OT - vacation homes??

[2wheelwill]

My wife and I recently discovered an amazing community in the Sierras. It's located only 1 1/2 from our home and has great summer cycling and winter skiing. We leased a cabin in the area this winter as a trial run and we really enjoyed our time with the kids and having friends up for the weekend. So now the winter lease is ending and my wife REALLY wants to buy a place of our own. I'm on the fence.

I realize everyone's personal and financial situation is different but wonder if there are any vacation homeowners out there with words of wisdom for us. I have two main concerns:

First, we have 4 and a 6 year old girls who are starting to get into soccer, gymnastics and who knows what's next - My first concern is that weekends will evaporate as my kids get older and we'll never use the cabin. Not to mention that teenage girls may not want to head to the mountains with their parents even if their weekends are free.

Concern #2 is mostly financial. I want to retire early so my approach would be to pay-off the cabin before I retire (in 7 years) and then factor in the ongoing costs (taxes, insurance, etc) into my retirement plan (probably about $800 per month). My wife thinks I'm too conservative. Her approach would be to put as little down and finance for a full 30 years. Her logic is that interest rates are low so we should use as little of our own money as possible, use the cabin for 10-15 years, and then sell it. She thinks our time horizon is long enough that we will enjoy some level of appreciation.

I'm a frugal guy (except when it comes to bikes) so buying something as extravagant as a vacation home is way out of my comfort zone. But the potential for family memories by the lake and exposing my kids to the great outdoors is hard to quantify. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks!





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[Mr. Pink]

Frugal people don't buy vacation homes.

[veloduffer]

Is the area one where you can easily rent it out for portions of the year? This could defeat the cost immensely. As for kids activities, sports travel teams go away a lot and would definitely impede with your usage.

Other questions are how secure is your household income? College savings? Would this vacation home sell quickly if you needed to sell? Would you tire of the place? Cost of utility bills? Association Fees and assessments?

I'd put it all down on a spreadsheet to see what the total cost and impact on your current household budget.

[CNY rider]

Also think about routine maintenance: How much does it need and who is doing it?
90 minutes is a long way to go to mow or deal with a "minor" plumbing issue.

If you are going to use it in the winter that means you will not be draining the pipes, and you will be leaving the water on.
How will you monitor and manage that?

We have a lakefront camp 20 minutes away from our home. We have young children. We looked at a radius around our home of 90 minutes before we bought and there have been many times I am really glad we got something close to home.

[AngryScientist]

i've considered this myself, and my wife is pretty set against it. her reasoning, which is very valid is that we like to vacation seeing new and different places. having a vacation home in a fixed location can mean that the valuable time i get off of work is spent in the same place every time and would limit the traveling we would do. it could and does work very well for some people and completely depends on the details of the arrangement, i think. CNY's advice is good above too.

[gomango]

Oops, not enough coffee. :)

[gomango]

We have a nice arrangement.

I help do the "fix-it" work at the family cabin near the BWCA and we get to visit anytime during the summer season.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3893/14382829020_db32803791_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nUXKYG)Family cabin on the edge of the BWCA (https://flic.kr/p/nUXKYG) by gomango1849 (https://www.flickr.com/people/36270004@N06/), on Flickr


Sometimes the "fix-it" work is a little more involved.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3881/14382903379_5746bba379_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nUY95K)IMG_2017 (https://flic.kr/p/nUY95K) by gomango1849 (https://www.flickr.com/people/36270004@N06/), on Flickr

The rewards are sure worth it though. :)

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3900/14566138231_8cdab0dc17_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ocagqk)IMG_2031 (https://flic.kr/p/ocagqk) by gomango1849 (https://www.flickr.com/people/36270004@N06/), on Flickr

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3919/14569522655_fd1daa3865_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ocsBut)IMG_2029 (https://flic.kr/p/ocsBut) by gomango1849 (https://www.flickr.com/people/36270004@N06/), on Flickr

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5594/14624567227_3d569e4eb2_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ohjJjP)Big BWCA Smallie. (https://flic.kr/p/ohjJjP) by gomango1849 (https://www.flickr.com/people/36270004@N06/), on Flickr

[Ralph]

If you do this on the asumption that it will be a good long term investment, I question that asumption. It might, it might not be one.

If you do it just because you want a place there, and can afford all the unexpected costs and hassle involved, and profit motive not involved in decision making, that's a different thing.

And you are correct in thinking the kids, as they get older, won't be as thrilled about going there as you will be. They tend to get there own lives going.

And I know from experience the thrill of visiting nice vacation spots wears off over time as the hassle factor and family complexity kicks in.

[cfox]

Frugal people don't buy vacation homes.

This sums it up perfectly. Unless you are a savvy real estate investor, and are convinced it's a good investment, vacations homes are a bad idea. I know a few people sunk by vacation homes. Rule of thumb: If your primary home isn't paid off (or at least fully defeased) don't buy a vacation home. My former boss, a financial genius, owns his own jet but doesn't own a vacation home. He'd rather rent an awesome place for the time he's there, then leave the keys on the table and then not think about it until he decides to (maybe) visit that place again.

Houses are a giant pain in the ass, I can't possibly see why anyone would want more than one.

[soulspinner]

Frugal people don't buy vacation homes.

Your definition of frugal is frugal..............:rolleyes:

[tmf]

I don't have personal experience, but know that if you are considering renting it out you have to take into account the most desirable rental dates and if that would overlap with the dates that you would want to be there.

My gut feeling is that you could usually do better financially to pay for the times you want to go up there when you want to go, or any other places you decide to go. My dad has had two different vacation homes, and both times he ended up spending more time there and selling his "primary" house. This was after we kids weren't in the home any longer.

Perhaps the idea of a vacation home at some point would work out, but consider the timing of doing it later. You could save in the meantime to pay cash for it down the road.

[eddief]

of experiencing more variety? If you want to create memories there are millions of place to do that. Why not be creative and find new and interesting places to take the family whenever the mood strikes?

I understand the desire to OWN your own place...and I see the other side of wanting to go hither and yon to different places. Have you been over to Sierra Valley. It's nice there too. Damn nice.

On the other hand, I heard somewhere you only live once, so why not try it, you might love it. If not, you sell it and move on.

[redir]

Personally I think it sounds like a PIA to maintain and keep up with. I think it's better to just rent and then you are not obligated and you can go where ever you want. My wife and I have a couple of regular spots, St. Austine FL being one of them, and we've thought about it but it's just too much of a commitment and potentially a money pit.

I guess if you are really in love with a place then it makes sense. But only an hour and a half away is more like a day trip anyway.

[93legendti]

Regardless of the decision to buy, if you do buy, I agree with your wife.

[vav]

My wife thinks I'm too conservative. Her approach would be to put as little down and finance for a full 30 years. Her logic is that interest rates are low so we should use as little of our own money as possible, use the cabin for 10-15 years, and then sell it. She thinks our time horizon is long enough that we will enjoy some level of appreciation.

I'm a frugal guy (except when it comes to bikes)
Thanks!


I'd go with your wife's and "pork barrel" a David Kirk or a Pegoretti or whatever rocks your boat ;) win-win

[Ken Robb]

My sister/bro-in-law have traded up 3 times near Donner Summit. They have 7 kids all now adults but they have used/enjoyed owning second homes there. They play on Donner Lake and Lake Tahoe in the Summer and ski/board in the Winter.

Leslie and I used to get to use it in August when their family had to get back to San Diego for school and Fall athletics. Now there is no "off-season" for them because the kids can/do pop up there spur-of-the-moment year-round. One niece is a teacher in SF so she caneasily drive up for a couple of days but most of the family flies in. They keep an old suburban near the Reno Airport. It is a 10 hour drive from San Diego.

I don't know how much they have spent overall but I know they have sold their previous homes for more than they paid. The on-going enjoyment for the whole family has been priceless.

I would want a second home to be no more than 1.5 hour drive because the cost of flying and renting a car would be a deal-killer for me. I think it's often possible to rent the same place every year for the time)s) that you want and that may very well be the least costly way to do it. OTOH it's hard to put a value on the warm fuzzy feeling of stepping into your own happy place. It's also easier to get there spur-of-the-moment when you don't have to pack anything because your stuff if already there.

Our twist on this was to buy a boat big enough for overnights and small-scale entertaining. It was an expensive toy but a cheap second home on the water with pool, spa, etc. on-site and lots of good restaurants nearby. It was only a 30 minute drive from home and we had some fun but, in the end, maintaining the boat was too much trouble for the amount of use we got so we sold it. Leslie is still working a lot and rarely gets 2 days off in a row or we probably would have used it more.

[mgm777]

I don't have a vacation home, but live in an area where many people do. However, I do have kids that are active in sports, mostly competitive soccer. We have a freshman in high school and a 7th grader. Living in Colorado, many of our friends have second homes near the ski resorts. I can affirm for you, first hand, that as your kids get older, their sports and school activities will start encroaching on their weekends. Our family loves to ski, but there simply isn't much time to do that, as the kids get older and busier. Many of our friends who own the second homes either rent them out or are trying to sell them outright, since they don't get to use them as much as they had hoped. One of our closest family friends has a home that was inherited from his parents, along with his four siblings. They share the annual expenses and also share weekends at the home. However, he often advises that with the money he spends every year in just upkeep, he could instead stay at the nicest hotel in Vail or any of the other resorts and not be tied down to one specific place.

[SlackMan]

Some good thoughts above already. I'll just add one, which is more of a question than a thought. We are firmly in the camp of going different places and not being tied to vacationing in one place, which is why we don't have a vacation home. However, we did rent out the same beach house in Florida for many years in a row after our son was born. He came to view it as "our" house, and has many great memories of it. In contrast, we have also taken him on vacations to more exotic places, e.g., Hawaii, Australia, Grand Canyon, Vancouver, etc.. In contrast to his memories of the beach house in Florida, the other "one-off" spots seems to play smaller roles in his happy memories. It is as if the one-off places are all jumbled together in his memory, and it seems he even forgets some of the really cool things we experienced at the one-off places.

The punchline is that I could certainly see an adult looking back on a single vacation destination that he or she visited many times as a child, and having deep and fond memories of the times. The one-off places might not add much to the 'happy memories' for some people, even if they are more exciting at the time. Does that make any sense?

[cfox]

re: getting busy with kids' activities as they get older; forget a weekend home, we hardly ever use the pool we put in, and that's 80 feet from the house. It was great in the 4yr to 9yr old range, but now sports get in the way.

Another thing to consider with kids/vacations homes; is it your dream or your entire family's dream? A friend has always dreamed of having a beach house in Rhode Island. Well, she realized that dream last year. Well guess what? It's pulling teeth to drag her 10yr old and 12yr old up there. How fun is a weekend place with two miserable kids?

[Ken Robb]

This thread reminds me of the movie "On Golden Pond". I think it's terrific and is very much about the meaning of a Summer home to a family.

[Mr. Pink]

I'll get specific here. At the moment, I am packing up to leave a two month condo rental in Summit County, Co..
I paid $4800 for a 70s era two bedroom right on Lake Dillon with nice views. Fortunately, I had a roomate that halved that cost. So, for 2400, I had a very adaquate and comfortable bed and kitchen ten minutes from great skiing, not new or luxurious, but who really needs that, and Friday I just walk away, no muss or fuss. I'll take that any day over owning a home a thousand miles or more away from the primary home.

Edit: VRBO and HomeAway are your friends here.

[merlinmurph]

For another example, a group of friends have the best-case scenario.

A number of friends have bought places on/near a lake in NH. They are all in the same neighborhood, all have kids, there's lots of other kids, so the kids have a blast. These are their summer friends. They can walk around safely, even at night. They are either at the beach, out on the lake, or at someone's house. Never a dull moment and great memories for them. Most of my friends have had houses up there for 20+ years and it has worked out for them.

Not for me, though, for reasons previously mentioned. My wife and I even considered getting a place on the same lake with our friends, but we like to go to different places.

Good luck with your decision.

[Bradford]

I think the value depends on what you like to do and what you want your family experience to be. For me, where I live, a place in the mountains would be worth the money. I would also stretch out the payments and not try to pay it off. With interest rates still low, you can take out a 30 year and cut your costs way down. Just make sure there is no pre-payment penalty and give yourself the option to accelerate the time period if you want to later.

I live in Colorado and have a different experience than MGM777. All of my friends who have a ski condo, all of whom have kids, love their places. I just had lunch with a colleague yesterday who has owned in the mountains for the last 20 years and is advising I buy one.

The key here is that they are ski condos that are in places that are great in the summer also. We are going to ski 25-30 days every winter anyway, so people here aren't going a couple of weeks a year, they are going for weekends all year. Owing a place reduces the hassle considerably since you leave all your equipment and clothes in the mountains so you don't have to pack. You also don't have to track down a VRBO condo 3 weekends a month,. Owning also means you can drive whenever you want (leave early, stay late) and avoid traffic, which is a problem here. So, in the case of a ski condo, owning costs more but the hassle is significantly less for something we are going to do anyway.

We avoid the sports hassle by not putting our kids in winter sports or travel summer sports. As someone who grew up playing competitive hockey, usually on 2 or 3 teams at a time, I do not value the experience. I would have rather focused on life-long activities than on something like hockey. My kids fish, backpack, ride, and ski...all lifetime activities, and also all things you do in the mountains. Hockey, basketball, soccer, and baseball are all things that you do when you don't live close enough to the mountains to get out and enjoy nature.

[Mr. Pink]

Well, I will modify my last post by saying that, if I was a 9-5 M-F Denver resident, I'd probably consider a condo up in Summit just to avoid the godawful traffic on I70 on the weekends. And, yes, the summers are pretty awesome up here. But, I like summers back east more. Better biking.

[Ralph]

I personally would not purchase a vacation home at this time, even if I wanted one. Especially with most real estate going up in price for the past 5 years or so. And in some areas of US approaching bubble territory.

However.....when during the next recession, that mountain cabin goes to about 1/2 current price, I might feel differently. So many second homes get bought with lines of credit on primary homes, they are very vulnerable to any economic slow down.

[Mr. Pink]

I personally would not purchase a vacation home at this time, even if I wanted one. Especially with most real estate going up in price for the past 5 years or so. And in some areas of US approaching bubble territory.

However.....when during the next recession, that mountain cabin goes to about 1/2 current price, I might feel differently. So many second homes get bought with lines of credit on primary homes, they are very vulnerable to any economic slow down.

That's what I thought in '09 when the world was mired in financial chaos. I swore that a lot of these ski condos up in the mountains would be a dime a dozen as they filtered through foreclosure and bankruptcy courts. Well, ff to now, and it's almost the opposite. The combination of awfully cheap money and the rise of the top 5% has floated the entire market. Trust me, the ski industry, a frivolous activity in our economy if there ever was one, is doing very well these days. Many may be jobless and have no real assets, but, there's an element, probably the top 5%, as I mentioned, that are doing well. Lord knows how deeply in debt they are and how they will retire, but, for now, the slopes are crowded.

[pjmsj21]

Based upon the ages of your kids I would be hesitant to take on such a commitment. My wife and I are in our mid 60's and we purchased a home on Bainbridge Island that we operate as a vacation rental using VRBO.

As such it is in essence a small business that we operate and in return for our labor every week other people pay are paying off the mortgage.

If you are not going to rent it out then the question gets a lot easier to understand and it then becomes purely economic.....ie can you afford it. I view vacation homes as boats (which I love btw). Most are an emotional purchase and ultimately get sold when owners find that they just don't have the time they thought they had to use them.

[verticaldoug]

Depending on how sports orientated the town is, you probably have until your first daughter turns 12 before crunch time. (Unless she goes competitive gymnastics which starts younger) At around 12/13 if their school is competitive sports orientated the summer leagues/camps start to take over. By the time they are freshmen in high school, the showcase events takeover and Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter holidays will be gone too. However, maybe your children decide they don't like the time commitment of sports and just have fun. Then the cabin will get plenty of use during the teenage years too.

In the meantime, you have 5 or 6 years to build great memories at the cabin. If the area has good resale history, then have fun and do it. I enjoy the memories of my children growing up more than any money.

[krhea]

Do it!

We have 3 kids, they grew up using the cabin and loved it. Some of our best memories are of our cabin adventures. Our kids are now 12, 17 and 20...they still love the cabin, our 12yr old has her birthday party overnights there, our 17yr old takes his boy scout buddies there and our 20yr old just hangs out and chills. Both our kids are competitive athletes, our son is a swimmer and our daughter a competitive rock climber and tennis player, neither of their sports have interfered with our cabin usage.

I us it as a base camp for mountain rides with my buddies, my wife takes her friends up for girlfriend hikes. My wife and I also sneak away to just relax on occasion without the kids. It's only about 1hr15minutes from our home, perfect for a quick last minute weekend trip.

It'll be in our family forever, one of the best purchases we've ever made...AND, when we're not there, it has about an 85% occupancy rate so it also puts money in our pockets.

[OtayBW]

The concept of retiring with 2 homes seems pretty luxurious - never crossed my mind, personally - but if that works for you, then go for it.

[rounder]

Our situation is different.

We have a small place on a small lake about 10 miles from the Maine coast. My folks bought it about 50 years ago and it was near relatives.

My sisters and I went there every year for vacation. My mother spent every summer there for about the past 20 years.

Our daughter and her cousins went there every year for vacation.

Our granddaughter (4) has been there for every year. When they arrive, her dog runs and jumps in the lake.

My mother gave the place to my sister and me. It is nothing special as a cottage, but we love it. The main costs are taxes and insurance. Everything else is cheap. Driving time is 12+ hours.

[mgm777]

We avoid the sports hassle by not putting our kids in winter sports or travel summer sports. As someone who grew up playing competitive hockey, usually on 2 or 3 teams at a time, I do not value the experience. I would have rather focused on life-long activities than on something like hockey. My kids fish, backpack, ride, and ski...all lifetime activities, and also all things you do in the mountains. Hockey, basketball, soccer, and baseball are all things that you do when you don't live close enough to the mountains to get out and enjoy nature.

Bradford -- You played on 3 hockey teams, simultaneously? Seriously? And you didn't enjoy it? Didn't your parents allow you free-will? My kids play soccer(their choice) and are also expert skiers, as they both have been on the slopes since they were four years old. As a CO native, I grew up in the mountains and have provided my kids all the "lifetime activities" associated with the mountains. They can do and enjoy all activities. For them, it is not a choice between organized sports(which you didn't enjoy) which as you say you do when you don't live near the mountains(we do) and "lifetime" mountain activities. Your broad generalizations don't apply, based on my experience.

[Ken Robb]

Bradford -- You played on 3 hockey teams, simultaneously? Seriously? And you didn't enjoy it? Didn't your parents allow you free-will? My kids play soccer(their choice) and are also expert skiers, as they both have been on the slopes since they were four years old. As a CO native, I grew up in the mountains and have provided my kids all the "lifetime activities" associated with the mountains. They can do and enjoy all activities. For them, it is not a choice between organized sports(which you didn't enjoy) which as you say you do when you don't live near the mountains(we do) and "lifetime" mountain activities. Your broad generalizations don't apply, based on my experience.
This is a little contentious/rude though I don't think you meant it to be so.

[2wheelwill]

Some really good perspective...thank you all. I didn't do an official count but seems like opinions leaned somewhat against the idea of vacation homes. I'm definitely leaning towards not doing it due to the financial obligation, maintenance and uncertainty about life with tweens. But those of you who expressed fond family memories at the cabin, and enjoying the outdoors with your kids, makes me want to pull the trigger. This feels like the ultimate first world problem...


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[Louis]

I agree with the "one house is enough hassle, who needs two?" approach.

If you're really looking adventure I'd travel and rent something there. As Americans we're so lucky to have a huge variety of options to choose from: PNW, desert SW, Minn lakes, New England, Rocky Mountains, etc, etc, etc. And don't forget the cities - a week in NYC or Chicago can be just as memorable as a week in Hawaii.

I say don't tie yourself down - go for variety.

Have Fun :)

[Bradford]

Bradford -- You played on 3 hockey teams, simultaneously? Seriously? And you didn't enjoy it...

I enjoyed it until I was 14 or so. Most of that time, it was they only thing I cared about. I was obsessed with hockey and did nothing else. But none of that has stuck with me, other the arthritis and the knee surgeries. While I was focused on practice and games, traveling all over New England and Canada, my peers were focused on school. They were much better off. I'm not bitter I gave up so much to play hockey, I just think it wasn't a wise use of my time.

Luckily one of the teams I played for when I was 14 drew from both the North Shore and South shore of Boston and I realized that while I may have been the best player in my town, and one of the best in my part of Massachusetts, I wasn't good enough to go pro (those kids were so much better than I was, and only a couple of them made the NHL). I'm lucky it happened then and I was able to pivot my focus to school, which happened about as late as it could have and still turn out well. I was way behind and busted my hump to get into a good school. Had I not played on that team, it would have been too late to turn my attention to more productive pursuits.

Most of the kids I grew up playing hockey with, especially the good skaters, ended up at average schools and graduated into average careers. (One won a sliver medal in Olympic speed skating, but I can't think of another that was really successful). The dorks I grew up with who were focused on school during those years weren't cool or popular outside of the other dorks, but mostly ended up with good jobs and good lives. We as a society put a lot emphasis on team sports for kids, and I did when I was a kid, but I just don't value that time in my life now and I don't think it was good for me.

What was good for me was time with my family and turning my focus to school. Once I was on my own, learning to backpack, fish, re-learing to ride a bike, and learning to ski had lasting positive impacts on my life. The only think hockey left me with is an old man's body at too young of an age.

I live in a place as densely populated with kids as any town in America. I see plenty of parents obsessed with their kids soccer, baseball, and even competitive cheer. They devote much of their time, and too much of their money, traveling around watching their kids play sports that they will likely stop playing during, or at the end of, high school.

I wish for a better life for my kids. I want them to learn things as kids that they can do for their whole lives, and eventually with their kids. I don't want them obsessed with kids games that put too much stress on young bodies. I want them to learn to love and respect nature. And I want them to learn things that last a lifetime.

I think a lot about my childhood. The things I remember the most fondly are the times I spent with my family. I played more hockey between the ages of 4 and 18 than most people do of any one thing in their life, and I think about it very little. Mostly I think of it when I can't walk in the morning or can't get down a set of stairs without pain. I loved it most the time, liked it the rest, but took almost none of it past my last high school game.

None of my opinions are either generalizations or broad, they are all concrete and specific to my life. They may not apply to yours, they may not apply to anyone's, but they absolutely apply to mine. My job as a parent is to give my kids the best childhood I can based on what I have learned in my life. I played one sport exclusively as until I was in high school and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

So I value a place in the mountains much more than having my kid play basketball in the winter or soccer in the summer. My son likes soccer and baseball and he plays both. I even spend a lot of time working with him on baseball so he can keep getting better. (I don't understand soccer or I'd help him there too). But we don't let him play organized winter sports and we skip about a third of his baseball games in the summer for family trips (Mesa Verde/Durango/Ouray/Colorado National Monument last year, Yellowstone this year).

I'll probably buy a place in the mountains in the next few years, and when we do, my son will probably play fewer organized sports and do more things in the mountains. Most importantly, he will spend time with his parents and his sister. We have close friends who have made the opposite decision. They have an undersized five year-old son and they are giving up their ski pass next year so he can play organized basketball. I think that is just nuts, and my friend's wife thinks it is absolutely the best decision they could make. As Mark Knopfler once said, "two of them think they're Jesus, one of them must be wrong." I guess time will tell which one.

[weisan]

Thank you Bradford pal.

[nm87710]

Good Luck

[93legendti]

We have a family home in Northern Michigan. My mother spent her summers there, we spent lots of time there as kids, my kids and brother's kids all enjoy spending time there. Good skiing, great riding... Good times.

[cfox]

Youth sports...fascinating topic and good fodder for its own thread.

[oldfatslow]

Mine is below.

Also, my house is 75 minutes from my primary residence (but a world away) so it's very reachable meaning we get to use it very frequently. I would feel like many about the proposition of buying a house 500 miles away.

If any of you make it to Austin and want to get some riding in on the sublime roads of the Texas Hill Country let me know and I can make that happen.

[fuzzalow]

We had annually rented on a seasonal basis a home in Manchester VT area for the ski season. That worked until the first kid and then the hassle wasn't worth it anymore. In all honesty, the whole thing just felt like a grind after season after season - and we both like to ski. We considered buying a place and I am glad we did not. We would rather rent and do what we want even if it is renting the same place year after year.

As far as youth sports, IMO for the most part it is a sham and a misplaced priority in many school districts. Anything past the youngest level teaches very little to kids other than favoritism and nepotism.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

"We had annually rented on a seasonal basis a home in Manchester VT area for the ski season. That worked until the first kid and then the hassle wasn't worth it anymore. In all honesty, the whole thing just felt like a grind after season after season - and we both like to ski."

This. Maintaining one house is more than enough. When a vacation place feels like a second full time job, that's no vacation.

[Birddog]

I have a place in Northern NM near 87710's place, and a friend has a high $$ place in Summit Co, CO. Whenever another person brings up the prospect of buying a vacation home, we always go into our sarcastic mode talking about the joys of 2nd home ownership and how trouble free it is, NOT.

My adult daughter now loves to come to the mtns and my son lives nearby, but during her teenage years she hated going to the mtns and made life somewhat miserable for the rest of us during the duration of our stays. It was the mall phase of her life. She's over it now.

The biggest burden is keeping up with the maintenance, you either do it yourself or hire it out. Your mountain home is constantly trying to return to the earth while you are away. Renting out has it woes too, local prop mgmt co's usually extract 50% or more from the rental.

Our place used to be our primary residence some 30+ years ago and we moved away but kept it as a 2nd place. It has been a burden at times but has been worth it in the long run IMO. It won't be a painless experience, i can assure you, but it might work out. You will only be a few hours away, I'm an 8 hr drive. Proximity is probably worth a little more hassle.

[rounder]

I enjoyed it until I was 14 or so. Most of that time, it was they only thing I cared about. I was obsessed with hockey and did nothing else. But none of that has stuck with me, other the arthritis and the knee surgeries. While I was focused on practice and games, traveling all over New England and Canada, my peers were focused on school. They were much better off. I'm not bitter I gave up so much to play hockey, I just think it wasn't a wise use of my time.

Luckily one of the teams I played for when I was 14 drew from both the North Shore and South shore of Boston and I realized that while I may have been the best player in my town, and one of the best in my part of Massachusetts, I wasn't good enough to go pro (those kids were so much better than I was, and only a couple of them made the NHL). I'm lucky it happened then and I was able to pivot my focus to school, which happened about as late as it could have and still turn out well. I was way behind and busted my hump to get into a good school. Had I not played on that team, it would have been too late to turn my attention to more productive pursuits.

Most of the kids I grew up playing hockey with, especially the good skaters, ended up at average schools and graduated into average careers. (One won a sliver medal in Olympic speed skating, but I can't think of another that was really successful). The dorks I grew up with who were focused on school during those years weren't cool or popular outside of the other dorks, but mostly ended up with good jobs and good lives. We as a society put a lot emphasis on team sports for kids, and I did when I was a kid, but I just don't value that time in my life now and I don't think it was good for me.

What was good for me was time with my family and turning my focus to school. Once I was on my own, learning to backpack, fish, re-learing to ride a bike, and learning to ski had lasting positive impacts on my life. The only think hockey left me with is an old man's body at too young of an age.

I live in a place as densely populated with kids as any town in America. I see plenty of parents obsessed with their kids soccer, baseball, and even competitive cheer. They devote much of their time, and too much of their money, traveling around watching their kids play sports that they will likely stop playing during, or at the end of, high school.

I wish for a better life for my kids. I want them to learn things as kids that they can do for their whole lives, and eventually with their kids. I don't want them obsessed with kids games that put too much stress on young bodies. I want them to learn to love and respect nature. And I want them to learn things that last a lifetime.

I think a lot about my childhood. The things I remember the most fondly are the times I spent with my family. I played more hockey between the ages of 4 and 18 than most people do of any one thing in their life, and I think about it very little. Mostly I think of it when I can't walk in the morning or can't get down a set of stairs without pain. I loved it most the time, liked it the rest, but took almost none of it past my last high school game.

None of my opinions are either generalizations or broad, they are all concrete and specific to my life. They may not apply to yours, they may not apply to anyone's, but they absolutely apply to mine. My job as a parent is to give my kids the best childhood I can based on what I have learned in my life. I played one sport exclusively as until I was in high school and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

So I value a place in the mountains much more than having my kid play basketball in the winter or soccer in the summer. My son likes soccer and baseball and he plays both. I even spend a lot of time working with him on baseball so he can keep getting better. (I don't understand soccer or I'd help him there too). But we don't let him play organized winter sports and we skip about a third of his baseball games in the summer for family trips (Mesa Verde/Durango/Ouray/Colorado National Monument last year, Yellowstone this year).

I'll probably buy a place in the mountains in the next few years, and when we do, my son will probably play fewer organized sports and do more things in the mountains. Most importantly, he will spend time with his parents and his sister. We have close friends who have made the opposite decision. They have an undersized five year-old son and they are giving up their ski pass next year so he can play organized basketball. I think that is just nuts, and my friend's wife thinks it is absolutely the best decision they could make. As Mark Knopfler once said, "two of them think they're Jesus, one of them must be wrong." I guess time will tell which one.

Good story Bradford. Well told.

[93legendti]

Frugal people don't buy vacation homes.

Frugal people get rich and often have more than one vacation home. True story.

[Mr. Pink]

Frugal people get rich and often have more than one vacation home. True story.

The two wealthiest people I know do not own second homes. As a matter of fact, both made their money in real estate, but use that asset class as a way to produce income, not as a personal luxury item. Both live well below their means, too.

[jlwdm]

I know a lot of wealthy people, and they pretty much all have multiple homes. Usually a lot more than two homes.

Jeff

[Louis]

That ain't nothing - I even know some people who are so rich they have multiple bicycles!

[majorpat]

To answer your question about kids and weekends. I can confirm that the chances to get to a vacation home will disappear. This from a gymnastics, soccer, lacrosse dad.

[buddybikes]

We have friends that are a teacher and a nurse. They own three houses, one in down east Maine with 225ft of ocean frontage other in VT right on the CT and Williams river. THey don't rent, just let friends like us to go when we want and we pay them a few good meals. However they looked at it this way:
1. Live now, you will be in the ground soon enough
2. Don't hire out perhaps except lawn mowing for the 300 mile drive to ME.
3. Design, fix, even cut/dry, find stuff in "Restore" and other such places. They built a whole kitchen with cabinets and stainless appliances for 2,000 at a Restore from some "upper score" people that wanted a change
4. 2 of the houses are paid off, other is almost just because of the sweat labor.

Can you estimate that this place would increase in value if you need to sell during retirement? Are you type of people that like to hang out in same place or tour country in an RV or plane? Can you move here, or want to when you retire? How much of your finances will it eat up taking all expenses into account (like insurance, plowing, etc)

[1happygirl]

The PBT speaks. All great considerations that I hadn't thought about if I were considering this.

People that brought up maintenance, taxes , etc are spot on. Not being close to a home is a problem. I'm a worrier and want to spend my time enjoying , not fixing. The poster who said they will turn in the key and go home, is spot one. As far as leaving houses, etc to kids I can tell you that as much as most of my friends memories and emotional pull to a place have , they would rather be left money and remember the memories only. They have homes of their own that they are getting started and trying to keep up. Resources in the form of money according to my friends would be more appreciated.

I am not a financial guru but even if it were a profit, the time spent on it would vs the two-three week use would be a no -go for me.

[nm87710]

Your mountain home is constantly trying to return to the earth while you are away.

:)

[old fat man]

Maybe my experience is relevant?

- My parents bought a ski condo in VT (2.5 hours from our home) when I was 7 and my sister was 11. We spent 40+ days a year on the slopes as a result, but rarely used it in the summer, probably because there is no A/C and we had an outdoor pool at home to enjoy.
- We skipped weekend classes (Sunday school, and then I had half day Saturday class in high school) and didn't do much in the way of organized winter sports (JV basketball) but we skied the hell out of that mountain from 8am to 4pm every weekend and as we both got older and graduated from the race program, we moved on to ski/snowboard instructing as teenagers there
- Into college, I still made it to the condo for 30+ ski days a year and continued to work during school breaks
- Now I have two young kids as does my sister and we spend almost every weekend in the winter with my parents and her family at that condo

- My father is retired now, but even when he wasn't, he was putting in 60+ ski days a year, now it's up over 70 or 80 as he spends most of the winter there
- We make more summer trips now too, and use the condo as a base camp for riding, hiking, exploring waterfalls, or just relaxing

I would not give up the experience I had for any organized sports, or for a different winter trip each year, and I am so excited to share the same type of experience with my kids as they grow up. We throw our backpacks and some food in the car and head north for the less than 2 hour drive. We keep all the ski gear there as well as toys, non-ski clothes, etc so it's super easy to get out the door on Thursday or Friday and walk back in the door on Sunday night. There is a lot to be said for the convenience of not schlepping so much stuff each time you go away, especially if you are packing for 4.

I can't really speak to the financial reward/penalty of the condo, but I can tell you that my sister and I have every intention of making it work if it is passed down to us, whereas we have no strong interest in holding on to the house that we both grew up in and my parents still live in.

[Birddog]

Mine isn't so sneaky. It tries to do that when I'm there too!

You doing Michael 'n Miller's rides in June? Humid and 87 here yesterday so I'm ready to head up now!

Yep, the "Rough Rider" is on the calendar. 5 or 6 friends have committed as well. I'm planning on at least 50 on Sunday, maybe 100. I'm almost always ready to be in high country.

[moose8]

We had a condo at a ski place called Sunday River growing up which my parents sold when I graduated college. They made absolutely no money from owning it for 15 years or so, and probably lost quite a bit after all was said and done, but we spent a lot of good time together and have lots of good memories from just consistently spending weekends together. So from a financial standpoint it made no sense, but from a family standpoint it was a great investment.

I also have friends who through dumb luck as much as anything (getting reassigned for work to colorado and riding the summit county boom) have made a ton financially from second homes, and others who have just been left a little frustrated with all the work it entails when prices stay flat or go down.

[pdmtong]

Just a few thoughts...assuming finite resources

If you have some extra cash, and can fit tit into your budget, buy it. Dont over spreadsheet regarding appreciation. Do the calcs based on current expenses and costs

Dont buy it if you can't get to it easily leaving on a late mid-week afternoon.
For me, it has to be close enough to be used without much planning.

Buy it now not later. Put time on your side. Later you are old, or worse dead. Enjoyment and memories are not measured in dollars.

[2wheelwill]

Thanks again for all the thoughts on this topic. Next weekend is the end of our ski lease and I'm still not sure what to do. Seems like the bottom line is that there are lots of unknowns in terms of how much use and enjoyment you'll get out of a vacation home. But there are lots of knowns in terms of costs, maintenance and hassle. So my "pro" column is full of maybe's and my "con" column is full of facts. So safe bet is clearly not to buy, but the safe bet might not be the right bet. Ugh...

Btw, the place we're looking at is Serene Lakes up on Donner Summit. It's surrounded by the Royal Gorge XC ski resort and has Donner Ranch, Soda Springs, Sugar Bowl and Boreal ski resorts all with in a few minutes drive. Since we got so little snow this winter I did a lot of road riding which was awesome. The only downside of Serene Lakes is that normal winters there are very rough on homes so maintenance will always be a big issue.

Anyone own or vacation at Serene Lakes? Would love to know your experience...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[2wheelwill]

Here's a view from our deck over Xmas break

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/04/05/77ef62b664252ccf6f9f43e802cf85be.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[velotrack]

Lots of good insight, lots of fun stories... but just proves that there is no yes/no answer, but rather each person's own case-by-case cost/benefit analysis for the value to them. Looking at a value that is not necessarily just measured in numbers and decimals, that is.

Good luck.

[sitzmark]

You now have some idea of the area and if traveling to the same location each weekend works for your family. If it "fits" and you intend to continue visiting the same area on a regular basis, then it makes (financial) sense to seek seasonal leases or purchase a property. Doesn't take many discrete weekend stays to add up to a monthly mortgage payment ... many times only one weekend.

Unless you find someone who is desperate or just generous, you're paying more for a seasonal lease than the actual carrying costs (mortgage, taxes, insurance, maintenance, etc.). A smart owner has all of that calculated and included in their lease rate. Private homeowners often don't fully assess the actual costs of ownership. A good condo association does by way of a comprehensive reserve analysis. Some states require condo boards to conduct a reserve analysis every 5-7 years. A reserve analysis requires evaluating all maintenance and replacements needs for structures, equipment, land, etc. Properly done, a reserve analysis will roll costs out 20+ years and set a collection rate equal to 1/20th(+) of the expense every year. As an example, if a fire panel is expected to be functional for 20 years and costs $2,000 to replace, then $100 needs to be collected from the owners every year. Some factor for inflation needs to be considered as well. If the association is run well, when you get to 20 years the money for the replacement fire panel will be in the bank. If you're a "detail person" you should do the same for owning a single family residence. If you're planning to buy a single-family resale, look very carefully to see what has been maintained and what hasn't ... "negotiate" appropriately, as you will be on the hook for the previous owner's laziness.

Always a good idea to do some historical benchmarking. What are resale values of comparable properties in good (economic) times and in bad times? How far do prices slide in bad times? Where are prices in relation to that today? Never good to buy at peak valuation if you aren't prepared to lose some of your principal. Also depends on location. There are some locations (Summit Co, CO, Aspen, J-Hole, etc) where property dips in price, but demand and location traditionally restores valuation and often raises it higher. Try to assess the potential for the area ... what is the area's long range visioning plan? Getting in on the ground floor of another Vail is a long-shot, but depending on demographics you could see strong appreciation for your property .. or not. If you're seeking to be remote and get away from it all, you may be happier, but that can also limit resale opportunity.

Once you're linked into the community you and your family will most likely "be at home". My wife and I interact with about 50-80 families at our ski property. 20-30 families on a regular basis (every weekend). Most have children who have grown up at the resort. Kids start in skewee and move on to minis, then competition programs (alpine, freestyle, moguls) or junior professional. Most kids have outside interests - all love to ski, but football, baseball, and soccer tend to be the non-ski season activities. They seem to make it work. One family's son is now on the World Cup mogul tour. Another's son is on a full football scholarship to a division II school. One will enter med school in the fall. One's an environmental engineer running dredging rigs for one of the largest waterways companies in the country. All come back periodically to ski and socialize. It's a big extended family. That's what you get with picking a location and settling down. Can be boring/repetitive ... just depends on what you're family's interests are.

If this year (a bad snow year) didn't convince you one way or the other, maybe you need a couple of more seasonal rentals before deciding. Good luck!!

[Ken Robb]

My sister's place is in Donner Summit just s bit east of the area you mention. It seems to be a well-managed/maintained community. There is a golf course in the middle of the area with optional membership for property owners. My brother-in-law is a keen golfer so they pay the extra fee for a golf membership and use it a lot. There is also a private beach club at the west end of Donner Lake for the use of owners. I think there are other recreational amenities too including a small ski area. I don't know what HOA fees are for this development. The area is heavily wooded and there are some nice hiking/ mountain biking trails throughout.
Over the years and through multiple real estate transactions Sis and husband have become good friends with a local Realtor who is very good and knows the North Shore/Truckee area very well. I can give you his name/number if that would help you decide which way to go.

[Birddog]

Your photo reminded me of something else to consider. Large wooden decks are at the same time one of the big attractions and one of the biggest maintenance issues. Buy a place with a reasonable sized deck, preferably covered. Picture yourself shoveling that mother off or hiring it done in average snow years. On a big snow year picture your deck as a pile of scrap wood on the ground if you don't take the precautions and shovel it off. A 1000 sq ft pile of scrap is not a pretty sight.

If the deck seems undersized, it is in fact probably just about right for 80% of the time you are there. When it comes to decks, the average person's "eyes are bigger than their stomach". My viewpoint comes from 40 years in the mountains much of that building in same. BTW, they are expensive to maintain and replace. JMO, but decks just might be the single biggest PIA of vacation home ownership. They are way cool though when you are sipping a steaming hot cup of joe on a sunny, crisp morning in the mountain air. Just size it appropriately.

[54ny77]

I have friends with cabins in ski country and it's a PITA to maintain them. Snow shoveling, deck refinishing, shutting down for the season, etc. etc. etc.

The whopper of snow last year crushed part of the roof. There went tens of thousands.

Kinda tough to manage all that from far far away, and if you have a renter coming when the roof's falling in and a construction crew on site, well, you won't have happy renters.

[adampaiva]

I was hoping this thread would just be pictures of everyone's vacation homes / cabins. Maybe it should head that direction ?

I'm probably not much older than some of your kids based on some of the anecdotes but I'm in the process of buying a cabin about two hours upstate of me. I don't think I'll regret it and in a few weeks this will be mine. I can't wait.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7579/16312572485_b8d7ae5a8c_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qRuctK)20150117-DSC00017.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qRuctK) by adam.paiva (https://www.flickr.com/people/29381313@N00/), on Flickr

[nm87710]

Your photo reminded me of something else to consider. Large wooden decks...

:)

[Ralph]

I've never been able to convice the wife of this......but with kids gone and all.....and if you're still working, I would rather just own a small condo or rent a place very near (like walkable) where I work, and then own my nearby vacation place. Then after I stop working, move there permanently.

But I didn't do that. Still live same place I did when I worked. And had it paid off long time before I retired, so reason for staying here is not to work off a mortgage, guess we just like it. Still take plenty of away trips.

[malcolm]

Wife and I have been kicking the idea of a beach place around for years but thus far we still rent. Just spent a nice spring break there. Property values have remained stable during bad economic times and have appreciated significantly over the twenty years we've been going, but still haven't pulled the trigger.

[gomango]

I was hoping this thread would just be pictures of everyone's vacation homes / cabins. Maybe it should head that direction ?

I'm probably not much older than some of your kids based on some of the anecdotes but I'm in the process of buying a cabin about two hours upstate of me. I don't think I'll regret it and in a few weeks this will be mine. I can't wait.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7579/16312572485_b8d7ae5a8c_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qRuctK)20150117-DSC00017.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qRuctK) by adam.paiva (https://www.flickr.com/people/29381313@N00/), on Flickr

That's likely a very good move. imho


Looks like fun. :)

FWIW I have owned land on the edge of the BWCA since I was 24 and have never regretted the purchase.

We planted hundreds of white pines on those acres that are maturing nicely and our kids did the same thing last summer on another parcel that we recently acquired.

We are taking some steps this summer to keep the land in the family for a very long time.

I hope you enjoy your cabin and all of the incredible memories as the years go by.

[buddybikes]

PS, vacation homes/cottages great place for the kids to become "adults" with their special friend if you know what I mean. My wife and I married now for 30 years...

[93legendti]

PS, vacation homes/cottages great place for the kids to become "adults" with their special friend if you know what I mean. My wife and I married now for 30 years...

Ah, memories...summer weekends up north...:)

[Mr. Pink]

You're a wise old Birddog. I was thinking the same thing having replaced the original 35 year old redwood deck with a log one a few years ago. It wraps the house...:crap: and was a six week project.

The deck requires less maintenance than my asphalt driveway though. Snow, ice, rain, intense sun, snowplows and car traffic don't play well with asphalt at 9K feet. It's a never ending job - like painting the Golden Gate Bridge.

Yea there are always projects but I'm up there for months on end and enjoy getting my hands dirty with the net result well worth it. I'd rather be up working on the house and property in the great outdoors than doing just about anything else - except riding. It's not work if you enjoy it!!


That house will be gone in five minutes when the next fire cruises through the area.

[Ken Robb]

Leslie and I just returned from 4 days at our friends' second home in the mountains near Julian,CA. It is a real newer 3br/2ba house of modular construction that would be a fine home for a couple or small family. There are lovely views of hill and valleys from the deck and deer, turkeys, etc. visit the yard.

Since it's only 1 1/4 hours from town they can get there easily for quick get-aways. They have two daughters with families and they all use and enjoy the family "resort".

The owner is a CPA who just retired as V.P. of Finance of one of our biggest local companies. I KNOW he crunched the numbers and decided buying this place made sense for his family. It would not make financial sense for Les and me because we wouldn't get to use it enough due to her busy schedule and lack of grandkids.

[nm87710]

That house will be gone in five minutes when the next fire cruises through the area.

You might be right

[Mr. Pink]

And, pray tell, how much is that insurance? I suspect that it doesn't reflect the risk and danger of building a home in such a dangerous place. Just like the cheap insurance that shelters the Oceanside vacation home market that has grown into the trillions in value. Something tells me that the less fortunate, or, the more reasonable and frugal are subsidizing those dumb decisions by helping to pay for them, either as part of a pool, or, even worse, by federal garauntees backed by tax dollars.


http://wildfiretoday.com/2008/12/31/the-stupid-zone/

[93legendti]

Apparently vacation homes strike a nerve with you....that's too bad. They can be very relaxing. :)

And, pray tell, how much is that insurance? I suspect that it doesn't reflect the risk and danger of building a home in such a dangerous place. Just like the cheap insurance that shelters the Oceanside vacation home market that has grown into the trillions in value. Something tells me that the less fortunate, or, the more reasonable and frugal are subsidizing those dumb decisions by helping to pay for them, either as part of a pool, or, even worse, by federal garauntees backed by tax dollars.

http://wildfiretoday.com/2008/12/31/the-stupid-zone/

That house will be gone in five minutes when the next fire cruises through the area.

Frugal people don't buy vacation homes.

[Mr. Pink]

Apparently vacation homes strike a nerve with you....that's too bad. They can be very relaxing. :)

Oh, I've rented in a lot of places. Four summers right on the edge of the Atlantic Ocean on the Jersey Shaw. Deep in the woods of Vermont in the winter. Always walked away knowing I got the better end of the deal. I don't need the hassle. You know, Sandy, nor easters, or, ice dams, ice dams, plowing, shoveling, whatever.

I am bothered about the way the most of us subsidize it's existence, though. But, ya know, the rich win again. Duh.

[Ken Robb]

Oh, I've rented in a lot of places. Four summers right on the edge of the Atlantic Ocean on the Jersey Shaw. Deep in the woods of Vermont in the winter. Always walked away knowing I got the better end of the deal. I don't need the hassle. You know, Sandy, nor easters, or, ice dams, ice dams, plowing, shoveling, whatever.

I am bothered about the way the most of us subsidize it's existence, though. But, ya know, the rich win again. Duh.
Judging by the places you have rented you must be pretty rich yourself. :)

[93legendti]

Oh, I've rented in a lot of places. Four summers right on the edge of the Atlantic Ocean on the Jersey Shaw. Deep in the woods of Vermont in the winter. Always walked away knowing I got the better end of the deal. I don't need the hassle. You know, Sandy, nor easters, or, ice dams, ice dams, plowing, shoveling, whatever.

I am bothered about the way the most of us subsidize it's existence, though. But, ya know, the rich win again. Duh.

Well, sounds like the rich didn't win with you if know you got the better end of the deal. Or did you rent from poor people who weren't subsidized?

Love rich people. They are the hardest working, warmest and most philanthropic people I know.

[Mr. Pink]

Judging by the places you have rented you must be pretty rich yourself. :)

No, Socialist. Both group houses.

[Louis]

Love rich people. They are the hardest working, warmest and most philanthropic people I know.

Adam, you love "rich" people? That's amusing. Personally I'd think you'd be better off loving people on a case-by-case basis, not based on their personal wealth. Believe it or not, some of the not-so-rich people I know are also hard working and quite friendly.

[2wheelwill]

So this has been an interesting thread....thanks again for all the input!

I did a nice rider over Donner Summit today, around Donner Lake and back over the pass to our place...thinking along the way about whether we should buy a cabin up here or not.

I think in the end we've decided not to buy a vacation home. While not as convenient as owning your own place we will likely remain renters and enjoy the flexibility of not being pinned down to one place. More importantly though was the fact that I have early retirement in sight and I've worked too hard to be mortgage free by retirement to screw it up now. So for the time being I'll keep the nest egg intact and perhaps be a regular renter up in the Sierras.

Thanks again!

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/11/f05921739c302f6568b1a453a148c74e.jpg


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[Louis]

I think you and your wife made the correct decision.

I did a nice rider over Donner Summit today, around Donner Lake and back over the pass to our place

On a lighter note, whenever I hear of this area I can't help but think of this song. Different incident, but you'll see the connection...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKYuJneq_sE

[Ken Robb]

So this has been an interesting thread....thanks again for all the input!

I did a nice rider over Donner Summit today, around Donner Lake and back over the pass to our place...thinking along the way about whether we should buy a cabin up here or not.

I think in the end we've decided not to buy a vacation home. While not as convenient as owning your own place we will likely remain renters and enjoy the flexibility of not being pinned down to one place. More importantly though was the fact that I have early retirement in sight and I've worked too hard to be mortgage free by retirement to screw it up now. So for the time being I'll keep the nest egg intact and perhaps be a regular renter up in the Sierras.

Thanks again!

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/11/f05921739c302f6568b1a453a148c74e.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have done this ride and sneaked through the park at the east end of the lake to finish the circle. Sis and family used to rent a house at the west end of Donner Lake every August and loved the private beach avilable there to residents. They bought a lot planning to build their own place but then realized that the west end is not a good place to be in Winter hence their buying in Donner Summit. They did keep the lot at the west end though because they like the private beach better than the one at the East end that comes with their new home. I think they are both nice and the water in Donner lake is much warmer than Lake Tahoe.

[SamIAm]

I bought a vacation home about 5 years ago and it has been a great experience. I am there now actually. It is in the North Georgia mountains and is an hour's drive from my main residence in Atlanta.

We considered places that were 2-2.5 hours away, but that would have been too far in my opinion. We have furnished/stocked the place so that we can just drive up on the spur of the moment. No planning required.

At first we were hesitant to rent the place when we weren't using it, but changed our minds rather quickly. First the money has been great, it rents enough to cover 90+ percent of the carrying cost. But by using a rental management company, we have local resources to do the required maintenance. No emergency trips required. We come up to a spotless home in tip top condition every time. So its just about riding, hiking, relaxing, building bonfires, whatever, a true getaway.

Before we put it on the rental market, we would burn our time up here taking care of the house.

One additional benefit has been offering it free of charge to our friends, family, neighbors etc. It is fun to give it away.

And, i know this isn't always the case, it has been a fantastic investment, almost doubling in value since the purchase, which of course was made during the real estate downturn.

Sure its a luxury, but so what.

[93legendti]

I bought a vacation home about 5 years ago and it has been a great experience. I am there now actually. It is in the North Georgia mountains and is an hour's drive from my main residence in Atlanta.

We considered places that were 2-2.5 hours away, but that would have been too far in my opinion. We have furnished/stocked the place so that we can just drive up on the spur of the moment. No planning required.

At first we were hesitant to rent the place when we weren't using it, but changed our minds rather quickly. First the money has been great, it rents enough to cover 90+ percent of the carrying cost. But by using a rental management company, we have local resources to do the required maintenance. No emergency trips required. We come up to a spotless home in tip top condition every time. So its just about riding, hiking, relaxing, building bonfires, whatever, a true getaway.

Before we put it on the rental market, we would burn our time up here taking care of the house.

One additional benefit has been offering it free of charge to our friends, family, neighbors etc. It is fun to give it away.

And, i know this isn't always the case, it has been a fantastic investment, almost doubling in value since the purchase, which of course was made during the real estate downturn.

Sure its a luxury, but so what.
My brother has had a similar experience to yours. At my suggestion, he sold his San Fran home at the top of the market. He waited awhile and then in 2010 he bought a home here and another in New Orleans-the combined cost was lower than either one would have cost in 2007 or present day. He keeps them both stocked as homes and comes and goes as he pleases depending upon the weather.

[fuzzalow]

At my suggestion, he sold his San Fran home at the top of the market. He waited awhile and then in 2010 he bought a home here and another in New Orleans-the combined cost was lower than either one would have cost in 2007 or present day.

HaHa! "San Fran at the top of the market". San Fran is always at its own top of the market! Swap locales like that and the least of the rationale to do it is carrying cost but I'm sure your brother had his reasons. Great that it worked out but capital also flows for a reason.