60 Minutes Sports-The Crit

[Hawker]

Just finished watching the new edition of 60 Minutes Sports on Showtime. They did a piece on the Redhook Criterium aka The Crit. Apparently a race started in Brooklyn in 2008 and the series has now spread to a half dozen countries in Europe.

The interesting thing...the race is done on fixies and attracts hundreds of riders with preliminary races leading to the final.

I had never heard of this (and it looks pretty crazy) any of you?

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/the-red-hook-crit-bike-racings-triple-espresso/

[carpediemracing]

I haven't done it. It was a rogue race initially, meaning no insurance/etc, not sure how un-rogue it is now, but a lot of riders do it.

For me it has no appeal, even though I'm a crit racer through and through. The fixed gear aspect makes it too risky for me. I am all about risk averse.

[Hawker]

Yes, I doubt there is any sanctioning body approval, I could be wrong.

Based on the video, I was not impressed with the lack of safety barriers in many places on the two courses that were shown.

[eBAUMANN]

This year will be my 4th RHC, its a blast.

The brakeless aspect of it doesnt make it any more or less dangerous than any other crit IMO, if someone crashes at those speeds in front of you, you are going down brakes or no brakes. The start can be a little chaotic but groups form pretty quickly and you ride single file for the majority of the race. Only the front of the race really gets aggro, and even then, its no big deal, those guys know what they are doing.

Ill say this, I have never been a part of a better organized race than the RHC and there is no more thrilling a race atmosphere than the RHC. Its a total adrenaline rush, thousands of people lining the entire course going crazy cheering for everyone. Its really pretty special.

[beeatnik]

https://vimeo.com/68109558

[carpediemracing]

I should add/clarify - I don't ride a fixed gear. I mean, okay, I raced regularly on the track for a year, but I'm definitely not fluent.

If the identical races were run with regular bikes I'd probably enter them, time/family allowing. A regular crit, at night, is huge fun, and pretty safe (from the several I've done, last one was the Vegas crit during Interbike).

If you remove the fixed gear bit from the equation it's just another night crit. Not that there are tons of them but that's what you have, and apparently that isn't enough because it wouldn't have become a thing if it was just a night crit.

The fixed gear bit (because initially it was more like a messenger thing) is what sets these apart, and it's what makes it unappealing to me.

[eBAUMANN]

Its kinda funny, because I feel similarly about road crits...in that I dont race them because I find them to be more dangerous then the racing experience they offer is worth...to me.

There is something about riding a track bike on a closed "street" course at high speeds that is just incredibly fun and addicting. Its hard to explain if you've never done it before...just like the appeal of RHC is hard to explain, until you try it.

[JAllen]

I LOVE the atmosphere you see in any crit videos (haven't had the honor of seeing one in person). its just so heartfelt. The crashes are brutal though...

[eBAUMANN]

I LOVE the atmosphere you see in any crit videos (haven't had the honor of seeing one in person). its just so heartfelt. The crashes are brutal though...

Worth mentioning, I dont think any of the crashes shown in that 60 minutes video were from the RED HOOK crit course...the brooklyn navy yard race was a one year thing that had several gnarly crashes due to the substantially more technical course (which I personally loved). The others were from races in milan and barcelona.

The actual RED HOOK course is actually pretty tame and easy to manage in a pack of racers moving at the same speed as you.

[brando]

Did the 60 minutes piece mention any doping?

[velomonkey]

I'm a crit racer through and through. . . . I am all about risk averse.

Those two statements are at odds with each other. Just saying . . . .:banana:

[BobbyJones]

It's the race format of the future. Mark my words. Or don't.

[ptourkin]

https://vimeo.com/68109558

Fabian is a beast. Orange20 foever.

[bcroslin]

I've always wanted to do the RHC. At the very least I'm going to come see it in person at some point. How does it work as far as qualifying for the final?

[shovelhd]

Red Hook is not USAC sanctioned unless something changed. It's an underground race started by messengers that a few years back went mainstream and offers substantial prizes. Pros from Europe show up to take the candy. Riders of varying ability are in the same field. It's up to you to determine whether that is more dangerous than a USAC crit where bikes have brakes.

[shovelhd]

It's the race format of the future. Mark my words. Or don't.

Gran fondo in circles?

[carpediemracing]

Those two statements are at odds with each other. Just saying . . . .:banana:

I know. But generally speaking that's been my experience. You know the course after a lap or two (I haven't done that many new courses but in a few I hadn't seen the course until the first lap of the race due to time/etc), you know who's around you, and you can bail and not be stuck somewhere.

Crits throw turns/etc at you much more frequently, allowing you to learn other riders' strengths and weaknesses pretty quickly. In some road races you might see literally one or two turns in 20-odd miles, making it very hard to predict exactly how the riders will handle the 35 mph hard right turn into the steep hill. In a crit I can move around the field, watch and observe in turns (and straights), and quickly get an idea of who to avoid. Knowing the turns also gives me a frame of reference so I can relate to the other riders, like "Okay, that guy corners better than me" or whatever. Going into some switchback I don't know isn't going to allow me to have a solid baseline because I'm adapting also.

Generally speaking the more adept pack riding folks are in crits. Road races tend to attract riders that feel they aren't really good at crits, which is another way of saying they don't feel good riding in a group. Overall the skill level in a crit is higher, making things a bit more predictable.

Crit max speeds are lower. I had a series of high speed incidents (I crashed in a few, avoided hitting the deck in most) where someone way up front had a problem at 50-60 mph, hit the deck, and chaos ensued. In a crit you virtually never have such a steep/long descent so your speeds are usually at least under 50 and realistically always under 45. I hit over 65 in a RR, after getting shelled (a guy fell into my rear wheel on a hill, jamming his face into my brake and skidding my tire to a stop with his nose or something). If I was in the field and someone went down it would have been ugly. In the pro race that year someone did hit the deck at similar speeds and it was bad.

However the Red Hook stuff is different from a crit, at least as defined by USAC. Most of the above applies to Red Hook except there's the added aspect of fixed gear with no brake. I've raced on the track and that was great, but on the road I'd rather be on a regular geared/braked bike.

[nooneline]

Agree with you, CDR. One of the ways I see it, too, is that constant speed and corners keep things organized. Road races have the mad swirling and flicking that crits rarely do.

There's also a distinct difference between perceived danger and actual danger. In a crit, you can see most of the course and you're hanging out there all day. You see the crashes. In a road race? Nope. Sometimes, a higher perceived danger is the reason for lower actual danger.

I really wish I could get my hands on bulk "incident report" data from races, so that I could see what types of races actually ARE the most dangerous, what fields have the highest rate of crashes, and what other variables might affect crash rate (weather? combined fields?). it would be very interesting to get some aggregate info to inform conversations like this. experiential 'data' only go so far.

[carpediemracing]

One thing I'll add. The most technical courses tend to be the safest. Everyone, even the "good" riders, get a bit more careful when you have nutty bits of course, like a 2 lane hard right off of a 40 mph downhill where your turn in point has a raised sewer grate so your tires leave the air before you dive into the turn (Tarrytown Crit, NY, one year when they had to move the course at the last minute due to something).

After a lap or three everyone figured it out. You blast down the left curb, you brake hard just before the raised sewer grate, get air as you went over that thing, as the tires land you initiated your turn in. You cleared the curb at turn out by a few inches, you felt like you were on rails, and it was totally cool. In fact throughout the race we went faster and faster and it was all good.

In another (Norwich Crit, CT) there was an off camber downhill s-curve with a huge aluminum light pole defining the "S". When we walked the course I hit the pole with my hand and it made a great BOOONNNNGGGG noise. I figured I'd hear that like it was a crash counter. Thing was no one crashed. Everyone was scared of the pole and so everyone raced hard enough that it was totally strung out through that section (I got shelled).

Locally there's a race (Kermis) with a 180 going into a one car wide path (it's a two lane bike path). The naysayers were like "oh, there are going to be so many crashes there". Nope. It's a bit nervous, of course, but it's been safe. It totally makes the race too. Even if there's a crash it'll be at lower speeds so it should be okay.

The horrible crit crashes I know about have almost always been on wide open roads and usually either on straights or gentle curves.

[earlfoss]

I like in the video how the dudes who crash run off the course, leaving their bikes still laying out there. :bike:

[beeatnik]

fabian is a beast. Wolfpack hustle ride rip

fify

[aramis]

This year will be my 4th RHC, its a blast.

The brakeless aspect of it doesnt make it any more or less dangerous than any other crit IMO, if someone crashes at those speeds in front of you, you are going down brakes or no brakes. The start can be a little chaotic but groups form pretty quickly and you ride single file for the majority of the race. Only the front of the race really gets aggro, and even then, its no big deal, those guys know what they are doing.

Ill say this, I have never been a part of a better organized race than the RHC and there is no more thrilling a race atmosphere than the RHC. Its a total adrenaline rush, thousands of people lining the entire course going crazy cheering for everyone. Its really pretty special.

Thanks for the insight. I can see the appeal of RHC and it seems the "wow" factor of using a track bike on the street gives it a lot of attention, which is good for bike racing.

I feel safer at the track on my track bike than in a road race, I think a lot of it is that with a track bike you are kind of forced to be a little smoother than on the road due to the lack of gears and brakes.

On a side note, it was funny to have my mom explaining to me the other day how bike racing worked.

[atanz]

I highly recommend coming out to watch the Crit this year, its in April so the temperatures won't be below freezing like most previous years. I've raced it three times but this year I'll be out there photographing. its a good time!

[fatallightning]

This upcoming one will be my 5th. I did the last one actually run on the open streets, i.e. no course closure, across the cobbles, with buses and cars and all that fun. Now it is more then legit, with more spectators then Harlem Skyscraper, Tour of Somerville, etc. Level of competition is super high. Finishing is an accomplishment.

[ptourkin]

There is more and more crossover between this kind of racing and the track, in both directions. I know people who started on the track and are competing internationally in fixed crits and also people who started in more underground racing and are now out on the track. I was up at Carson last night and WPH, Engine 11 and others were well represented all the way up through the 123 field. The newer administration at LAVRA welcomes these new riders and it's a breath of fresh air.

[fatallightning]

I think it can't be disputed that the youth fixie/crit racer movement has breathed life into track racing that was on the brink of irrelevance. I say that as an avid track racing fan.