Campy triple question?!?

[VTCaraco]

Picked up a Campy Comp Triple mini-groupo (https://www.icloud.com/photostream/#A153qWtHMlGJi) from Dan/Guy for my wife's travel bike. I did the rough build and brought it to my local shop to do the finishing touches.
Before going any further, I'll say that my mechanic is superb...knowledgeable and VERY pragmatic.
Just got off the phone with him to see if the bike was ready and he says that the FD is rubbing when trying to go to the smallest chainring. He's looked at a variety of things including changing the BB from 111 to 115 and his thought is to swap the big chainring to a 50t (30-42-52). He checked his suppliers and says they're pretty pricey ($100+) so suggested I check around a little first.
He also mentioned that if it was a clamp rather than braze-on mount that he might be able to get a little more space by dropping it down a little more, but that's not an option as-is.

To the Campy-experts, any thoughts on the whole?

If a 50t is the way to go, any recommended source?
I see Stronglight Dural (http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/chainrings-chainrings-road-stronglight-dural-135mm-campagnolo-8-9-10-chainring/strochri350) for less than $20 or Stronglight Zircal (http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/chainrings-chainrings-road-stronglight-zicral-135mm-camp-9-10-chainring/strochri500) for less than $40 or TA (http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/chainrings-chainrings-road-ta-chainring-campagnolo-135mm-8-9-10-spd/taaachri350) for right around $50 from Ribble. I also see VeloMine has a black (not my preference, but...) Racing Triple (http://www.velomine.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=86_294_383_384&products_id=2014) for $70, but I'd guess that that would present the same problem.

Any other suggested solutions or recommendations would be much appreciated.

[oldpotatoe]

Picked up a Campy Comp Triple mini-groupo (https://www.icloud.com/photostream/#A153qWtHMlGJi) from Dan/Guy for my wife's travel bike. I did the rough build and brought it to my local shop to do the finishing touches.
Before going any further, I'll say that my mechanic is superb...knowledgeable and VERY pragmatic.
Just got off the phone with him to see if the bike was ready and he says that the FD is rubbing when trying to go to the smallest chainring. He's looked at a variety of things including changing the BB from 111 to 115 and his thought is to swap the big chainring to a 50t (30-42-52). He checked his suppliers and says they're pretty pricey ($100+) so suggested I check around a little first.
He also mentioned that if it was a clamp rather than braze-on mount that he might be able to get a little more space by dropping it down a little more, but that's not an option as-is.

To the Campy-experts, any thoughts on the whole?

If a 50t is the way to go, any recommended source?
I see Stronglight Dural (http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/chainrings-chainrings-road-stronglight-dural-135mm-campagnolo-8-9-10-chainring/strochri350) for less than $20 or Stronglight Zircal (http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/chainrings-chainrings-road-stronglight-zicral-135mm-camp-9-10-chainring/strochri500) for less than $40 or TA (http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/chainrings-chainrings-road-ta-chainring-campagnolo-135mm-8-9-10-spd/taaachri350) for right around $50 from Ribble. I also see VeloMine has a black (not my preference, but...) Racing Triple (http://www.velomine.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=86_294_383_384&products_id=2014) for $70, but I'd guess that that would present the same problem.

Any other suggested solutions or recommendations would be much appreciated.

If the chain is reluctant to go to small ring, the BB length is the culprit. What seat tube diameter? Even with some 31.8, a 115 is called for. This will fix the fder issue. The only other 'solution' is to dent the seat tube to allow for more fder travel, if ya gotta keep the 111mm BB, but 115 is the solution...about $80, Centaur.

[nighthawk]

Picked up a Campy Comp Triple mini-groupo (https://www.icloud.com/photostream/#A153qWtHMlGJi) from Dan/Guy for my wife's travel bike. I did the rough build and brought it to my local shop to do the finishing touches.
Before going any further, I'll say that my mechanic is superb...knowledgeable and VERY pragmatic.
Just got off the phone with him to see if the bike was ready and he says that the FD is rubbing when trying to go to the smallest chainring. He's looked at a variety of things including changing the BB from 111 to 115 and his thought is to swap the big chainring to a 50t (30-42-52). He checked his suppliers and says they're pretty pricey ($100+) so suggested I check around a little first.
He also mentioned that if it was a clamp rather than braze-on mount that he might be able to get a little more space by dropping it down a little more, but that's not an option as-is.

To the Campy-experts, any thoughts on the whole?

If a 50t is the way to go, any recommended source?
I see Stronglight Dural (http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/chainrings-chainrings-road-stronglight-dural-135mm-campagnolo-8-9-10-chainring/strochri350) for less than $20 or Stronglight Zircal (http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/chainrings-chainrings-road-stronglight-zicral-135mm-camp-9-10-chainring/strochri500) for less than $40 or TA (http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/chainrings-chainrings-road-ta-chainring-campagnolo-135mm-8-9-10-spd/taaachri350) for right around $50 from Ribble. I also see VeloMine has a black (not my preference, but...) Racing Triple (http://www.velomine.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=86_294_383_384&products_id=2014) for $70, but I'd guess that that would present the same problem.

Any other suggested solutions or recommendations would be much appreciated.

What size crank arms you need? I have a 170mm Racing triple crank that I believe is 30-40-50. Was NOS till I put a couple hundred miles on it over a few rides last year. I'm about to retire the frame that is on, and was going to sell the components. Let me know if you are interested.

[gdw]

Is the spring on the back of the derailleur making contact with the seat tube and preventing the cage from moving far enough to the left to align cleanly with the small chainring?

[gdw]

A $36.50 solution:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Origin8-Torqlite-BB-Campagnolo-ISO-Taper-Bottom-Bracket-68mm-x-115mm-English-/271773602579?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f46f81313

[VTCaraco]

If the chain is reluctant to go to small ring, the BB length is the culprit. What seat tube diameter? Even with some 31.8, a 115 is called for. This will fix the fder issue. The only other 'solution' is to dent the seat tube to allow for more fder travel, if ya gotta keep the 111mm BB, but 115 is the solution...about $80, Centaur.

I think it's more of an up/down thing, but I'll certainly pass this on....

[Ralph]

If the chain is reluctant to go to small ring, the BB length is the culprit. What seat tube diameter? Even with some 31.8, a 115 is called for. This will fix the fder issue. The only other 'solution' is to dent the seat tube to allow for more fder travel, if ya gotta keep the 111mm BB, but 115 is the solution...about $80, Centaur.

The above is answer. That crankset uses a 111 Centaur (or older 111 Campy symetrical BB) for 28.6 seat tubes. Sometimes the 111 will work with 31.8, but many times the 31.8 needs the 115.5 Centaur advertised for triples. And for sure, a larger diameter seat tube needs the 115.5. They sell pretty inexpensively on E Bay and places like Ribble. Do not use the 111 asymetrical for Chorus and Record. The above Origin 8 will work fine also. But maybe BB has 2 sets of bearings instead of the Centaur's 3 sets of bearings.

[VTCaraco]

Bought and had my wrench install the 115 bb and no measurable improvement.
I'm in a little bit of a tough spot in so much as I have the bike in the hands of a wrench that has always been outstanding about getting things to work perfectly. His "answer" is that I need to get the 48 tooth big ring...that it really does seem to be an odd set up.
Any thoughts?

My other option, of course, is to abandon the triple and go with a compact instead. I'd love to hear ideas from the Campy pros.

[Mark McM]

When you say that the "FD is rubbing when trying to go to the smallest chainring", and that "it's more of an up/down thing", what exactly is rubbing? Is the chain rubbing on the against the side of the derailleur cage? Is the chain falling onto the back end of the cage? Is the chain rubbing against the inner face of the small ring? Or is the derailleur cage itself rubbing on the large chainring? Each different condition will have its own solutions.

[Ralph]

Well....setting up a Campy triple is a pretty straight forward thing. And it's not complicated.

Are you trying to say this bike has a braze on Front derailleur tab, and the FD can't go high enough to clear the big ring? What your mechanic is suggesting sounds like a solution to this problem.

If so....get out a file, or buy a smaller big chainring.

If the above is so, the issue is your frame. The front derailleur tab height was designed for a compact crank. 50 tooth usually.

[VTCaraco]

... what exactly is rubbing?

Just called the shop and talked with the guys again.
The issue is the chain is rubbing the horizontal bracket at the back of the derailleur. As they described it, they can't get the VERTICAL range needed to span the big (which is a 53, not the 52 that I thought it had) to the 30. Further, when they adjust it up so that it can access the big chainring, the gears in the rear aren't fully accessible. And the same happens when you shift down.
Their conclusion remains that the only way to make this work is with a 50t or even more ideally, a 48t big ring. Where it seems odd to me and to them is that all of the parts are matching ~ Campagnolo Comp Triple.

Seems like I have a few different options...

Different front derailleur that spans a taller range (longer, more arched cage)
Find either a smaller big ring or a bigger small ring or both
Abandon the triple and look, instead, for a compact

[VTCaraco]

Are you trying to say this bike has a braze on Front derailleur tab, and the FD can't go high enough to clear the big ring? What your mechanic is suggesting sounds like a solution to this problem.

If so....get out a file, or buy a smaller big chainring.

If the above is so, the issue is your frame. The front derailleur tab height was designed for a compact crank. 50 tooth usually.

Yes to the braze-on front tab, but the old double that was on there was bigger than a 50, so that's not the whole story.

[Mark McM]

I just checked the Campagnolo Triple Catalog (2008) on the Campagnolo web site. According to the specs:

The standard chainrings are 53-42-30

The front derailleur has a capacity of 22 teeth

This is a slight descrepency, since there is a 23 teeth difference in chainrings, so it is stretching the capacity of the derailleur.

The function (and capacity) of a front derailleur can be affected by the seat tube angle. Steepening the seat tube can reduce the capacity of a front derailleur.

You mention that this is for your wife's bike - is your wife of shorter stature? Bikes for shorter riders tend to have steeper seat tubes - sometimes up to 76 degrees of more. My guess would be that you have a combination of factors causing your problem - the chainring sizes already stretch the capacity of the derailleur, and the a steep seat tube reduces the derailleur capacity even further.

If this is the case, your only options are to change the chainring sizes (reduce the large chainring or increase the small chainring), or find another derailleur with larger capacity. If the front shifter is non-indexed (doesn't use the Escape mechanism), then you could be replace the derailleur with a non-campagnolo derailleur with a larger capacity (if you can find one).

[Ken Robb]

I ran a Campy "Racing Triple" but with a TA Zephyr 48-38-28 and it worked great. One of the very nice Sugino triple cranks with 46 or 48 big ring would probably work too and they are a lot less $$$ than a TA. It combined with 10 spd. Chorus 13-29.

[VTCaraco]

Wife is fairly short with longer legs and a short torso.
Frame is a coupled travel bike and seat tube IS steep.

So we (and by mean, I mean YOU) figured out the cause.
So what's the best solution? And by best, I mean most cost effective and best function?

Triple is nice, but she seldom uses the full spectrum. Mostly, the bailout option of the small chainring is simply reassuring. She's never loved climbing and with age and knee problems, she loves them less now then she did 20 years ago.
Do we just go with a compact?
Any suggestions for a 50 or 48t big ring? Do I simply go with Campy and spend the $100 or so to do so?
Mechanic mocked up a Shimano front derailleur and figured that that wouldn't fix the problem, either.
I'm not opposed to buying more parts, but I'd rather not buy something that is fairly special that might turn out to be of no benefit. No real regret in getting the "right" bottom bracket, but I'd like to have confidence that the next purchase will solve the problem.

[Mark McM]

If your wife wants to keep the low climbing gears, then you probably want to stay with the triple - the smallest chainring that will fit on a compact is 34 teeth.

I don't think Campagnolo makes 135mm BCD chainrings (as on their triples) smaller than 52 teeth, so I think you'll need an aftermarket chainring. I've had good luck with Stronglight Zircal chainrings on a Campagnolo double, and I've heard good things about T.A. chainrings as well. I used the Stronglight Zircal with a 36-52 compact (16 tooth jump), so I don't think you'll have any problem with an 8 tooth jump between the 42 and a 50.

Optionally, you could also change the middle chainring to a 40, so that you have a uniform 10 tooth jump between chainrings, and also making the shift between the inner and middle easier with the smaller jump.

[VTCaraco]

Recommended source for the recommended rings?
Is Ribble the way to go?

[sg8357]

Recommended source for the recommended rings?
Is Ribble the way to go?

I used TA Vento rings, 49/39/27, this was the old style micro ratchet Campy.
Worked nicely.

[Ralph]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Campagnolo-10-Speed-50t-Chainring-for-Comp-Triple-/351372587789?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51cf70330d

50 tooth BCD 135 in 5 arm.

[zmudshark]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Campagnolo-10-Speed-50t-Chainring-for-Comp-Triple-/351372587789?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51cf70330d

50 tooth BCD 135 in 5 arm.Most 50t, including the eBay link, are made to be used with a 40t middle.

[Ralph]

Most 50t, including the eBay link, are made to be used with a 40t middle.

Correct. And there are 40 tooth (40/30) 135 BCD middle rings for that crank on E Bay. Several actually. Some cheap. That crankset came in 30-40-50 as well as 30-42-53.

[VTCaraco]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Campagnolo-10-Speed-50t-Chainring-for-Comp-Triple-/351372587789?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51cf70330d

50 tooth BCD 135 in 5 arm.

Saw that one...
Anything less than $100?

[Ralph]

I used a TA 50 Vento once on a Campy Triple crank with a 42....although Campy Triple FD not designed for 8 tooth difference. It has pins to aid shifting, but no ramps like the Campy ones. But shifting was OK, not as good as real deal though. However....was most beautiful chainring...bike jewelry. Would work OK only if FD cable was very tight. Need adjustable shift cable stops for this.

[Pars]

Might these guys have anything? I've never personally ordered from them, but have heard good things about them from US buyers.

http://www.xxcycle.com/chainring-road,en.php

[zmudshark]

Correct. And there are 40 tooth (40/30) 135 BCD middle rings for that crank on E Bay. Several actually. Some cheap. That crankset came in 30-40-50 as well as 30-42-53.I sold a Centaur triple 30-40-50 in Century finish for about the price of a single chainring.

Do a search for 'compact triple', not that there is one out there now, but they are available from time to time.

Edit:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Campagnolo-Racing-T-triple-crankset-vintage-90s-170mm-50-40-30-/111646685508?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19fea93944

[oldpotatoe]

Just called the shop and talked with the guys again.
The issue is the chain is rubbing the horizontal bracket at the back of the derailleur. As they described it, they can't get the VERTICAL range needed to span the big (which is a 53, not the 52 that I thought it had) to the 30. Further, when they adjust it up so that it can access the big chainring, the gears in the rear aren't fully accessible. And the same happens when you shift down.
Their conclusion remains that the only way to make this work is with a 50t or even more ideally, a 48t big ring. Where it seems odd to me and to them is that all of the parts are matching ~ Campagnolo Comp Triple.

Seems like I have a few different options...

Different front derailleur that spans a taller range (longer, more arched cage)
Find either a smaller big ring or a bigger small ring or both
Abandon the triple and look, instead, for a compact


I suspect the seat tube angle is really steep..meaning the front der is really quite tail up. Which means on small ring and smaller cogs(higher gear), the chain is dragging on the back part of the fder tail. It also means the bumps and such on the front der inside cage aren't hitting the chain where it supposed to. As for accessing all the gears in the back.with a long cage rear der, I wonder if the chain is too long also. I suspect short chainstays, which also hurts triple action.

If braze on, find some sram wedges that rotate the fder cage tail down so it aligns with the chainrings.
These

http://www.artscyclery.com/Sram_Braze-On_Front_Derailleur_Shim/descpage-SRFDSH.html?gclid=CLG87OTd_8QCFZKGaQodWj0A-Q

[oldpotatoe]

If your wife wants to keep the low climbing gears, then you probably want to stay with the triple - the smallest chainring that will fit on a compact is 34 teeth.

I don't think Campagnolo makes 135mm BCD chainrings (as on their triples) smaller than 52 teeth, so I think you'll need an aftermarket chainring. I've had good luck with Stronglight Zircal chainrings on a Campagnolo double, and I've heard good things about T.A. chainrings as well. I used the Stronglight Zircal with a 36-52 compact (16 tooth jump), so I don't think you'll have any problem with an 8 tooth jump between the 42 and a 50.

Optionally, you could also change the middle chainring to a 40, so that you have a uniform 10 tooth jump between chainrings, and also making the shift between the inner and middle easier with the smaller jump.

Campagnolo made a 50/40/30..

[oldpotatoe]

Saw that one...
Anything less than $100?

I have new 50t 135bcd rings for $65 plus shipping. Campagnolo and new but I don't think that's your problem.

[thwart]

Triple is nice, but she seldom uses the full spectrum. Mostly, the bailout option of the small chainring is simply reassuring. She's never loved climbing and with age and knee problems, she loves them less now then she did 20 years ago.
Do we just go with a compact?

We did for my wife. She doesn't like the complexity of shifting much (I joke that she only uses 4 gears, the smallest and largest cog in the cassette with the two compact chainrings), and yet wants to spin an easy gear up hills.

Compact (maybe 48/34) with a wide-range cassette is the simplest (and I'd argue best) solution for this situation.

[Ken Robb]

I suspect short chainstays, which also hurts triple action.





I have always wondered why so many riders complain that triples don't shift nearly as well as doubles. I have both kinds and they all shift fine but I like long chainstays. Mine range from 42.5 to 45.5 which make for less acute side angles on the chains.

[gdw]

"If braze on, find some sram wedges that rotate the fder cage tail down so it aligns with the chainrings."

Wow, this has to be a first.... Old Potato actually recommended a Sram product.
Does this portend the end of times?

[oldpotatoe]

"If braze on, find some sram wedges that rotate the fder cage tail down so it aligns with the chainrings."

Wow, this has to be a first.... Old Potato actually recommended a Sram product.
Does this portend the end of times?

With as crappy as spam front ders are, they need all the help they can get and a great idea in spite of it being something scram came up with.