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View Full Version : Wheelset review: DT Swiss R 460 / Chris King


sweet_johnny
04-12-2015, 06:30 PM
I just built up these wheels and I really couldn't find anyone talking about the DT Swiss R 460 rim, so I figured I'd share my experiences with the wheels. I wound up going with the R 460 because of DT Swiss's reputation for high quality products. The rims were also a great price at about $35 a hoop.

Caveat: The following are one man's experiences and observations, not a scientific study. I am in no way a professional nor a scientist. I teach English for a living, so take the following for what it's worth.

The Backstory...
Years ago when I was working for a bike shop, I was able to score a set of pink Chris King Classic Cross hubs for an awesome price. The first build was to a set of Mavic Reflex NOS ceramic coated rims. I raced them for a season and they were awful. Chattered like hell and eventually the ceramic coating chipped off. Mavic was awful to deal with so I wound relacing them to set of Velocity Escape hoops. I spent days gluing them up only to flat them on the first ride. So, they sat in my closet until a friend asked about the hoops. I delaced the wheels only to have him flake on the sale. So, the Chris King hubs sat in my closet collecting dust...

The Goal...
The goal was to build a reasonably light, everyday, bombproof wheelset using the king hubs that were collecting dust in my closet.

The Specs...
- Rims: DT Swiss R 460 (32h)
- Hubs: Chris King Classic Cross (high flange, pink)
- Spokes: Wheelsmith DB14 (2.0/1.7/2.0)
- Nipples: Sapim brass 14mm
- Rim tape: Pacenti
- Lacing pattern: 3 cross (front and back)
- Tires: Specialized S-works Turbo 23c

The Build...
I didn't really know what to expect with the R 460. After a ton of searching, I only found a handful of people talking about the rim and no one talking about their experiences with it. I wound up going with them because everyone who builds with DT Swiss products seems to have a good experience. The rims are about 10 grams heavier than the Pacenti SL23 (per rim), 1mm narrower, and about $40 cheaper (per rim).

The rims were very round and very true during the build. I was able to get spoke tension up evenly without the wheel coming out of true or round very much. Whatever imperfections in there were in trueness and round ness were easily fixed in the final true.

The rim finish was pretty good. Some of the drillings had some very slight burring that I could feel with my fingernail. The rim seem is sleeved on this wheel, not welded (a bone of contention with some people) and I'm happy to report that it is very good. I could feel one of the seems with my fingernail ever so slightly and could feel it "tic" on my first ride ever so slightly. But, by the end of the first ride, I couldn't feel it anymore. The machining of the brake track is excellent.

The Wheelsmith DB14 spokes built up just alright. Despite rounding down on the spoke length calculator, they were still a little long. (I'll admit that I don't know whose fault this is. The ERD could have been a little off. Wheelsmith spokes could be a little long. The spoke calculator could have been a little off, although I doubt that it was this). There was a little bit of wind up during the build, but everything seemed to relieve itself (tee hee) during destressing. All that being said, I don't know if I'd build with these spokes again.

First Impressions...
They look awesome. There's just something about a traditional looking, 32h, 3 cross wheel... (even more so on a steel bike).

How do they ride? Well, they ride great. On my first ride today, BMW kept coming to mind. They're stiff and quick in all the right ways without being overly harsh. On the bumps, they let me know I was riding over rough road, but then it was done. The best way I can describe them is that they soaked up the rough road, yet remained firm. Not harsh like a Ferrari, not still bouncing like a Cadillac... firm like a BMW.

On smooth roads they felt killer. Just smooth as buttah.

In corners they inspired confidence. I didn't take any corners very aggressively, but feel like I could (and will).

They spin up quickly. Again... not zipp 303 quickly, but they spun up reasonably quickly.

Overall: I'm quite happy with them. I'm planning on switching out the tires to some Veloflex Masters (25c) in the near future and I think that'll make them feel even faster.

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don compton
04-12-2015, 11:08 PM
I have always been a fan of handbuilts. But, I recently bought a set of Williams Wheels for substantially less than a set of handbuilts. They do everything that a set of hand builts will do, but cost half and will last just as long.

Black Dog
04-12-2015, 11:16 PM
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=165274&highlight=r460

oldpotatoe
04-13-2015, 06:04 AM
I have always been a fan of handbuilts. But, I recently bought a set of Williams Wheels for substantially less than a set of handbuilts. They do everything that a set of hand builts will do, but cost half and will last just as long.

Well, I would have a decent wheelbuilder check true, round, dish and stress relieve before riding any wheel out of a box, IMHO. Those are inexpensive because of private label, builder sourced, "Williams' components.

I think if you compare apples to apples..Sourced Asian hubs and rims, then have a wheelbuilder build them, the $ would be similar.

Formula hubs, DT 460 rims, Sapim Race spokes..about the same.

Look585
04-15-2015, 07:54 AM
I just finished a set with 6800 hubs. I was very happy with the way they built up. No problems on my pair with roundness, flatness, or pinned rim joint wonkiness. I like the 'not so shiny but also not matte' finish and the 'very deep gray not quite black' color also worked for me.

They came in right on spec at 462g & 465g. ERD was right on at 596mm.

Tires mounted easily, I tried a 28mm Rubino Pro Tech and a 31mm Cross XG Pro. Getting the beads seated was a challenge at very low pressure, but I started pumping away and everything snapped into place by 50-60psi.

I'd say they are as good or better than any rim in the price range ($40) and you probably need to spend more than 2x to get any meaningful improvement.

oldpotatoe
04-15-2015, 08:13 AM
I just finished a set with 6800 hubs. I was very happy with the way they built up. No problems on my pair with roundness, flatness, or pinned rim joint wonkiness. I like the 'not so shiny but also not matte' finish and the 'very deep gray not quite black' color also worked for me.

They came in right on spec at 462g & 465g. ERD was right on at 596mm.

Tires mounted easily, I tried a 28mm Rubino Pro Tech and a 31mm Cross XG Pro. Getting the beads seated was a challenge at very low pressure, but I started pumping away and everything snapped into place by 50-60psi.

I'd say they are as good or better than any rim in the price range ($40) and you probably need to spend more than 2x to get any meaningful improvement.

Although not a 'bad' rim, I think DT450/460 both better choices than the other compatible rim, Mavic OpenSport. All similar $.

erslah
09-17-2015, 03:49 PM
Just a note of thanks to sweet_johnny and Black Dog for taking the time to review these rims. I bought mine before I found any decent reviews, but at $37 each, I figured it was worth a shot. Nice to know I didn't goof.

Almost finished building the first wheel, very pleased so far. (32-hole XT centerlocks, 2x front and 3x rear; DB14 spokes.)

oldpotatoe
09-17-2015, 05:02 PM
Just a note of thanks to sweet_johnny and Black Dog for taking the time to review these rims. I bought mine before I found any decent reviews, but at $37 each, I figured it was worth a shot. Nice to know I didn't goof.

Almost finished building the first wheel, very pleased so far. (32-hole XT centerlocks, 2x front and 3x rear; DB14 spokes.)

Ok, gotta ask, why 2cross front onna 32h, particularly disc? Just curious.

erslah
09-17-2015, 05:10 PM
Mostly just playing around with different lacing, and I'm fairly light, so I'm not too worried. This is just for my commuter.

oldpotatoe
09-17-2015, 05:19 PM
Mostly just playing around with different lacing, and I'm fairly light, so I'm not too worried. This is just for my commuter.

Not pointing fingers....2cross vs 3cross weight differences is about the weight of a (short) spoke..like 200mm....

Built a few 450s, better quality than Mavic OpenSport..probably for 460 also.

earlfoss
09-17-2015, 05:30 PM
Those rims are durable as all get out but they are by no means light.

I have a set laced up to some DT hubs and granted, I'm a bike racer, but I do notice the extra heft of these puppies on my rides. They handle 28mm tires perfectly and I appreciate the bombproof aspect of them quite a bit. They're what I am currently running for my training setup because of this.

erslah
09-17-2015, 05:42 PM
Not pointing fingers....2cross vs 3cross weight differences is about the weight of a (short) spoke..like 200mm....

Built a few 450s, better quality than Mavic OpenSport..probably for 460 also.


Not doing it for the weight savings, but thanks.

erslah
09-17-2015, 05:47 PM
Those rims are durable as all get out but they are by no means light.


These are replacing Mavic A119s with Deore 6-bolts and spokes that only appear to be double-butted for about two inches in the middle. *Those* are heavy 😕

earlfoss
09-17-2015, 05:48 PM
These are replacing Mavic A119s with Deore 6-bolts and spokes that only appear to be double-butted for about two inches in the middle. *Those* are heavy 😕

Right on! Enjoy the ride, man!

Robbos
09-17-2015, 07:53 PM
I bought a pair of Kinlin 270 s on blow out to lace up to a set of Miche Primarily hubs, but I'm really more keen on placing them to a pair of DT 460s was put off Velocity A23 due to some bad runs ( though I think they've probably worked the kinks out now). Velocity has a new widder (24.5mm) and lighter (415 I think)rim, the Quill, though quite a bit more expensive. And what ever i build has to fit my 7700 brakes for now. I'm splitting ghairs but I'd love if the 460s came in an offset rear. It's one of the few wheel tech designs I believe in. Thanks for the feedback on the rims, there really isn't much out there about them.

old fat man
09-18-2015, 07:31 AM
I bought a pair of Kinlin 270 s on blow out to lace up to a set of Miche Primarily hubs, but I'm really more keen on placing them to a pair of DT 460s was put off Velocity A23 due to some bad runs ( though I think they've probably worked the kinks out now). Velocity has a new widder (24.5mm) and lighter (415 I think)rim, the Quill, though quite a bit more expensive. And what ever i build has to fit my 7700 brakes for now. I'm splitting ghairs but I'd love if the 460s came in an offset rear. It's one of the few wheel tech designs I believe in. Thanks for the feedback on the rims, there really isn't much out there about them.

Kinlin 270's were easily my least favorite rims. Much prefer A23, DT415 (?), Pacenti SL25, even Open Pros. Current favorite though is tubeless Fulcrum Racing One's. Yeah, a wheelset, but they are an awesome ride.

Robbos
09-18-2015, 09:24 AM
Kinlin 270's were easily my least favorite rims.

Curious to know why. Were they too soft for your tastes? Was it the braking? I've heard good things in general about the 270's especially for their price. I've heard more than a few horror stories about A23's but as I mentionned previously and in all fairness, I think Velocity has got back on top of things.

I'm on the cusp of selling the 270's anyways to pick up a pair of 460's or, depending on if I can get a deal, some Velocity Quills.