Why no love for John Degenkolb?

[fogrider]

He just won two of the biggest spring classics and there are two articles on velonews about the railroad crossing...GCN leads with Brad Wiggins last race in SKY...ok, one of them did pick him to win. But yet no mention here on the paceline...why no love for JD? When Sagan was winning, everyone was on the bandwagon and now you guys are asking where Sagan's teammates are and not praising Degenkolb's power and speed...

[gasman]

I watched the last 12 K of P-R and was amazed at his tactical sense and power. He is really on form right now.
So I agree with you. Any rider that can win two big Spring Classics is impressive in my book.

[gianni]

I watched the last 12 K of P-R and was amazed at his tactical sense and power. He is really on form right now.
So I agree with you. Any rider that can win two big Spring Classics is impressive in my book.

+1

I watched the last 20k and was curios if he got free ride. He bridged --SOLO-- and earned every bit. Even when etixx had two in the finale but they had to ride instead of one two-ing due to the chase group right on the heels.

It was super impressive!

[Uncle Jam's Army]

I can't stand his sprinting style. Really herky jerky. However, having said that, he has progressively gotten stronger and stronger each year and Sunday he was money. He read the race perfectly and had the chops to bridge up to GVA and Lampaert in the last 10k.

It seems we might be seeing the successors to Boonen and Cancellara in Kristoff and Degenkolb.

[goonster]

He's German, and the only people less cool than Germans are Luxembourgers, apparently . . .

That reminds me: where's Marcel Kittel hiding?

[soulspinner]

I can't stand his sprinting style. Really herky jerky. However, having said that, he has progressively gotten stronger and stronger each year and Sunday he was money. He read the race perfectly and had the chops to bridge up to GVA and Lampaert in the last 10k.

It seems we might be seeing the successors to Boonen and Cancellara in Kristoff and Degenkolb.

Think you are right.

[Grant McLean]

That reminds me: where's Marcel Kittel hiding?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/giant-alpecin-hope-kittel-can-return-for-tour-de-yorkshire

[CPP]

Could it be his cheese-dick mustache?

[nighthawk]

Could it be his cheese-dick mustache?

I had never heard that term before, but I think you are on to something.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xoV8VJy1mRs/VRY8Ljt5YwI/AAAAAAAAVec/zqsrYuEtjOg/s1600/John-Degenkolb_lucazennaro.jpg

[Black Dog]

Once you get past the stash, he is the real deal. Humble and grateful for all the help he gets along the way. I was really impressed when he said "I was not afraid to fail" in regards to his move at the end of the race. There are so few riders that are willing to lose in order to win. This is the real deal. Also, I love the fact that he was the shadow man to Kittle and made his own way.

[weisan]

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/interviews/degenkolb_cop.jpg

[JonB]

Give it time. There's a transition right now where the cycling world is still gaga over Boonen/Cancellara. They're both over the hill regarding classics and the new poster boys haven't been selected yet. The coronation of Sagan appears to be cancelled with his lack of success in the Classics. With the success of Degenkolb and Kristoff this year, they'll become the new media darlings for the classics. Just give it time.

[hoonjr]

As much as I respect Degenkolb, every time I see him win I rue what happened to Taylor Phinney. He's got a much bigger engine and used to be able to sprint. Case in point his domination of the U-23 worlds winning the TT and getting 3rd behind Degenkolb in the RR.

[Lewis Moon]

As much as I respect Degenkolb, every time I see him win I rue what happened to Taylor Phinney. He's got a much bigger engine and used to be able to sprint. Case in point his domination of the U-23 worlds winning the TT and getting 3rd behind Degenkolb in the RR.

Yep. Phinney had (has?) the ingredients of a badass classics rider. Hope the long road to recovery is smoother than Roubaix cobbles.

2 weeks ago:
"Touched my left heel to my butt for the 1st time in 10 months today. To celebrate-4hrs in the CO mtns w/style kings @JoeLewis1989 and Lachy"

As for the 'stache: From his cop pic, I can see why he wears it. Total baby face.

[FlashUNC]

Degenkolb is the man.

Bit of a renaissance of German cycling. Him, Kittel, Tony Martin.

That whole generation inspired by the Telekom boys is on the come-up.

He's certainly done more in six weeks in the Monuments than Sagan has done in, what, 4 years now?

[wallymann]

Once you get past the stash, he is the real deal. Humble and grateful for all the help he gets along the way. I was really impressed when he said "I was not afraid to fail" in regards to his move at the end of the race. There are so few riders that are willing to lose in order to win. This is the real deal. Also, I love the fact that he was the shadow man to Kittle and made his own way.

this. all correct.

rides in the wind, does the work, doesnt wheelsuck, fearless.

much respect.

[paredown]

this. all correct.

rides in the wind, does the work, doesnt wheelsuck, fearless.

much respect.

x2

That was an awesome end to a very fast race--the solo bridge was particularly sweet. Compare it with Wiggo's attempt and you get some idea of how hard that must have been...

[EDS]

Degenkolb is the man.

Bit of a renaissance of German cycling. Him, Kittel, Tony Martin.

That whole generation inspired by the Telekom boys is on the come-up.

He's certainly done more in six weeks in the Monuments than Sagan has done in, what, 4 years now?

In fairness, Sagan is a year younger.

[Fatty]

He has my got my attention for sure.

[MattTuck]

He's got a great future ahead of him. I'm excited to see who emerges from this new generation of riders as the dominant forces. I always heard his name mentioned as a sprinter, but clearly he's showing that he's more than that. And while I respect and appreciate sprinters' skills, I've never been overly inspired by the approach to racing of: hide from the wind, let your team pull back any breaks, get in a lead out train and sprint for 20ish seconds. It takes natural talent and learned skill, no doubt. But it just leaves something out.

I'll take the blame for mentally lumping Degenkolb into the sprinter's group, and thus not paying enough attention to him. I'll be keeping an eye on him and hoping for more 'strongman' performances.

[Lewis Moon]

Degenkolb is the man.

Bit of a renaissance of German cycling. Him, Kittel, Tony Martin.

That whole generation inspired by the Telekom boys is on the come-up.

He's certainly done more in six weeks in the Monuments than Sagan has done in, what, 4 years now?

I'm not ready to beat up or write off on Sagan...yet. He's doing a lot of growing up these days and I just hope he and his coaches (family, fans, entourage, oligarch overlords...) give him space and time to find out what the hell is not working. If I were him, I'd take Tinkoff for all he's worth, bank it then take a big pay cut, move to a team with engines that can turn crank, and concentrate on my TT power.
...but I am, most definitively, NOT him. Not even on the same planet.

[Lewis Moon]

He's got a great future ahead of him. I'm excited to see who emerges from this new generation of riders as the dominant forces. I always heard his name mentioned as a sprinter, but clearly he's showing that he's more than that. And while I respect and appreciate sprinters' skills, I've never been overly inspired by the approach to racing of: hide from the wind, let your team pull back any breaks, get in a lead out train and sprint for 20ish seconds. It takes natural talent and learned skill, no doubt. But it just leaves something out.

I'll take the blame for mentally lumping Degenkolb into the sprinter's group, and thus not paying enough attention to him. I'll be keeping an eye on him and hoping for more 'strongman' performances.

Ditto on that...and that comes from a (former) road sprinter.

[nooneline]

Degenkolb's post-race comments were pretty terrific. He said that he knew he had to take a chance. Last year he didn't, and he only got 2nd. He didn't want 2nd. He wanted 1st. So he had to go off alone.

This performance - and Kristoff's Ronde performance - both definitely confirmed them as sort of Boonen-types: getting their start as field sprinters but leveraging that toward a more long-term durable high-power Classics rider.

[azrider]

Could it be his cheese-dick mustache?

Post of the day.

[mcteague]

Could it be his cheese-dick mustache?

I actually kinda like the recent popularity of facial hair in the peloton. With helmets and shades, it gets tough to tell guys apart any more.

Tim

[soulspinner]

degenkolb's post-race comments were pretty terrific. He said that he knew he had to take a chance. Last year he didn't, and he only got 2nd. He didn't want 2nd. He wanted 1st. So he had to go off alone.

This performance - and kristoff's ronde performance - both definitely confirmed them as sort of boonen-types: Getting their start as field sprinters but leveraging that toward a more long-term durable high-power classics rider.

+1

[FlashUNC]

When you win two Monuments in a year, you can have whatever facial hair you want.

[jpw]

Kristoff and Degenkolb have performed very well this season. Chapeau.

However, they've had some good fortune along the way. Kittel out with a virus, and Cavendish dropping out with a virus. Then Boonen and Cancellara both being absent from the cobbles. I don't see the same results with all four in action.

[JonB]

However, they've had some good fortune along the way. Kittel out with a virus, and Cavendish dropping out with a virus. Then Boonen and Cancellara both being absent from the cobbles. I don't see the same results with all four in action.

Kittel - Never done anything in the Classics
Cavendish - Can't get over the climbs in MSR, Flanders, did P-R in '11 and DNF
Boonen - finished P-R only twice in the past 5 years. Hasn't won a classic since '12
Cancellara - will be 35 next year. Perhaps he could've done something, but maybe not. Lowest MSR finish since '10.

The next generation is here.

[FlashUNC]

Kittel - Never done anything in the Classics
Cavendish - Can't get over the climbs in MSR, Flanders, did P-R in '11 and DNF
Boonen - finished P-R only twice in the past 5 years. Hasn't won a classic since '12
Cancellara - will be 35 next year. Perhaps he could've done something, but maybe not. Lowest MSR finish since '10.

The next generation is here.

Cav is so terrible at MSR that he was bad enough to win it in 2009.

[JonB]

Cav is so terrible at MSR that he was bad enough to win it in 2009.

And Pozzato did in '06. Goss in '11. Past performance is not an indicator of future results. Cavendish will never win it again.

[Lewis Moon]

I'm thinking Cav will be a gentleman retiree soon. Maybe not next season, but soon. I think he's made his mark and could only tarnish it by hanging on on the back side if the age/performance curve. He made 2.4 million pounds in 2012, he's starting to endorse everything, has a spouse (do NOT click that Wikipedia link at work) and is having to work harder for wins.

[bruin11]

Don't remember who mentioned hiding in the pack and sprinting for the win as blah, but that is exactly what Degenkolp did in MSR. You probably didn't even see him until he popped out into open air with a couple 100 meters to go. How else would you expect to survive 300k and sprint for the win.

[nooneline]

Kristoff and Degenkolb have performed very well this season. Chapeau.

However, they've had some good fortune along the way. Kittel out with a virus, and Cavendish dropping out with a virus. Then Boonen and Cancellara both being absent from the cobbles. I don't see the same results with all four in action.

Disagree. Kittel and Cav are irrelevant. Boonen and Cancellara are compelling points, sure, but even without them I think that this year had one of the densest and most competitive crop of legit classics contenders in a while. There were a lot of riders who had the combination of promise, potential, and form.

Other years, there are a bunch of maybes and questions marks and uncertainty, but this year there were like a dozen hard-hitting players who were coming in hot.

[Lewis Moon]

Don't remember who mentioned hiding in the pack and sprinting for the win as blah, but that is exactly what Degenkolp did in MSR. You probably didn't even see him until he popped out into open air with a couple 100 meters to go. How else would you expect to survive 300k and sprint for the win.

Like this? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL3jQmkj3uI) :cool:

[alessandro]

Once you get past the stash, he is the real deal. Humble and grateful for all the help he gets along the way. I was really impressed when he said "I was not afraid to fail" in regards to his move at the end of the race. There are so few riders that are willing to lose in order to win. This is the real deal. Also, I love the fact that he was the shadow man to Kittle and made his own way.

Turned 26 in January. Won two monuments this year. Invited the team up on to the podium in Roubaix. http://forums.thepaceline.net/images/icons/icon14.gif
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCZltcZWIAAD-Fj.jpg:large

Image from Cyclingpro.net's twitter

[JonB]

Turned 26 in January. Won two monuments this year...

Don't forget he's already won 2 other classics: Paris-Tours and Gent Wevelgem.

[Zoodles]

While I don't think Boonen or Canc are anywhere close to done Degenkolb was a deserving winner this year. Has a great team, fought hard at key moments and best of all was as humble as one could be.

I don't, however, see any comparison to Phinney at all other than Phinney dreams about Winning PR and Degenkolb did win PR. The results don't come close to the hype...and besides I don't like pink pants and bigger hair.:rolleyes:

[acorn_user]

I like Degenkolb. I remember reading an interview with him a year or so ago, and he had a humble demeanour then (even after sweeping the Vuelta the year before). I confess I was a little disappointed to see a hint on facebook that Degenkolb had won since I presumed he just sat in a group and out sprinted them at the end. I couldn't have been more wrong; the move he put in to bridge to Lampaert and van Avermaet was very impressive (good job to De Backer too). He really worked for that.

I do think a generational change is in the works, but I expect to see some more Cancellara and Boonen wins next year all the same. I liked INRNG's coverage of the new riders.

http://inrng.com/2015/04/cobbled-classics-revelations/

p.s. chapeau to Elmiger, Boom and Keukeleire to make it back...

[FlashUNC]

While I don't think Boonen or Canc are anywhere close to done Degenkolb was a deserving winner this year. Has a great team, fought hard at key moments and best of all was as humble as one could be.

I don't, however, see any comparison to Phinney at all other than Phinney dreams about Winning PR and Degenkolb did win PR. The results don't come close to the hype...and besides I don't like pink pants and bigger hair.:rolleyes:

You do realize the last year for Taylor was getting his leg sewn back on, right?

[Lewis Moon]

You do realize the last year for Taylor was getting his leg sewn back on, right?

I'm not a fan of the big hair self styled ladies man persona either, but the kid has three rainbow jerseys and a butt load of stars and stripes. He was on the cusp of breaking out when lightning struck.

[MattTuck]

You do realize the last year for Taylor was getting his leg sewn back on, right?

Further, not to get semantic, but Phinney has won the U23 version of Roubaix twice. so his 'dreams' of winning in the velodrome are also sort of flashbacks. just sayin' If he rides at the professional level again, I would be genuinely happy for the kid. If he is able to win at the top level again, chapeau! Hard to be critical of the guy for not living up to the hype. His last result was national TT champion, which was literally the last race he finished.

[firerescuefin]

Degenkolb is amazing. To win MSR and Roubaix in the same year is unreal. Those races have about 0 in common other than being monuments.

Those that are calling Sagan a bust are making a mistake. When he gets over himself and matures a bit (mentally and physically) he will leave his mark in a big way...Just my opinion.

Phinney was trending up in big way when he got hurt. He would have been slated to lead BMC at one of the classics this year, probably Roubaix. That's saying something on that team. He not only won the TT at NCs last year, but stood a very strong chance of pulling the double. I too, am rooting for him like a motha to comeback and ride at his top level.

[nooneline]

Degenkolb is amazing. To win MSR and Roubaix in the same year is unreal. Those races have about 0 in common other than being monuments.

Those that are calling Sagan a bust are making a mistake. When he gets over himself and matures a bit (mentally and physically) he will leave his mark in a big way...Just my opinion.

Phinney was trending up in big way when he got hurt. He would have been slated to lead BMC at one of the classics this year, probably Roubaix. That's saying something on that team. He not only won the TT at NCs last year, but stood a very strong chance of pulling the double. I too, am rooting for him like a motha to comeback and ride at his top level.

agreed re: sagan. for a while, he kept improving. he just stopped improving. he's competitive in a ton of major races. he just hasn't kept improving and winning at the same frantic pace as before - but he's there. people are calling him a failure because he hasn't swept the monuments before his 25th birthday. but he has 18 top tens in classics and semi-classics in the past 3 years.

Phinney... i'm rooting for him to make a comeback, too, but i hear that it might not happen. i think he hit his cieling a bit earlier, and his promise was that he would keep improving but i don't know if that was gonna happen. it's always tricky to see what early results are actually an indicator for future talent. TT ability is - regardless if somebody develops to be a TT specialist. winning U23 paris-roubaix doesn't seem to be - there are not a ton of big names on the winner's list (and only 1 who went on to win the real deal paris-roubaix).

[ceolwulf]

I'm thinking that Degenkolb was just in the shadow of Marcel Kittel ('s hair) for too long and consequently left not enough impression of his own. That will change now no doubt.

[carlineng]

British and cycling media is so enamored with Wiggo that it's no surprise that his failure overshadowed Dege's win. Degenkolb doesn't have the brash superstar personality that makes for interesting headlines. He seems more like a rider's rider. Someone that the really dedicated fans of the sport can get behind, but to whom the casual observer will not give much thought.

[Zoodles]

Ah..long reply lost...

Phinney is a decent rider and hopefully recovers from his accident, with his positive demeanor I presume he can make a full comeback. However, I disagree his trajectory was ever in line with Degenkolbs, U23s and national championships don't necessarily translate into pro success. In hindsight Degenkolb has seemed to stalk this win for several years.

For prospects, I've enjoyed watching Debuschiere (sp?) this spring, that Belgian jersey has stood out frequently.

[carlineng]

INRNG is fond of pointing out that Tom Boonen podiumed the U23 edition of LBL, to illustrate the point that it's extremely difficult to extrapolate pro careers from U23 results.

[FlashUNC]

Ah..long reply lost...

Phinney is a decent rider and hopefully recovers from his accident, with his positive demeanor I presume he can make a full comeback. However, I disagree his trajectory was ever in line with Degenkolbs, U23s and national championships don't necessarily translate into pro success. In hindsight Degenkolb has seemed to stalk this win for several years.
For prospects, I've enjoyed watching Debuschiere (sp?) this spring, that Belgian jersey has stood out frequently.

How about world titles? Taylor has a couple of those at home. Degenkolb doesnt.

This shouldn't be a Phinney-Degenkolb pissing match -- theyre both great riders -- but to say Phinney wasn't an otherworldly talent pre-crash is just absurd. Barely missed the podium at the 2012 Olympics in both the road race and the TT as, what, a 22 year old? Two time world pursuit champ. Nat'l champ in the TT. Barely missed the podium at worlds in the TT. Winner of a Giro prologue. Top ten at MSR.

All of this before turning 23. And then road nationals happened last year...

[coylifut]

Why on earth are we talking about Phinney in this thread? A nice young man that I hope to get the chance to root for again, but c'mon people, we are talking about Jon Degenkolb, the man who just won MSR and Roubaix at the ELITE level. No comparison. One has two monuments in his bag, the other simply does not.

[fogrider]

Why on earth are we talking about Phinney in this thread? A nice young man that I hope to get the chance to root for again, but c'mon people, we are talking about Jon Degenkolb, the man who just won MSR and Roubaix at the ELITE level. No comparison. One has two monuments in his bag, the other simply does not.

this just proves my point! JD is awsome! winning two monuments and with power to bridge and sprint and folks are saying they don't like his 'stach? and then going on and on a about Phinney...and when Sagan isn't winning, we ask: where are his teammates? Degenkolb is riding well early this year, I'm just hoping he's not peaking too early.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Kristoff and Degenkolb have performed very well this season. Chapeau.

However, they've had some good fortune along the way. Kittel out with a virus, and Cavendish dropping out with a virus. Then Boonen and Cancellara both being absent from the cobbles. I don't see the same results with all four in action.

Imo, same results, with Spart and Boon in the top ten. Both woulda been marked, and with the "distraction," Degenkolb woulda still taken it.

[oldpotatoe]

Why on earth are we talking about Phinney in this thread? A nice young man that I hope to get the chance to root for again, but c'mon people, we are talking about Jon Degenkolb, the man who just won MSR and Roubaix at the ELITE level. No comparison. One has two monuments in his bag, the other simply does not.

Kinda to the point of the title of this thread. I think Degenkolb's 2 recent victories speaks volumes. I like Taylor, know Taylor, have worked on his bikes but....

[sandyrs]

this just proves my point! I'm just hoping he's not peaking too early.

If you can win two monuments, I think you get a free pass on the rest of the year!

That said, Degenkolb will certainly be a candidate for Worlds this year and does tend to do well at the Vuelta (what did he win, 5 stages in 2012 and 4 last year?), so I'm guessing we'll see a quiet period from him over the early summer and then he'll be back to his winning ways as he builds toward Worlds.

[happycampyer]

Degenkolb is lucky that Lance Armstrong didn't show up to ride the Paris-Roubaix sportive before the race. If that had happened, no one would even know that Degenkolb won the race.

[firerescuefin]

Imo, same results, with Spart and Boon in the top ten. Both woulda been marked, and with the "distraction," Degenkolb woulda still taken it.

To think the race would have shaken out the same with those two in it is a BIG reach. Tactically, the race had the potential/most likely would have been ridden much differently. Not taking anything away from him...and not saying he couldn't have done something, but you can't mark everyone. I'm not buying that.

He beat everyone that showed up...and did so impressively. That's all he can do. Hats off to him.

[nooneline]

INRNG is fond of pointing out that Tom Boonen podiumed the U23 edition of LBL, to illustrate the point that it's extremely difficult to extrapolate pro careers from U23 results.

yeah. and Thor Hushovd was the U23 Time Trial World Champion.

If you're a U23 who's going pro, you have a big engine. and if you have a big engine as a U23 you can win a time trial world champ but grow up to be a diesel sprinter, or win Liege but grow up to be a fieldsprinter-turned-pave-man.

or, to put it another way, in order to be a pro you need to have a huge threshold, which is the same as saying that you need to be able to time trial. how you specialize on top of that is another game entirely.

[GregL]

I finally watched the Eurosport coverage of Paris-Roubaix (on youtube) this AM while on the trainer. Not only did Degenkolb ride a very smart, aggressive race, but his team used great tactics. Before Degenkolb bridged up to the leaders, his teammate Bert De Backer made it halfway across the gap. Degenkolb then linked up with De Backer and worked with him for a time before moving up to Van Avermaet and Lampaert. Working with De Backer gave Degenkolb crucial help at a key moment in the race. Strongest rider + good team tactics = big win.

-Greg

[misterha]

Junior TT champs has always been a good predictors of rising stars especially in the classics and sprinters.

INRNG did a great wrote up about this and its interesting to see all the winners are successful today.

http://inrng.com/2012/09/junior-world-champion-prospects/

So for Taylor, I don' think he's done or have peaked too early for his age.