Advice between 3 gravel bikes re: braking -- long reach calipers, cantis, discs

[mhespenheide]

I'm trying to decide whether to change out for a new gravel/all-road bike. I currently have two that kind-of fit the bill: a LeMond Poprad that rides wonderfully but is a little heavy/sluggish, and a Specialized S-Works Tricross that has a high cyclocross-style bottom bracket that just doesn't feel right on asphalt.

I'm convinced that I want a 70-75mm bottom bracket drop. I've found three models with 105-ish level parts that I'm interested in that have that much drop in a XL/XXL size (I'm 6'4"):
1. An older Redline Conquest Pro (used, $775) with canti's -- but could switch to v-brakes, obviously. Unknown clearance; probably up to 35's or 38's.
2. Last year's Kona Zone -- aluminum, just the "Zone" (2014 model year, demo closeout, $1050) with long-reach caliper brakes. Should fit up to 32's.
3. The current Diamondback Haanjo (on sale at REI, with a couple of REI gift certificates to bring it down to ~$900) with disc brakes. Should fit up to 700x40's.
The only one that I can get a weight on is the Haanjo, listed by REI as 23 pounds (!). Really? Should I trust that figure? It seems like the Conquest and Zone should easily be 18-19 pounds instead, leaving a 4-5 pound difference!? Are discs really that heavy? Are they that awesome? Is the weight penalty worth it to be able to run truly wide tires?

I wonder whether I'm really going to see that much of a change from my road bike with 28's to the Zone with 32's, or from the LeMond to the Diamondback with a similar weight. On the other hand, the roads are crappy enough around here that the Zone with 32's might become my everyday ride...

Any thoughts? On the one hand, since I don't yet know what I really want, I should hold off. On the other hand, [1] the REI deal is closing imminently and [2] it would be nice to go for a net n-1.

Thanks for letting me ponder aloud.

[Ken Robb]

How much does the Poprad weigh? So much that its weight makes it feel sluggish? Does that mean slow to accelerate, slow to turn, both, something else?
At 6'4" you must weigh quite a bit yourself so a couple of pounds more or less between bikes can't make much difference for the kind of riding you describe, can it? As far as that goes, I wouldn't assume that stated weights for bikes are always accurate anyway because I have seen plenty of surprises when we hung bikes from a scale.

I prefer bikes that tend toward stability rather than quick turning especially when riding in gravel or other loose surfaces. This generally means longer chainstays and relaxed angles. My favorite bikes have 75-80 mm of BB drop too. They are less prone to having the front wheel dig in and wash out when I get in deep stuff.

Are the brakes on the Poprad inadequate for your riding? Would discs allow/encourage you to ride places that cantis don't?

Could you try different wheels and/or tires to see if that might be all you need?

[Jgrooms]

Your Tricross in a 56cm is pretty easy a 17 lb bike. Less than aggressive angles & one of the longest CS / WB measurements running. & need clearance? 43mm plus. I don't believe you'll notice - what a 3-5mm drop diff? You have the bike that meets everything you listed.

[saab2000]

I had a Redline Conquest with good cantilever brakes. They worked but weren't that great. It was a single-speed bike. Then I got a Hampsten single-speed to replace the Redline. It has Shimano long reach brakes. I don't know which model but the non-branded ones that are sort of 105/Ultegra level brakes. Good brakes. They're WAY better than the cantilevers and have pretty decent clearance. I think you could easily fit 30mm tires in there. Probably more.

My Indy Fab with discs is better than both. They're 'just' TRP Spyres but they have better modulation than the Shimanos and more power than the cantilever brakes.

The long reach calipers are pretty good though, I won't deny it. They're just a bit more limited in the tire selection than the discs. But not too much.

[d_douglas]

+1 for the Redline. I commute on one and have had it in varying guises over the years. CXing with knobbies, fab slicks that I have used on the occasional road ride, and now with a flat bar for dodging cars.

It is a well mannered frame in all scenarios. Mine is quite old but has discs that I think are great, but I am advocating for its handling characteristics more than the brakes.

I you want clearance, I would avoid anything with road calipers, long reach or otherwise.

[Look585]

Looked at the Felt V85 the other day. Discs, aluminum, 70mm bb drop, loads of clearance, long wheelbase. Too much headtube for me (190mm @ 56.5cm TT) but looked pretty nice for 1400$.

[mhespenheide]

How much does the Poprad weigh? So much that its weight makes it feel sluggish? Does that mean slow to accelerate, slow to turn, both, something else?
At 6'4" you must weigh quite a bit yourself so a couple of pounds more or less between bikes can't make much difference for the kind of riding you describe, can it? As far as that goes, I wouldn't assume that stated weights for bikes are always accurate anyway because I have seen plenty of surprises when we hung bikes from a scale.

I prefer bikes that tend toward stability rather than quick turning especially when riding in gravel or other loose surfaces. This generally means longer chainstays and relaxed angles. My favorite bikes have 75-80 mm of BB drop too. They are less prone to having the front wheel dig in and wash out when I get in deep stuff.

Are the brakes on the Poprad inadequate for your riding? Would discs allow/encourage you to ride places that cantis don't?

Could you try different wheels and/or tires to see if that might be all you need?

Ken,

I took the wheels off both bikes this morning and weighed them; the Specialized is a little more than 2 pounds lighter than the LeMond. I think it's the weight that I'm perceiving as "sluggish": getting up to speed and climbing is where I'm noticing it. At speed, I really like the handling of the LeMond. I'm 6'4" and 180#; I know it's not the thing on this board to obsess over the weight of the bike, but I think it might be the issue here. (To the point where, if I had a chuck of cash to spend, I'd love to commission a custom Ti frame with geometry similar to the Poprad's!)

I don't ride in really nasty conditions or weather, so I've not felt limited by the mini-v's on the Poprad. The canti's on the Specialized, on the other hand, are a distinct step down from the mini-v's.

[Coluber42]

One thing to keep in mind is that discs don't wear down the rims when you brake. If you mostly ride in good weather, it won't matter as much. But if you expect to ride on wet dirt roads a lot, wearing down rims can be a major concern, especially for a larger rider. Paying extra for discs now may save you paying for new rims (or wheels, or having wheels rebuilt on new rims unless you can do it yourself) down the line.

[mhespenheide]

Your Tricross in a 56cm is pretty easy a 17 lb bike. Less than aggressive angles & one of the longest CS / WB measurements running. & need clearance? 43mm plus. I don't believe you'll notice - what a 3-5mm drop diff? You have the bike that meets everything you listed.

Jgrooms, I hear what you're saying, but I think it might. Since both bikes have a similar wheelbase and chainstay length, I'm attibuting that difference to the bottom bracket drop. As a taller rider, most of my bikes tend to have 67-68mm of drop; the Poprad with 74mm of drop feels distinctly different.

I'm not too articulate about it, but it feels like I'm riding the Poprad, while I'm riding on top of the Tricross. The Poprad simply feels more sure-footed on both asphalt and dirt.

I wish it wasn't the case; I'd stick with the Tricross and sell the Poprad.

[Ken Robb]

Ken,

, if I had a chuck of cash to spend, I'd love to commission a custom Ti frame with geometry similar to the Poprad's!)

I don't ride in really nasty conditions or weather, so I've not felt limited by the mini-v's on the Poprad. The canti's on the Specialized, on the other hand, are a distinct step down from the mini-v's.

If you get to San Diego you can try my Hampsten Strada Bianca by MOOTS with YBB. THEN you will really want a custom ti. :)