Traditional vs. Compact Ottrott

[jerry]

I'm buying an Ottrott ST & the dealer is recommending using a compact frame "to show more seatpost" and be a little more current (my other bike is a '72 chrome Schwinn Paramount, updated for index shifting).

My concern with the compact frame is pairing it with the longer carbon post, which I think may make the ride too flexible. In particular, with the bearing pivot stays and all carbon rear triangle, I am concerned that I would wind up with a too-springy ride. Thoughts?? Thanks.

[Bruce K]

You could build your like mine - 1/2 way (see Image Gallery)

There is a 6cm length difference between "traditional" and compact geometry.

Since your Ottrott ST is likely custom anyway - specify a seatpost 3cm shorter. This will give you a sloped top tube ("modern") look with a little less post.

The ride of mine (effectively 53X53) is superb. Not too flexible and everything works the way it's supposed to.

Just a thought....

BK

[Sandy]

Jerry, What does your lbs mean by being a little more current? If that means to make your bike look more like some of the newer bikes, I hardly think that is a sensible reason to make it compact. Personally, I do not like the look of compact bicycles at all, especially ones with a significantly downward sloping top tube. Some say the compact designs are better, some say the more traditional designs are better. I have a 2 degree downward slope on my tt and it is hardly noticeable, and that was done only because of standover considerations. If you prefer a traditional look, which I certainly do, then go for it, unless your fitter can give you a sensible, not aesthetic reason, why a compact should be used. My Serotta Ottrott ST is a virtual 59 cm, with a 57 cm seat tube, a virtual 57 cm top tube, and the 2 degree downward sloping top tube. Choose the look that you want.

[dbrk]

FWIW the so-called "current" look of compacts isn't all that current. You may recall that Bontrager's Race Lite, back when Keith owned the company and built road bikes, was a sloper in the early 1990s. These were odd birds in their day, thought of as road bikes built by a mtn bike builder. Ibis also built their Road Ti originally with a sloping toptube, enough to notice so it must have been about 5d or more. If you use more than 8d you'll likely feel the post, at least that's my experience.

I like slopers, not as much as level top tube traditionalists, but on a high zooter like an Ottrott I find the sloper to be a real option. It's only when it's steel and lugged that I get real religion, but lugs don't like compacting anyway. One good thing you can do with the compact is eliminate the ht extension in nearly every case. I am puzzled why slopers would have ht extensions, though at least three of mine do and, well, they shouldn't. A compact is not a compromise the way a ht extension is. HT extensions got into vogue because of the "improvment" brought to us all with threadless headsets: we lost stack height, got smokestack spacer looks, and no real mechanical advantage. So, as I see it, compacts are an aesthetic decision but accomplish a taller front end as at least one positive.

Anyway, on an Ottrott I think it looks right. How it looks to you is about all that matters. But a more "modern" look? Nahhh. There's isn't much that hasn't been done before, most of it is marketing or fashion, and ain't much wrong with that, just know it for what it is.

dbrk

[Len J]

Do you like the look of a sloping frame? If not, don't do it.

If you like the look, then how much slope so you want? I have a 2 degree slope to get the bars up that is hardly noticable, OTOH, I have seen one of Dave's Bikes that (I think) had over 10 degrees.

A reasonable rule of thumb is that for a 56 CM TT, every one degree of rise equates to 1 cm of difference at either the Head tube (If you don't vary the seat tube) or the seat tube (If you don't vary the Head tube) compared to a regular square frame.

You can use a photo editor to see how different slopes look.

As far as the ride goes, some people swear that a compact is more responsive, especially climbing. I have never felt that. With a Serotta, you can tune the ride you want, so this is a non-issue. That leaves Looks. What do you like?

Len

[M_A_Martin]

How long will you keep the bike? If you're planning on a five year turn around, "looking current" might be something to consider.

If my fitter was helping choose the design of my bike by what looked "current" I would find myself another fitter who was more concerned with what fit me rather than what was on the latest magazine pages.

There's nothing wrong with a sloper. All sorts of mountain bikes have them and they work just fine.

Mary Ann

[Sandy]

Per usual, M A Martin makes sense again, and again, and again.

[dnovo]

"OTOH, I have seen one of Dave's Bikes that (I think) had over 10 degrees."

Yes, actually, my Legend Ti OS Compact that I assume you refer to (or my filet Kirk which was built to the same 'layout') is either 14.5 or 15 slope, can't find the *&%$# build sheet. AAnd I am considering a CXII with a 16 degree slope.

Why? Short legs, longish torso, bad back. The extreme compact gives me stand over, a high head tube (we use an extended HT and the 16 deg will let me cut down the existing stack height) for my bad back, and I like the look quite a bit.

For 'normal' people, it is simply a question of what do you like the look of better. Dave N.

[Russ]

Hi Jerry,

I went through the same deal with my LBS. I said to them that I was not so concerned about how much SP would be showing a as to how the bike would feel in the end. The thing that I was really trying to avoid was a huge heat tube extension, however.

I dislike very much the looks of a completely aggressive compact geometry. So I went with something like Bruce K's (on the back, at least), this equaled something like a degree or two; I also have much less head tube extension than Bruce and my stem is (will not be) as high.

When my bike is finally put together, some time next month, I will post a picture or two for everyone's enjoyment.

[Bruce K]

Russ;

How much less HT extension could you have?

My Ottrott has an extra 1cm HT extension over "standard". This was done to cut down on the amount of spacers.

It's interesting that you noticed it as most people don't seem to see it at all. You have good eyes kimosabee.

BK

[Kevin]

Jerry,

Get the set-up that fits you best. Who cares if it is trendy. The important thing is how it rides.

Kevin

[victoryfactory]

Sure, compact is trendy, but for me a 5 degree compact solved a fit problem that I've had as long as I've been riding, namely, it allows reasonable standover clearance for my ape-like legs while at the same time keeps the front end of the bike at the right height.
IMO, don't go for compact to save weight or to get more stiffness, these are negligable. But if you have short legs, like me it's great.

As far as riding feel, I can't even tell the top tube is sloping at all while riding

VF, who always shows too much post