Steel frame (CXII) Rust Prevention/Inhibition

[Chris Woods]

I have a 3 year old CXII - what should I do to prevent internal rust?

I heard about some procedure where you pour a special liquid into the frame and let dry?

Thanks.

Chris

[dave thompson]

I have a 3 year old CXII - what should I do to prevent internal rust?

I heard about some procedure where you pour a special liquid into the frame and let dry?

Thanks.

Chris
Use Weigle's FrameSaver. Follow the directions and do it outdoors or in the garage. If it gets on your carpets, it is there permanently and it stinks! Very good stuff.

[Rapid Tourist]

I'd just like to reiterate that this stuff is a mess. Wear gloves and be sure to do it outside plus on top of a thick coat of newspapers. Also be careful when squirting it in tubes so it doesn't backsplash onto you. I did a fair amount of that :rolleyes:

[shaq-d]

for the record i don't think framesaver is really necessary, and wd-40 works fine. but i understand the need to apply it :p

edit:
if u go in winter/water conditions all the time, u need tl wd-40 out the insides of the tubes every now and then, regardless of the fact u wiggled ur wiegle.. :D

sd

[e-RICHIE]

use the framesaver.
it's better.

[Smiley]

use the framesaver.
it's better.
is that a relative statement , if so how much better or are we talking superior . Interested as I too want to do this but know that the JP stuff is really messy to work with , thanks Sir Richie for your wisdom and insight

[Too Tall]

WD 40 is not a lube. It will not protect your frame from internal rust.

[e-RICHIE]

is that a relative statement , if so how much better or are we talking superior . Interested as I too want to do this but know that the JP stuff is really messy to work with , thanks Sir Richie for your wisdom and insight

you do it once and you move on.
how messy can it be? i do 1-2 a
week and never get any on me,
nor on the furniture. are we using
in for the same application?

[H.Frank Beshear]

Smiley, I've done 4-5 applications on different frames. You need to be careful but its not hard to do. Make sure that you clean up any over spray before it sets but even if it does it just takes a bit more effort to clean. Read the directions on the can and take your time. It's a fairly simple procedure,and more than one frame builder recommends its use. Frank

[scrooge]

Someone suggested Linseed oil to me. Any thoughts?
Also, do I have to strip down my frame to use Framesaver?

[531Aussie]

the big problem is water getting inside frames, so I no longer use my steel bikes in wet weather. It's amazing how much water will sit in the bottom bracket after getting a lot of road spray. So, despite Framesaver, I still don't like having my sexy Superprodigy getting wet :) -- that what aluminium is for! :)

[e-RICHIE]

there's no reason to worry about water atmo - (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bobbesrs/detail?.dir=ea4f&.dnm=ad5c.jpg&.src=ph)



the big problem is water getting inside frames, so I no longer use my steel bikes in wet weather. It's amazing how much water will sit in the bottom bracket after getting a lot of road spray. So, despite Framesaver, I still don't like having my sexy Superprodigy getting wet :) -- that what aluminium is for! :)

[L84dinr]

Someone suggested Linseed oil to me. Any thoughts?
Also, do I have to strip down my frame to use Framesaver?


I am going to bare my a** here. I put linseed oil in my surly cross check. The stuff got on the outside of the frame, (ie the painted surface), and when it dried, the oil marred the paint. So be sure to cover all the openings when using Linseed oil. And if some does get on the painted surfaces, be sure to clean it thoroughly. Was a big Doh! moment for me. I had no idea the stuff would dry and stick to the paint they way it did.
Oh well, another lesson in the school of hard knocks.

[stevep]

funny story from the old fat city about frame corrosion.
a customer sends his frame in for a repaint, on friday afternoon the shop guy dumps it in the paint remover tank.
forgets about it. goes home.
mon goes by, tues goes by... the customer calls to ask about his frame....
ding! the guy remembers. goes out to the tank, at the bottom of the tank he fishes out 2 rear dropouts...the rest went up in smoke ( so to speak ).

question for e-richie...how many cans of weigle stuff will you need to restore the frame to like new condition?

[stevep]

ps
i may be wrong but i think the weigle stuff reminds me a lot of the pine tar that we used to apply to wooden cross ctry skis...
a lot like it atmo.

[e-RICHIE]

ps
i may be wrong but i think the weigle stuff reminds me a lot of the pine tar that we used to apply to wooden cross ctry skis...
a lot like it atmo.


man you must remember eisenhower too atmo.

[e-RICHIE]

question for e-richie...how many cans of weigle stuff will you need to restore the frame to like new condition?

you get paid for this?
you can't unring the friggin' bell atmo. if you apply it after
the fact, the benefits start at that point in time. you can't
undo what's been done. do you feel me poochmeister?

[BumpyintheBurgh]

Someone suggested Linseed oil to me. Any thoughts?
Also, do I have to strip down my frame to use Framesaver?

As Neil Young once said "Rust Never Sleeps".
Nothing against Framesaver but I think that boiled linseed oil works just as well at protecting the frame. It's cheaper than Framesaver, you can get a quart of it, which is enough to do several bikes, at Home Depot or your local hardware store. If you go with linseed be sure to get boiled not raw linseed. Raw linseed dries very slowly compared to boiled.

[e-RICHIE]

As Neil Young once said "Rust Never Sleeps".
Nothing against Framesaver but I think that boiled linseed oil works just as well at protecting the frame. It's cheaper than Framesaver, you can get a quart of it, which is enough to do several bikes, at Home Depot or your local hardware store. If you go with linseed be sure to get boiled not raw linseed. Raw linseed dries very slowly compared to boiled.


an aerosol can is 12-15 dollars and does 2-4
frames. what is the price of convenience? and
the spray surely must be a better route than
the turkey baster, no?

[David Kirk]

Framesaver rocks.

Dave

[IXXI]

Use the Framesaver. Its not rokkit science-- yes, it smells (but that tells you its working! -ding!-) and you should do it outside or somewhere you don't mind a few drips of smelly liquid dropping, but its fall-off-a-log easy to do. You spray it in, plug the tubes with wads of paper towel, rotate the frame, and let it sit overnite. The next day or so, do another light application the same way.

Keep it away from your clothes and shoes as you're working with the frame. And if a little gets out, you can wipe it off while its still wet.

This is a 1/4-banana job.

[sspielman]

I agree....Framesaver is a great product...and does rock...even though steel frames didn't rust before the popularisation of other materials....

[e-RICHIE]

I agree....Framesaver is a great product...and does rock...even though steel frames didn't rust before the popularisation of other materials....

that's irrelevent.
peter's a good guy.
it's a cool idea and he should
prosper. i say buy more than
need and give it away as gifts.

[sspielman]

that's irrelevent.
peter's a good guy.
it's a cool idea and he should
prosper. i say buy more than
need and give it away as gifts.


Actually, I can think of thousands of uses for Framesaver...Home...Auto...Farm...Industry (that which has not left for China, anyway)...."Framesaver.....It's not just for frames anymore!"

[cpg]

that's irrelevent.
peter's a good guy.
it's a cool idea and he should
prosper. i say buy more than
need and give it away as gifts.

Big reach around, provo circle jerkin' agreed. Here's a prime opportunity to use a SUPERIOR product for only pennies more AND support a great guy. Where's the problem with that? Linseed oil does work but it won't go into all the nooks and crannies like Framesaver. So why bother with that? WD40 works for a while but not very long. It's a solvent and that's not what's needed for this application. Rust is not a really big problem but if you want to deal with it why not do it the right way. I can't believe anybody would whine about the cost of this product. You paid more for handlebar tape that will look skanky in 6 months.

Curt

[Chad Engle]

How often should you apply the Framesaver?

[e-RICHIE]

Actually, I can think of thousands of uses for Framesaver...Home...Auto...Farm...Industry (that which has not left for China, anyway)...."Framesaver.....It's not just for frames anymore!"

there ya' go -
let 'em hear ya' in the cheap seats atmo...

[BumpyintheBurgh]

an aerosol can is 12-15 dollars and does 2-4
frames. what is the price of convenience? and
the spray surely must be a better route than
the turkey baster, no?

Flax Farmers of America are united in their support of boiled linseed oil (linseed oil is derived from the dried ripe seeds of the flax plant) as the best rust preventive for bike frames.

[Chris Woods]

ps
i may be wrong but i think the weigle stuff reminds me a lot of the pine tar that we used to apply to wooden cross ctry skis...
a lot like it atmo.

So the Weigle stuff is not something to dry out your frame, but a coating (like the "rustproofing" add-on the dealer used to sell you when you bought a new car).

Is that really necessary? I mean is there a real risk of a rust problem such that it makes a difference to use it Weigle? I have ridden in the rain, but not that often. Do you need to take the bottom bracket off/out? Where does the rust problem occur most (at the bottom bracket where the water drains to)? Does the weep hole in the bottom bracket work as designed?


I was thinking that there was a simple "dry out" product (which WD40 would do as it designed to replace water)...

[pale scotsman]

While we're at it, what about Boeshield T-9? My dad uses it on his old school car tools and swears by it. I think it was Rivendell that recommended it too.

[dgauthier]

( . . . ) WD40 would do as it designed to replace water)...

WD40 tastes terrible! At least go with an energy drink . . .

[IXXI]

While we're at it, what about Boeshield T-9? My dad uses it on his old school car tools and swears by it. I think it was Rivendell that recommended it too.
I love T9 on my chain and swear by it there; I've read it can be used to treat steel tubes too and would see it as a viable option to FS... but for me, FS somehow seems more 'secure'--like the inside of a steel tube is really gonna see that much action from the elements? It's my own perception I know. T9 is so runny and seems so thin, not that FS isn't runny when first sprayed, but I suppose both are made to set up with a lasting coating. I'm rambling and cutting myself off. Now. Period.

[catulle]

Framesaver keeps my pooch nice and dry. Also, it keeps flees and ticks away. I spray Framesaver on my children during mosquito season. The wife likes it for them spiked hairdo's. Framesaver is the product for the polimorphous pervert. Thank you.

[shinomaster]

The inside of the seat tube of my atlanta is very rusty and pitted. Should I try to sand it out with a metal brush or just frame save it? Every time I take the bike apart it seems worse.
What about a chemical bath to strip the rust away?

[Rapid Tourist]

To answer the question about how often to do framesaver, I have read that you should refresh it every couple or three years. This would depend on whether you liike to ride inthe rain, live in FLorida or Seattle, etc...

Have fun!

[GregLR]

The inside of the seat tube of my atlanta is very rusty and pitted. Should I try to sand it out with a metal brush or just frame save it? ...What about a chemical bath to strip the rust away?

I've had a similar problem with a 10-year old custom-built steel frame made of Columbus 'Nemo' tubing. Water got into the bottom bracket shell, and caused a film of condensation rust in the seat tube, down tube and chainstays.

Following advice from a framebuilder, I treated the inside of the tubes with 'fish oil', a product widely used in Australia as a rust inhibitor. It's available in automotive parts outlets. See this page for an example of this product http://www.honeywell.com.au/business/holts/powerplus/fishoil.html

Here's some of the things two manufacturers say about fish oil :

- "a deodorised rust-inhibiting formulation. Fish Oil actively saturates rust scale and removes moisture helping to halt further rusting. Saturates rust and removes moisture. Ideal for inaccessible places"

- "this deodorised product penetrates to where the rust starts, neutralising and sealing existing oxide with long-lasting, flexible coating that ensures rust protection."

The aerosol can that I bought came with a long feeder tube enabling the substance to be sprayed deep into the tubes, from the bottom bracket area and through the top of the seat tube.

I sprayed a lot of the liquid into each of the tubes on two separate occasions, and moved the frame around a lot to increase the chances that the liquid would cover the entire insides of the tubes, though there was no way of telling whether I achieved this. The substance left a sticky film inside the tubes that I could access with my fingers.

I was intending to give the tubes a third treatment, but I was worried that I wasn't doing my health much good because it was difficult to avoid breathing the strong fumes (the label specifically recommended against this).

After this exercise, I rebuilt the bike with new parts, and I've ridden it a lot since Christmas (it's one of 5 road bikes I have). I'm obviously hoping that the manufacturers' claims about fish oil are true !

Greg

[531Aussie]

there's no reason to worry about water atmo - (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bobbesrs/detail?.dir=ea4f&.dnm=ad5c.jpg&.src=ph) OMG!!!!!! Is that your bike? :D

[e-RICHIE]

OMG!!!!!! Is that your bike? :D

yeah - i'm what ya' call a substance abuser atmo

[531Aussie]

I've had a similar problem with a 10-year old custom-built steel frame made of Columbus 'Nemo' tubing. Water got into the bottom bracket shell, and caused a film of condensation rust in the seat tube, down tube and chainstays.

Following advice from a framebuilder, I treated the inside of the tubes with 'fish oil', a product widely used in Australia as a rust inhibitor. It's I'm probably a bit over protective with my Cervelo, but the frame-set was $1700 AUS, which is by far the most I've ever spent on a frame. The one and only time I got caught in heavy rain on it, I pulled apart the bottom bracket and found about 2mm of water sitting there!!! When I was wiping out the water, the fish oil came right off!! I let the stuff dry for 5 days before I built the bike up.

Anyway, I've been caught a million times in the rain on my old Raleigh (bought in 1992), and the inside of the BB area is still pretty good, but I drilled a drain hole several years ago. So, too much concern might be unnecessary. As long as there's a drain point, the inside of BBs will probably be ok.

[Too Tall]

ShinyPath - have your local shop flex hone the seat tube than hit it with wiegel's...when that is dry swab it with white lithium and be done with it for a few yrs.

Catulle - Cute dog and am sure he'll enjoy this recipe:

Spotted D!ck
and Bird's Custard

Serves 4

Self-raising flour - 75g (3 oz)
Fresh breadcrumbs - 110g (4 oz)
Shredded suet - 75g (3 oz)
Caster sugar - 50g (2 oz)
Currants - 175g (6 oz)
Lemon - 1, zest only Milk - 5 tbsp

METHOD 1. Mix everything together. Shape into a neat roll about 15 cm (6 inches) long. 2. Make a 5 cm (2 inch) pleat across a clean tea towel or pudding cloth. Or pleat together sheets of greased greaseproof paper and strong foil. Wrap the roll loosely, to allow for expansion, in the cloth or foil, pleating the open edges tightly together. Tie the ends securely with string. Make a string handle across the top. 3. Lower the pudding into a large pan of boiling water, cover and boil for 1½ hours. 4. Lift out using the string handle. Place on a wire rack standing over a plate and allow excess moisture to drain off. Snip the string and gently roll the pudding out of the cloth or foil on to a warmed serving plate. 5. Serve sliced with custard.

Serve it with Bird's Custard which is available in powder form at most supermarkets and all you need do is add sugar and milk and bring to a boil. It makes a good sauce. It's good on Pies, too, or fruit.

[Chris Woods]

Following advice from a framebuilder, I treated the inside of the tubes with 'fish oil', a product widely used in Australia as a rust inhibitor.

WD-40 is, in fact, primarily fish oil and does the same thing to displace water.

For motocross bikes, which are washed down after every use, you towel dry and then spray the entire bike down with WD-40 to displace the remaining water and protect the metal and plastic until the next ride.

And, FYI, I am now told by the bike's fitter and vendor, Paul Levine, that my Serotta was treated with Framesaver at the factory. Not sure if this is a standard procedure. But Serotta has not yet answered my email on the question (3 days later).

[shinomaster]

Thanks for all the info ...what is white litium?

[11.4]

Wow. Busy little thread going here. Folks must like the fumes. e-Richie especially.

I too use it, I have to admit, and do so religiously. It's better at sealing the metal against corrosive entry than linseed oil, and it's much nicer to apply. It's invented by a top framebuilder and endorsed by two others on this thread alone. Same for Kellogg, same for ... Get the message? Why buy a high end custom frame and then try to save $4 or $5 on protecting it?

A few tweaks on how to use it: First, put the bike out in the sun for a couple hours or at least where it will warm up nicely. That helps the Framesaver flow everywhere and not congeal too fast. Then do the job outdoors. I actually use a frame shipping box and don't worry about getting stuff on the outside of the frame, but then I can spray and rotate the frame at will. Get into the stay ends, downtube and seat tube especially, and get them from the bottom bracket end so the lower ends are well treated -- they get the worst abuse from rain. This is much easier if you remove the bottom bracket, but if you have a fixed cup in place it doesn't matter -- just clean it off before reassembling. If you have a steel fork, spray both the inside of the steer and the outside -- in hot weather simple perspiration gets down inside and rusts the steer (it doesn't rust through that thick a piece of metal, but trying to remove a Chris King top race over a rusted steer isn't fun). Don't put on too much in one coating -- two or three lighter coats work better as long as you actually put on enough to get to the ends of the tubes with each spraying. Cleanup with naphtha or even mineral spirits is fast and easy.

If you have pre-existing rust or grease in the tubes, I'd use a flexhone or at least a round wire brush on a long handle (industrial supplies have them). The flexhoning should be done by a machinist or framebuilder. I do try to clean off grease, old Boeshield, whatever with some spray grease remover (I haven't had problems with the carburetor cleaner I use), and then apply the Framesaver. It does its job better on clean metal.

Does Framesaver work better than linseed oil or other products? I'd say so. Linseed oil goes on in a rather thin coat which is dissolved by a subsequent application of the same, and when it dries it leaves tiny pores in the film which actually helps the stuff breathe a bit (if it were an oil painting) but creates opportunities for moisture to get under the oil film. Framesaver is concocted to go on thick and without pores, and successive coats build thickness. It also is formulated so as not to affect your paint. If you ride in Florida (or even Seattle) you may never notice the difference, but try a nice wet salty state like Connecticut and you will be disappointed in the linseed oil. As for Boeshield, it protects metal parts but depends on the metal being only intermittently wet. There are nooks and crannies in a frame that will hold water for quite a while, and Boeshield just doesn't keep the water from penetrating. And WD-40 practically washes out -- although it dries to a somewhat sticky film, if it gets anywhere near grease (as in ... antiseize in the bottom bracket?) it solubilizes and doesn't do much at all. I fail to grasp why the reluctance to use a product that almost all framebuilders embrace and endorse. Plus Weigle is one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. He makes a little money selling this stuff, and he should. e-Richie should market his specially branded hair tonic -- consider the endorsement opportunities.

[catulle]

ShinyPath - have your local shop flex hone the seat tube than hit it with wiegel's...when that is dry swab it with white lithium and be done with it for a few yrs.

Catulle - Cute dog and am sure he'll enjoy this recipe:

Spotted D!ck
and Bird's Custard

Serves 4

Self-raising flour - 75g (3 oz)
Fresh breadcrumbs - 110g (4 oz)
Shredded suet - 75g (3 oz)
Caster sugar - 50g (2 oz)
Currants - 175g (6 oz)
Lemon - 1, zest only Milk - 5 tbsp

METHOD 1. Mix everything together. Shape into a neat roll about 15 cm (6 inches) long. 2. Make a 5 cm (2 inch) pleat across a clean tea towel or pudding cloth. Or pleat together sheets of greased greaseproof paper and strong foil. Wrap the roll loosely, to allow for expansion, in the cloth or foil, pleating the open edges tightly together. Tie the ends securely with string. Make a string handle across the top. 3. Lower the pudding into a large pan of boiling water, cover and boil for 1½ hours. 4. Lift out using the string handle. Place on a wire rack standing over a plate and allow excess moisture to drain off. Snip the string and gently roll the pudding out of the cloth or foil on to a warmed serving plate. 5. Serve sliced with custard.

Serve it with Bird's Custard which is available in powder form at most supermarkets and all you need do is add sugar and milk and bring to a boil. It makes a good sauce. It's good on Pies, too, or fruit.

Hell, dude, I´m keeping that stuff for myself. And I ain´t giving the missus any, neither.

[catulle]

Just my $0.002. I live a few yards from the ocean in very humid and hot weather. I think I know a thing or two about corrosion. WD-40 is a very light oil which is good to clean parts, or sometimes it might work as penetrating oil, but it is not an anti-rust product by any means. If I clean a fishing reel or a gun, I might spray it with WD-40 just to remove any left over grime or degreaser, and to just leave the parts slightly oiled. WD-40 is also used to spray motorcycles and outboard engines after they have been cleaned. But it wouldn't occur to me to use WD-40 as a long term rust protectant.

After trying just about every product ever produced, I have found that Remington Oil is the best mid-term rust protectant for guns. But even then you have to wipe your guns with the stuff every so often to keep the rust away.

Now, for the insides of a frame, where you have humidity and condensation, you need serious sheeit. Framesaver is a specialized product which, from what I read here (how it sticks to things, how heavy it is...) must be the ticket for protecting your frame. Also, Peter is a hell of a nice guy and he really knows his business. Of course, at any hardware store you will find many long term storage anti-corrosion products which can also do the job; however, most of those products will possibly melt and leak if you leave your bicyle exposed to a hot sun for a prolonged period of time.

In few words, don't try to discover the wheel, and buy Framesaver if you want to protect your steel frame from rust. And remember, Framesaver will bring the spark back to your married life, and when mixed with Piña Colada Tim Leary will talk to you. How do you think Pamela Anderson got to be so luscious?

[GregLR]

Thanks for all the info ...what is white litium?
See http://www.valco-cp.com/White%20Lithium%20Grease.htm. I've got an aerosol can of this stuff.

Also, I was very interested to learn from 11.4's post about using a flexhone http://www.newmantools.com/flexhone/index.html to grind out existing rust inside the tubes. Sounds very promising, but it may be difficult for the operator (11.4 suggested that a machinist for framebuilder should do the work) to get it into chainstays and the down tube where the original framebuilder had left a lip of one of the other tubes partially covering the entrance to the tube.

I was aware of Framesaver well before I embarked on the fish oil treatment, but it doesn't seem to be available in Australia and I didn't like the idea of ordering an aerosol can from the US for shipping by air.

By the way, before fish oiling the frame I also tried treating the inside of the tubes with a product available here called 'rust converter' - see this example
http://www.liquideng.com.au/exitrust.html (this is not the one I used).

As indicated on that page, these products work "...by converting rust to a stable black surface of Iron Tannate/Haematite (Fe2O3) and Magnetite (Fe3O4), which works through a chelation chemical reaction to form a strong matrix bonding to the original metal."

But I wasn't convinced that the chemical reaction claimed by the 'rust converter' manufacturer actually took place within my Nemo frame, because the rust looked the same when I shone a torch down inside the seat tube.

Before that I also paid $100 to a motor vehicle restorer to clean out the rust inside the frame, but again I wasn't convinced that this was money well spent.

All in all I had this frame sitting around for about 18 months before I finally took the framebuilder's advice and fishoiled it as my final go at saving this nice frame from rusting inside out.

Greg

[Too Tall]

Greg, the reason it was suggested that an experienced hand run the flex hone is because it has potential to generate enough heat to warp tubes if not done properly. The correct way is to be generous with the hone oil. Push the hone into your seattube before you start the drill, use the correct sized instrument and keep the bugger moving whist adding MORE hone oil down the bore. Usually folks flex hone lightly rusted seattubes and nothing more....I've done it many times....works great. Less filling.

Hair Tonic un huh how Everett Ulysses McGill.

[ADD]

Anyone happen to know a Canadian distributor for J.P. Weigle Framesaver?

[DarrenCT]

Anyone happen to know a Canadian distributor for J.P. Weigle Framesaver?

ebay?

[Mike748]

As a recovering English & German car restorer, I know a bit about rust... The British car folk swear by a product called Waxoyl which is very similar atmo to Framesaver (same smell!). Both are a wax based material with a volatile carrier that evaporates. The wax has a rust inhibitor mixed in which neutralizes existing rust. The wax coating is also self healing. All of which makes it better than linseed oil or wd40.

I found Framesaver easy to use. Amazed at how much coverage a little can offers. I used it on my CSi and my Miyata and probably have enough left for my BSA.

I think I read that Serotta has been using Framesaver on new steel bikes since the late 90's, so the original poster probably is covered anyway.

[Buzz]

ps
i may be wrong but i think the weigle stuff reminds me a lot of the pine tar that we used to apply to wooden cross ctry skis...
a lot like it atmo.

mmm...Grundvala...that's going way back in the memory vault.

[thwart]

In the very scientific "spots on the driveway" test:

WD 40: gone in days

Boeshield: gone in days

Motor oil: gone in months

Weigle's FS: my wife is really pis*ed; it's never going to come off...

[Frank]

I put the frame in the bike stand and, for example, start with the top tube. I have the bike level and put a rag in one end of the top tube (headtube end first for example). I then spray into the top tube from the seattube end.

Then, I take the rag out and put it into the seattube end of the top tube. I then spray into the top tube from the headtube end. I then put a rag in each end of the top tube, take the frame out of the stand, and "roll" the frame
around as if I was trying to coat the entire inside of the top tube...which I am.

After that, I put the frame back in the stand and I stuff a rag in each end of the top tube, in the bottom bracket shell, and at the bottom of the headtube. I then spray the seat tube and head tube and down tube and let the bike sit til the spray is not running anymore.

I then tilt the bike with the rear of the bike pointing down. I spray into the chainstays and into the seat stays if I can, plus the downtube. I spray the fork steerer while I am waiting for this to dry some (rag in bottom of
fork crown).

Finally, I put a rag on one side of the bb shell and spray the bb shell inside from the other side.

JP Weigle FrameSaver is messier and smellier than Boeshield T9 and you need to make sure to put something down to catch the drips, although they have cleaned up ok for me off the garage floor. Don't need too much...a can is supposed to do 4 or 5 bikes as I remember. If it runs out on the floor
you are wasting it.

I think the main source of rust is some water getting in during a ride and not being able to exit the bottom bracket if there is no drain hole. Even on bikes without it I now drill a small hole at the lowest point of the bb shell to let water drain out.

[11.4]

Anyone happen to know a Canadian distributor for J.P. Weigle Framesaver?

If you look for a local source for Cosmolene, you'll have a very similar product. I couldn't swear to it, but FrameSaver smells and looks like a slightly diluted version of Cosmolene.

[sfhbike]

Very helpful thread. Just discovered a little bit of rust coming out at the holes on my seat stays on a newer steel track frame, so thought I'd best treat it. Doesn't look like my LBS did when they built it up for me . . .

1) I've dumped some WD40 and boeshield chain lube down the tubes before reading about this stuff. How big of a problem is that? Do I need to clean it out? If I need to clean it out before using framesaver, what is the easiest way to do that here at home? Any recommended solvent/degreaser? Will that effect a later application of framesaver? 11.4 recommended carb cleaner. Or should I just wait for WD40/Boeshield to wash out eventually?

2) Do I have to pull out the BB, or can I apply without going through that hassle? Don't have the tools/expertise/time to fiddle with that. I currently have a old style bearing BB which I want to switch out with a sealed one eventually, so I'm not too concerned about it.

3) How often should the stuff be applied?

Cheers.