UCI announces summer disc brake testing in peloton

[Keith A]

Looks like disc brakes will be in the pro peloton soon...

The Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) and the World Federation of the Sporting Goods Industry (WFSGI) have announce that tests will begin this season on the use of disc brakes in professional road racing following numerous consultations with different stakeholders, with the new braking system set for complete introduction in the future.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-announces-summer-disc-brake-testing-in-professional-peloton

[oldpotatoe]

Looks like disc brakes will be in the pro peloton soon...

The Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) and the World Federation of the Sporting Goods Industry (WFSGI) have announce that tests will begin this season on the use of disc brakes in professional road racing following numerous consultations with different stakeholders, with the new braking system set for complete introduction in the future.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-announces-summer-disc-brake-testing-in-professional-peloton

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/the-problem-with-disc-brakes-in-road-racing-is

It's a gonna happen, for good or ill.

[Lewis Moon]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/the-problem-with-disc-brakes-in-road-racing-is

It's a gonna happen, for good or ill.

Another rule change at the behest of the parts manufacturers; "Hey, we need folks to think they need to buy something new...from us!"
Can't you just smell the profits?

[Anarchist]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/the-problem-with-disc-brakes-in-road-racing-is

It's a gonna happen, for good or ill.

It's funny, where it says "technical development" I read "we want to sell all sorts of new crap"

Weird.

[benb]

It'll save a few crashes due to improved braking capabilities.

Then again I wonder if there is any risk of extra injury in the case of giant crashes (pile-ups).

Hard to see it changing the outcome of many races, although maybe.

You gotta be kidding if you think this is worse than electronic shifting.

[oldpotatoe]

Another rule change at the behest of the parts manufacturers; "Hey, we need folks to think they need to buy something new...from us!"
Can't you just smell the profits?

I always heard that Cinelli Spinacchi's were made illegal cuz Cinelli didn't grease the palms of the UCI 'enough'...you can bet there are some 'deals' being made from at least 2 big manufacturers.

[Keith A]

I always heard that Cinelli Spinacchi's were made illegal cuz Cinelli didn't grease the palms of the UCI 'enough'...you can bet there are some 'deals' being made from at least 2 big manufacturers.Interesting comment about the Spinachi's -- I had some of these back in the day, and I really like them.

[saab2000]

It's a bit cynical to say this is only about profits.

I've been in cycling since the early 1980s. During that time we've seen carbon fiber bikes come of age (they first were available about when I started riding), we've seen clipless pedals become so ubiquitous that most riders wouldn't know what to do if they saw clips and straps today. We've seen friction shifters give way to indexed shifting. We've seen indexed downtube shifting give way to handlebar mounted, brake/shift levers. We've seen 6-speed freewheels give way to 11-speed cassettes. We've got electric shifting now and it seems to work pretty well.

Let's see now......

Carbon isn't unsafe. I remember people saying it would break without warning and that shards of carbon would impale riders.

People were skeptical of clipless pedals. Nowadays knee issues and foot problems are largely gone. They were common before good pedals and shoes came out.

Click shifting? People were worried it wouldn't work if a rider crashed and the derailleur got bent. Seems to work just fine most of the time.

Brake/Shift levers? Most riders today wouldn't know how to shift a downtube mounted shifter, let alone a friction shifter.

Disc brakes are just an evolution of technology and will likely surpass rim brakes by so much that in a few years people will wonder why it took so freaking long to adopt this technology.

I think it's still in its infancy and will make the early clipless pedals look elegant. It's coming and that's a good thing in my view.

[FlashUNC]

I always heard that Cinelli Spinacchi's were made illegal cuz Cinelli didn't grease the palms of the UCI 'enough'...you can bet there are some 'deals' being made from at least 2 big manufacturers.

Well, one really. SRAM isn't really a player in European team sponsorship anymore, at least at the WorldTour level.

Very curious to see how this goes.

[Veloo]

That's why I liked my 6500 and 6600 shifters. I grabbed the shifter cables for a more aero profile. Perfectly legal. :)


I always heard that Cinelli Spinacchi's were made illegal cuz Cinelli didn't grease the palms of the UCI 'enough'...you can bet there are some 'deals' being made from at least 2 big manufacturers.

[djg21]

Interesting comment about the Spinachi's -- I had some of these back in the day, and I really like them.

I loved the similar Scott Rakes. They seemed to be much safer that bar extensions protruding forward from bars. Too bad they fell out of favor.

[oldpotatoe]

It'll save a few crashes due to improved braking capabilities.

Then again I wonder if there is any risk of extra injury in the case of giant crashes (pile-ups).

Hard to see it changing the outcome of many races, although maybe.

You gotta be kidding if you think this is worse than electronic shifting.

It'll cause a few because of wee tire patch and really strong brakes.

The long pole in the tent is lack of standardization. Rotor size, caliper placement, axle 'standards' along with rear triangle spacing. I suppose this will be made standard but neutral wheel support is going to be a challenge. I seldom put a different wheel into a MTB that didn't require a caliper adjustment.

Heat disapation, less fluid, smaller calipers, enclosed, small reservoirs, still an issue. Gonna be interesting, gonna be more than a few bike tosses.

[shovelhd]

With all of the above examples other than the carbon frame, an existing frame can be upgraded with the technology. Not true with discs. A new frame, fork, and wheels are required. It's a major disruption and expense. If it goes like cross, expect 4-5 years of adoption and mixed technologies in the field.

[MattTuck]

"If only I had some disc brakes, I could win more races." said no one, ever.


I don't really care at this point. The equipment at the pro level has very little resemblance to what I ride. If they want to use disc brakes and sell some more bikes for their sponsors, I guess that is cool. It will be interesting to watch the wheel changes (especially with neutral service). Maybe they can start riding tubeless with sealant and totally obviate the need for wheel changes.

As I understand it, the heavier disc set up means that manufacturers could potentially do some stuff in other parts of the bike to lighten it, and remain under the limit. Again, see my comments above about how equipment at the pro level has very little resemblance to what I ride.

The one thing that I appreciate is the complete transparency that the article takes saying this is both the manufacturers and the UCI attemping to sell more bikes. I can get behind that statement much easier than buying into the idea that the UCI cares about innovation or that disc brakes will bring huge improvements to how humans are able to ride bicycles.

I have two hopes. 1. that no one's calf is sliced off by one of these things and 2. that no rider or team is pressured into using it by their sponsor, but rather the decision is based on the merits of the equipment. A third and distant hope is that disc brakes evolve into hubs with outboard blades so that races become more like the Chariot Race from Ben Hur. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V40qSZC77ug) That, combined with live on-bike camera footage would really drive up the ratings.

[MattTuck]

It'll cause a few because of wee tire patch and really strong brakes.

The long pole in the tent is lack of standardization. Rotor size, caliper placement, axle 'standards' along with rear triangle spacing. I suppose this will be made standard but neutral wheel support is going to be a challenge. I seldom put a different wheel into a MTB that didn't require a caliper adjustment.

Heat disapation, less fluid, smaller calipers, enclosed, small reservoirs, still an issue. Gonna be interesting, gonna be more than a few bike tosses.

Peter, I agree with everything else you said. I can't tell if you're joking though about the standardization. I have seen no evidence to support the idea that this industry is interested in agreeing on a standard ANYTHING. :)

God help us if bottom brackets or headsets had to be replaced during races.

[bcroslin]

Deli slicers in the peloton! Do you like your meat thin sliced or thick?

[ultraman6970]

This thing wont work unless they come with a standard and hope nobody gets cuts with the discs in an accident.

Can you imagine going 100 km/h downhill and with snow or with rain?? :hello:

[Fatty]

Disc rotors are not that sharp. Brand new or well worn, the edge of the rotor is blunt. I rode disc for 14 years on the mountain bikes, plenty of crashes and crash stories and have never heard of anyone getting cut by a rotor.

[unterhausen]

I can't imagine problems with injuries. Seems to me that if a rotor was going to get you, the spokes would, and that doesn't happen very often. I'm wondering how long it will be before rim brakes are a boutique item

[saab2000]

I can't imagine problems with injuries. Seems to me that if a rotor was going to get you, the spokes would, and that doesn't happen very often. I'm wondering how long it will be before rim brakes are a boutique item

Agreed. I know it's not a perfect analogy, but discs have won the technology wars in mountain biking. I rarely hear of people being injured by discs on their MTBs.

[David Kirk]

Either life as we know it will end or it won't......I'm betting on the latter.


dave

[Mr. Pink]

Agreed. I know it's not a perfect analogy, but discs have won the technology wars in mountain biking. I rarely hear of people being injured by discs on their MTBs.


Yeah, injuries were a dime a dozen before disc brakes were invented. Hospitals were filled with serious injuries. It's amazing the sport wasn't outlawed before they blessed us with disc brakes.

What exactly is the problem here? Has anybody really had braking issues over the past ten years? I can think of ten ways to improve my bike, but brakes aren't on that list.

[David Kirk]

Yeah, injuries were a dime a dozen before disc brakes were invented. Hospitals were filled with serious injuries. It's amazing the sport wasn't outlawed before they blessed us with disc brakes.

What exactly is the problem here? Has anybody really had braking issues over the past ten years? I can think of ten ways to improve my bike, but brakes aren't on that list.

Yes - Carbon rims in cold rain leave MUCH to be desired and since the entire pro peloton is on them I'll bet they would welcome the security on high alpine descents.

If you are talking aluminum rims then there is little to be gained unless you are on a fully loaded touring bike or tandem.

My 2 cents.....

dave

[enr1co]

Agreed. I know it's not a perfect analogy, but discs have won the technology wars in mountain biking. I rarely hear of people being injured by discs on their MTBs.

Disc brakes for mt or road are functionally great- love em'.

I dont think you hear much of rotors causing injuries in mt biking or races as the settings differ and couple things come to mind:

-Pelotons are typically not a part of mt bike racing so high speed pile ups with multiple riders and bikes arent a frequency- the risk of a rotor injury is unknown now but would be an added risk factor in a pile up situation.

-No follow cars in mt bike race to provide wheel changes - you flat or mess up your wheel, the rider works on a self-fix to keep going and finish the course.

Road racing of course offers the neutral support and ability for wheel changes but that caliper adjustment factor on the go is a biggie as the close tolerence/settings is one the features that makes disc brakes effective.

Not up on the latest disc brake offerings but maybe there is already a "quick release" caliper and self adjusting hydraulic?

[Mayhem]

Disc rotors are not that sharp. Brand new or well worn, the edge of the rotor is blunt. I rode disc for 14 years on the mountain bikes, plenty of crashes and crash stories and have never heard of anyone getting cut by a rotor.

I raced mountain bikes for years. That's completely different than road racing. I never went down at 30mph in a mass pile up with bikes all over me.

[brando]

I've seen rotor burns on calves.

[shovelhd]

Didn't Meredith Miller have her calf slashed by a brake rotor at Gloucester this year? At any rate the risk of injury isn't the primary concern. Disparity in braking power could cause more issues during the transition.

[thirdgenbird]

Peter, I agree with everything else you said. I can't tell if you're joking though about the standardization. I have seen no evidence to support the idea that this industry is interested in agreeing on a standard ANYTHING. :)

God help us if bottom brackets or headsets had to be replaced during races.

He isn't joking. Wheels are the best standard we have going. At the pro level (every team on 11spd) each rider could swap wheels with the person next to them before the race and everything would work within reason. Cassette position fluctuates slightly so limit screws would be off a touch, but a few turns of the barrel adjuster (or electric trim) would make the bike shift fine.

Given the current disc landscape, you would have multiple disc sizes and axle standards to work through. Even two bikes with identical standards has a high probability of alignment issues when wheels are swapped.

I raced mountain bikes for years. That's completely different than road racing. I never went down at 30mph in a mass pile up with bikes all over me.

Yep, mountain bike and road bike accidents typically contrast dramatically.I would be surprised if discs create a major safety concern, but I wouldn't point to mountain bikes for proof.

As someone riding steel, quill stems and Campagnolo 10spd, the results of their tests won't impact me much.

[MattTuck]

He isn't joking. Wheels are the best standard we have going. At the pro level (every team on 11spd) each rider could swap wheels with the person next to them before the race and everything would work within reason. Cassette position fluctuates slightly so limit screws would be off a touch, but a few turns of the barrel adjuster (or electric trim) would make the bike shift fine.

Given the current disc landscape, you would have multiple disc sizes and axle standards to work through. Even two bikes with identical standards has a high probability of alignment issues when wheels are swapped.


I appreciate that. My comment was directed not at whether standards SHOULD be developed (they should), but whether the industry is actually capable of developing them (which, if you look at the recent past, is doubtful).

[thirdgenbird]

You are right. The thing is, current wheels standards are what pinned manufactures into giving us common cassette spacing. Going to disc forces a hub change. Now OLD, axle size/type and even cassette width are all back in question.

[thwart]

I can only think of once or twice in the past 7-8 yrs/30,000 miles where I really wanted/could have used stronger, more fade-free brakes in road riding in dry conditions.

But then again, I don't live in a mountainous area.

Still, this seems more about money than anything else. IMO.

[Mr. Pink]

Yes - Carbon rims in cold rain leave MUCH to be desired and since the entire pro peloton is on them I'll bet they would welcome the security on high alpine descents.

If you are talking aluminum rims then there is little to be gained unless you are on a fully loaded touring bike or tandem.

My 2 cents.....

dave


Oh, well, ditch the carbon rims. Solved.

[Mayhem]

So how is a disc wheel built differently? Just wondering.

[David Kirk]

So how is a disc wheel built differently? Just wondering.

Typically disc wheels will have a 2X or 3X spoke pattern to deal with the twisting loads (no radial) and the rear hub will most often be spaced 135 mm to give room for the rotor.

dave

[David Kirk]

Oh, well, ditch the carbon rims. Solved.

Was the word "ditch" meant as double entendre? :)

dave

[firerescuefin]

The angst regarding this move is laughable. Of course manufactures want to sell bikes. I'd bet many of you criticizing the move work for companies that make incremental changes to a product line, whose sales reps market it as a "must purchase". Kind the of the way the world works. I suppose we could all be driving around in the latest iteration of a 1985 Toyota Corolla. I am Ok that we aren't.

If you don't want it (disc brakes) to effect you...It won't. Keep riding what your riding. If you want the latest iteration/interpretation of what a modern race bike looks like, then get it.

I really like my new gravelbike with discs. I have no plans to replace my racing road bike (anytime in the foreseeable future), but when I do, I 'll consider discs.

[cloudguy]

As someone who is happy with my DA7900 group, what happens if or when I need to replace the group, but don't want spend all the effort looking for NOS parts? Will I someday be forced to adopt the new technology, which I'm not looking forward to, since I like the simplicity of installing/adjusting rim brakes? Will I have to buy yet another tool and even a new bike frame to conform to the new "technology"? Having never worked with disk brakes, how difficult is installation and maintenance? Just based on looks, I'm guessing it ain't nearly as easy as rim brakes. In this sense, it seems like a bonanza for the local bike mechanic, in addition to the parts manufacturer.

[bcroslin]

This is all about a solution in search of a problem. It's a blatant ploy to move new bikes and bike components. Reminds me of the gravel-bike fad we're seeing right now. 2-3 years ago those same bikes were called cyclocross bikes but with a tweak here and there it's now an adventure bike for dirt roads!

I don't fault the bike manufacturers for wanting to make money but I've been suckered before and I've learned my lesson. I'm not buying the BS on road discs.

[David Kirk]

This is all about a solution in search of a problem. It's a blatant ploy to move new bikes and bike components. Reminds me of the gravel-bike fad we're seeing right now. 2-3 years ago those same bikes were called cyclocross bikes but with a tweak here and there it's now an adventure bike for dirt roads!

I don't fault the bike manufacturers for wanting to make money but I've been suckered before and I've learned my lesson. I'm not buying the BS on road discs.

With all due respect and then some........have you ever ridden in the high mountains, in the cold rain, with carbon rims? If not then I can see why you would call talk of disc brakes to be BS. If you have and you didn't mind the feeling of the brake pads hitting the rim and nothing happening then you are made of much stouter stuff than I am.

Disc brakes, like most other technologies, are situationally dependent. To the guy who rides his beach cruiser on the strand to get to a bar of surf spot derailleurs are just plain stupid but to someone who rides in the hills they are a near necessity. If the bike is ridden on flat or only rolling terrain and only used in fair weather then rim brakes and carbon rims are great. If the rider wants to descend mountain passes and may get caught in the rain then the rim brakes can be downright dangerous.

Different strokes for different folks as they say. This is why one can get different types of brakes, gear ranges, gear systems, handlebar shapes, tire widths, rim materials........and on and on and on.

About the idea that what the pros use will limit what we can buy.....I think this have never been more untrue. Think of all the tires and rims and brakes and bars and gearing and everything that the pros wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole that you can find most everywhere. The availability of diverse products meant to be used on different ways has never been greater. I've been in the bike biz for over 35 years now and at the beginning you could buy a straight up road bike or a upright 3 speed and that was about it. That is certainly not the case today. Change can be a very good thing.

dave

[makoti]

Disc rotors are not that sharp. Brand new or well worn, the edge of the rotor is blunt. I rode disc for 14 years on the mountain bikes, plenty of crashes and crash stories and have never heard of anyone getting cut by a rotor.

I thought the concern was actually burns from heated rotors in pile ups? Do they get that hot?

[makoti]

I've seen rotor burns on calves.

Guess I should read the thread before asking a question. :eek:

[David Kirk]

I thought the concern was actually burns from heated rotors in pile ups? Do they get that hot?

They can get very hot during sustained hard braking. So if there is a long descent with lots of corners and braking and there is a pile-up crash after a hard braking zone the rotors certainly could be hot enough to burn. The key thing here is that there isn't much mass to the rotor so they heat up very fast and cool down very fast. So just 30 seconds after a hard braking effort and they are way below the burn point.

The typical crashes (overlapped wheels in the peloton and tangles during a bunch sprint) will see the rotors being ambient temperature.

dave

[Mark McM]

With all due respect and then some........have you ever ridden in the high mountains, in the cold rain, with carbon rims? If not then I can see why you would call talk of disc brakes to be BS. If you have and you didn't mind the feeling of the brake pads hitting the rim and nothing happening then you are made of much stouter stuff than I am.

Why would one want to ride carbon rims in cold, rainy mountains? The primary advantage of carbon rims is reduced weight and reduced aerodynamic drag. But since disc brakes add both weight and aerodynamic drag (as compared to rim brakes), it seems to be a zero sum game, leaving no net benefit to a carbon wheel with disc brakes over an aluminum wheel with rim brakes.

Now, if one specifically desired disc brakes over rim brakes for what ever reason, using carbon rims instead of aluminum rims could make sense to mitigate the downsides of disc brakes. But adding disc brakes to a carbon rim wheel just to mitigate the downsides of carbon doesn't seem make a lot of sense.

[Mark McM]

So how is a disc wheel built differently? Just wondering.

In addition to the comments about the spoke lacing and axle length, there are few other differences:

On rim brake wheels, the braking surface (the rim) is always centered between the axle contact faces, and due to the higher pad clearances of the caliper there is some degree of tolerance to the exact spacing of the braking surfaces, so wheels are nearly all interchangeable; on disc brake wheels, there is no universal standard for the offset of the rotor from the axle contact faces, plus the tighter pad clearances of the caliper, make wheels less easily interchanged without brake adjustment.

Rim brakes induce only front/rear forces on the axles, so don't require any additional requirements on wheel retention systems, so standard quick release skewer systems work fine; disc brakes (particulary front discs) can induce large wheel ejecting forces at the axle, and frequently use a more secure axle retention system (such as large lips or through-axles), slightly increasing the time or complexity of wheel replacement.

None of the differences are particularly earth shattering, and may make no difference to the typical bike rider, but will likely have some affect on the dynamics of bike racing, where fast wheel changes can make a difference.

[David Kirk]

Why would one want to ride carbon rims in cold, rainy mountains? The primary advantage of carbon rims is reduced weight and reduced aerodynamic drag. But since disc brakes add both weight and aerodynamic drag (as compared to rim brakes), it seems to be a zero sum game, leaving no net benefit to a carbon wheel with disc brakes over an aluminum wheel with rim brakes.

Now, if one specifically desired disc brakes over rim brakes for what ever reason, using carbon rims instead of aluminum rims could make sense to mitigate the downsides of disc brakes. But adding disc brakes to a carbon rim wheel just to mitigate the downsides of carbon doesn't seem make a lot of sense.

Very good point. I assume the pros want to use them for the weight savings (and since the weight comes off at the outside and would be added back at the middle it wouldn't typically be a wash) and aero benefit. That and that's what the sponsors pay them to ride.

For regular guys like you and I your question carries more weight. I ride in the high mountains all the time and used carbon rims for a few years and mostly due to braking concerns went back to alloy rims.

it would be interesting to see the pros go back to metal rims but I'm not holding my breath.

dave

[Ralph]

Yes - Carbon rims in cold rain leave MUCH to be desired and since the entire pro peloton is on them I'll bet they would welcome the security on high alpine descents.

If you are talking aluminum rims then there is little to be gained unless you are on a fully loaded touring bike or tandem.

My 2 cents.....

dave

Mine also. Where I live, my equipment, for my riding, etc, I can't see me buying a frame for them. But then......just recently a guy showed up on one of our three times a week 40-50 mile old guy ride on a Specialized bike with disc brakes. He really likes their feel, and his like wasn't really about braking performance.

[bcroslin]

With all due respect and then some........have you ever ridden in the high mountains, in the cold rain, with carbon rims? If not then I can see why you would call talk of disc brakes to be BS. If you have and you didn't mind the feeling of the brake pads hitting the rim and nothing happening then you are made of much stouter stuff than I am.

Disc brakes, like most other technologies, are situationally dependent. To the guy who rides his beach cruiser on the strand to get to a bar of surf spot derailleurs are just plain stupid but to someone who rides in the hills they are a near necessity. If the bike is ridden on flat or only rolling terrain and only used in fair weather then rim brakes and carbon rims are great. If the rider wants to descend mountain passes and may get caught in the rain then the rim brakes can be downright dangerous.

Different strokes for different folks as they say. This is why one can get different types of brakes, gear ranges, gear systems, handlebar shapes, tire widths, rim materials........and on and on and on.

About the idea that what the pros use will limit what we can buy.....I think this have never been more untrue. Think of all the tires and rims and brakes and bars and gearing and everything that the pros wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole that you can find most everywhere. The availability of diverse products meant to be used on different ways has never been greater. I've been in the bike biz for over 35 years now and at the beginning you could buy a straight up road bike or a upright 3 speed and that was about it. That is certainly not the case today. Change can be a very good thing.

dave

I hear you. But for the other 99% of us there's no reason to ride them. And I say this as someone who has a carbon 29'er mtb with discs who couldn't imagine bombing a trail in CO on anything but disc brakes. All I'm saying is this is just another way for bike manufacturers to sell new product and if it appeals to you then by all means. I wouldn't fault anyone for buying a disc brake road bike.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

I just don't buy the discs-are-dangerous line. But I do think Mavic wheel guys are going to have a really tough job and more than one rider will get caught out because of the lack of standards.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FlashUNC]

I'm not particularly interested now -- even my carbon wheels work fine for braking around these hilly parts -- but I'm very curious where this ends up in 5 or 6 years.

Once carbon rim manufacturers start making rims that also don't need to incorporate a brake track or worry about pesky things like brake heat, I have to wonder what kind of weight reductions in the rim that may offset the gain from discs themselves.

Maybe wheels won't be lighter as a whole, but no real change in weight with potentially better braking? I could get behind that. Its going to be a very high bar for me to switch though, as rim brakes work pretty well in their current iteration.

[Mark McM]

it would be interesting to see the pros go back to metal rims but I'm not holding my breath.

Carbon rims with aluminum brake surfaces have been, and continue to be available. These generally have more consistent braking than full carbon rims, at the cost of a little extra weight. But they are still lighter than disc brakes. Since the pros are mostly using full carbon rims today, it appears that braking performance is not a primary concern to them.

[firerescuefin]

Carbon rims with aluminum brake surfaces have been, and continue to be available. These generally have more consistent braking than full carbon rims, at the cost of a little extra weight. But they are still lighter than disc brakes. Since the pros are mostly using full carbon rims today, it appears that braking performance is not a primary concern to them.

Disc brakes stop better than wet aluminum rim surfaces. MTB riders have known this for years....and my gravelbike roadbike confirms the same.

Braking consistency in the dry is not an issue with carbon wheels....I've never been on a descent of any length or grade and wished for an aluminum braking surface (in the dry)

[FlashUNC]

Not a little extra weight either. The HED Jet vs Stinger in their 60mm rim depth is about a 17% weight difference. One is full carbon rim, the other carbon fairing over an alloy brake track.

I'm not a weight weenie, but 1400-ish grams versus 1700-ish grams is a pretty big gap, nearly 20% for essentially the same wheel.

[brando]

This is all about a solution in search of a problem. It's a blatant ploy to move new bikes and bike components. Reminds me of the gravel-bike fad we're seeing right now. 2-3 years ago those same bikes were called cyclocross bikes but with a tweak here and there it's now an adventure bike for dirt roads!

I don't fault the bike manufacturers for wanting to make money but I've been suckered before and I've learned my lesson. I'm not buying the BS on road discs.

I dont blame the manufacturers for rebranding cyclocross bikes as gravel bikes. For one thing, "cyclocross" has a limited reach as a sanctioned discipline but "gravel grinding" appeals to a broader target market that wants to avoid interference from cars, having to access special trailheads, highly-technical riding etc. Lots of ppl.

Also, modern cross racing rigs are not the high bottom bracket sort people might automatically assume if they are familiar with cx. So the rebadge invites an unbiased look, even though the bikes are basically identical.

Furthermore, taking my cyclocross bike on "mountain bike" trails/fire roads just a few years ago got a few comments suggesting the bike wasn't going to make it. Those comments seem to have gone away now that "adventure/gravel bikes" are more common.

[firerescuefin]

Not a little extra weight either. The HED Jet vs Stinger in their 60mm rim depth is about a 17% weight difference. One is full carbon rim, the other carbon fairing over an alloy brake track.

I'm not a weight weenie, but 1400-ish grams versus 1700-ish grams is a pretty big gap, nearly 20% for essentially the same wheel.

Agreed...and therein lies where the "race" will be (manufacturers streamlining/minimizing the design)

[Mr. Pink]

Something tells me that there isn't a huge market out there of Freds just chomping at the bit to replace their perfectly expensive and perfectly fine stable of bikes for a disc brake version. Especially the weight/minimalist weenies. I'll bet many are a tad more concerned with retirement solvency.

[993rs]

"If only I had some disc brakes, I could win more races." said no one, ever.


I don't really care at this point. The equipment at the pro level has very little resemblance to what I ride. If they want to use disc brakes and sell some more bikes for their sponsors, I guess that is cool. It will be interesting to watch the wheel changes (especially with neutral service). Maybe they can start riding tubeless with sealant and totally obviate the need for wheel changes.

As I understand it, the heavier disc set up means that manufacturers could potentially do some stuff in other parts of the bike to lighten it, and remain under the limit. Again, see my comments above about how equipment at the pro level has very little resemblance to what I ride.

The one thing that I appreciate is the complete transparency that the article takes saying this is both the manufacturers and the UCI attemping to sell more bikes. I can get behind that statement much easier than buying into the idea that the UCI cares about innovation or that disc brakes will bring huge improvements to how humans are able to ride bicycles.

I have two hopes. 1. that no one's calf is sliced off by one of these things and 2. that no rider or team is pressured into using it by their sponsor, but rather the decision is based on the merits of the equipment. A third and distant hope is that disc brakes evolve into hubs with outboard blades so that races become more like the Chariot Race from Ben Hur. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V40qSZC77ug) That, combined with live on-bike camera footage would really drive up the ratings.

My cantis work as well as any disc set-up said no one ever. Discs are awesome. Have yet to see any disc related gore at a mtb race.

[Mark McM]

Braking consistency in the dry is not an issue with carbon wheels....I've never been on a descent of any length or grade and wished for an aluminum braking surface (in the dry)

But what about in wet conditions - do aluminum braking surfaces perform better than carbon braking surfaces in the wet? Do the pros switch to carbon rims with aluminum braking surfaces in the wet?

Since disc brakes aren't currently race legal, if the pros were concerned about braking in wet conditions you'd think they'd switch to carbon rims with aluminum braking surfaces when it is wet. And if not, then are they really clamoring for disc brakes?

[David Kirk]

But what about in wet conditions - do aluminum braking surfaces perform better than carbon braking surfaces in the wet? Do the pros switch to carbon rims with aluminum braking surfaces in the wet?

Since disc brakes aren't currently race legal, if the pros were concerned about braking in wet conditions you'd think they'd switch to carbon rims with aluminum braking surfaces when it is wet. And if not, then are they really clamoring for disc brakes?

I think that is a logical and possibly incorrect assumption. I've dealt with my share of pros during my bike career and the last thing they seem to be is pragmatic.....sure a few are but most are superstitious and completely weight conscious.

Tire size is a good example - the tire makers have known for a very long time that 25 mm tires are quicker overall (even when accounting for the larger frontal area and aero losses) than 23's yet no one in the pro peloton would go there because they were 20 grams heavier each. Their sponsors are saying that the wider tire is faster and reduces energy use and for a few decades they said no thank you. Pro riders, with a very few notable exceptions, are the most traditional guys out there when it comes to equipment and they for the most part hate change even when it promises to make them faster. It of course changes once a fast guy takes the leap and then every other guy doesn't want to be left behind and he will too make the change.

I suspect that as long as they all have equally crappy brakes they will all be fine with grabbing a handful of not much on a wet descent but once one of them late brakes the others on a twisty downhill and takes the lead the tide will change in a big way.

I think the real stumbling block for the pros will be wheel changes and rotor alignment - this aren't an issue for regular guys but the pros will not be happy to wait for a long time to get a wheel only to have the rotor rubbing away. The flip side is that the makers will need to step it up to another level to assure fast and sure disc wheel changes and this could make things better for the rest of us. The one time where "trickle down" really helps.

We'll see. Until then I will lose zero sleep over it.

dave

[pdmtong]

As dave mentioned, the arrival of discs in the peloton forces the mfgs to accelerate the development/resolution of all the generation one nuances and issues to the benefit of the consumer.

people seem to be focused on the stopping power. dont forget to consider the modulation and the reduction in hand pressure. some of the steeper twisty descents around here have me on and off the brakes for awhile. at the bottom of the hill my hands are tired, and if its been a long day of that my hands hurt.

now imagine being able to stay in control with one finger. yup, I am liking that a lot. just like electric makes it easier to shift, discs can make it easier to brake. huge market for women and youth.

I wont run out and swap out all my road bikes for road disc. but for sure I will have one at some point.

[thirdgenbird]

But what about in wet conditions - do aluminum braking surfaces perform better than carbon braking surfaces in the wet? Do the pros switch to carbon rims with aluminum braking surfaces in the wet?

Since disc brakes aren't currently race legal, if the pros were concerned about braking in wet conditions you'd think they'd switch to carbon rims with aluminum braking surfaces when it is wet. And if not, then are they really clamoring for disc brakes?

I saw several instances last year where Movistar riders were on shamal (full alloy rim) wheels. I don't know the circumstances of this decision, but it could have been braking.

[buddybikes]

How fast are wheel changes? Only bike in our house with disc's are my daughters and perhaps I am just not intellectually tuned to them but aligning the rotors quickly is a pain and pushing the brake just pushes in the pistons. Perhaps just me...

[Pastashop]

Something tells me that there isn't a huge market out there of Freds just chomping at the bit to replace their perfectly expensive and perfectly fine stable of bikes for a disc brake version. Especially the weight/minimalist weenies. I'll bet many are a tad more concerned with retirement solvency.


Actually, that's precisely the customer segment they are targeting! :-)

[gianni]

This is so stupid for racing like many have commented: new engin-nerd product, slower wheel changes, complicated, safety...che cazzo vuoi?

When is the last time you heard a bike racer --worth his/her salt-- complain about braking...(outside of cav).. Seriously.

It makes me reminisce why di2 is so much better, so you don't throw your chain when you are shifting going into a corner.... Silly.

I can't wait to see skinny, waif climbers bike tossing while waiting for the appropriate rotor dia and thru axle wheel change. I won't even bring up shimano neutral support.

FWIW: my next bike will be: italian steel (casati laser), 2015 campy chorus mech and custom 11s tubies (mavic mach 2 cd built by godfather be vecchio potato/ god willing).

Let the games begin.

[jimoots]

There is a lot of talk about disc vs carbon rim performance in the wet, to which I do not disagree.

That said, I would like to tip my hat in and mention that discs are much, much nicer in the wet than alloy rims too.

Add to that discs are a consumable. So you're not chewing out expensive rims (or factory-built-wheels) but a fairly inexpensive item.

The amount of power you can get vs input at the lever is really, really good too. It's not going to win races, but it does make the ride nicer. Switching between my DA9000 brakes and a low-end cable-actuated-disc-brake (BB7 i think) teamed to a rival lever is seriously night and day.

There are real world benefits for your everyday road rider... you just have to keep an open mind instead of coming to the party thinking you're going to have a bad time.

Outside of the CX bikes (I've already signed up for disc on that front), I'm not in a rush to swap over but as the technology matures I'm sure they'll end up in my stable.

[oldpotatoe]

Disc rotors are not that sharp. Brand new or well worn, the edge of the rotor is blunt. I rode disc for 14 years on the mountain bikes, plenty of crashes and crash stories and have never heard of anyone getting cut by a rotor.

How often elbow to elbow with 188 of your closest friends at 35 mph??

[oldpotatoe]

I hear you. But for the other 99% of us there's no reason to ride them. And I say this as someone who has a carbon 29'er mtb with discs who couldn't imagine bombing a trail in CO on anything but disc brakes. All I'm saying is this is just another way for bike manufacturers to sell new product and if it appeals to you then by all means. I wouldn't fault anyone for buying a disc brake road bike.

I wouldn't either..thankfully, since I'm now a 'civilian', no longer in the wacky bike biz, I don't have to

-use them
-sell them
-work on them..

Gonna happen and for a while, it's gonna be really interesting..both on the local roads, in the bike shop and in the peloton..

[Lewis Moon]

I wouldn't either..thankfully, since I'm now a 'civilian', no longer in the wacky bike biz, I don't have to

-use them
-sell them
-work on them..

Gonna happen and for a while, it's gonna be really interesting..both on the local roads, in the bike shop and in the peloton..

My only worry is that the manufacturers will go "all disc, all the time" (this is already happening in cross) and you won't be able to get non-disc frames in the top-line models. Sure, there will always be boutique and custom builders that will make what you want, but that's not the point if you really want a certain bike.
I live in AZ, so the wet weather issue is basically moot. I'm also old, fat, slow and I can pick and choose what and when I ride. Yes, my hands have gotten tired on long downhills, but not enough to make me want to roll a disc the other 98% of the time. I also have multiple bikes and like interchangeable parts.
Discs are here to stay so time to getused to them, but I'll stick to cantis and sidepulls.

[bcroslin]

Something tells me that there isn't a huge market out there of Freds just chomping at the bit to replace their perfectly expensive and perfectly fine stable of bikes for a disc brake version. Especially the weight/minimalist weenies. I'll bet many are a tad more concerned with retirement solvency.

Funny you mention this because the wealthy Fred market is EXACTLY who the bike manufacturers are after. There's a wealthy Fred in my neck of the woods who dropped something like $40k on 3 Pinarellos at the LBS recently. One of the bikes he had built is a disc Pinarello specifically to do 6 Gap on because he apparently overcooked a turn during last years ride and went down. Someone put a bug in his ear about carbon wheels being the issue with braking so he plunked down $12k or whatever on the new bike. Less than a week later I watched him dump it on a curb while coming to a stop on the morning group ride. Obviously it's not rim brakes that are the issue.

If there's one thing you can count on it's Fred's plunking down cash to buy speed, less grams, better handling, etc. because they think they need it. More power to them because they keep the LBS's in business.

[oldpotatoe]

My only worry is that the manufacturers will go "all disc, all the time" (this is already happening in cross) and you won't be able to get non-disc frames in the top-line models. Sure, there will always be boutique and custom builders that will make what you want, but that's not the point if you really want a certain bike.
I live in AZ, so the wet weather issue is basically moot. I'm also old, fat, slow and I can pick and choose what and when I ride. Yes, my hands have gotten tired on long downhills, but not enough to make me want to roll a disc the other 98% of the time. I also have multiple bikes and like interchangeable parts.
Discs are here to stay so time to getused to them, but I'll stick to cantis and sidepulls.

I agree, the market, once again, is going to make up your mind for you. For the type of 'MTBing' I do, a hard tail 29er with front sus and Vs would be fine...but.

Too bad cuz the nice DP brakes today are cheap, light, simple, easy to set up where wet discs are none of those things.

[Anarchist]

My only worry is that the manufacturers will go "all disc, all the time" (this is already happening in cross) and you won't be able to get non-disc frames in the top-line models. Sure, there will always be boutique and custom builders that will make what you want, but that's not the point if you really want a certain bike.
I live in AZ, so the wet weather issue is basically moot. I'm also old, fat, slow and I can pick and choose what and when I ride. Yes, my hands have gotten tired on long downhills, but not enough to make me want to roll a disc the other 98% of the time. I also have multiple bikes and like interchangeable parts.
Discs are here to stay so time to getused to them, but I'll stick to cantis and sidepulls.

This really is the nuts of the whole thing. You will not be able to go into a shop and buy a bike without disk brakes, press fit BB and 2 inch head tube, unless you are shopping in the WalMart bike dept.

If I want a new bike it will have to be a custom order, that just adds time and cost, but will be the only way.

Anyone that argues this is not the UCI getting in bed with the manufacturers to push new sales is dreaming.

"Safety" is not part of this.

Ridiculous.

[Fatty]

How often elbow to elbow with 188 of your closest friends at 35 mph??

Never.

And I was just sayin, they are not that sharp. Checked six odd rotors down in my shop. One well worn, couple new, few others serviceable. None sharper than the backside of a butter knife.

[Mr. Pink]

Actually, that's precisely the customer segment they are targeting! :-)

Well, what do I know, but, in these troubling times, I just can't imagine most Freds just chucking the old stable for a new one just because of this brake thing. It's not as though they can get on the phone and suck 50 grand out of their home equity in a half hour anymore for frivolous purchases. You never know, though. Some people seem to love the idea of dying in their cube, working 50 hours a week until the last breath paying for their stuff.

[Likes2ridefar]

I probably would've liked racing a little more if I had disc brakes.

Once I got past the competitive draw of the sport, I realized I didnt like road racing that much, and a big part of it was due to riding on carbon wheels in huge groups of crazy guys trying to land pro contracts in heavy rains in southeast asia.

it is a huge factor for me stopping racing. one crash with 22 2nd to 3rd degree burns was enough for me...

[mcteague]

Never.

And I was just sayin, they are not that sharp. Checked six odd rotors down in my shop. One well worn, couple new, few others serviceable. None sharper than the backside of a butter knife.

Every time someone brings up rotor cuts I just shake my head. Just take a look at the big chain ring, a freakin' buzz saw. No one worries about those causing injury. Otherwise, I agree, discs are coming, no way to stop 'em. Is that a pun?

Tim

[Mark McM]

Every time someone brings up rotor cuts I just shake my head. Just take a look at the big chain ring, a freakin' buzz saw. No one worries about those causing injury. Otherwise, I agree, discs are coming, no way to stop 'em. Is that a pun?

Tim

I'm not a great proponent of disc brakes on road bikes, but I don't see the rotor being a particularly big danger in a crash either. People have lost fingers in wheel spokes, and nobody is complaining that spoked wheels are too dangerous. I don't see rotors as being much worse than spokes, or chainrings, or a myriad of other pointy things on a bike.

[Likes2ridefar]

I'm not a great proponent of disc brakes on road bikes, but I don't see the rotor being a particularly big danger in a crash either. People have lost fingers in wheel spokes, and nobody is complaining that spoked wheels are too dangerous. I don't see rotors as being much worse than spokes, or chainrings, or a myriad of other pointy things on a bike.

I'm more worried about hitting the asphalt, trees, cars, among other large and unforgiving objects.

[Mayhem]

I'm not a great proponent of disc brakes on road bikes, but I don't see the rotor being a particularly big danger in a crash either.

I don't think the average recreational rider needs to worry about that. But we're talking about discs in the peloton. Where they have mass pile ups and bikes falling on top of and getting entangled with riders.

http://acidcow.com/pics/20100618/tour_de_suisse_08.jpg

[Likes2ridefar]

I don't think the average recreational rider needs to worry about that. But we're talking about discs in the peloton. Where they have mass pile ups and bikes falling on top of and getting entangled with riders.

http://acidcow.com/pics/20100618/tour_de_suisse_08.jpg

mtb'ers managed to survive all these years without much news about rotors slicing tendons.

i've had a few mass starts with around 500 guys.

[William]

I don't think the average recreational rider needs to worry about that. But we're talking about discs in the peloton. Where they have mass pile ups and bikes falling on top of and getting entangled with riders.

http://acidcow.com/pics/20100618/tour_de_suisse_08.jpg

I once saw a fellow rider get his finger peeled by the big chainring in a mass sprint pile up. I wouldn't go far as to say that discs will never be an issue, but I think they'll come in behind spokes and chain rings as far as potential in mass pile ups. Probably a distant potential imo.









William

[Fatty]

mtb'ers managed to survive all these years without much news about rotors slicing tendons.

i've had a few mass starts with around 500 guys.

Come to think about it I have had a few mass starts myself, over 500 riders screaming downhill, sure was glad when that thinned out.

[gdw]

Most of the 1600+ folks racing the Leadville 100 have disk equipped bikes and speeds can get over 30 mph in the first few miles when the pack is one giant peloton. There are always crashes and injuries but I've never heard of anyone getting sliced or burned by rotors.

[Bostic]

My early adoption disk brake Volagi Liscio 1 is just about three years old. Most of that time it has been with BB7 Road mechanicals with Ultegra 6703 or Sram Force levers and metallic brake pads. Last year I swapped them out for the 2nd generation TRP Spyres. A lot less squeal with the TRP's but they never had the stopping power or modulation I was hoping for. I recently put on standard calipers on the bike, Rival on front, Tektro 559 long reach on back. The bike handled like absolute crap and the weight distribution was way off. I'm putting the BB7's back on.

The owner of the shop I frequent was mentioning how well the new 2nd generation Hy/Rd's are and said I would probably like them. Doing the 'lever squeeze' test on a bike they felt 'good' but then so did the Sram Rival 22 hydraulic levers. The Shimano mechanical hydraulic levers had a boat load of travel, which I noticed at a few different bike shops that had bikes with them spec'd.

At this point I'm going to wait and see before spending any more. Hopefully there will be some sort of standard (wishful thinking).

[Mayhem]

mtb'ers managed to survive all these years without much news about rotors slicing tendons.

There's not much news about it but it happens. And road racing is a different animal.

Nathan Haas (Garmin-Sharp): Do you know how hot a disc brake gets under braking? If you crashed on one with your face, your face is going to melt. Keep it out of the sport. It doesn’t belong. Just don’t do it. It’s the dumbest thing ever. The sport’s already trying to go places it shouldn’t. It’s like Formula One. Keep it simple, keep disc brakes out.

Michael Meyer (Trek Bicycles, road brand manager): There’s a big push from the industry. From the media side, it’s a big buzz, especially early on. There’s a big surge from that group. From the riders’ standpoint, we’ve discussed it with them and there’s not too much interest. I was out with some riders, and they didn’t have much interest in it at all. Fabian [Cancellara] rode on the Boone disc [cyclocross] bike, he was interested in it, but not in the racing aspect. The retail shop people, there’s a big push from them, and the media, and the gravel adventure-seeking rider. There’s a big push there as well.

Geoff Brown (Garmin-Sharp mechanic): Now we’re already knackered with the front wheels anyways, because of the fork tabs. So it will add a bit more time, whatever, OK, fair enough. But more it’s just what it’ll do to the guys riding the bike, or the guy next to him. I personally have real fears about it. I don’t want to jump out of the car and see a guy with his femoral artery sliced. If there’s 25-30 guys on the floor, there’s not enough medical staff there to deal with the mess. It’s first come, first serve, the guy could bleed out right there.


Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/08/bikes-and-tech/stopping-progress-pro-cyclists-weigh-in-on-the-disc-brake-debate_341014#ZZ4pBJepXlPXdDtF.99

[ergott]

Since disc brakes aren't currently race legal, if the pros were concerned about braking in wet conditions you'd think they'd switch to carbon rims with aluminum braking surfaces when it is wet. And if not, then are they really clamoring for disc brakes?

I rode my Enves in the wet yesterday and was reminded that the braking performance is no worse than aluminium in the wet. These were old rims, before any of their wide rims came out. I think carbon rim and their respective brake pads have improved a lot over the years.

If I were a professional racer I can't think of a circumstance where disc brakes are better and I have a disc brake bike. The advantages I see (cleaner and less wear on the rims, excellent braking with more room for fenders and larger tires, multiple rim size capability) aren't needed in the pro peleton.

[jpw]

I'm not a great proponent of disc brakes on road bikes, but I don't see the rotor being a particularly big danger in a crash either. People have lost fingers in wheel spokes, and nobody is complaining that spoked wheels are too dangerous. I don't see rotors as being much worse than spokes, or chainrings, or a myriad of other pointy things on a bike.

word.

[oldpotatoe]

There's not much news about it but it happens. And road racing is a different animal.

Nathan Haas (Garmin-Sharp): Do you know how hot a disc brake gets under braking? If you crashed on one with your face, your face is going to melt. Keep it out of the sport. It doesn’t belong. Just don’t do it. It’s the dumbest thing ever. The sport’s already trying to go places it shouldn’t. It’s like Formula One. Keep it simple, keep disc brakes out.

Michael Meyer (Trek Bicycles, road brand manager): There’s a big push from the industry. From the media side, it’s a big buzz, especially early on. There’s a big surge from that group. From the riders’ standpoint, we’ve discussed it with them and there’s not too much interest. I was out with some riders, and they didn’t have much interest in it at all. Fabian [Cancellara] rode on the Boone disc [cyclocross] bike, he was interested in it, but not in the racing aspect. The retail shop people, there’s a big push from them, and the media, and the gravel adventure-seeking rider. There’s a big push there as well.

Geoff Brown (Garmin-Sharp mechanic): Now we’re already knackered with the front wheels anyways, because of the fork tabs. So it will add a bit more time, whatever, OK, fair enough. But more it’s just what it’ll do to the guys riding the bike, or the guy next to him. I personally have real fears about it. I don’t want to jump out of the car and see a guy with his femoral artery sliced. If there’s 25-30 guys on the floor, there’s not enough medical staff there to deal with the mess. It’s first come, first serve, the guy could bleed out right there.


Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/08/bikes-and-tech/stopping-progress-pro-cyclists-weigh-in-on-the-disc-brake-debate_341014#ZZ4pBJepXlPXdDtF.99

Hey, hey, HEY!!! What do those guy know???

I talked to a gent at Campagnolo NA and ya know, those guys and the ones in Italia talk to the big boy racers all the time. The majority are not clamoring for them to not care to not want them. I asked when Campag will have a disc and he said, 'when the racers ask for them'....although they are working on one.

But the sponsor $ drive it, win on Sunday, sell on Monday drives it, not the marginal and questionable 'improvement', considering the cost.

Important to note that although 'legal' in Euro cross racing, where there may be a bigger advantage, most still use cantis.

Lighter, simpler, cheaper.

[aosty]

Disc rotors are not that sharp. Brand new or well worn, the edge of the rotor is blunt. I rode disc for 14 years on the mountain bikes, plenty of crashes and crash stories and have never heard of anyone getting cut by a rotor.

Rotors are not that sharp and it's difficult to be inline with the edge as it's attached to a wheel. Bladed spokes are significantly more sharp and getting cut up by wheels just isn't that common. There's much more risk of getting cut up by a chainring with 53 angry teeth protruding from the underside of a bike.

I can see getting burned by a rotor but large pile-ups happen less frequently on fast descents than flatter areas where the rotors won't be as hot.

I'm not saying it can't happen but it's not a significant enough issue to warrant prohibiting them.

[Anarchist]

Hey, hey, HEY!!! What do those guy know???

I talked to a gent at Campagnolo NA and ya know, those guys and the ones in Italia talk to the big boy racers all the time. The majority are not clamoring for them to not care to not want them. I asked when Campag will have a disc and he said, 'when the racers ask for them'....although they are working on one.

But the sponsor $ drive it, win on Sunday, sell on Monday drives it, not the marginal and questionable 'improvement', considering the cost.

Important to note that although 'legal' in Euro cross racing, where there may be a bigger advantage, most still use cantis.

Lighter, simpler, cheaper.

What is it they always say; Light, Cheap and durable.

Those cantis and dual pivots hit all three points. How many times can you say that with bicycle related stuff?

[Likes2ridefar]

There's not much news about it but it happens. And road racing is a different animal.

Nathan Haas (Garmin-Sharp): Do you know how hot a disc brake gets under braking? If you crashed on one with your face, your face is going to melt. Keep it out of the sport. It doesn’t belong. Just don’t do it. It’s the dumbest thing ever. The sport’s already trying to go places it shouldn’t. It’s like Formula One. Keep it simple, keep disc brakes out.

Michael Meyer (Trek Bicycles, road brand manager): There’s a big push from the industry. From the media side, it’s a big buzz, especially early on. There’s a big surge from that group. From the riders’ standpoint, we’ve discussed it with them and there’s not too much interest. I was out with some riders, and they didn’t have much interest in it at all. Fabian [Cancellara] rode on the Boone disc [cyclocross] bike, he was interested in it, but not in the racing aspect. The retail shop people, there’s a big push from them, and the media, and the gravel adventure-seeking rider. There’s a big push there as well.

Geoff Brown (Garmin-Sharp mechanic): Now we’re already knackered with the front wheels anyways, because of the fork tabs. So it will add a bit more time, whatever, OK, fair enough. But more it’s just what it’ll do to the guys riding the bike, or the guy next to him. I personally have real fears about it. I don’t want to jump out of the car and see a guy with his femoral artery sliced. If there’s 25-30 guys on the floor, there’s not enough medical staff there to deal with the mess. It’s first come, first serve, the guy could bleed out right there.


Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/08/bikes-and-tech/stopping-progress-pro-cyclists-weigh-in-on-the-disc-brake-debate_341014#ZZ4pBJepXlPXdDtF.99

those are stories, nothing more. they arent rational, and are based on nothing but misguided fears or resistance to change. there's always someone who doesnt like change regardless of what it is.

your face won't melt, by the way.

[Lewis Moon]

http://obeyclothing.com/media/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/burn.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BUZfQUTCMAEmsbN.jpg
http://fcdn.mtbr.com/attachments/colorado-front-range/440669d1237350109-hot-brake-rotor-leg.jpg
http://cx.cxmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/2015-cxmagazine-ayee-20150109-masters-40-44-men-2015-nationals-cxmagazine-ayee-img_7242-e_1.jpg

...but that's not the real issue. Cycling is inherently dangerous, but it's the danger to the wallet that truly scares me.

[Mayhem]

they arent rational, and are based on nothing but misguided fears or resistance to change.

If no one had ever been injured from brake rotors you might have had a valid point. It makes no difference to me, I don't race and will never have discs. But I don't blame riders who's livelihood could be on the line to have some skepticism.

[Likes2ridefar]

If no one had ever been injured from brake rotors you might have had a valid point. It makes no difference to me, I don't race and will never have discs. But I don't blame riders who's livelihood could be on the line to have some skepticism.

we are talking about the same guys who resisted helmets being required, right?

[cloudguy]

Yowzer! Nice branding. For me, those pictures make it case-closed, as far as racing goes.

[Mayhem]

we are talking about the same guys who resisted helmets being required, right?

I think those guys already retired. I don't believe there were cases of helmets actually causing injures and being an additional risk at the time.

[thirdgenbird]

your face won't melt, by the way.

Not technically. However, melting is about the best way to describe the appearance of flesh falling off the body after being exposed to hot metal.

[Likes2ridefar]

Not technically. However, melting is about the best way to describe the appearance of flesh falling off the body after being exposed to hot metal.

after descending for 8 miles and dragging the brakes, maybe, which as already mentioned is rarely when multiple person accidents occur.

you understand they aren't hot by default, right? and a few seconds isn't going to make them sizzling hot.

[zap]

Every time someone brings up rotor cuts I just shake my head. Just take a look at the big chain ring, a freakin' buzz saw. No one worries about those causing injury. Otherwise, I agree, discs are coming, no way to stop 'em. Is that a pun?

Tim

Well, yours truly was involved in a crash during a USCF crit and had a few chainring teeth dig into my right calf. Nothing serious…..the cut on my right elbow (from hitting the curb) was much much worse. Two discs on each bike adds risk…..I guess time will tell how much risk.

[Mayhem]

This guy flipped over his bars and his knee was split to the bone when it hit the rotor. I would imagine an injury like this could keep a racer out for weeks and cost him potentially a lot of money. I don't understand how some people could be so closed minded about it to where they totally brush off the concerns of professional riders. I mean, they're coming so we shall see.

http://forums.mtbr.com/rider-down-injuries-recovery/roll-call-whats-your-most-serious-injury-72076-26.html

[Likes2ridefar]

This guy flipped over his bars and his knee was split to the bone when it hit the rotor. I would imagine an injury like this could keep a racer out for weeks and cost him potential a whole lot of money. I don't understand how some people could be so closed minded about it to where they totally brush off the concerns of professional riders. I mean, they're coming so we shall see.

http://forums.mtbr.com/rider-down-injuries-recovery/roll-call-whats-your-most-serious-injury-72076-26.html

thus the testing this summer...

[oldpotatoe]

those are stories, nothing more. they arent rational, and are based on nothing but misguided fears or resistance to change. there's always someone who doesnt like change regardless of what it is.

your face won't melt, by the way.

Yup, just stories, from those irrational bike racers. Ya know, the guys the use this stuff everyday..what do they know??:eek

So why do most euro cross racers use cantis? Irrational fear of new things or something besides wet discs ya know, work better?

[Likes2ridefar]

Yup, just stories, from those irrational bike racers. Ha know, the guys the use this stuff everyday..what do they know??:eek

So why do most euro cross racers use cantis? Irrational fear of new things or something besides wet discs ha know, work better?

why did most euros resist tubeless on mtb's for many years while it was embraced here?

i have no idea.

[thirdgenbird]

after descending for 8 miles and dragging the brakes, maybe, which as already mentioned is rarely when multiple person accidents occur.

you understand they aren't hot by default, right? and a few seconds isn't going to make them sizzling hot.

I completely understand this. I'm not afraid of the safety risks on discs. I only bring it up, because it can happen. The pictures above are proof. You speak like it is impossible.

[William]

I completely understand this. I'm not afraid of the safety risks on discs. I only bring it up, because it can happen. The pictures above are proof. You speak like it is impossible.

I'm sure it is possible, but I would be willing to bet that way more flesh has gone through spokes and chainrings then there ever has been, or ever will be on discs.

The "injury factor' in saying they shouldn't be used is a weak one in comparison to wheels and chainrings imo. The marketing factor is really more of what's going on.












William

[aosty]

http://obeyclothing.com/media/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/burn.jpg


I'm willing to bet money these were caused while stopped and standing next to a bike... and not in a crash.
Ask me how I know.



...but that's not the real issue. Cycling is inherently dangerous, but it's the danger to the wallet that truly scares me.
:banana:

[thirdgenbird]

I agree completely. I've been around cycling all my life and I've never seen a finger get cut off by spokes but I wouldn't ever say "it won't happen."

Getting burnt is unlikely amd not a fear of mine, but it can happen.

[William]

I'm willing to bet money these were caused while stopped and standing next to a bike... and not in a crash.
Ask me how I know.



:banana:


=DOH!! ;)








William

[Likes2ridefar]

aosty i was going to say the same thing.

not only have i burned my leg, i've also burned my finger.

[William]

I agree completely. I've been around cycling all my life and I've never seen a finger get cut off by spokes but I wouldn't ever say "it won't happen."

Getting burnt is unlikely amd not a fear of mine, but it can happen.


Finger, and a toe....though the toe may not count in this example because it wasn't in a race situation (still nasty though).







William

[Stephen2014]

Glad the UCI will be stopping the utter weirdness of not allowing a normal braking system.

[rwsaunders]

I'd be more worried about getting sliced by a crank ring that a disc rotor. My last serious cut in a crash came from a fender.