Latex vs Butyl: which tubes for gravel?

[Duende]

Have to ask for some words of wisdom here. Love me my latex tubes on the road, but what do you all do for 25cc tires on the gravel??

[nate2351]

Tubeless ;)

[Duende]

Dope!!! Should of known the answer was that!! :)

[45K10]

I always had good luck running the Michelin latex tubes with GP4000's on gravel even though they are sized 22/23 c they work great in 25's. I even run them in my 33c cross tires

[Black Dog]

Latex. Less likely to pinch flat on latex. I run latex for everything. Easy to patch and less prone to flats.

[JStonebarger]

Latex. Less likely to pinch flat on latex. I run latex for everything. Easy to patch and less prone to flats.

+1. And depending on your tire choice and setup, very possibly lower weight and rolling resistance than tubeless.

[Lewis Moon]

Don't run latex tubes too much smaller than the tire size would dictate. If they're "over stretched", a hole might turn into a rip. Same on butyl but not to the same extent.
IMHO: Latex is a bad "bang for the buck" purchase. Spend the extra money on better tires.

[JStonebarger]

Don't run latex tubes too much smaller than the tire size would dictate. If they're "over stretched", a hole might turn into a rip. Same on butyl but not to the same extent.
IMHO: Latex is a bad "bang for the buck" purchase. Spend the extra money on better tires.

I don't know about that. Latex is 7 times stretchier than butyl, so over stretching it would be hard to do. (I've run 22mm tubes in 33mm 'cross tires with no problem.) For the same reason, latex is harder to puncture and much harder to pinch flat (tear) than butyl. Meanwhile, latex tubes offer measurably lower rolling resistance than butyl -- watts saved, essentially for free.

As for the money? It's a wash. Latex lasts longer than butyl to begin with, and when it does puncture it's easy to patch. Maybe it's just me, but I'm a lot more likely to patch a $15 latex tube than a $5 butyl one.

The downsides to latex? Inflating before each ride and no CO2 (so carry a butyl spare instead). That's it.

[Lewis Moon]

I don't know about that. Latex is 7 times stretchier than butyl, so over stretching it would be hard to do. (I've run 22mm tubes in 33mm 'cross tires with no problem.) For the same reason, latex is harder to puncture and much harder to pinch flat (tear) than butyl. Meanwhile, latex tubes offer measurably lower rolling resistance than butyl -- watts saved, essentially for free.

As for the money? It's a wash. Latex lasts longer than butyl to begin with, and when it does puncture it's easy to patch. Maybe it's just me, but I'm a lot more likely to patch a $15 latex tube than a $5 butyl one.

The downsides to latex? Inflating before each ride and no CO2 (so carry a butyl spare instead). That's it.

Not my experience at all. I've given latex a shot on two sets of wheels and EVERY one of them blew irreparably on the first ride. Every one. The last set ended up in a dumpster mid ride. Luckily I distrusted them enough to have two back up butyl tubes. The first time I had to call for a rescue. Bad luck?..probably, but a big enough correlation for me to avoid them like the plague. I've rarely (like in almost never) had double flats on butyl, unless I miss a wire in the tire when replacing it, and I can't recall ever having tubes self destruct on me when the tire remained intact.

Like I said, this is my experience/opinion. YMMV

[Lionel]

EVERY one of them blew irreparably on the first ride. Every one.

Wrong install. They were pinched.

[beeatnik]

Rocked latex at the Rumble in the Ranchlands

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8663/16145536844_f9c1cea623_o.jpg

Where about 1/3 of the field seemed to pinch flat

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7647/16749051551_0768756af0_c.jpg

[11.4]

I start to sympathize with Lewis. I've used latex tubes with Veloflex Masters for years when I'm riding clinchers. Never had a problem, knock on wood. Went to some Challenge Strada Biancas and tried some larger latex tubes with them. Same rims in both cases (Hed Belgiums). Blew through five latex tubes. Changed to new tires and tried some Schwalbe Racing Ralphs instead just for grins. Two more blowouts. Still not sure what was going on unless it was a bad batch. Super careful in installing all of them, especially after the first blowout. Inspected at about 10 psi and again at about 30 psi, pushing the tire aside to ensure there wasn't any tube visible at the bottom of the rim bed, and so on. I felt humbled that day. And deaf.

[joosttx]

I would seriously consider tubeless

[Lewis Moon]

Wrong install. They were pinched.

No, they weren't. I've been riding/racing since '74 and know how to install tubes. Really. They all ripped from small thorns or cactus spines. They were all Challenge if that makes a diff.

[CAAD]

On my clinchers i have been using the Vredestein latex tubes for some time now. These seem to be the best of all the other latex tubes i have tried. I had no issues running lower then normal pressure on some gatorskin 25s doing gravel rides. Wish they made some 25-28c latex tubes.

[45K10]

No, they weren't. I've been riding/racing since '74 and know how to install tubes. Really. They all ripped from small thorns or cactus spines. They were all Challenge if that makes a diff.

Yep the Challenge latex tubes suck, gotta go with the Michelins, Vittoria ones are okay but the Michelin latex tubes are hands down the best that I have used.

[djg21]

I don't know about that. Latex is 7 times stretchier than butyl, so over stretching it would be hard to do. (I've run 22mm tubes in 33mm 'cross tires with no problem.) For the same reason, latex is harder to puncture and much harder to pinch flat (tear) than butyl. Meanwhile, latex tubes offer measurably lower rolling resistance than butyl -- watts saved, essentially for free.

As for the money? It's a wash. Latex lasts longer than butyl to begin with, and when it does puncture it's easy to patch. Maybe it's just me, but I'm a lot more likely to patch a $15 latex tube than a $5 butyl one.

The downsides to latex? Inflating before each ride and no CO2 (so carry a butyl spare instead). That's it.

Why no CO2? I run only latex tubes for the reasons you state, and have never had a problem inflating with a CO2 cartridge. I have no issue re-inflating everyday, as I did this even with butyl tubes too.

[JStonebarger]

Why no CO2? I run only latex tubes for the reasons you state, and have never had a problem inflating with a CO2 cartridge. I have no issue re-inflating everyday, as I did this even with butyl tubes too.

Latex doesn't hold CO2 as well as butyl, for the same reason it doesn't hold air for as long. Probably not a big deal unless you're on a very long ride, but I usually pack a spare butyl just to be safe. Of course, then I go home and install latex...

[djg21]

Yep the Challenge latex tubes suck, gotta go with the Michelins, Vittoria ones are okay but the Michelin latex tubes are hands down the best that I have used.

But the Michelin tubes have valves that are unthreaded and don't have removable cores. This means you cannot use good valve extenders, and the valves don't work well with some pump heads.

I always used Michelin tubes, but since getting a set of Zipp 808 wheels, I switched to Vittoria latex tubes, which have threaded valves with removable cores. The Vittorias work fine, and seem to me to be equally as durable as Michelins.

[djg21]

Latex doesn't hold CO2 as well as butyl, for the same reason it doesn't hold air for as long. Probably not a big deal unless you're on a very long ride, but I usually pack a spare butyl just to be safe. Of course, then I go home and install latex...

I've not really had a problem even on long rides. I carry 12g cartridges on the road, and they inflate fine to more than adequate pressure. I Suppose you could carry 16g cartridges if you are concerned, and leave air in the cartridge to top off later if you lose too much pressure.

[BSUdude]

FYI, vredestein and bontrager both make nice latex tubes with removable valvecores.

[MattTuck]

FYI, vredestein and bontrager both make nice latex tubes with removable valvecores.

I've been told in the past that pretty much all tubes (I believe with the exception of Continental) come out of one of two giant factories in China; the only difference being the box they go into.

Vredstein sounds like they could have their own production somewhere in Europe, but I am wondering if there is any truth to this, and what brands are actually producing their own tubes.

[JStonebarger]

I've not really had a problem even on long rides. I carry 12g cartridges on the road, and they inflate fine to more than adequate pressure. Isuppose you could carry 16g cartridges if you are concerned, and leave air in the cartridge to top off later if you lose too much pressure.

I'll definitely try that. Thanks.

One more issue about installing latex that I'll have to be careful about when installing on the road: because latex is stretchier than butyl, it can blowout through holes far too small to matter with a butyl. If there's any chance that the tire's casing is cut I'll play it safe with a boot of some kind.

A few years ago I did have trouble with repeated blowouts with a disc wheel. I had all but concluded that the latex tubes were from a defective batch -- three in a row destroyed right at the stem. Then someone online pointed out that a big bang signals a blowout, not a puncture or tear, that the tube is escaping the rim/tire. There was a bit too much play at the stem hole. Once that was repaired the disc was good to go. With latex.

[djg21]

I'll definitely try that. Thanks.

One more issue about installing latex that I'll have to be careful about when installing on the road: because latex is stretchier than butyl, it can blowout through holes far too small to matter with a butyl. If there's any chance that the tire's casing is cut I'll play it safe with a boot of some kind.

A few years ago I did have trouble with repeated blowouts with a disc wheel. I had all but concluded that the latex tubes were from a defective batch -- three in a row destroyed right at the stem. Then someone online pointed out that a big bang signals a blowout, not a puncture or tear, that the tube is escaping the rim/tire. There was a bit too much play at the stem hole. Once that was repaired the disc was good to go. With latex.

I carry butyl spares (2 in my seat bag) for essentially the same reason: I find I have to be more careful when replacing a bad tube with a latex one while on the side of the road. But I flat far less frequently with latex tubes and good 25c tires (gp4000s).

When I've had repeated blowouts like you describe, it's been bad rim strips.

[the bottle ride]

Used to run latex tubes on all my MTB race wheels before tubeless for a few years- ran regular tubes in the training wheels- I did not have great experience- I thought they were pricey and flatted a bunch of times compared to regular tubes.
Not sure if it was a MTB issue- but I certainly liked them especially when matched with a nice light tire


Going to try them again- just got a new set of Michelin tubes from a family member to go along with a set of pro4s

[45K10]

I've been told in the past that pretty much all tubes (I believe with the exception of Continental) come out of one of two giant factories in China; the only difference being the box they go into.



Vredstein sounds like they could have their own production somewhere in Europe, but I am wondering if there is any truth to this, and what brands are actually producing their own tubes.


The michelins feel thicker than the Vitorrias. The Challenge latex tubes feel like a cheap condom. I think all three probably come from the same factory just made to different specs



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[11.4]

The michelins feel thicker than the Vitorrias. The Challenge latex tubes feel like a cheap condom. I think all three probably come from the same factory just made to different specs



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I always heard that Vredesteins came from their own plant because they wanted a dye-free latex (you get better durability that way). As for the others, butyl tubes are spec'd from the same couple factories but all the latex tubes I've used have really had quite different valve mountings, packaging, tubing thickness, and so on. If they are each spec'd completely differently by manufacturers, that they are ultimately made in the same plant isn't all that relevant.

[Duende]

Thanks guys! I was questioning using the michelins that are currently installed. Guess I'm good to go. Bought some vredenstein For back-ups. Never tried them before. Hope they're as good as the michelins.

:)

[shovelhd]

But the Michelin tubes have valves that are unthreaded and don't have removable cores. This means you cannot use good valve extenders, and the valves don't work well with some pump heads.

I always used Michelin tubes, but since getting a set of Zipp 808 wheels, I switched to Vittoria latex tubes, which have threaded valves with removable. cores. The Vittorias work fine, and seem to me to be equally as durable as Michelins.

+1. Vittorias have worked out just fine for me with Continental extenders. Ribble had them on sale a few weeks ago for $8.xx each I bought a six pack. I also carry a butyl spare to save time on the side of the road.

[rockdude]

when i've had repeated blowouts like you describe, it's been bad rim strips.

+1, same for me.