Teach me about mountain bikes

[dgauthier]

I have just started thinking about getting a mountain bike. I have never owned a mountain bike before, but my idea of perfection would be a steel hard tail with rigid fork and V-brakes, perhaps fitted with 29" wheels, and kitted out with Shimano XT. (I could go aluminum if I liked the bike.) According to this thread http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=165925 my tastes are already retro-chic.

I'll ride on the gravel fire roads and single track trails in the Santa Monica mountains in L.A. (No jumping or acrobatics or floating above the bike hanging on to the seat while weightless in mid-air.) I would keep this bike for 10 years. I tend to like "back to basics" simplicity. My budget would be anywhere under $2000 but I'm flexible. My questions for this forum are:

1. Am I crazy to want a rigid fork? I understand suspension can improve a mountain bike's handling, but it just seems like a lot of extra weight. I've fooled around on full suspension mountain bikes and it felt mushy and slow, so a hard tail is a given. Would I regret not getting a suspension fork?

2. Almost every new mountain bike I've seen on the web so far comes with disk brakes. The curmudgeon in me thinks this is just an up-sell. I'm in Los Angeles during a "mega-drought", so it's not going to be muddy. Are V-brakes a good choice?

3. Should I opt for 29" wheels? I'm a very seasoned roadie, and I like the sense of speed one gets on a fast road bike. Anything that makes a mountain bike roll faster sounds good to me. Are there any downsides to 29" wheels?

4. Finally, if my retro tastes are all good ideas, who sells simple steel unsuspended mountain bikes new these days?

Thanks in advance for your wise advice!

[vav]

Too bad this isn't local to you. Comes with a susp and rigid fork. A lot of bike for 1.2 K me thinks.

http://boston.craigslist.org/sob/bik/4959182080.html

http://images.craigslist.org/00404_lisA7pVe7fb_600x450.jpg

[dgauthier]

Thanks but I'd only buy new, to ensure I'm bombing around on a bike that's 100% sound.

[sandyrs]

A rigid fork will not be unridable (my MTB has a rigid fork, and New England trails are super rocky), but it will be far less comfortable to ride than a suspension fork and will require constant attention to avoid the sorts of little trail imperfections a suspension fork can take the edge off of. I think this kind of riding is fun but some people hate it. That said I wouldn't avoid suspension just for the weight. If you're used to a road bike, any mountain bike will feel like a boat at first.

You might like the Surly Krampus or Niner's 29+. I have my eye on one myself.

http://surlybikes.com/bikes/krampus

http://www.ninerbikes.com/ros9plus

EDIT: I know you said you think disc brakes are a marketing upsell, but hydraulic discs really do work better than rim brakes and I wouldn't avoid them just for the sake of avoiding them. Mud isn't the only time the extra brake performance will come in handy. Your hands will thank you on those long descents you west coast riders are lucky enough to have!

[Bruce1941]

The best V brake isn't nearly as good as a mediocre disc brake. There is something nice about going simple but I like FS. Not nearly as beat up after a long ride. And the mushy feel can be tuned out as to your preferences. It is amazing what technology has done. Doesn't matter, go retro. No cars, no motorcycles, peace and quiet. Have a blast.

[mg2ride]

....
1. Am I crazy to want a rigid fork? I understand suspension can improve a mountain bike's handling, but it just seems like a lot of extra weight. I've fooled around on full suspension mountain bikes and it felt mushy and slow, so a hard tail is a given. Would I regret not getting a suspension fork?


It is beyond crazy and quickly approaching stupid. No question you can ride trails without a suspension fork but it sucks much of the fun out of. Everything does not have to be about the 'Challenge".

If you can drop the coin for a really good one and you are just going to be a casual MTB's Full suspension might even be the way to go. They will feel heavy and slow on smooth roads but you get them on a trial full of rocks and roots and they are fast and agile.



2. Almost every new mountain bike I've seen on the web so far comes with disk brakes. The curmudgeon in me thinks this is just an up-sell. I'm in Los Angeles during a "mega-drought", so it's not going to be muddy. Are V-brakes a good choice?


No there are not. There are many very good reasons to only go Disc on a MTB.



3. Should I opt for 29" wheels? I'm a very seasoned roadie, and I like the sense of speed one gets on a fast road bike. Anything that makes a mountain bike roll faster sounds good to me. Are there any downsides to 29" wheels?


They both work fine. If you refuse to go with front suspension get a 29er. That way when you never ride it on trials you can put some big slicks on it.


4. Finally, if my retro tastes are all good ideas, who sells simple steel unsuspended mountain bikes new these days?



No one that plans to stay in business very long. If you really want to be retro buy a new beach cruiser and convert it to a MTB.



Thanks in advance for your wise advice!

No problem. It's what I do:banana:

[BSUdude]

I have just started thinking about getting a mountain bike. I have never owned a mountain bike before, but my idea of perfection would be a steel hard tail with rigid fork and V-brakes, perhaps fitted with 29" wheels, and kitted out with Shimano XT. (I could go aluminum if I liked the bike.) According to this thread http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=165925 my tastes are already retro-chic.

I'll ride on the gravel fire roads and single track trails in the Santa Monica mountains in L.A. (No jumping or acrobatics or floating above the bike hanging on to the seat while weightless in mid-air.) I would keep this bike for 10 years. I tend to like "back to basics" simplicity. My budget would be anywhere under $2000 but I'm flexible. My questions for this forum are:

1. Am I crazy to want a rigid fork? I understand suspension can improve a mountain bike's handling, but it just seems like a lot of extra weight. I've fooled around on full suspension mountain bikes and it felt mushy and slow, so a hard tail is a given. Would I regret not getting a suspension fork?

I'd get a suspension fork and just lock it out when you don't need it. Better to have one that only gets used 10% of the time than not have one at all. The weight penalty is not that bad, especially if you're on a hardtail anyway.

2. Almost every new mountain bike I've seen on the web so far comes with disk brakes. The curmudgeon in me thinks this is just an up-sell. I'm in Los Angeles during a "mega-drought", so it's not going to be muddy. Are V-brakes a good choice?

No. Discs brakes are light years better in pretty much every way. Get shimano XTs and forget about them. What bike are you going to buy that uses V-brakes anyway?

3. Should I opt for 29" wheels? I'm a very seasoned roadie, and I like the sense of speed one gets on a fast road bike. Anything that makes a mountain bike roll faster sounds good to me. Are there any downsides to 29" wheels?

Not unless you're shorter than maybe 5'6", especially on the terrain you describe.

4. Finally, if my retro tastes are all good ideas, who sells simple steel unsuspended mountain bikes new these days?

Better start looking at custom builders..

Thanks in advance for your wise advice!

[DRietz]

Unless you go shopping at WalMart, or just buy a cyclocross bike (which I think is what you really want), there's really no such thing as a v-brake 29er.

Disc brakes have dominated the mountain bike realm for years - they modulate better, are more reliable in the wet and the mud, and have the stopping power you need to get yourself out of hairball situations. And believe me, even if you don't think there will be, there will be.

My advice is to get out there and find a shop or two with demo programs, or find a friend's bike to ride.

Heck, take your roadie onto the dirt if it's firetrails and smooth single track. I do it all the time, and I also started my cycling career on a rigid single speed mountain bike. I like that sort of attention-oriented riding, but trying it is the only way for you to know if you will too.

[blilrat]

There's nothing wrong with a rigid fork for fire road or smooth singletrack riding. I would definitely get disc brakes though.

There are lots of steel options if you're willing to build from the frame up. For complete bikes with steel hardtail options, check Kona.

[John H.]

Answers down below between your questions.

I have just started thinking about getting a mountain bike. I have never owned a mountain bike before, but my idea of perfection would be a steel hard tail with rigid fork and V-brakes, perhaps fitted with 29" wheels, and kitted out with Shimano XT. (I could go aluminum if I liked the bike.) According to this thread http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=165925 my tastes are already retro-chic.

I'll ride on the gravel fire roads and single track trails in the Santa Monica mountains in L.A. (No jumping or acrobatics or floating above the bike hanging on to the seat while weightless in mid-air.) I would keep this bike for 10 years. I tend to like "back to basics" simplicity. My budget would be anywhere under $2000 but I'm flexible. My questions for this forum are:
For $2000 I say look for the nicest used carbon hardtail you can find. Something like a Specialized Stumpy- You will get most bang for buck this way. New for 2k= sort of "cheap bike"- used= sweet bike for 2k

1. Am I crazy to want a rigid fork? I understand suspension can improve a mountain bike's handling, but it just seems like a lot of extra weight. I've fooled around on full suspension mountain bikes and it felt mushy and slow, so a hard tail is a given. Would I regret not getting a suspension fork?
You are crazy- get a bike with a fork.

2. Almost every new mountain bike I've seen on the web so far comes with disk brakes. The curmudgeon in me thinks this is just an up-sell. I'm in Los Angeles during a "mega-drought", so it's not going to be muddy. Are V-brakes a good choice?
Problem is that you wont find a modern 29er with cantis- get hydraulic disc brakes. They are proven and reliable.

3. Should I opt for 29" wheels? I'm a very seasoned roadie, and I like the sense of speed one gets on a fast road bike. Anything that makes a mountain bike roll faster sounds good to me. Are there any downsides to 29" wheels?
Yes- 29er unless you are shorter than 5'8- if shorter maybe 650b. 26" is dead.
That said, if you are like 5'5 or 5'6 I have a sweet 26" Moots YBB I could sell you.

4. Finally, if my retro tastes are all good ideas, who sells simple steel unsuspended mountain bikes new these days?
Again, used carbon will be your best bet for a sweet bike.

Thanks in advance for your wise advice!

[William]

I dig my hard tail, rigid fork, disk equipped 29'er....on rocky New England trails. I grew up riding rigid frames so I don't mind it, but I guess some people find it too much work.

I would recommend going disc and 29'er. The fork type is up to you since both will work fine, but on rocky terrain you will have to pick your lines more going rigid. I find it like situational awareness though, once you're used to doing it, you don't think about it, you just do.






William

[Mayhem]

I started riding MTB's when all forks were rigid. I don't understand the recent popularity of them. It's like, why? I understand wanting a hardtail, but not a rigid fork unless you're just riding smooth trails or roads.

[JAGI410]

I'd seriously look at the Surly Krampus. The wider tires provide plenty of comfort, it's simple to maintain, and the wider tires will give you more confidence over this new terrain you'll be riding on. They are really fun and capable bikes.

Also look at the Surly Ogre, it's steel, rigid, 29er, and v brake capable.

[gdw]

If you're over 5"5" you should be able to ride a 29er. If you can build your own bike there are quite a few decent steel frames available and you should be able to build a nice XT equipped bike for under $2000. Check out the Salsa El Mariachi, Soma Juice, and Vassago Bandersnatch frames. Pair it with a decent steel fork like the the Salsa Cromoto Grande or Vassago Odis. Buy an XT or SLX group from one of the English venders and an XT wheelset from one of the Ebay stores and you'll have plenty of money left over to complete the build.

Example:
Frame Vassago Bandersnatch $550
Fork Vassago Odis $157
Group Shimano XT from Ribble $500
Wheelset Shimano XT hubs, WTB rims $250
total $1457
$543 left over for tires, seatpost, saddle, stem, etc.

If you aren't mechanical see if any of your local shops carry Salsa, Kona, or Surly. You might be able to find one in your price range.

[swPArider]

Just go with disc brakes. Your rim/wheel choices will be severely limited if you choose v-brakes.

I have a rigid singlespeed and absolutely love it. The downside to the rigid fork that I've found is cornering on wet roots, with no suspension your front wheel wants to wash out.

[d_douglas]

It has been beaten to death, but disc brakes are a game changer. And as mentioned, you likely won't find a proper 29er with V-brake mounts. Not that you'd use them.

I imagine that XT V-brakes cost almost as much as XT hydros and quite honestly, there is no comparison.

I would also recommend SLX - I 'cheaped out' and bought M675 and can't get over the quality. The brakes are amazing as well.

Rigid? Sure, why not! Use nice big tires and you have built in suspension.

[peanutgallery]

Been known to play with a rigid fork off and on but...
make life easy and your ride enjoyable: shimano, suspension fork, double ring, hydro disc, 29er, tubeless and the right tires for the conditions in which you ride. Compared to a 26" or a 27.5" its cheating in anything remotely technical

Suspension forks work pretty damn good and are very reliable unless you get something stupid light or marketed by cannondale. Reba is hard to beat. V-brakes were but a blip in MTB technology

The Surly's are OK, but you'll slip a disc putting it in a stand. 4130. As others have suggested: check out the Kona, Vassago, et. al. My recommendation to you - find a Salsa El Mariachi

Whatever you get, have fun and ride the snot out of it

[russ46]

If you're going for a built up MTB and want XT components, I think you'll find most come with a suspension fork & disc brakes. I bought mine early last summer and don't regret springing for a model with a full XT group and even though most of my rides are on dirt roads, the suspension and modulation capability of the disc brakes sure makes steep downhills on washed out roads pleasant.

[Dave Ferris]

I rode out in the Santa Monicas last Sat. Started at the top of Van Alden/Glen Eagles and went out to the Parker Mesa/Palisades overlook.

I hadn't been out there in awhile and I noticed things are very rocky and rutted, especially on dirt Mulholland. I used to live in Sherman Oaks 18 years ago and I've been using those trails/fireroads for probably close to 32 years -both running and riding. So between the drought and super high MTN bike traffic the area is pretty ravaged imo from years past.

I was on the bike for 2.5 hours and when I finished , my arthritic neck was throbbing all the way home to Glendale. And that was with a 100mm Fox shock on a Steve Potts Ti 29er with around 22psi in the tubeless Rocket Rons. I'm 61 and will move up another notch in 9 weeks fwiw.

Maybe you're younger and don't have such degenerative arthritic issues. If so , yeah now's the time if you wanna go rigid. I came from an older FS Ellsworth Truth and wanted to go back to a hardtail. If I had to ride out there all there time, as opposed to the Verdugo Mtns. by my house in Glendale, I'd have to go back to FS. The conditions are simply too brutal out there for me now. It takes away the fun factor.

I saw two 20-somethings on cross bikes climbing that hill before the Hub. I thought ...man hardcore but on the other hand, when you're that age you can do anything...lol

Before I got the Potts I agonized over the sus vs rigid here:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=141053

The first ride was back in Sept and I have just under a 1000 miles on it. I think if I'd stay solely in the Verdugos, I could've gone rigid. But no regrets. I can lock the Fox out and still have it when it's needed.

I think if we'd just get a tad of rain and people would stay off the trails till they dry out, conditions would greatly improve out there. That area, as much as I love it, is just getting to be an extension of the whole Westside with regard to density and traffic.

[redir]

I started riding MTB's when all forks were rigid. I don't understand the recent popularity of them. It's like, why? I understand wanting a hardtail, but not a rigid fork unless you're just riding smooth trails or roads.

Yup, was about to type out the exact same thing. I don't get the trend either. Do they still make cars with carburetors?

[William]

Yup, was about to type out the exact same thing. I don't get the trend either. Do they still make cars with carburetors?

Trend? I never stopped.:)





William

[peanutgallery]

It's kind of like the SS thing, adherents claim its about reliability/simplicity but reality its about passive aggressively kicking your butt with inferior technology. Sort of like dropping you on a climb while pedaling with one leg and sitting backwards on the handlebars:)

Yup, was about to type out the exact same thing. I don't get the trend either. Do they still make cars with carburetors?

[William]

It's kind of like the SS thing, adherents claim its about reliability/simplicity but reality its about passive aggressively kicking your butt with inferior technology. Sort of like dropping you on a climb while pedaling with one leg and sitting backwards on the handlebars:)

Or kicking azzzz on an old 105 equipped Fuji Roubaix, or Schwinn Peloton!!:p






William

[aosty]

Dave -

Sad to say but the chewed up plowed crap occurred in the past two weeks.

Re: If saw two road/cx bikes near the hub at around 1pm (+/- an hour), it might've been two 40-somethings. :banana:


dgauthier -

Definitely disc brakes (as already mentioned 100 times above)




I rode out in the Santa Monicas last Sat. Started at the top of Van Alden/Glen Eagles and went out to the Parker Mesa/Palisades overlook.

I hadn't been out there in awhile and I noticed things are very rocky and rutted, especially on dirt Mulholland. I used to live in Sherman Oaks 18 years ago and I've been using those trails/fireroads for probably close to 32 years -both running and riding. So between the drought and super high MTN bike traffic the area is pretty ravaged imo from years past.

I was on the bike for 2.5 hours and when I finished , my arthritic neck was throbbing all the way home to Glendale. And that was with a 100mm Fox shock on a Steve Potts Ti 29er with around 22psi in the tubeless Rocket Rons. I'm 61 and will move up another notch in 9 weeks fwiw.

Maybe you're younger and don't have such degenerative arthritic issues. If so , yeah now's the time if you wanna go rigid. I came from an older FS Ellsworth Truth and wanted to go back to a hardtail. If I had to ride out there all there time, as opposed to the Verdugo Mtns. by my house in Glendale, I'd have to go back to FS. The conditions are simply too brutal out there for me now. It takes away the fun factor.

I saw two 20-somethings on cross bikes climbing that hill before the Hub. I thought ...man hardcore but on the other hand, when you're that age you can do anything...lol

Before I got the Potts I agonized over the sus vs rigid here:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=141053

The first ride was back in Sept and I have just under a 1000 miles on it. I think if I'd stay solely in the Verdugos, I could've gone rigid. But no regrets. I can lock the Fox out and still have it when it's needed.

I think if we'd just get a tad of rain and people would stay off the trails till they dry out, conditions would greatly improve out there. That area, as much as I love it, is just getting to be an extension of the whole Westside with regard to density and traffic.

[Dave Ferris]

Hi aosty. I started early, 7 AM, to beat the heat. I was coming back from the Hub , down that steep hill, at a tad after 9 AM , so it sounds like it wasn't you. Yeah these guys were definitely 20 somethings.

Yes I ran into the bulldozers, twice, going out and coming back on the steep hill going down into Trippett. Coming down the hill, there was just the one and he had just started plowing as it was around 7:45 AM. I had to dismount and walk for only about 25 yards. Coming back though, there were two bulldozers going at it and the bike traffic was pretty heavy by this time. Everyone was coming down and I was the only one walking uphill. By this time it was well over a 100 yards schlepping through the freshly plowed mess.

I heard about the fresh mowing on Eagle Rock so I took that way, as opposed to Eagle Springs just to check things out. Man that was a brutal climb in all the deep, freshly plowed loose dirt !

Looking back, I should've just stayed in my hood, avoided the Sat. traffic, rode from my house up to the experimental forest in Burbank in the Verdugos and back. I couldn't believe the traffic on the 101 at 6:30 AM going out to the Tampa exit. It was like rush hour during the week.

[William]

...Looking back, I should've just stayed in my hood, avoided the Sat. traffic, rode from my house up to the experimental forest in Burbank in the Verdugos and back. I couldn't believe the traffic on the 101 at 6:30 AM going out to the Tampa exit. It was like rush hour during the week.


This is starting to sound like an episode of the Californians!;)







William

[svelocity]

I have to echo what most people are saying here...

Front suspension - Without a doubt yes! Modern suspension is awesome and you can lock it out when you don't need it. Frankly, I only lock it out if I have to stand and climb. Otherwise I hardly think about it. The only reason not to do suspension is if you want to go with the "plus" wheel size.

Disc Brakes - Without a doubt yes! Cantis worked, V-Brakes were better, but Disc is far and away the best. This is far from an "upsell".

29er Wheels - Everyone has an opinion on wheel size but I like the 29er wheel. Lots of tire options and if you planing on using this as an all arounder bike (gravel, XC, etc) the 29er is an excellent option. However, once you 5'6" or shorter I think you'd fit better on an 27.5 or 26er. Don't forget you do want to go tubeless.

Reserve the curmudgeon in you for road bikes. The advancements in mountain bikes is impressive and you will be happy you have it.

[djg21]

A good full suspension bike, once set up properly, will not feel mushy. I switched from a hard tail to a Spec Epic about 6 years ago (a 26" I still ride). It rides far better than my old hard tail did. The key is properly setting up the shock. Unfortunately, the cost of a good full suspension ride has gotten prohibitively expensive.

[marsh]

Find a shop that you can rent several different models from, or find some buddies with rides you can try. One of my friends was in the same predicament,
he tried a few different bikes over a month or so. He rented a Specialized Epic
and was hooked. You are the only one that knows whats best for you.

[Kirk Pacenti]

Call anytime - mountain bikes are my favorite topic and always happy to discuss.

Cheers,
KP

[William]

:p:D



http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-and-stay-rigid-1.png









William

[William]

Call anytime - mountain bikes are my favorite topic and always happy to discuss.

Cheers,
KP

Take him up on it!:cool:






William

[p nut]

I used to own full-suspension and hardtail bikes. Now my only mountain bike is a custom steel rigid 29er--non-suspension corrected. It does take getting used to, but for me, I am just as fast on my current bike as my FS bikes. !!Disclaimer!! - I am a LOT more fit now, too. :D But that is also thanks to the bike that inspires me to ride.

Now, here is the hard part--I've owned some production rigid bikes as well. Surly Karate Monkey, Vassago, Niner, Jones, Redline Monocog and Monocog Flights, Salsa El Mariachi, etc. The problem with those bikes is that they're made for people my weight (160lbs) AND people at 300lbs. Most felt super rigid and harsh. Custom lightweight tubes and an excellent custom fork made a HUGE difference--they do not even compare. Also, the wheelbase, chainstays are super long on these (all are 29ers). That always bothered me. Made the bike feel so looong and sluggish. Custom frame sports a 41.8" wheelbase and 16.5" CS. But the frameset also costs 2 to 3 times more (worth it for me). I've got either a 29x 2.4 or 3.0 tire up front as well, which takes away the sting.

Having a budget of $2k max, a Jones Diamond frame with a unicrown fork would be my pick. Carefully piecing it together, you can make it work. The front can take 26x4 or 29x3 tire, so if you need more plush up front, you can do it.

If you truly want a retro bike with v-brakes, no one does it better than McClung. Pricey, though.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/72/222758592_8208a66915.jpg

Spend an hour or so reading through this:

http://forums.mtbr.com/singlespeed/my-new-mcclung-453309.html

[wooly]

I went thru this decision a few years ago and got myself a steel hardtail with a suspension fork. I didn't ride it much. About 6 months ago I got the itch to get a full suspension rig and picked up a Santa Cruz Bronson on Craigslist. What a blast. I ride in Orange County not to far from where the OP is. The full suss bike is so much more fun that the hardtail. Now grant it I'm much less skilled than a lot of other more seasoned mtb riders on this forum so the Bronson is a total cheater bike. Point and shoot and it rolls over everything. If you want to improve your technical skills maybe a hardtail is a better option but for pure fun I'd recommend a full suspension rig.

[thirdgenbird]

It is beyond crazy and quickly approaching stupid. No question you can ride trails without a suspension fork but it sucks much of the fun out of. Everything does not have to be about the 'Challenge".

That is mearly an opinion and calling rigid stupid is ignorant. Many people (myself included) enjoy it.

Unless you go shopping at WalMart, or just buy a cyclocross bike (which I think is what you really want), there's really no such thing as a v-brake 29er.

Disc brakes have dominated the mountain bike realm for years - they modulate better, are more reliable in the wet and the mud, and have the stopping power you need to get yourself out of hairball situations. And believe me, even if you don't think there will be, there will be.

My advice is to get out there and find a shop or two with demo programs, or find a friend's bike to ride.

Heck, take your roadie onto the dirt if it's firetrails and smooth single track. I do it all the time, and I also started my cycling career on a rigid single speed mountain bike. I like that sort of attention-oriented riding, but trying it is the only way for you to know if you will too.

The all city junk yard dog has 29in wheels and rim brakes :)

I ride a full rigid 26er with v brakes and a 1x10 drivetrain. If I could change one thing about the bike, it would be disc brake tabs. Cheap discs suck. Good ones are great. My second change would be 650b wheels. Beyond that, it's perfect for me. As mentioned, it is attention oriented. I've made some mistakes and it makes you pay. The times I've gone down, I've always got up smiling.

Drietz is right on. Borrow or demo some bikes. There are tons of options and opinions differ. Rigid, hard tail, FS, 26, 650b, 29, 1x, 2x, 3x, single speed.... None of it is crazy or stupid. Find what you like and enjoy.

The exception may be a single speed cyclocross cross bike on a single track. That is crazy, stupid and fun ;)

[Dave Ferris]

Looking back, I should've just stayed in my hood, avoided the Sat. traffic, rode from my house up to the experimental forest in Burbank in the Verdugos and back. I couldn't believe the traffic on the 101 at 6:30 AM going out to the Tampa exit. It was like rush hour during the week.

This is starting to sound like an episode of the Californians!;)
William

:)

Yeah I should've taken the 210 to the 118 to the 405 North to the 101 West. That would've avoided more of the traffic.

Seriously, I stayed in the hood this morning and traversed the Verdugo Mtn. range out and back in 2:15.

My neck was bothering me again towards the end. Drag.:mad:

I might have to go back to a FS bike. The one I want -- the Bingham/Eriksen 650B FS -- I can't afford.

Maybe I'll try to borrow the Moots Mooto X YBB 29er from the manager of a LBS that I tried a few years back again. I'd be curious to see if the YBB thingy takes the edge off my neck.

[Ken Robb]

:)

Yeah I should've taken the 210 to the 118 to the 405 North to the 101 West. That would've avoided more of the traffic.

Seriously, I stayed in the hood this morning and traversed the Verdugo Mtn. range out and back in 2:15.

My neck was bothering me again towards the end. Drag.:mad:

I might have to go back to a FS bike. The one I want -- the Bingham/Eriksen 650B FS -- I can't afford.

Maybe I'll try to borrow the Moots Mooto X YBB 29er from the manager of a LBS that I tried a few years back again. I'd be curious to see if the YBB thingy takes the edge off my neck.

I have an arthritic neck and getting my bars high enough that I don't have to bend my head back "against the stop" in my upper spine helps even more than FS.

[dgauthier]

Thank you very much to everyone who posted here. Once again, you've demonstrated this is the best cycling forum on the web!

I hear you loud and clear. I expected people might endorse front suspension over rigid forks (I've never ridden a mountain bike that didn't have one), but I am genuinely surprised at the near universal support for disk brakes over anything else. I had no idea.

Support for rear suspension seems somewhat more muted, so I'll stick with my original choice to go hard-tail. I'm discovering wheel size seems to vary with frame size in mountain bikes (not true at all in road bikes unless a frame is *tiny*). I stand six feet even, so it looks like 29-ers are the only correct choice.

I'm at step one, so thanks again for setting me on the right path! This is going to be fun . . . :)

[p nut]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4011/4531253836_f8e674f032_b.jpg

[thirdgenbird]

I stand six feet even, so it looks like 29-ers are the only correct choice

Not nesisarily. I am 6'1" and I would go 650b if I were buying new. Again, it is a preference thing.

If I did enough off-roading to warrant a nice bike, I would do: 650b, hardtail, fox fork, SLX brakes, zee 1x10 and maybe a dropper post.

[KF9YR]

:)



Yeah I should've taken the 210 to the 118 to the 405 North to the 101 West. That would've avoided more of the traffic.



Seriously, I stayed in the hood this morning and traversed the Verdugo Mtn. range out and back in 2:15.



My neck was bothering me again towards the end. Drag.:mad:



I might have to go back to a FS bike. The one I want -- the Bingham/Eriksen 650B FS -- I can't afford.



Maybe I'll try to borrow the Moots Mooto X YBB 29er from the manager of a LBS that I tried a few years back again. I'd be curious to see if the YBB thingy takes the edge off my neck.


My Eriksen/ Bingham FS arrived in Feb and I think it's a fantastic bike.

[p nut]

Wheelsize doesn't matter as much as the geometry. I've got a 29er that is better handling and more nimble than my old 26" bike.

[pdmtong]

unlike road bikes what works best for you in a mtb is going to depend a lot on your terrain and skills. There are constant changes in the mtb world. Every year the bikes get better and better Your original spec was great in 1985. Are you shopping for a downtube shift road bike too?

Don't be surprised by the universal acceptance of discs. Better speed management in all conditions is a game changer.

Suspension will make any ride more comfortable and line choice more forgiving. There are situations where hardtails shine. There are situations where FS shine
If I could only pick one I would go FS and lock it out it the trail is smoother. Best of both with a small weight penalty. As a beginner the only way you can probably get a rigid bike is custom which is contrary to your place on the learning curve

[Dave Ferris]

My Eriksen/ Bingham FS arrived in Feb and I think it's a fantastic bike.

Yes I noticed a post of yours about it. Not too many of them out there yet. Big congrats ! :banana: I'd love to have one. :cool:

A ride report if you get a minute ? :)

[vqdriver]

i'll just toss in my .02

i started riding on a fully rigid mtb and flogged that thing for years. much fun. a lot. then i rode road only for a long while before i got the itch and tried it again with a fully suspended titus. read all the broohaha about hardtails and got myself a spooky darkside built for speed and climbing badassitude. and altho the hype isn't hype if it's correct, the spooky just wasn't doing it for me. i was most certainly faster and cleaned more climbs on it, but i just wasn't having as much fun. so the spooky moved on and the titus is still in my garage.
all 26" i should add.


i think it ultimately depends on what you want out of the sport. because unlike a road bike, your mtn bike can determine how you ride. what lines you pick, what gearing you want, whether you grind or spin, how you shift your weight, etc. to a certain extent your local trails/terrain will dictate the bike, but people can ride rigid over pretty much anything, and loads of people ride full suspension on gravel roads too. if it's fun for you that's all that matters. pick what you like and bombs away. it's a blast.

[pdmtong]

i think it ultimately depends on what you want out of the sport. because unlike a road bike, your mtn bike can determine how you ride. what lines you pick, what gearing you want, whether you grind or spin, how you shift your weight, etc. to a certain extent your local trails/terrain will dictate the bike, but people can ride rigid over pretty much anything, and loads of people ride full suspension on gravel roads too. if it's fun for you that's all that matters. pick what you like and bombs away. it's a blast.

well said. of course you can ride rigid over anything. thats how it was 30 years ago. but guess what? in 2015 those same trails I can rip waaaaay faster with a FS and disc which equals a lot more fun. What newbies do not realize is that speed is your friend...too slow down a steep rocked out section and you will surely crash. you need speed to carry through the section - suspension and speed management via discs enable this.

[p nut]

well said. of course you can ride rigid over anything. thats how it was 30 years ago. but guess what? in 2015 those same trails I can rip waaaaay faster with a FS and disc which equals a lot more fun. What newbies do not realize is that speed is your friend...too slow down a steep rocked out section and you will surely crash. you need speed to carry through the section - suspension and speed management via discs enable this.

We all have our personal preferences. Close to 20 years of mountain biking, I find that more speed does not always equal more fun. Different fun, maybe. I actually like picking my way through the chunky sections on a rigid bike, vs blasting through it on a 150mm F/S. I find I don't wreck as much as I did on the F/S, either. In some cases, I am slower through those rocky parts, perhaps. But more time on the trail is a better day, I say.

[pdmtong]

We all have our personal preferences. Close to 20 years of mountain biking, I find that more speed does not always equal more fun. Different fun, maybe. I actually like picking my way through the chunky sections on a rigid bike, vs blasting through it on a 150mm F/S. I find I don't wreck as much as I did on the F/S, either. In some cases, I am slower through those rocky parts, perhaps. But more time on the trail is a better day, I say.

Agreed, picking a line vs blasting is all in the style of riding you want to enjoy. Like you I have done and enjoy both. In some ways suspension has destroyed one element of the purity of the sport. Anyone with nerve can just rip it through a rock garden, versus taking the time to see a line and bounce, stop, turn, and pick at it rigidly. That said, suspension IMHO makes riding a lot more forgiving for a new rider.

Most beginners won't have the balance, analysis or instantaneous power + traction skills to pull some moves, so they are better off keeping their speed and trusting in the bike to clean sections. That's the speed perspective I am talking about - not just letting it rip and then squeezing the disc. Too many times new riders get freaked, and slow to a crawl, which often leads to an endo when they stick the front wheel at 1mph

[Repack Rider]

There are so many variables involved that what works for me probably doesn't work for you. Your terrain, ability, fitness, leg length, weight and goals are all unique. My bike habit is sponsored; I don't choose them, I just ride what I get and they are all great, because nearly every modern bike is pretty good.

Get a bike, any bike that you can afford. Ride it. Either keep it or trade it in if you need more bike.

Do not take advice on what to buy from anyone.