownership, prefer Basso and Rossin bikes to Colnago, DeRosa, Cinelli, and Tommasini.

Speaking of Rossin bikes, here's an old one (http://sellwoodcycle.com/collections/used-bikes/products/62-cm-rossin) that seems to have retained its value pretty well.

[ultraman6970]

Thats basically the only rossin that is like valuable.

[msl819]

So what exactly is the difference in a Max and MXL tubeset?

[StephenCL]

Okay, here goes,

MXL was a proprietary tubeset built just for Eddy Merxck. It basically had a modified top tube, and SLX seat stays. There has been a bunch of back and forth over the years as to the top tube...was it el/os or something else....not sure it really matters, as it was drawn just for EM and only fits his lugs...

MAX was the generic Nivacrom tubeset from Columbus. Bi-axial swagged top and down tube, outrageously huge chain stays similar to Current Life and squarish seat stays.

Eddy Merckx used the full. Max tubeset for at least a year or two before switching to his own tubeset for the famed MXL bikes...

The interesting part is that EM adopted some of the bits over time.... In fact my favorite EM MXL has the proprietary top tube, but the actual MAX seat tubes... Not only did it look the best, but provided the stiffness in the rear triangle.

I have looked for one of these rare birds for a very long time....

Hope this helps...

Stephen

[msl819]

Yup... Thanks

[bismo37]

I was eyeing this nice Somec ProMAX but I don't need a 3rd MAX bike.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-SOMEC-PROMAX-STEEL-FRAME-FORK-COLUMBUS-MAX-RESTORED-ITALY-VERY-RARE-56-/301569246486?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4636ed8516

[jr59]

Okay, here goes,

MXL was a proprietary tubeset built just for Eddy Merxck. It basically had a modified top tube, and SLX seat stays. There has been a bunch of back and forth over the years as to the top tube...was it el/os or something else....not sure it really matters, as it was drawn just for EM and only fits his lugs...

MAX was the generic Nivacrom tubeset from Columbus. Bi-axial swagged top and down tube, outrageously huge chain stays similar to Current Life and squarish seat stays.

Eddy Merckx used the full. Max tubeset for at least a year or two before switching to his own tubeset for the famed MXL bikes...

The interesting part is that EM adopted some of the bits over time.... In fact my favorite EM MXL has the proprietary top tube, but the actual MAX seat tubes... Not only did it look the best, but provided the stiffness in the rear triangle.

I have looked for one of these rare birds for a very long time....

Hope this helps...

Stephen

Thanks.


Just a quick question, how does a max frame ride, compared to ELOS?

I understand the difference between the tubes, as the max tubes are heavier. Just trying to get an idea. I also understand it's personal as far as ride goes.

[oldpotatoe]

Thanks.


Just a quick question, how does a max frame ride, compared to ELOS?

I understand the difference between the tubes, as the max tubes are heavier. Just trying to get an idea. I also understand it's personal as far as ride goes.

Yes it is. Had a DeRosa Primato(and Giro-Neuron tubes)...and MXL. The MXL leader is a combo of 'stiff', but comfy(huh?)..The DeRosa's were just comfy.

I think the MXLeader just rode all around better than either of the DeRosas, even tho it is heavier.

[brando]

Yes it is. Had a DeRosa Primato(and Giro-Neuron tubes)...and MXL. The MXL leader is a combo of 'stiff', but comfy(huh?)..The DeRosa's were just comfy.

I think the MXLeader just rode all around better than either of the DeRosas, even tho it is heavier.

^Great description. Is the ride comfort from the slack seat tube making the chain stays longer? Took me a minute to get used to the mxl geometry but I did and the ride is addicting.

[donevwil]

Yes it is. Had a DeRosa Primato(and Giro-Neuron tubes)...and MXL. The MXL leader is a combo of 'stiff', but comfy(huh?)..The DeRosa's were just comfy.

I think the MXLeader just rode all around better than either of the DeRosas, even tho it is heavier.

Any chance you can compare the rides of an MXL and true MAX frameset ? Hard to believe swapping/flipping the top tube makes a big difference, but that seems to be the trend with current MAX builds.

[FlashUNC]

I've got a mostly MAX frame, and it is definitely stiff. Not light, but stiff and rides really nicely.

If I were a weight weenie I might blanch at the frame/fork weights, but I'm not.

[ultraman6970]

Are stiffer than normal SL tubes for example... but you can ride long time in a max frame, arent that terrible as many people may think. But as with every frame you have to have the frame fit RIGHT.