OT: The kids these days.

[giverdada]

I work with teenagers every day in old old classrooms in an old old system trying to teach old old books' ideas with new words and modern takes and postmodern shortcomings. It's a beautiful and hard thing.

Then a student today asks if I knew a fifteen-year-old girl at another school who died on the weekend. Suicide was mentioned/rumored. I did not know her.

We've discussed it on here a bit before, regarding depression/mental health and using the bike (and other avenues) to cope, but this news today just hit me me and made me wonder what the hell we are doing to raise kids that feel they have no other options, no further to go. What are we doing? The postmodernist in me wonders about the assumption that every living person should, and should want to live. I don't know. I just care for these kids and feel pretty helpless sometimes when faced with realities like this.

Anyway, I don't have a discussion-starter here. I just happened upon this devastating news today and am still stunned. What do your kids do to deal? What helped you through the dark in all those tough teen years? What can I see or say to keep the balance?

[Louis]

That's an unfortunate story. For the kids, talking about it in a classroom setting with guidance from an adult should certainly help a bit.

I know very little about this, but I figure this is a good place to start:

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/suicide-a-major-preventable-mental-health-problem-fact-sheet/index.shtml

[malcolm]

they have little ability to project and limited perspective therefore everything seems like then end of the world

[pitonpat]

I'm always saddened when I hear of a young person who feels there is no option other than suicide.

In your post, you asked how we got through our dark teen years... and for me it was my involvement with a really adventurous Boy Scout troop. From my Scoutmaster, who was my greatest influence and mentor eclipsing all others, I developed and have pursued an interest in outdoor pursuits; especially rock climbing and mountaineering. This, along with the friends I made within the Scout troop, gave me the sense of worth and belonging that I surmise may be missing for so many kids. The activities I pursued were so different than my school peers and that gave a profound sense of self-worth beyond the mundane daily activities of a typical teenager.

Since you're posing this question on a cycling forum, and presumably you are a cyclist, and supposing that you are casting about for some way to inspire your students, may I suggest you start a cycling club at your school?

I suppose the effort to do so may be fraught with all sorts of stumbling blocks like insurance and the potential danger associated with the sport, as well as the potential need for bikes for those students who don't already one one. I think you might be surprised by the generosity of our cycling community, and equipping a club might not be such a difficult thing. In my experience, being a part of a special or unique group can make all the difference to a kid!

I'll offer to be the first...You get something started and I'll send you my Lemond Etape (Shimano Tiagra triple & new tires) to get the stable of rides started. Let me know...

[Kirk007]

We've lost a family member to suicide. My son has lost 1 very, very close friend, and at least three other acquaintances to suicide since he was 16 (now 22). The most recent at Christmas - a feisty, seemingly joyous and adventurous young woman who was a high achiever through high school and college, and was then trying to find herself in Hawaii working in a dive shop after a disillusioning experience with a dolphin rescue organization. We never would have guessed. I think some teen suicide is spontaneous, emotional naive overreaction but most I believe has much deeper roots.

My wife, Ian's mother, struggles with depression, has for the almost 30 years of our marriage. Tried every medication, counseling, exercise, diet. We live it. There are periods when I wonder on an almost daily basis whether she will still be with me when I get home. And I understand, and will forgive her if someday I come home and she is gone. I see, practically feel the darkness somedays.

I recently talked about this with my son and he said that he has thought about suicide (again I think many of us probably have) but that he just couldn't leave friends and family with all of the unanswered questions that he has had to deal with through the loss of his friends. I hope he always holds to this. He worries about his mom on a daily basis.

I think as a society we ignore and severely discount how hard life is for many, we deny that depression is a medical disease, we tell people to get over it --we don't know sh*t when we speak like that. For someone who has never dealt with depression or been very close to someone who has, well, they are pretty much clueless (and perhaps very lucky even if it creates a lack of empathy on their part). Last July I lost my law school roommate to suicide in July. His note apologized for the pain he was causing for friends and family but ended with that for him, the pain was finally over.

A good, quality life is worth living. Not everyone has that. Many of our kids believe the will not. Is it really a wonder that kids are so pessimistic and have such a bleak outlook on life? Look around at society and the class divide, the underlying racism that the internet and everyone with a camera is documenting still runs rampant through our societies, the rage and crime, and terror and medieval acts and mindset in the Mideast, the runaway destruction of our world. Ask these kids what they think of the future they face - I've had more than one teenager tell me that "they" are f*cked - and our actions are the reason why.

I don't know what you tell your school children dealing with this. There is no good answer as far as I can tell as you don't know what really happened. For the kids, I think empathy and just being available is best. And there is a lot of information out there on support of "survivors." I would focus on the parents, and remind them to love their kids every day. To keep communications lines open. To be watchful for changes in behavior. To not be afraid to ask questions and intervene if they believe it necessary. And finally, to accept that their children, just like every other person on earth, is their own person. We do not own or possess them, we tend and watch after them for a time, but at some point, they will live their life on their terms, or not.

I believe now, with the right reserved to change my mind, that I would prefer to take my life than live the current life of, for instance, my father-in-law - year three in a memory care facility with dementia. Can't talk, can't feed himself, can't go to the bathroom or clean-up after himself, his teeth are falling out as he can't brush. Screw that. We all will move on in time, and I have respect and sympathy for those who chose the timing. That said, the decay of our social fabric and support for others, particularly those suffering mental illnesses is beyond words to me. Whenever I hear someone boasting of America's exceptionalism, I think of this and shake my head.

Sorry for the ramble; this topic is very personal and one that I am way too familiar with.

[eddief]

Think about being human and the complexities of us as a machine. Reality is a miracle. The planet is a miracle. The universe is a crazy miracle. Social structure is a miracle. Politics is a miracle. Bio chemistry is a miracle. Something can easily go haywire and we are, in many ways, too small to be able to handle the complexity. So some weird, unpredictable, and sad stuff can happen. But crazy good stuff happens too. All we can do is the best we can do. I contend I and many others often are not at our best...and then there are huge populations that not even in the ballpark.

I think it's weird to spend millions to build a suicide barrier on the Golden Gate Bridge.

[giverdada]

wow.

pat, amazingly generous offer for the bike. amazing.

kirk007, wow. no words.

but thanks. so many thanks.

[ultraman6970]

Pfff... I can fill u a whole book to answer the questions the OP is making...

[peanutgallery]

As the committee chair for my son's troop I appreciate the sentiment about a scoutmaster and the program. A scoutmaster is definitely a calling. I hope my son gets the same out of scouts that I did as a kid

That is a tough age and finding a place to grow and go is hard. its sad when a kid responds like this, as a parent its heartbreaking to hear stories like this


I'm always saddened when I hear of a young person who feels there is no option other than suicide.

In your post, you asked how we got through our dark teen years... and for me it was my involvement with a really adventurous Boy Scout troop. From my Scoutmaster, who was my greatest influence and mentor eclipsing all others, I developed and have pursued an interest in outdoor pursuits; especially rock climbing and mountaineering. This, along with the friends I made within the Scout troop, gave me the sense of worth and belonging that I surmise may be missing for so many kids. The activities I pursued were so different than my school peers and that gave a profound sense of self-worth beyond the mundane daily activities of a typical teenager.

Since you're posing this question on a cycling forum, and presumably you are a cyclist, and supposing that you are casting about for some way to inspire your students, may I suggest you start a cycling club at your school?

I suppose the effort to do so may be fraught with all sorts of stumbling blocks like insurance and the potential danger associated with the sport, as well as the potential need for bikes for those students who don't already one one. I think you might be surprised by the generosity of our cycling community, and equipping a club might not be such a difficult thing. In my experience, being a part of a special or unique group can make all the difference to a kid!

I'll offer to be the first...You get something started and I'll send you my Lemond Etape (Shimano Tiagra triple & new tires) to get the stable of rides started. Let me know...

[martinez]

This is a really sensitive subject to try and tap into when it comes to children.
They ultimately just want to be understood and belong, and feel like they are important to someone. And most times, this is a really hard conversation to have with some especially when they feel very embarrassed to express these types of emotions. I have nephews who are currently entering their teenage years and I try to keep contact with them as often as I can. I grew up seeing my uncles and aunts maybe once or twice a month with simply greeting them and then just hanging in their home. I want to create a closer relationship with my nephews than I ever had with my uncles and aunts because they are my brothers and sisters kids and I feel that it is my duty to be an extension of support for them. I constantly check on them and see how they're doing. I also like to take them out to movies, hiking, and have tried to get them into cycling several times although my sister is paranoid of them being hurt in the streets. With my nephews, since I have the benefit of being their uncle and some freedom as opposed to with the OP's students, I try and show em the better things that life has to offer. My sister with the almost teenage kids is the most strict from my siblings, so I try to offset it by being a more relaxed and adventurous uncle. I want to show them that despite the fact that their mom is strict with rules and school, there's beauty to be experienced in the world while also getting stuff done. I let them know if they ever have questions about ANYTHING, to not hesitate to ask. I am 26 years old but I am far from acting like an adult compared to most my age. I definitely feel like I have a young but extremely big heart. And I want my nephews to realize that growing up doesn't mean you have to grow up. Just means that sometimes you gotta put on those big boy pants...but then you can jump right into your dinosaur onesie as soon as you get home!

I feel like that wasn't too organized of a paragraph, but hopefully there was something you guys were able to get from it

[1centaur]

While it is often said, I don't think it is often enough believed by those of us who are not depressed: this is a physical illness. It's about brain chemistry. Because it manifests on the outside as feelings and attitude it seems to us like it can be fixed with advice on feelings and attitude, and when people commit suicide it feels to us like we should have said the right thing at the right time, but that is not true. I know exactly what Kirk007 means about accepting that someone may not still be with us when I come home. For those who live with depressed people, the cliched sequence from denial to acceptance applies.

There have always been depressed teens and teen suicides, regardless of society's problems. Because teens are moody anyway it's a little harder for adults to separate moody from depressed, and because teens have not been hardened by enduring a lot they may not have the fortitude to make it through to calmer waters. I concur that expressing love and support, as well as seeking treatment in various forms are all valid paths for outsiders to attempt, but medication is often useless and psychologists often are just professional versions of useless advice givers. We are not good at "fixing" the physical reality of brain chemistry. I have read that exercise is as beneficial to brain chemistry as anti-depressants, and I would encourage anyone who knows someone suffering from depression to try that avenue, but ultimately we may be pushing on a string and it's not our fault if the string is unresponsive to our efforts.

I have come to consider myself lucky that my brain chemistry is the way it is.

[djg]

It's terrible and sad stuff and there are no easy answers to this. Some people face very bleak circumstances and some have good support and many options and treatment and it is not enough -- they don't make it and it is hard to know what would have made the difference. There are circumstances -- an environment -- and there's outlook and illness and chance.

Everything people are saying about keeping kids involved and both offering and seeking support makes sense. In the end we muddle through with imperfect tools and imperfect information. And, as parents, we worry. My heart goes out to the kid's family.

[FlashUNC]

I can't speak to having those experiences as an adolescent, looking back I was lucky enough to be one of the cool kids whose high school experience -- while I thought it sucked at the time -- probably paled in comparison to the daily hell some of my peers faced.

As an adult? Therapy helped, a lot. Not for the "Oh, I do have unresolved issues with my mother" stereotypes. It was just good to have a detached third party who I could talk to about what I may have been going through at a particular moment, a trained professional who could help me figure things out.

Shame more health plans don't cover mental health like they do the physical stuff.

[soulspinner]

Lost a loved one to suicide and never saw it coming. Devastating. It affects so many so profoundly.........

[gemship]

Well I don't want to play down the significance of depression but there's an old saying that comes to mind " Idle time is the devil's workshop". I thought of that after reading this thread and thinking about kids that in my opinion to some degree spoiled rotten with time and the understated privilege of being left to their own devices. Never mind possibly being spoiled in other more mundane ways with electronic gadgets.

[Louis]

Well I don't want to play down the significance of depression but there's an old saying that comes to mind " Idle time is the devil's workshop". I thought of that after reading this thread and thinking about kids that in my opinion to some degree spoiled rotten with time and the understated privilege of being left to their own devices. Never mind possibly being spoiled in other more mundane ways with electronic gadgets.

I'm no expert on suicide and depression, but from what I've heard I don't think "tough love" is usually a solution.

[gemship]

I'm no expert on suicide and depression, but from what I've heard I don't think "tough love" is usually a solution.

I never said tough love was a solution. I can't tell you you how many younger people I have met that are moody/depressed that are given smartphones and cars and I imagine allowances and are still not happy. These kids I think about sometimes and I think wonder if they will ever learn what it's like to earn what they have thru hard work.

Also hard work doesn't necessarily mean working a hard, demanding job. It could mean being a cashier at a supermarket but having the fiscal sense and or ambition to set a goal to save up for a big ticket item rather than just having it handed to you

[gemship]

What I think is also sad are the kids you hear about that commit suicide due to cyber bullying like on Facebook. That site is the biggest waste of one's time. In theory it's great but the reality is it's a first world problem waiting to happen. It's too bad the parent's of some of those kids couldn't have fostered an interest in some kind of art or trade/skill in the child. Then possibly the now dead kid maybe so engrossed with what they are creating that they could care less about what others thought of them. I just figure the parents of said kids were too self involved to be bothered unfortunately and perhaps not very bright to begin with. It's a complex issue.

[bironi]

I read this article this morning. It provides some perspective on this subject.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/the-demons-got-my-beautiful-loving-daughter/2015/04/20/cdaaa338-dfc2-11e4-a1b8-2ed88bc190d2_story.html?tid=pm_pop

[DreaminJohn]

This is all ATMO. I'm only speaking from my experiences.....

As someone who suffers from depression I can share what I think is the most important thing that I've learned. My shrink told me when I was first diagnosed that the best way to treat it is to defy it - get pi$$ed at it, tell yourself that the darkness (and it's absolutely a darkness/light metaphor for me) won't win this day/hour/minute. It took me a while to come around to this. I've tried every family of anti-depressant known. For me the drugs just put the issues behind a glass wall while numbing you to life.

Now, the frame of mind to fight the darkness - that's where the exercise and physical side come in. Getting into the good habits, making them part of a routine....these are the things that work for me. The corollary is also true. The darkness is energy-sapping and greatly hinders your ability to deal with even minor setbacks. Quite self-perpetuating.

My sympathies to anyone who has a loved one like me. My wife still struggles to understand my "moods" although she is getting better at reading them.

[FlashUNC]

I never said tough love was a solution. I can't tell you you how many younger people I have met that are moody/depressed that are given smartphones and cars and I imagine allowances and are still not happy. These kids I think about sometimes and I think wonder if they will ever learn what it's like to earn what they have thru hard work.

Also hard work doesn't necessarily mean working a hard, demanding job. It could mean being a cashier at a supermarket but having the fiscal sense and or ambition to set a goal to save up for a big ticket item rather than just having it handed to you

I'm really having a hard time understanding this argument.

1) Kids have too much free time, so their focus skews towards negative thoughts, depression and, worst case, suicide.

2) Kids are surrounded by legions of distractions society has never seen before in the form of electronic entertainment, social media, etc. The kinds of distractions that should, in theory, keep them so busy that they don't have time to focus on Step 1. How can idle hands be the devil's work, if the hands are never idle?

3) Those distractions are somehow not distracting enough from the cycle of Step One, so the answer is take all of Step 2 away and put them in a coal mine or digging ditches?

I'm not sure I buy this Protestant work ethic notion that hard work will set them free from what is inevitably a complex series of internal and external forces at work.

[gemship]

I'm really having a hard time understanding this argument.

1) Kids have too much free time, so their focus skews towards negative thoughts, depression and, worst case, suicide.

2) Kids are surrounded by legions of distractions society has never seen before in the form of electronic entertainment, social media, etc. The kinds of distractions that should, in theory, keep them so busy that they don't have time to focus on Step 1. How can idle hands be the devil's work, if the hands are never idle?

3) Those distractions are somehow not distracting enough from the cycle of Step One, so the answer is take all of Step 2 away and put them in a coal mine or digging ditches?

I'm not sure I buy this Protestant work ethic notion that hard work will set them free from what is inevitably a complex series of internal and external forces at work.


Yeah making them dig ditches all day probably is a bad idea:p

I don't know after reading a couple of the posts after mine I started thinking about chemical imbalances and drugs to change that for the better....

It's a pretty complicated subject, obviously my opinion is just that and based on what I was thinking about at the moment. I actually wonder about some younger people I know that have first world problems and aren't happy and don't want to work. As far as I know they aren't diagnosed as depressed or the like but boy are they spoiled rotten and they waste a lot of time doing nothing.

That's all I got guy, what have you got?

[seanile]

This, along with the friends I made within the Scout troop, gave me the sense of worth and belonging that I surmise may be missing for so many kids.
Before i read all the posts i want to try and answer with my perspective. For me, it was/is the lackof the above. Elementary, middle, and high school are times when the people you were interacting with havent developed a filter yet, are experiencing how it feels to be an asshole to someone for the first time, and so more often than not you're hearing exactly what they're thinking about you. At the tail end of my time in elementary school I was ostracized by a couple of friends that I dumped because they were changing for the worse, but because they were the popular kids they turned my entire grade against me. This led to three years of middle school where I was shunned, physically, and mentally abused by my peers for no true reason beside it was the socially encouraged thing to do. The only reason I didn't/don't take my life was because I didn't want my parents to blame themselves. I chose to go to a new high school where I didn't know anybody because I knew that either I would kill myself or somebody else if I had to deal with that for another four years. Unfortunately, that feeling of aloneness is extremely..durable for lack of better words. I have some very deeply ingrained trust issues and refuse to rely on anyone else or even grow an intimate relationship with anyone for fear of being betrayed or reminded of how unwanted I am... for fear of proving them right after taking more than a decade to finally get comfortable with who i am. And so I am afraid of change because of this new found comfort. A perpetual feeling of no matter how much I know my friends and family love me, I can't wholly reciprocate what they offer me prevails as a safety mechanism.
For your students, best thing I can recommend is to find a way to show them that they are appreciated for who they are, and who they want to be, and give them outlets where they could be themselves while surrounded by people accepting them.. so they know that they don't only have themselves to rely on, because that is too much responsibilty to bear. Give them something that they own, something that demands their involvement, something that proves that they are needed.. a team, project, hobby, anything that gets them involved in something that depends on their involvement.
Edit: im 25 for scale

[milkbaby]

seanile, thank you for sharing your perspective, it takes some bravery to expose yourself like that. I would also like to suggest that you might consider seeking counseling as well. My gf has a personality disorder and counseling was one of the things that helped her. It's not a cure all, but it can help you cope and help avoid distorted thinking patterns.

On the subject of suicide, I lost an uncle to it, and the very day this thread was started, one of my work colleagues, a grad student, committed suicide. It's not a simple problem with a simple solution. However, I believe that most people that choose that path reach a point where they feel no hope and that the internal suffering seems like it will never end. That is distorted thinking, and distorted thinking is not necessarily all that uncommon. We can easily fall into traps where we generalize our experiences. For example, maybe a guy always ends up being dumped by his girlfriends, so he generalizes that he is unlovable and people will always abandon him. However, that simply is not true, it is just what has happened in those particular instances.

The more experiences we have, the more personal connections to other people we have, and the more joy we experience, the less likely we may be to go down that road of hopelessness. Many kids don't have the safety factor of having somebody love them unconditionally; therefore they don't learn how to love themselves unconditionally which is very important. Note that unconditionally loving oneself is not the same as having an inflated sense of self worth. When you have an inflated sense of self worth, failure and other incidents can deflate that and undermine one's sense of identity. When you love yourself, you are willing to accept your flaws, forgive yourself, and still try to better yourself.

[Bstone]

Just agreeing with many statements; depression is a disease. Those of us who have lived with family members that have been stricken have experienced how difficult it can be.

Cycling does help.

[bikingshearer]

Some random thoughts that came to me while reading the posts.

1. My sense (and it is only a sense - I have no data to back it up) is that teen suicide (and suicide in general) is not happening at a greater rate than in prior years or generations, but it is more openly discussed and analyzed. That increased openness is a good thing, but it sometimes makes it feel like the scope of the problem is worse than I suspect it actually is. That is one hell of a lot better than ignoring a problem that is bigger than we want to believe.

2. 7th through 9th or 10th grade is a terrible time to be alive for just about everyone. You are no longer a "little kid," but you are not yet an adult or even full-fledged teenager, hormones are kicking in, and life no longer makes any sense at all. And kids can be unspeakably cruel to each other, sometimes without even meaning to be. 'Twas ever thus, which I say that not to make light or excuse bad behavior - we as parents and other adults have an obligation to intervene when necessary to stop such cruelty - but to remind us all that this is, unfortunately, not a new issue. It is also an issue that will never go completely away in our lifetimes.

3. About all I could do to help my son when he was going though junior high was listen, try to empathize, try to make him feel loved and able to talk to me or his Mom, and assure him that everyone was feeling the same sense of upheaval and insecurity that he was. Everyone. Even the "cool" kids. Maybe especially the "cool" kids. And most certainly his dad when he was that age. The only difference was that he could see and hear what was going on in his head and he could not see or hear what was going on in other kids' heads. I also told him that I knew that what I was telling him was not going to make everything better, but that at least he could know that he was not alone or somehow "weird." And that things would get better, however slowly. Fortunately, for most 12 and 13 and 14 years olds, things really do get better.

4. However much we want to identify and fix the problems of those to whom we are close, we almost never really can. The person has to do that themselves. We can listen, we can make sure they know we love and value them, we can support them when and how we can. But we can't fix them. That is a really sucky truth, but it is a truth.

5. Small kindnesses and setting a good example can have good impacts about which we will never know. You will never know when or where a random kind act will be a life-changer, or even a life-saver, for someone else.

6. In my experience, nothing makes someone feel better about themselves than helping someone else. It is the best self-esteem builder I know.

7. Depression sucks. Mine is relatively mild, but I have had my dark periods when it felt like every single thing I was doing was like walking in waist-deep peanut butter, when even thinking seemed like a colossal effort, when I was exhausted on all levels all the time. Relatively benign medication keeps me reasonably functional, and I no longer get into that uncontrolable downward spiral. I can only imagine trying to live with that every day for the rest of my life.

[shovelhd]

Pfff... I can fill u a whole book to answer the questions the OP is making...

You and me both, brother, from personal experience. The OP can PM me if interested.

I think as an outsider to the family you have limited capabilities. Let them know you are available to talk. Sports and recreation programs are great, if only to put something positive in their life. If something smells funny do your reporting diligence. The bottom line though is that it comes down to the family as they are ultimately responsible. They may be working hard at it already. Parents can often be doing all the right things and bad things can still happen.

I grew up in an era where my biggest concern as a teenager was being shipped off to another country to fight a war. Today's teenagers spend sixteen or more years of their lives going to school and end up working for peanuts in a heap of debt. The pace and pressure that they have to deal with is immense.

[adrock1]

Devastating for sure. I went mt biking and listened to the Smiths.

[seanile]

5. Small kindnesses and setting a good example can have good impacts about which we will never know. You will never know when or where a random kind act will be a life-changer, or even a life-saver, for someone else.

1stly, well done with #3, very, very good approach.
re: what i quoted..yes. an important fond memory for me is sitting on a subway bench watching the trains go by, in a really ···· place in my mind..and a kid about my age stumbling back from the bar with his friends sees me, stops, approaches me and simply asks, "hey man, you doing alright?" it was shocking at that point..and still is a little shocking because what drunk kid having a good time with his friends pays any attention to someone sitting on a bench they're passing? that was 5 years ago, definitely left a mark on me.

[firerescuefin]

Some random thoughts that came to me while reading the posts.

1. My sense (and it is only a sense - I have no data to back it up) is that teen suicide (and suicide in general) is not happening at a greater rate than in prior years or generations, but it is more openly discussed and analyzed. That increased openness is a good thing, but it sometimes makes it feel like the scope of the problem is worse than I suspect it actually is. That is one hell of a lot better than ignoring a problem that is bigger than we want to believe.

2. 7th through 9th or 10th grade is a terrible time to be alive for just about everyone. You are no longer a "little kid," but you are not yet an adult or even full-fledged teenager, hormones are kicking in, and life no longer makes any sense at all. And kids can be unspeakably cruel to each other, sometimes without even meaning to be. 'Twas ever thus, which I say that not to make light or excuse bad behavior - we as parents and other adults have an obligation to intervene when necessary to stop such cruelty - but to remind us all that this is, unfortunately, not a new issue. It is also an issue that will never go completely away in our lifetimes.

3. About all I could do to help my son when he was going though junior high was listen, try to empathize, try to make him feel loved and able to talk to me or his Mom, and assure him that everyone was feeling the same sense of upheaval and insecurity that he was. Everyone. Even the "cool" kids. Maybe especially the "cool" kids. And most certainly his dad when he was that age. The only difference was that he could see and hear what was going on in his head and he could not see or hear what was going on in other kids' heads. I also told him that I knew that what I was telling him was not going to make everything better, but that at least he could know that he was not alone or somehow "weird." And that things would get better, however slowly. Fortunately, for most 12 and 13 and 14 years olds, things really do get better.

4. However much we want to identify and fix the problems of those to whom we are close, we almost never really can. The person has to do that themselves. We can listen, we can make sure they know we love and value them, we can support them when and how we can. But we can't fix them. That is a really sucky truth, but it is a truth.

5. Small kindnesses and setting a good example can have good impacts about which we will never know. You will never know when or where a random kind act will be a life-changer, or even a life-saver, for someone else.

6. In my experience, nothing makes someone feel better about themselves than helping someone else. It is the best self-esteem builder I know.

7. Depression sucks. Mine is relatively mild, but I have had my dark periods when it felt like every single thing I was doing was like walking in waist-deep peanut butter, when even thinking seemed like a colossal effort, when I was exhausted on all levels all the time. Relatively benign medication keeps me reasonably functional, and I no longer get into that uncontrolable downward spiral. I can only imagine trying to live with that every day for the rest of my life.

Great post. Really enjoy the perspectives that are brought to the table and shared (on a myriad of topics...way beyond bikes). Much of the reason why I like coming here.

[giverdada]

this is what i wrote and then spoke to my older classes the next day:

i yelled at my kids last night. two little girls, the most wonderful treasures in my world, were driving me nuts and not getting to bed fast enough at the end of such a day that would only end when their eyes closed to dream. i was too tired to get into hurtful words. i was too tired to be patient. so i sat, and i yelled.

when my knee was hurting for so many weeks and none of the therapists in the city could fix it, i finally got in touch with the best healer i know, and she told me one true thing: find where it hurts, and turn into the pain. you see, the tension arises because something is pulling on something else, maybe twenty other somethings, and somewhere along the way the pulling is too much so it hurts. turn toward the hurt. relieve the tension. the hurt will go away.

standing in front of you every day and trying to be worth your while is a nearly impossible task. i struggle, usually in silence, while trying to help you along to a better version of yourself. i hope all of you moving together will somehow rub off on me a bit and that maybe i'll be a bit better by the end of it too. the most important part of this whole deal is that i hope. my brother once told me that he did not hope, not at all, because he thought 'hope' was the same as 'wish' and wish was the opposite of work and he'd be damned if he wasn't going to get the things he wanted without earning them through work. it hurt me to hear him eradicate hope. so i worked to clarify the difference between the two words. hope is what makes us live and alive. wish is a frivolous want that falls far short of having a reason to breathe.

you and all that you will be, are part of my reason to breathe.

(no pressure)

a girl asked me yesterday if i had heard about madeline. i had not. i still know next to nothing about her save the heart-wrenching vagueness of her obituary, or my own opinion that no one should have to have an obituary when they're only fifteen.

each day the routine remains much the same. we meet deadlines and adhere to schedules and make appointments just in time. we yell at our friends and our parents and our families and anyone else we love. we read and write and do math that makes no sense. we practice and then practice more. and all of this is a wondrous miracle. that we can have minds inside bodies with beating hearts that can love others'; that we can be aware of time and waste it or make it; that our time can be cut short, whether on our clocks or those of the ones we love; this is all a miracle, and none of it makes any goddam sense. because balance never has.

i may not propose a solution here, friends. i know no answers, hold no clues. i'm lucky to be here, i'm lucky to look at you and know just a scratch of you, and i have no idea how this miracle works. but if there's something out of balance, if you're wondering what's next and if there is anything next and whether anyone gives a ···· about you, know that i do, and a ton of other better-informed, better-resourced, and better-looking people give a ···· about you too. we're not trying to reach perfection here, friends. we're just trying to stay up. turn into the hurt. release it.

[Kirk007]

What I think is also sad are the kids you hear about that commit suicide due to cyber bullying like on Facebook. That site is the biggest waste of one's time. In theory it's great but the reality is it's a first world problem waiting to happen. It's too bad the parent's of some of those kids couldn't have fostered an interest in some kind of art or trade/skill in the child. Then possibly the now dead kid maybe so engrossed with what they are creating that they could care less about what others thought of them. I just figure the parents of said kids were too self involved to be bothered unfortunately and perhaps not very bright to begin with. It's a complex issue.

I've read your posts here and have to ask - do you have kids? Raising an independent minded kid, which is what I set out to do - someone who could and would think for themselves and be able to take care of themselves was the most profound, difficult and eye opening thing I've ever done. A few lessons learned along the way: Nature kicks the ···· out of nurture. People's lives are their own. We don't control them. Kids after a certain age will make choices, and their peers are the strongest influence not their parents, and we don't control their all of their choices (unless you choose to be a hyper controlling parent and your kid lets you get away with it - circumstances that I believe have other bad unintended consequences). Really, do you think you have the power to keep a teenager from doing something like being on FacebooK?? We have influence certainly, but after a point I think we all just hold on tight and hope.

From what I've witnessed, kids reboot multiple times in these years - the changes and maturation have been remarkable (sometimes amusing and other times out loud funny to see the changes) and kids change (or not) at different times and on different schedules that society tries to dictate. Given all the rewiring that we now know is going on in young persons minds in general, never mind the brain chemistry associated with depression and the social element, I think that in most cases it is unfair to suggest that another person, like a kid's parents, are at the root cause of a suicide. Certainly the choices we make as parents may have an impact, for better or worse, but in general I believe that nurture works at the margins.

Some of the other comments by our younger members here have been profound and are good reminders of what it is like to go through the teen years, and I agree that need to feel needed and valued is really, really important. I would hope that every child receives that from their parents, although I am sure that some don't. But even that parental support may not be enough.

I am thankful that my son has mostly passed through this gauntlet of time and emerged as a great young man on the other side. I know others whose lives haven't turned out as well (yet) and some with siblings of close to the same age who are completely different (better or worse) and I have a hard time correlating the different outcome with parenting.

[Kirk007]

this is what i wrote and then spoke to my older classes the next day:

i yelled at my kids last night. two little girls, the most wonderful treasures in my world, were driving me nuts and not getting to bed fast enough at the end of such a day that would only end when their eyes closed to dream. i was too tired to get into hurtful words. i was too tired to be patient. so i sat, and i yelled.

when my knee was hurting for so many weeks and none of the therapists in the city could fix it, i finally got in touch with the best healer i know, and she told me one true thing: find where it hurts, and turn into the pain. you see, the tension arises because something is pulling on something else, maybe twenty other somethings, and somewhere along the way the pulling is too much so it hurts. turn toward the hurt. relieve the tension. the hurt will go away.

standing in front of you every day and trying to be worth your while is a nearly impossible task. i struggle, usually in silence, while trying to help you along to a better version of yourself. i hope all of you moving together will somehow rub off on me a bit and that maybe i'll be a bit better by the end of it too. the most important part of this whole deal is that i hope. my brother once told me that he did not hope, not at all, because he thought 'hope' was the same as 'wish' and wish was the opposite of work and he'd be damned if he wasn't going to get the things he wanted without earning them through work. it hurt me to hear him eradicate hope. so i worked to clarify the difference between the two words. hope is what makes us live and alive. wish is a frivolous want that falls far short of having a reason to breathe.

you and all that you will be, are part of my reason to breathe.

(no pressure)

a girl asked me yesterday if i had heard about madeline. i had not. i still know next to nothing about her save the heart-wrenching vagueness of her obituary, or my own opinion that no one should have to have an obituary when they're only fifteen.

each day the routine remains much the same. we meet deadlines and adhere to schedules and make appointments just in time. we yell at our friends and our parents and our families and anyone else we love. we read and write and do math that makes no sense. we practice and then practice more. and all of this is a wondrous miracle. that we can have minds inside bodies with beating hearts that can love others'; that we can be aware of time and waste it or make it; that our time can be cut short, whether on our clocks or those of the ones we love; this is all a miracle, and none of it makes any goddam sense. because balance never has.

i may not propose a solution here, friends. i know no answers, hold no clues. i'm lucky to be here, i'm lucky to look at you and know just a scratch of you, and i have no idea how this miracle works. but if there's something out of balance, if you're wondering what's next and if there is anything next and whether anyone gives a ···· about you, know that i do, and a ton of other better-informed, better-resourced, and better-looking people give a ···· about you too. we're not trying to reach perfection here, friends. we're just trying to stay up. turn into the hurt. release it.

Very nicely done.

[Drmojo]

I am a psychiatrist.
Yup, I said it
I have so many thoughts about this thread, I would not know where to start.
As a painfully slow typist, I will offer this:
any other psyclothymic shrinks here?
feel free to pm or email me for ideas, resources and my very limited wisdom on all things BRAIN
thanks,
Dr. Mojo:banana:

[gemship]

I've read your posts here and have to ask - do you have kids? Raising an independent minded kid, which is what I set out to do - someone who could and would think for themselves and be able to take care of themselves was the most profound, difficult and eye opening thing I've ever done. A few lessons learned along the way: Nature kicks the ···· out of nurture. People's lives are their own. We don't control them. Kids after a certain age will make choices, and their peers are the strongest influence not their parents, and we don't control their all of their choices (unless you choose to be a hyper controlling parent and your kid lets you get away with it - circumstances that I believe have other bad unintended consequences). Really, do you think you have the power to keep a teenager from doing something like being on FacebooK?? We have influence certainly, but after a point I think we all just hold on tight and hope.

From what I've witnessed, kids reboot multiple times in these years - the changes and maturation have been remarkable (sometimes amusing and other times out loud funny to see the changes) and kids change (or not) at different times and on different schedules that society tries to dictate. Given all the rewiring that we now know is going on in young persons minds in general, never mind the brain chemistry associated with depression and the social element, I think that in most cases it is unfair to suggest that another person, like a kid's parents, are at the root cause of a suicide. Certainly the choices we make as parents may have an impact, for better or worse, but in general I believe that nurture works at the margins.

Some of the other comments by our younger members here have been profound and are good reminders of what it is like to go through the teen years, and I agree that need to feel needed and valued is really, really important. I would hope that every child receives that from their parents, although I am sure that some don't. But even that parental support may not be enough.

I am thankful that my son has mostly passed through this gauntlet of time and emerged as a great young man on the other side. I know others whose lives haven't turned out as well (yet) and some with siblings of close to the same age who are completely different (better or worse) and I have a hard time correlating the different outcome with parenting.

Oh no...being put on the defensive again:bike: Boy do I feel like an idiot for putting my two cents in :p

OK...I don't have kids but the heading of this thread is "The kids these days" and regarding that I describe my beef with the kids these days. However I realize looking back on it that I really put my foot in my mouth when we are talking about kids that are at a point of total hopelessness very well due to chemical imbalance and take their life.

I certainly don't think kids should be slaves to work as if that is salvation. However I do think that if kids today have some real passion which I don't think comes from wasting time on Facebook they may have a chance and hopefully with some self esteem. I do think that hard work/passion in any endeavor can really enhance one's self esteem.

[shovelhd]

I've read your posts here and have to ask - do you have kids? Raising an independent minded kid, which is what I set out to do - someone who could and would think for themselves and be able to take care of themselves was the most profound, difficult and eye opening thing I've ever done. A few lessons learned along the way: Nature kicks the ···· out of nurture. People's lives are their own. We don't control them. Kids after a certain age will make choices, and their peers are the strongest influence not their parents, and we don't control their all of their choices (unless you choose to be a hyper controlling parent and your kid lets you get away with it - circumstances that I believe have other bad unintended consequences). Really, do you think you have the power to keep a teenager from doing something like being on FacebooK?? We have influence certainly, but after a point I think we all just hold on tight and hope.

From what I've witnessed, kids reboot multiple times in these years - the changes and maturation have been remarkable (sometimes amusing and other times out loud funny to see the changes) and kids change (or not) at different times and on different schedules that society tries to dictate. Given all the rewiring that we now know is going on in young persons minds in general, never mind the brain chemistry associated with depression and the social element, I think that in most cases it is unfair to suggest that another person, like a kid's parents, are at the root cause of a suicide. Certainly the choices we make as parents may have an impact, for better or worse, but in general I believe that nurture works at the margins.

Some of the other comments by our younger members here have been profound and are good reminders of what it is like to go through the teen years, and I agree that need to feel needed and valued is really, really important. I would hope that every child receives that from their parents, although I am sure that some don't. But even that parental support may not be enough.

I am thankful that my son has mostly passed through this gauntlet of time and emerged as a great young man on the other side. I know others whose lives haven't turned out as well (yet) and some with siblings of close to the same age who are completely different (better or worse) and I have a hard time correlating the different outcome with parenting.

Very, very well put. Our (Mrs. Shovel and I, Dave and I aren't a thing anymore :)) philosophy has always been to set up the guard rails and let them figure it out for themselves. It's kind of like a pinball game. Sometimes the parents have to be the flippers. The goal is to keep the ball in play as long as possible, and when it drops through the chute, to blast it back into play again. Kids are going to make mistakes, bad choices, wrong turns. I count myself fortunate to have two kids that have overcome significant obstacles, rebounded from poor choices, and are building lives that make me proud.

[gemship]

Another reason why I brought up Facebook is because I watch the local new avidly. Mostly for the weather although there are a number of females employed to broadcast news on NECN and FOX25 that get my blood pumping:banana: Of course I waste time waiting for that weather report but it's not my fault they are on a program to have my burn more electricity. So anyways it's rare you hear about a kid committing suicide but the few times it's been aired it's always regarding some bullying on Facebook. Just Say'in.

[rePhil]

Giverdada, I don't know if you saw this. AFSP offers a "toolkit" that's available to schools.

https://www.afsp.org/preventing-suicide/our-education-and-prevention-programs/programs-for-teens-and-young-adults/after-a-suicide-a-toolkit-for-schools

[misterha]

I think I'd like to add my 2 cent into this as a "millenial" and with someone very dear to me going through depression throughout her younger years, still is, and probably will live with it through the rest of her life.

Base solely on my experience and numerous things I've read to understand depression better, I think part of the struggles and frustration of someone living with depression is the general public perception of it. They feel as if they should be ashamed for who they are and how they think. They know they should be happy for what they have and know that there are others in the world who has it much worse in life but there is something blocking that logic and is just engulf by sadness. They become worry and frustrating of why they just can't be normal like everyone else but in fact they shouldn't hide their depression because it is just part of who they are just like someone who is born with poor eyesight. I hope that make sense.

I'm glad to see such a positive response in this thread.

[seanile]

would hope that every child receives that from their parents, although I am sure that some don't. But even that parental support may not be enough.
I have a weird perspective about this. My parents were fantastic and supportive of me at every corner. But, to be honest, the "unconditional" love of a parent seems ...ingenuine because of the "unconditional" part. When someone values you, even when they have the option not to, which a parent really doesnt, then you know that they care about YOU for who you are.
Of course.. Thats very much a catch 22 for the parent if i think about it.

[giverdada]

i was waiting for a hotdog before heading to a botany lab in first year. a third year named phil came up to the stand and, noticing me, asked what i was doing later. i replied that i was on my way to a botany lab, and the hotdog was my reward for going to three hours of torture that night. he was amazed to hear that i was in life sci., a far cry from the third year visual arts drawing class we had just left. he asked why i was in science. i said i was going to be a doctor. he said i should do art instead. he said my stuff was good.

phil didn't owe me anything. he didn't love me unconditionally. he had no vested interest in me or my life or my art or my career. we are a bit screwed, as parents, for the unconditional love bit and all the things we will ever say that will be specifically discounted for it. seanile knows.

in terms of depression and first world problems and hard work as a good fix, gemship, i know just what you're saying. when i was first told about a new initiative in the school board to actively address mental health in the classroom and in student relationships, etc., i had little patience for it. i saw it as a first world problem, something kids with all the privileges of north america have time to sit around and create for themselves, whether on facebook or instagram or snapchat or i-younameit. i thought if the kids had something to really confront, they would confront it and not invent things to have problems about. i was utterly wrong. and i was wrong about work fixing everything.

i still think good, hard, honest work fixes a lot of things. and i still think it is largely absent in kids' worlds these days. (many of my current youth are overprivileged and underemployed.) i do not think that depression is an invented problem, however, and although it may manifest as prevalent in societies of privilege, this is likely more akin to cancer or anti-pollution laws - it's just that societies of privilege live long enough to succumb to and have awareness of these universal problems. (it's unlikely you'll live long enough to die of cancer when you're a child soldier.) i also think it's like concussions - we know more so we're finding more instances of concussions and depression and other things that used to be buried in scientific and social ignorance. even the dialogue about these things is an enormous step forward. maybe we could talk about depression/mental health while digging the ditch or heaving the hay. maybe the thing that's missing isn't the work itself but the thinking and talking that goes with it.

hell, let's ride bikes...

[seanile]

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/07/how-to-land-your-kid-in-therapy/308555/

i found this link a long time ago, and your post's latter points reminded me of it, and it definitely hits a few points spoken about earlier:
"I started getting more patients like her. Sitting on my couch were other adults in their 20s or early 30s who reported that they, too, suffered from depression and anxiety, had difficulty choosing or committing to a satisfying career path, struggled with relationships, and just generally felt a sense of emptiness or lack of purpose—yet they had little to quibble with about Mom or Dad.
...
Was it possible these parents had done too much?
...
Could it be that by protecting our kids from unhappiness as children, we’re depriving them of happiness as adults?
...
If kids can’t experience painful feelings, Kindlon told me when I called him not long ago, they won’t develop “psychological immunity.”"

i'll point out, this article isn't strictly about depression, it's about therapy and about people who were raised and sheltered from the experiential and necessary pains of life, pain that is good for emotional growth. and this results in an inability to manage sadness and anxiety as an acceptable emotion because the need for happiness and comfort was so stressed as children. whenever an emotion other than happiness is felt, they don't know how to react, and ultimately panic. participation trophies...horrible, horrible idea.

[staggerwing]

This thread is personally painful.

Don't really have enough in me to start at the beginning. Suffice to say, we have a young adult son, that had his first DSM manual diagnosis in 4th grade, and with a couple understanding teachers, some support, and structure, things rose to the level of OK. In high school, even with support, he began to color outside of the lines a little too much for polite society and began his ongoing interaction with "the system." He now has a couple more DSM diagnoses, including depression.

Some points of ongoing frustration. Unlike most patients with acute, or even chronic conditions, those with mental issues are often unwilling or unable to advocate for treatment. If all you are wearing is rose colored glasses, who is to say the sky isn't pink.

Patient protections are such that it is almost impossible to gain any leverage against troubled individuals, unless they break the law, and that point, you start swirling around the justice system. It gets much more difficult after their 18th birthday. By some cruel twist of fate, late adolescence is often a time where some of the more serious issues are manifested. If you are lucky, there might be mental health component tie-in, but everything moves very, very, very slowly. It is actually worse for my kid because he has always tested well, from an intelligence standpoint, and can hold a conversation, if prompted. Traditional social structures and interactions mystify him.

As a country, we simply don't want to deal with mental health issues, unless the beans hit the fan, then jail is our answer. My wife and I are mid-level cogs in the local medical health system. She is in direct patient care while I hang around a research lab. Regardless, we are both reasonably well compensated, long term employees, with supposedly "good" insurance. Guess what, ongoing coverage for significant, chronic mental health conditions, other than generic medicines and a quarterly dosing checkup, is essentially zero. To be sure, the way things currently operated, there aren't pockets deep enough for continuing care. However, the societal cost of continued non-care is also high, but easier to hide in the cracks and ignore. Untreated adults with psychiatric issues are often labeled "criminal."

To make matters worse, on the 10th of February, my son and twin daughters had to experience the deep pain of learning a person in their private circle, a direct neighbor, retired army vet, father of two of their friends, and general all-around good guy, woke up and found his continued existence unbearable. Rob was 42, lived in the home right next to ours, and kept his service piece nearby. His 18yo son found the scene.

I don't know what the answers are, but it would be nice to at least begin the discussion.

[rugbysecondrow]

I didn't read all the responses, but I have a few thoughts:

There is a culture of inaccurate sharing and over comparing of oneself to others. Adults do it all the time on FB, Instagram and elsewhere, where they posit the best 5% of their life and market it as a 100% representation of themselves. I think a great deal of people compare themselves to this misrepresentation and it makes them feel inadequate. Am I a good mother? I don't workout enough. I can't afford a vacation, new car, new house etc etc. I don't have a prom date (or fancy promposal) etc. Everybody has all these friends except me. How great are my kids (smart, artistic, funny...)

Here is the truth, folks are in debt to their eyeballs, they sleep in separate rooms from their spouse, their kids are on drugs and in counselling for their parents marital issues, little Suzie sneaks out at night to blow half the football team, Johny is a homosexual and his parents won't accept it, they rent their home and have no retirement etc etc.

This comparison is dangerous for all because it is not true. We compare ourselves to a false truth, we are setup to fail. (I know adults that suffer from it), but many kids don't have the maturity to comprehend it all. It is bad enough when the media portrays this, but when it is our own peers, it hits home to people. I wonder if teens can't see through the tunnel of ···· these false comparisons create. A young person, already struggling with normal insecurity might struggle more and feel more isolated in the era of self marketing and promotion. Feeling less than.

I also think parents have become so driven with their kids, that they have forced a myopic view of life. That there is an ultimatum of sorts regarding highschool achievement. Kids who can do math three grades levels above their own, but who haven't been equipped with the basic life skills.

It is sad. High school was such an insignificant part of my life, and I even had a good experience. I just wish these kids knew how much better it gets. How great college is. How much fun they can have in their 20's. How rewarding it is to get married, kids, relationships etc. That life is what you make it, and you can craft a wonderful life of your own making, not your parents, peers or schools making. It is a shame that they have become so focused on this stage that they can't see beyond it.

*Edit: I have now read some of the responses and I have enjoyed ( maybe not the right word) this enlightening thread. Much of this needs to be said. What I wrote, I don't see it as the sole cause, but I see it contributing to a greater problem. I believe that many have chemical imbalances and medical conditions (depression etc) which drives their action, but I suspect many don't They are just teens who made a horrific choice in a moment where their whole life seemed hopeless due to a temporary issue. I have an 8 yo, 5 yo and 3 month old...how do I teach them to love and respect themselves for who they are, not who I want them to be or who society says they should be? I can try, but I don't know that I can. I can be an example of this, as can their mother, but that might be all I can do. Show love, show respect.

I have no answers, but I really do appreciate the discussion.

[firerescuefin]

I didn't read all the responses, but I have a few thoughts:

There is a culture of inaccurate sharing and over comparing of oneself to others. Adults do it all the time on FB, Instagram and elsewhere, where they posit the best 5% of their life and market it as a 100% representation of themselves. I think a great deal of people compare themselves to this misrepresentation and it make them feel inadequate. Am I a good mother? I don't workout enough. I can't afford a vacation, new car, new house etc etc. I don't have a prom date (or fancy promposal) etc. Everybody has all these friends except me. How great are my kids (smart, artistic, funny...)

Here is the truth, folks are in debt to their eyeballs, they sleep in separate rooms from their spouse, their kids are on drugs and in counselling for their parents marital issues, little Suzie sneaks out at night to blow half the football team, Johny is a homosexual and his parents won't accept it, they rent their home and have no retirement etc etc.

This comparison is dangerous for all because it is not true. We compare ourselves to a false truth, we are setup to fail. (I know adults that suffer from it), but many kids don't have the maturity to comprehend it all. It is bad enough when we media portrays this, but when it is our own peers, it hits home to people. I wonder if teens can't see through the tunnel of ···· these false comparisons create. A young person, already struggling with normal insecurity might struggle more and feel more isolated in the era of self marketing and promotion. Feeling less than.

I also think parents have become so driven with their kids, that they have forced a myopic view of life. That there is an ultimatum of sorts regarding highschool achievement. Kids who can do math three grades levels above their own, but who haven't been equipped with the basic life skills.

It is sad. High school was such an insignificant part of my life, and I even had a good experience. I just wish these kids knew how much better it gets. How great college is. How much fun they can have in their 20's. How rewarding it is to get married, kids, relationships etc. That life is what you make it, and you can craft a wonderful life of your own making, not your parents, peers or schools making. It is a shame that they have become so focused on this stage that they can't see beyond it.

Well put...on many levels.

[redir]

It's definitely not a 'kids these days' problem. I went to a small high school and there was two suicides in the 4 years I was there and that was in the 80's. It's definitely a disease but it can also be brought on by environmental factors like for example as some one mentioned harassment. Unfortunately the Internet is both a blessing and a curse as it can be an incredible tool to harass kids.

I really feel sorry for people who have to suffer depression. Not once in my life have I ever had it. In fact I remember thinking as a teenager why would anyone want to end it. I was always looking forward to what came next.

[staggerwing]

...
It is sad. High school was such an insignificant part of my life, and I even had a good experience. I just wish these kids knew how much better it gets. How great college is. How much fun they can have in their 20's. How rewarding it is to get married, kids, relationships etc. That life is what you make it, and you can craft a wonderful life of your own making, not your parents, peers or schools making. It is a shame that they have become so focused on this stage that they can't see beyond it.
...

Your perspective matches mine on the significance of high school. However, a few years back, I went to 25 year reunion for my wife's high school. Most of those in attendance seemed to regard high school as the absolute pinnacle of their time on earth, and wanted to rekindle connections in hopes of recapturing the glory. Mystified me. My "real" life started in college, not that I would wish to return to that era either, and has progressed from there.

My hun and I have agreed to no more HS reunions, ever.:)


...I believe that many have chemical imbalances and medical conditions (depression etc) which drives their action, but I suspect many don't They are just teens who made a horrific choice in a moment where their whole life seemed hopeless due to a temporary issue. I have an 8 yo, 5 yo and 3 month old...how do I teach them to love and respect themselves for who they are, not who I want them to be or who society says they should be? I can try, but I don't know that I can. I can be an example of this, as can their mother, but that might be all I can do. Show love, show respect.

It has been said that suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. At some level, all you can do is to gently guide, and encourage them to find their own path, regardless of peer pressure. That fact you are having this conversation suggests that you will engage your kids on these issues as need be.

As an aside, I do think it is important to keep kids out of the house and engaged in physical activities. Although anecdotal from a scientific standpoint, my son, with all of his issues, was in the best head space of his life, while on swim team. He was never competitive, and as parents, we didn't care about that, but the level of physical intensity required for the workouts, made his brain function more normally. My greatest surprise, in returning to cycling at 40, was the better head space achieved by an energetic ride.

Try some things, let them pick, and encourage participation over competition, but don't let them spend all of their free time tied tied to e-devices. Hiking, backpacking, and camping have all been well received and make for great family friendly adventures.

Over the past 18 months, I have responded to my wifes encouragement to attend yoga sessions. Looking back, it has taught me some useful techniques for finding some inner peace when the seas around are churning. Interestingly, similar principles of mindful meditation and controlled breathing where introduced at the catholic (Jesuit) high school I attended. Despite the surroundings, the instruction was entirely secular. Sadly, today it would likely be seen as the unwelcome introduction of religion.

[Kirk007]

Over the past 18 months, I have responded to my wifes encouragement to attend yoga sessions. Looking back, it has taught me some useful techniques for finding some inner peace when the seas around are churning. Interestingly, similar principles of mindful meditation and controlled breathing where introduced at the catholic (Jesuit) high school I attended. Despite the surroundings, the instruction was entirely secular. Sadly, today it would likely be seen as the unwelcome introduction of religion.

I feel for your situation. Ours has been challenging, but very good friends have a son bouncing in and out of the juvenile and next bounce will be in the adult justice system due to mental health issues. Their other son, 2 years younger, starts law school in the fall -- the luck and unluck of genetics.

A few years ago I found solace in eastern philosophy and mediation as you have in yoga. Recent studies have shown it is effective with kids and anger management. I keep encouraging my son to check it out. The philosophy resonates with him but he hasn't picked up the meditation piece yet. I do think that some of these techniques - controlled breathing, meditation, yoga etc could be helpful for our children; would be nice to see them included in health and phys ed. curriculums.

[verticaldoug]

Some of you may remember this when it happened. ESPN just published a long story about the young woman. Definite read and heartbreaking.

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/12833146/instagram-account-university-pennsylvania-runner-showed-only-part-story

[unterhausen]

It's definitely not a 'kids these days' problem. I went to a small high school and there was two suicides in the 4 years I was there and that was in the 80's. It's definitely a disease but it can also be brought on by environmental factors like for example as some one mentioned harassment. Unfortunately the Internet is both a blessing and a curse as it can be an incredible tool to harass kids.
it's not anything new. The thing that is new is that people can more easily leave a message seen by lots of people. That's a big problem for copycats. Back in my day, they would just go out and have a single-car accident. And if they left a note it wouldn't be passed around for very good reasons. But other people knew and there were still suicide clusters as a result