Way OT : Artificial turf

[Dave Ferris]

So due to the Ca. drought, we are highly considering replacing our 850 square ft. backyard. We've been considering it for several years , but now seems like a good time to go with it.

Between the tree roots from two mature trees (we're removing one of them ) , dog urine from 2 dogs , and extreme shade - I'm spending a small fortune trying to keep some semblance of grass growing back there. I'm fighting a losing battle.

We've gotten 4 estimates ranging in price from $6 to $9.65 a square foot , everything installed. The LA DWP is offering up to a $2 square foot rebate on the tearing out the grass and going the synthetic turf route. They make you jump through a lotta hoops but for the savings, I'll jump.

As far as my research can tell , there are 3 major manufactures (all USA ) of artificial turf.

Easy Turf - which came in at the highest price of $9.65 a square foot.
http://www.easyturf.com/

Tiger Turf - which we found someone to do for $6 .
http://tigerturf.com/us/

Tiger Express - which appears to be an off-shoot of Tiger Turf , or perhaps vice-versa. This fell in the middle range from one company at $ 7-7.50 a square foot.
http://www.tigerexpresslandscape.com/

And Synlawn - which was recommended by a commercial landscape friend of mine. We haven't gotten a bid on it yet. My job is too small for my friend.
http://www.synlawn.com/

I tried doing a search on user comparisons but came up empty . Probably because it's the kind of thing of once you spend 5-10K on having it installed, it's not like you are going to tear it out after a few years and say ...let me try that other one.

Curious as to whether anyone as had any experience with any of these products , both the good and the bad.

My wife likes the fact the "dog whisperer " guy endorses Easy Turf. :) Smart marketing on their part. But it's $3200 more then the Tiger Turf. Heck I could get some custom Enves for my Potts 29er and have dough left over for that.

We have no kids, just two smaller, 28-34 lb. , Border Collie mix pound rescues. They are mainly inside type of dogs , so it's not like the area will receive super heavy traffic.

Thanks.

[Chris]

I can help with your decision other than to observe how far ahead of their time the Brady Bunch really were.

[rwsaunders]

Call your local Field Turf or other reps (see links) and see if they have some extra material leftover from a field replacement project. Synthetic turf surfaces also become very hot in the sun, so do a little more research before you commit.

The original Astroturf and others were impervious, so when it does rain, water will have to runoff or it will pond. Newer systems are pervious, allowing water to drain though the surface and into a subsurface...you want this.


http://www.fieldturf.com/en/sports/parks-and-recreation

http://stc.officialbuyersguide.net

[Ken Robb]

I think I would rather have some sort of hard surface with drought-tolerant plants mixed in than fake grass. I don't know how the costs compare but in SoCal we can often get some nice concrete /stone/brickwork done for less $$$ than in other areas.

[SoCalSteve]

I think I would rather have some sort of hard surface with drought-tolerant plants mixed in than fake grass. I don't know how the costs compare but in SoCal we can often get some nice concrete /stone/brickwork done for less $$$ than in other areas.

I was in on the ground floor of the LADWP rebates. I got a $1.50 a sq ft up to $3,000.00. Since I have a corner lot, I maxed out the $3k.

I did drought tolerant landscaping. Succulents, cactus and ground cover. I did micro sprayers and drip systems throughout. It was a HUGE project, but very rewarding every time I go outside and see how beautiful it all looks now 2 years later, especially when everything is in bloom.

Upsides: beautiful to look at, get many compliments from people walking by, water bill went from well over $100.00 a month down to less than $25.00 and lastly, helping with our drought.

Downsides: not cheap, I still spent over $5,000.00 out of pocket ( $8,000 total), was a lot of work ( I did the irrigation part all by myself - over 50 man hours) and it still requires maintenance.

Just a few thoughts on another way to approach it. Good luck with whatever you choose!

Steve

[tiretrax]

Next week is Earth Day. See if there are any celebrations in the area (or garden shows) - the turf people like to have booths at the local celebration and show of their wares.

[likebikes]

I'd go with xeriscaping before i put in turf or something.

fake grass just looks tacky to me. just imo.

[mg2ride]

How do you deal with the pet urine with fake grass?

I assume it passes to the soil but for some reason it grosses me out.

[Louis]

I'd go with xeriscaping before i put in turf or something.

+1

I'd look into a more natural looking area scattered with low/no maintenance stuff. I'd think that's becoming increasingly popular out your way.

Plus you don't have to do it all at once. After the grass is gone and your "base" is down you can slowly add to it as you see fit. (or hire someone to do it all in one go)

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTQLEiYlst-GZ_LE1INiiKw2y_aycBX82pgWRQTv-8FrV5g-ESE

[MadRocketSci]

zen rock garden!

[Birddog]

Redneck lawn. Just let what you have die, mow it nice and even, then spray it with green paint.

[ORMojo]

My (now) 83-year-old mom put in a small patch of synthetic turf about 12 years ago. About 400-500 sq. ft., in her front yard completely replacing the natural grass that just couldn't survive in the shadow of the gigantic (~80-year-old) redwood. Mom is a certified master gardener, and putting in synthetic was a difficult choice for her to make, but to this day she is very happy that she did, and it still looks very good. The only maintenance is light vacuuming a couple of times a year.

She used this company (http://www.cascadegreens.com/), which won't help you in CA, but I note that they currently use "Dream Turf synthetic grass products" and I'm pretty sure my memory is correct in recalling that is the brand used in my mom's installation. I don't know for certain if Dream Turf is one of the companies you've already identified, but a quick look tells me it isn't. Dream Turf is based in Seattle and up front says "Serving Seattle and the Pacific Northwest," but I'm pretty sure they have a SoCal dealer. Either way, there is my experience and recommendation.

Also, for a better idea of what possibilities you have in your specific region for creating a Xeriscaped (or, more appropriately, drought-tolerant) yard that isn't just cactus, view the examples at this site (http://www.nativeplantgardentour.org/about/). There is a gallery of examples - clicking on each thumbnail not only reveals additional photos, but plant lists as well.

[Idris Icabod]

We put it in a few years ago to replace xeroscaping around our pool, about 900 square ft to make the yard more usable now our kids are old enough to need to run around (got it when they were 1 & 3). Don't remember the brand but it was at the lower end of your quotes and has held up well to the AZ heat. It is fairly low maintainance but we don't have a dog, neighbor has a Mesquite overgrown tree that drops annoying tiny twigs for a couple if months per year that the easiest way to pick up is with a shop vac, blowing it doesn't work. In the summer it does get red hot though but then again everything here does!
I'm moving house to a new construction in a week and plan to get synthetic grass, I'm really happy with it. I've had neighborhood people ask how I keep my grass so green so it must look somewhat realistic at least from the distance of the front street through a gate.

[Dave Ferris]

Thanks everyone for the replies and thoughts.

We'd really like to have an open space , mainly for the dogs to romp and do their thing as opposed to broken up hardscape interspersed with mulch or drought resistant plants in the yard. Yes dogs rule at our place ...:) My wife wants to go with the stuff Caesar , the dog whisperer guy, uses. He's her idol..lol. He uses the Easy Turf at his facility in Santa Clarita.

Regarding drainage -- if you go on each site, they detail how their product "drains the best in the industry". However we were pouring some water on the "Tiger turf" samples that were left, and on an 8" swatch , there are only 2 holes every 5.25 " apart for drainage. Not certain that would be optimum for draining. The tiger turf also has a pet neutralizer they use with the infill to eliminate odors. At least that's their claim.

I don't have an "easy turf" sample (yet ) , but from their website their turf has "100% permeable backing " so they don't have to use the extra chemicals on their infill. At least that's what I gather.

Regarding the *artificial* look - I've seen some referral jobs, both big and small of the Tiger Turf / $6 a square foot guy. It looks pretty amazing , even up close. No cheese factor whatsoever in my opinion. It's come a LONG way from the astro-turf vibe of years ago.

Still, it's a boatload of dough. Man I could get a new Kish or Eriksen 650B with XT for the price of 850 square feet of the Easy Turf. :hello::cool:

Maybe when we pull the one diseased Tipu tree we'll have a better idea of other options. We could possibly go with half the yard being synthetic turf , or drought resistant real sod , and the other half with some mulch and drought resistant plants.

Yeah again, the stuff's really expensive , so we're taking our time on it.

[false_Aest]

two words: Beach Sand.

another option: Kitty Litter.


Also Steve's front yard looks great.

[oldpotatoe]

Assuming this drought won't last forever(Huh?)..have you considered that if it does end, you 'may' want something growing back there and need to spend the $, again?

I donno, maybe a low/no water backyard that is still compatible with dogs, but not the artificial turf gig?

I bought a house with no grass. Plants but very low water requirement.

In the late 80s, SoCal had a drought, the people in Santa Barbara painted their brown laws green..

[Fatty]

But steep water bills.

Pine mulch, needles make a great grass free surface.
The row of rocks got pulled out a foot or so just after I took this picture last week. That a foot less lawn to mow and water.

[ORMojo]

DIY? Costco often has promotions, looks like none of their 7 options are currently on sale, they range from ~$2.33 to ~$3.66 per sq ft for just the turf. The user reviews appear consistently high, and I've found Costco user reviews to be pretty reliable - perhaps because people always know that they can return the items, and Costco doesn't weed out bad reviews.

Note that there is an email address for requesting free swatches.

[Ken Robb]

If one assumes that the days of limitless water in SoCal are likely over we can assume that lush green lawns will soon go out of style for new homes and increasingly be viewed as wasteful and socially irresponsible. If this is so is it wise now to make a counterfeit version emulating what will soon be viewed as undesirable? Who wants to be remembered like the last guy who built a knotty pine rumpus room? :)

[dgauthier]

I would suggest you carefully research the expected lifetimes of the products you are considering. A manufacturer may claim a lifetime of 25 years but only offer a warranty of 8 years. You can expect the true lifetime will only be a few years longer than the warranty. A quick search for "expected lifetime artificial turf" will yield high school and university feasibility studies for replacing athletic fields with synthetic turf. They indicate the products last 10 to 15 years.

I doubt DWP will be offering rebates 10 years from now to offset the cost you will incur installing synthetic lawn No. 2. If I were to do the same thing to my house, I would go for drought tolerant plants.

[eddief]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8h0189MLBQ

You know you can trust Brian Williams:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSj-QJkDQWw

[1centaur]

If one assumes that the days of limitless water in SoCal are likely over we can assume that lush green lawns will soon go out of style for new homes and increasingly be viewed as wasteful and socially irresponsible. If this is so is it wise now to make a counterfeit version emulating what will soon be viewed as undesirable? Who wants to be remembered like the last guy who built a knotty pine rumpus room? :)

It's not like there are two categories in life: wasteful and not wasteful.

Lawns are highly desirable, which is why hundreds of millions have chosen them for many decades. They are beautiful and are great play surfaces for dogs and children. They are so desirable, in fact, that I bet millions of Californians would choose to allocate water resources to their upkeep rather than to growing alfalfa for China (etc.) if they were allowed such a choice by their politicians. Xeriscapes by contrast are hideous (IMO) and not well suited to running dogs and children.

Much of modern society is wasteful, if the comparison is frugal. The odd hypocrisy of picking on just one aspect of such waste to get self righteous about is far too common. What about non-native bushes, shrubs and trees, why do they not get equivalent hatred? Not to mention slip 'n slides and pools and clean cars.

Lawns are not outlandishly wasteful, they are just not free of trade-offs. There are far better things to get high and mighty about. If they become expensive to maintain, they will be a luxury of the rich, and artificial turf will be like simulated Ferraris more than knotty pine rumpus rooms.

[Ken Robb]

I was referring to SoCal. Guys who live where you do have no problem with water (or snow) shortages so lawns are wonderful. I'm not sure how my post seemed "high and mighty".

[Louis]

Much of modern society is wasteful, if the comparison is frugal. The odd hypocrisy of picking on just one aspect of such waste to get self righteous about is far too common.

I absolutely agree that our society is massively wasteful, but after all, the OP was asking about lawns, so we've focused on that, not how much water is used when folks let it run while brushing their teeth.

Had the thread been about how much food is wasted because consumers insist on perfect apples and bananas, we would have discussed that.

[Louis]

Dave, when I saw this I immediately thought of you:

http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20150420-why-small-is-the-new-big-thing

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/wwfeatures/976_549/images/live/p0/2p/52/p02p5231.jpg

[Dave Ferris]

:)

Man, the more I think about it…it's too much dough. I can get my first high end road bike -- an Eriksen or Moots -- for the cost of some fake grass.

Maybe I'll buy a bunch of those bags with that grass you use for Easter baskets and just spread it out in the backyard. :eek: :)