Vittoria Pavé / Veloflex Master

[velotel]

After how many Ks of use I have no idea at all but whatever the number the Veloflex Master on the back wheel finally was ready to be replaced. A lot of hard use I should add, as in lots of climbing and quite a bit of rocky dirt roads. Front tire is still looking in great shape but finally decided to replace both of them with 700x27 Pavés since all of a sudden I saw they were available here for a good price, but still more than the Masters. My only reason for switching is because I wanted to see what the increased volume (assuming there is some increase) would serve up, like in more cushion. Must admit that making the switch wasn’t easy because the Masters have been exceptional tires for me, despite their small size. As has been noted in the past the 25 Masters are more like 23 than 25 so really wanted to see what the 27 Pavé had.

Mounted them up, pumped up to only 80 lbs, 10 less than I ran the Masters. Headed off for an evening spin on the plateau. With 10 lbs less pressure they still felt way harder than the Masters but they rode well and fast. Next evening dropped the pressure by 5 lbs, a little softer ride, but not much. Ridden them maybe 6 times now, including some short bit on dirt and rocks, and all in all very nice riding tires. But I have to say that the Masters serve up a smoother ride despite their reduced volume in comparison. Or at least that’s my memory. Really need to have two sets of wheels mounted and switch back and forth to feel the real differences. Visually I didn’t see all that much of an increase in size between the Pavés and Masters and as I’ve said in the past, for me the Masters seemed to ride fatter than their numbers.

All in all a very preliminary bit of feedback but based on my experience so far, if I was making the decision again I’d stick with Veloflex. They ride super smooth, wear as well or better than any other tires I’ve used, they’re handmade in Italy, and they cost around 17 euros less, as in 27 against 44. For only 10 euros more than what I paid for one Pavé I could have had 2 Masters. On the other hand I do rather like those green stripes on the Pavés. Could have ordered them with black sidewalls but had to have the green even if the color clashes with my bike. So given their significant price difference and that Veloflex are handmade in Italy, for me the vote is definitely in favor of the Italians. But I like the Pavés anyway.

[pinoymamba]

I wish I could use either tire all the time. I ride the gp4000s daily and race on vittoria pave/sc and veloflex master.

[oldpotatoe]

After how many Ks of use I have no idea at all but whatever the number the Veloflex Master on the back wheel finally was ready to be replaced. A lot of hard use I should add, as in lots of climbing and quite a bit of rocky dirt roads. Front tire is still looking in great shape but finally decided to replace both of them with 700x27 Pavés since all of a sudden I saw they were available here for a good price, but still more than the Masters. My only reason for switching is because I wanted to see what the increased volume (assuming there is some increase) would serve up, like in more cushion. Must admit that making the switch wasn’t easy because the Masters have been exceptional tires for me, despite their small size. As has been noted in the past the 25 Masters are more like 23 than 25 so really wanted to see what the 27 Pavé had.

Mounted them up, pumped up to only 80 lbs, 10 less than I ran the Masters. Headed off for an evening spin on the plateau. With 10 lbs less pressure they still felt way harder than the Masters but they rode well and fast. Next evening dropped the pressure by 5 lbs, a little softer ride, but not much. Ridden them maybe 6 times now, including some short bit on dirt and rocks, and all in all very nice riding tires. But I have to say that the Masters serve up a smoother ride despite their reduced volume in comparison. Or at least that’s my memory. Really need to have two sets of wheels mounted and switch back and forth to feel the real differences. Visually I didn’t see all that much of an increase in size between the Pavés and Masters and as I’ve said in the past, for me the Masters seemed to ride fatter than their numbers.

All in all a very preliminary bit of feedback but based on my experience so far, if I was making the decision again I’d stick with Veloflex. They ride super smooth, wear as well or better than any other tires I’ve used, they’re handmade in Italy, and they cost around 17 euros less, as in 27 against 44. For only 10 euros more than what I paid for one Pavé I could have had 2 Masters. On the other hand I do rather like those green stripes on the Pavés. Could have ordered them with black sidewalls but had to have the green even if the color clashes with my bike. So given their significant price difference and that Veloflex are handmade in Italy, for me the vote is definitely in favor of the Italians. But I like the Pavés anyway.

Maybe you ought to compare Vittoria Open CX and the Master. Pave is really, kinda designed for...'pave', as Vittoria says, "Clincher version of Pavè CG, hand-made ‘open tubular’ for toughest road conditions.".

More 'stuff' in the casing to make more 'pave'..

Interesting about the $..just the opposite here..even at wholesale. Veloflex lots more $.

[BSUdude]

I wish I could use either tire all the time. I ride the gp4000s daily and race on vittoria pave/sc and veloflex master.

Wut? You might be doing it backwards...

GP4000S have significantly lower rolling resistance than both of the other options..

[Cicli]

Wut? You might be doing it backwards...

GP4000S have significantly lower rolling resistance than both of the other options..

Can you back this up with data?

:cool::confused:

[BSUdude]

Can you back this up with data?

:cool::confused:

http://www.biketechreview.com/tires_old/images/AFM_tire_testing_rev9.pdf

To be fair, this complilation doesn't include the veloflex master specifically, but the only veloflex tire that outperforms the GP4000S is the record. Not sure which tubular of the veloflex lineup the master aligns with, but I'm guessing it's something other than the record.

Actually I just checked the veloflex website and apparently they make a clincher version of the record which in my mind confirms my assumption.

[Cicli]

http://www.biketechreview.com/tires_old/images/AFM_tire_testing_rev9.pdf

To be fair, this complilation doesn't include the veloflex master specifically, but the only veloflex tire that outperforms the GP4000S is the record. Not sure which tubular of the veloflex lineup the master aligns with, but I'm guessing it's something other than the record.

Actually I just checked the veloflex website and apparently they make a clincher version of the record which in my mind confirms my assumption.

Thanks and very interesting. The GP4000S II tires do ride nice.
I use a very scientific method of mounting them on my bike and riding. I like the Veloflex. I have no data, or computer or anything. Maybe its the Italian? I dunno?
Thanks for the link.

[BSUdude]

Thanks and very interesting. The GP4000S II tires do ride nice.
I use a very scientific method of mounting them on my bike and riding. I like the Veloflex. I have no data, or computer or anything. Maybe its the Italian? I dunno?
Thanks for the link.

No problem.

Also helps to show this to people that poo-poo latex tubes.

Anecdotally, I rode 23mm GP4000S for general training and some racing for years. This winter I got a good deal on some 25mm Vittoria Pave clinchers. They FEEL slower to me (could be a placebo based on my knowledge of that data). But they are also more plush. Tradeoffs.

I bought a set of carbon wheels 2nd hand that had Veloflex tubulars mounted. They were VERY nice riding, probably overall the nicest feeling road tires I've ever used.

For TTs I used Vittoria CX clinchers, but I hated them in crits. Although the data says they are faster, to me I didn't feel confident railing corners on them like I did on the GP4000s.

[Anarchist]

Wut? You might be doing it backwards...

GP4000S have significantly lower rolling resistance than both of the other options..

Plus, as an added bonus they ride like truck tires.

What's not to like?

[thwart]

http://www.biketechreview.com/tires_old/images/AFM_tire_testing_rev9.pdf


OK, the next time I buy tires to use on my rollers, I should really consider buying Conti 4000S's...

:rolleyes:

All kidding aside, that's a really impressive collection of data, but there are issues... for one, there was only one run with the 4000S's, compared to more than one for most other tires.

[BSUdude]

Plus, as an added bonus they ride like truck tires.

What's not to like?

My point wasn't to try to convince anyone of the ride quality of a given tire. That is subjective. If the goal is to do well in a RACE, *I* would factor in rolling resistance, which is a quantifiable data point, in addition to grip, perceived ride quality, and durability.

As an example, per the linked data, if you went from using a veloflex pave w/ butyl tubes to a GP4000S with latex tubes you'd save about 7-8 watts. That's 7 watts that you didn't have to do any training or intervals to get. 7 watts to your FTP is a decent amount, and you'd have to do a good amount of hard work to see that improvement. And you could get it for the cost of 2 tires and 2 tubes.

It's up to the individual to weigh each aspect of a tire setup based on their preferences and demands of their intended use. As I said in my own post above, I chose a tire with a higher rolling resistance because I felt (subjective) it offered more grip and I was willing to make that trade for a given application. Just offering the info up. Knowledge can be power.

Tire pressure, wear, and width are other related issues here, but probably beyond the scope of this discussion and something that's less easily quantified.

[sparky33]

On the other hand I do rather like those green stripes on the Pavés.

Me too. They look great.