Nutrition during ride

[NickR]

I have an all day ride tomorrow that's mostly climbing (88 miles, 10k climbing), Angeles crest to hwy 39 for folks that know the area. I've been training, Mt Wilson, Mt Baldy (village), GRM, LA to SB. I'm a big guy, ok I'm fat (slow climber also) and burn 5k -7k calories on the rides.I try to eat something every 20 -30 minutes, cliff bars mostly. usually after the 5th cliff bar, I have a hard time eating anymore. i do mix it up with shot blocks, a banana, glu shots. What's the best bang for the body to infuse calories/energy?

I've switched to hammered perpetuem for long rides and cramping on the rides is rare unless its really hot. Which tomorrow should be. I reread the label and according to it i should be putting 10 scopes in my bottle, does that sound right? I've been putting 2 scopes at each refill.

[slidey]

Well, don't change anything for tomorrow. You don't know how your system would react to a change on a ride that you obviously deem is important enough to think about an entire day in advance, i.e. isn't simply riding along.




For Day after-tomorrow: 5 clif bars on a ride sounds very x 5 bad in every possible way, to me. I'm one of those water or at most (water+electrolyte tabs) guys when it comes to hydration, and for on-bike food I go for Pemmican bars/Belvita biscuits. I operate on a simple policy: If I won't have the stuff off-the-bike, I'm not stuffing myself with the stuff on-the-bike either.

[shovelhd]

I'm with slidey. Don't change for tomorrow but that is way too much intake. Your system is overloaded processing food and can't focus on exercise. I'm a highly trained racer, but doing long rides I have a solid, protein rich breakfast and then don't eat anything until hour two. At that point I will have a 100 calorie gel every hour. Heavy protein afterwards.

[guido]

Most tourist cyclists do ok on 250 - 350
Cal per hour doing rides like this. You are on the high end of this recommendation.

[kgreene10]

The good people at Clif thank you for keeping them in the black. On the other hand, that's a whole lotta Clif on one ride. Each one is circa 240 cals and 10g of protein. I'm a smaller guy but when I burn 3500-4k cals on a ride, it's with one and maybe two Clifs and, if there's intensity, perhaps a Gu or a few gummies.

Do you have a sense of whether your body needs the carbs in the Clifs or the protein? My under educated guess is that it's the carbs and you may be getting bogged down trying to digest the protein.

I'm sure someone with a broader perspective than mine will chime in, but I would be tempted to experiment by keeping the carb intake as high as it is and diminishing (not removing) the amount of protein.

Also, for a change of pace, you could try Alan Lim'a rice bars. I know lots of guys who love them. They do take a bit of time to prepare but might be easier on the system than a bar.

[Tandem Rider]

10 scoops??? You'd almost have to chew that!! Is that a gel recipe?

It sounds like way too much food to me.

88 miles is what? 5 hours?? It sounds like you are ingesting 600-700ish calories per hour unless I'm misunderstanding you. Look up what a typical digestive system can handle. It's way less than that. All the excess is getting stored in your stomach, slowing you down and making you feel bad.

I would eat what you are used to for tomorrow, just a little less of it. Don't forget good ol' H2O. It's what makes the rest of the calories work.

[Ralph]

I don't know how fit you are, or how strong. Some folks can ride 88 hard miles like it's nothing. Some lack conditioning and reserves, so have to constantly fuel after about 30 minutes or so. Also don't know how hot the ride will be, or how much you will perspire. However....after your reserves are used up....you ride on mostly sugar...from some kind of food or drink in some form. Also...don't overlook the need for salt. Dr Mirkin, a sports Doc and nutrionist, talks about the importance of not letting your sodium deplete. Like some have said above, I wouldn't try much new on that ride. On a ride like that, especially if very hot, I mostly ride on weak diluted GatorAid and Fig bars (fig bars contain sodium). Salty chips for some salt, and maybe a Snickers bar if i get tired of fig bars. Sugar water goes into your system much faster than a sugar food, so keep the fluid intake up. Also will drink some regular water, maybe. Or maybe just diluted about half strength GatorAid. But none of that bothers my stomach in amounts I would eat. If eating 250 calorie cliff bars, would probably only eat 1/2 at a time. Riding long rides here in Florida heat and humidity, I deal with this a lot. How I eat and drink has a big effect on how I feel after a ride. (BTW....eating some salty chips, or anything salty, after 4-5 hours in 90 degree heat, really helps) If it's really hot, sports drinks don't contain enough salt to replace what you lose in sweat. if they did they would taste like sea water, and you wouldn't buy/drink them. And another BTW....my research on sports drinks is there isn't much difference in them, or enough to matter. So I just go cheap....powered Gatoraid about half strength. Anyway....drink the one you like.

http://drmirkin.com/public/ezine050210.html

[NickR]

Well, don't change anything for tomorrow. You don't know how your system would react to a change on a ride that you obviously deem is important enough to think about an entire day in advance, i.e. isn't simply riding along.




For Day after-tomorrow: 5 clif bars on a ride sounds very x 5 bad in every possible way, to me. I'm one of those water or at most (water+electrolyte tabs) guys when it comes to hydration, and for on-bike food I go for Pemmican bars/Belvita biscuits. I operate on a simple policy: If I won't have the stuff off-the-bike, I'm not stuffing myself with the stuff on-the-bike either.

I'm with slidey. Don't change for tomorrow but that is way too much intake. Your system is overloaded processing food and can't focus on exercise. I'm a highly trained racer, but doing long rides I have a solid, protein rich breakfast and then don't eat anything until hour two. At that point I will have a 100 calorie gel every hour. Heavy protein afterwards.

Most tourist cyclists do ok on 250 - 350
Cal per hour doing rides like this. You are on the high end of this recommendation.

Wow looks like I've been doing it all wrong and appreciate the input.

[FlashUNC]

If I had 5 Clif Bars on a ride, I think bubble guts would take over in the worst way.

As others have mentioned, stick to what you know for tomorrow, but man, I'd take a long look at my fueling on the bike and make some adjustments.

I personally steer away from the prepared stuff and go for more real food (because of the bubble guts, don't want to pull a LeMond out there). I do some of the Allen Lim Pocket Nutrition stuff, so very small dinner roll sandwiches (my current person favorite is turkey with some swiss and a dab of honey on a savory dinner roll). But as Shovel mentioned, that's usually not before hour 2 or 3 given its a bigger calorie intake than your usual gel or something else.

[NickR]

Do you have a sense of whether your body needs the carbs in the Clifs or the protein? My under educated guess is that it's the carbs and you may be getting bogged down trying to digest the protein. I tend to feel a drain in energy and a glu tends to pick me up. So based on the comments posted I'm over eating.

10 scoops??? You'd almost have to chew that!! Is that a gel recipe?
Hammer's instruction are: Multiply #of scoops for bodyweight (2 scoops for me) by the number of training. Mix in a large water bottle and sip every 15-20 minutes. Consume 16-28 ounces of plain water from a separate source. So that means 2 scoops x 5 hours minimum ride time for this ride but more like 8 for me. What I've been doing is 2 scoops in the bottle and the other water bottle water only.


I don't know how fit you are, or how strong. Some folks can ride 88 hard miles like it's nothing. Some lack conditioning and reserves, so have to constantly fuel after about 30 minutes or so. Also don't know how hot the ride will be, or how much you will perspire.

Unfortunately I'm neither compered to your typical cyclist. I have a friend who takes 4:20 breaks and a liquor run on centuries with out skipping a beat. I tend to perspire a lot, weather will be in the 90's in the upper elevation 70"s. I tend to drink a lot of water, earlier this week I road up to Hwy 39 in high 80's by the time i got to the base of the mountain (mile 20) i had gone through 3 water bottles and half a bottle of Hammer Perpetuam.


However....after your reserves are used up....you ride on mostly sugar...from some kind of food or drink in some form. Also...don't overlook the need for salt. Dr Mirkin, a sports Doc and nutrionist, talks about the importance of not letting your sodium deplete. Like some have said above, I wouldn't try much new on that ride. On a ride like that, especially if very hot, I mostly ride on weak diluted GatorAid and Fig bars (fig bars contain sodium). Salty chips for some salt, and maybe a Snickers bar if i get tired of fig bars. Sugar water goes into your system much faster than a sugar food, so keep the fluid intake up. I was having that problem better switching to Hammer Perpetuam, so far so good cross my fingers.

[NickR]

If I had 5 Clif Bars on a ride, I think bubble guts would take over in the worst way.

As others have mentioned, stick to what you know for tomorrow, but man, I'd take a long look at my fueling on the bike and make some adjustments.

I personally steer away from the prepared stuff and go for more real food (because of the bubble guts, don't want to pull a LeMond out there). I do some of the Allen Lim Pocket Nutrition stuff, so very small dinner roll sandwiches (my current person favorite is turkey with some swiss and a dab of honey on a savory dinner roll). But as Shovel mentioned, that's usually not before hour 2 or 3 given its a bigger calorie intake than your usual gel or something else.

Made me laugh with the bubble gut comment, not a problem for me. Not to get into TMI territory, but I have some of the best bowel movements after them rides.

[stephenmarklay]

I'm with slidey. Don't change for tomorrow but that is way too much intake. Your system is overloaded processing food and can't focus on exercise. I'm a highly trained racer, but doing long rides I have a solid, protein rich breakfast and then don't eat anything until hour two. At that point I will have a 100 calorie gel every hour. Heavy protein afterwards.

For sure too much food. A lot of what you need on a ride is dependent on how you eat in general and what you eat before the ride.

Like shovelhd said I would not change too much for the ride.

In general however I can ride sub maximally on water for 4 hours or so. The harder the effort the more carbohydrates I would consume. I also mostly ride in the morning without eating.

Yes that sounds crazy but your body gets good at what you do. However, if your ride hard then you will beed some carbs but not nearly your intake.

[shovelhd]

Made me laugh with the bubble gut comment, not a problem for me. Not to get into TMI territory, but I have some of the best bowel movements after them rides.

That's protein going to waste, literally. Your system can only process so much so fast. You really need protein right after the ride is over, preferably within the first 30 minutes. After my racing is done for the day, I drink a protein shake, which consists of 1.5 scoops of whey powder in 12 ounces of 2% milk. That's about 60g of protein. I have to drink it slowly, over 30 minutes or so, or else I get nauseous. It really helps minimize the muscle soreness.

On the bike I drink between 12-24 ounces per hour, depending on the weather and intensity. What works for me in races is Gatorade G2 powder, 3/4 of a scoop per tall bottle. On rides, water only, and if I don't have a feeder in races then I carry a third crush bottle of plain water which I drink first. Perpetuum would make me puke before it's even finished.

[Green10speed]

I'm actually doing a few longer rides this season (between 50-100 miles) I've done 60 miles and quite a few 50 mile rides but hunger and energy becomes an issue. My problem is I have an extremely sensitive stomach when it comes to power bars, cliff bars, and gels. I get the BG's (bubble guts) does anyone have similar problems and can recommend more natural and less rich ideas? I'm actually a little nervous about hitting my goal of 100 miles due to this. Ibs is a pain in the ass.

[shovelhd]

Honey Stinger waffles, those rice things. I wonder if part of your issue, other than IBS, is waiting too long to eat anything, and then eating too much.

[Green10speed]

Honey Stinger waffles, those rice things. I wonder if part of your issue, other than IBS, is waiting too long to eat anything, and then eating too much.

I tend to eat a lot the night before, and then a normal portion before the ride. But to be honest I probably wait too long on the ride to refuel. When I do feel my energy draining I really pace my self with the cliff bars, I usually eat them in thirds as maybe every 30 mins. But I'm really carefule about eating too much out on the road at once.

[Ralph]

The reason many of us eat fig bars (I prefer Fig Newtons) is because the nutrition make up is very similar to a Power Bar or Clif bar, plus they have sodium. Not sure about how much sodium in most energy bars. And my wife buys then 2 for 1 boxes at grocery store, 2 bars to a package, so I can eat one of the bars at a time, that make fig bars cheap. They don't bother my stomach. And I eat and drink a little all the time on a hard ride.

Not everyone likes them.

BTW.....studies have show that for a time trial team, where they have plenty of endurance and reserves to go flat out for a hour or so on just water, they go faster on a sugar water of some type drinking from the start. That's main reason I drink Gatorade and not water on ride. But I carry two large bottles on bike, drink a weak mix in one, stronger mix maybe in second bottle. Depends.

[shovelhd]

I tend to eat a lot the night before, and then a normal portion before the ride. But to be honest I probably wait too long on the ride to refuel. When I do feel my energy draining I really pace my self with the cliff bars, I usually eat them in thirds as maybe every 30 mins. But I'm really carefule about eating too much out on the road at once.

I think that's your problem. I eat by the clock, not wait until I am hungry. By the end of the ride or race I am deep in the calorie deficit hole but I had the energy to finish and I won't be hungry for quite a while.

[guido]

Coach John Hughes has some great info on long distance riding, nutrition, training etc. Very different than what you do for racing. Check out his website.

[malbecman]

I agree with ShovelHD, I eat by the clock.....every 15-20 min, take a little nibble (50-100 cals, depending on intensity, your BW,etc) and a sip or two of water. Its much easier to digest this way (instead of onebig bolus) and keeps your blood sugar at more even levels.

But yes, don't make any huge changes for tomorrow, its a little too late to experiment. Just trying eating a little less overall and spread them out into smaller portions over time. Best of luck!

[cinema]

that's a super fun ride let us know how it went. I'll echo what everyone else has said, it sounds like a lot of food. I thought it was more like 7.5k but i don't have a garmin.

Everyone is different but this is what I do: A couple bottles of (insert sugary salty drink here) and (insert a whole bag of your favorite gummy candy here). I'll fill up with regular water eventually, sometimes I'll try to leave each bottle with half of whatever sugar drink I put in there and the second round will be diluted.

By the time we stop for lunch I have a sandwich I brought, nuts and chips maybe another banana or apple. If we do mt wilson and the cafe is open i'll have a coffee too. Usually when I get home is when I cram food after a ride like that.

[Ralph]

that's a super fun ride let us know how it went. I'll echo what everyone else has said, it sounds like a lot of food. I thought it was more like 7.5k but i don't have a garmin.

Everyone is different but this is what I do: A couple bottles of (insert sugary salty drink here) and (insert a whole bag of your favorite gummy candy here). I'll fill up with regular water eventually, sometimes I'll try to leave each bottle with half of whatever sugar drink I put in there and the second round will be diluted.

By the time we stop for lunch I have a sandwich I brought, nuts and chips maybe another banana or apple. If we do mt wilson and the cafe is open i'll have a coffee too. Usually when I get home is when I cram food after a ride like that.

Sounds good to me.

[NickR]

that's a super fun ride let us know how it went. I'll echo what everyone else has said, it sounds like a lot of food. I thought it was more like 7.5k but i don't have a garmin.

Everyone is different but this is what I do: A couple bottles of (insert sugary salty drink here) and (insert a whole bag of your favorite gummy candy here). I'll fill up with regular water eventually, sometimes I'll try to leave each bottle with half of whatever sugar drink I put in there and the second round will be diluted.

By the time we stop for lunch I have a sandwich I brought, nuts and chips maybe another banana or apple. If we do mt wilson and the cafe is open i'll have a coffee too. Usually when I get home is when I cram food after a ride like that.

Appreciate the feedback guys. I took your advice and scaled back my intake. I ate steak (carne asada) & eggs for breakfast. One clif bar, a pack of shot blocks, one Power gel and some fruit (banana & oranges) the whole ride. For hydration was lots of water and a bottle & 1/2 of Hammer perpetuim with a total of 6 scopes.

There where over 20 riders that started from Encanto Park in Duarte. Me & two other guys meet the group at foothills of the mountain. Since it was more convenient for us to ride there than drive to Duarte. Due to time constraints (wife working that day) I and another guy were going to ride till 1pm and then turn around and ride home. The rest of the group would continue to Hwy 39, descend to Crystal Lake and end up in Encanto Park. By the time we gathered at La Canada is was later than what I wanted to start climbing. The sun was up and temperature rising quick. I made it to Red Box before it got really hot in the lower elevation. Also received some PR in Strava from Clear Creek to Red Box. This section always giving me problems and the need to stop for a break. Yesterday I was able to complete the section nonstop. Went as far as Charlton Flats elevation 5,300, total elevation depending on who you believe Garmin 6,800 and Strava 8,000. For bragging rights I’m going with Strava :cool:

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8712/16971361315_466d54a80b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/rRGErR)VIRB0150 (https://flic.kr/p/rRGErR) by ntrodriguez (https://www.flickr.com/people/18148125@N07/), on Flickr

[jimoots]

Just chiming in after the fact.

I'm someone that does the 'gel thing' because I find them super convenient and I like to ride light. Two or three gels are easier logistically than the equivalent cals/sugars in fruit.

When doing the 'standard' 4-5 hour weekend ride in mild weather I'll skip breakfast, have a coffee and maybe a couple of gels during the ride. I'll typically carry a 750ml bidon and fill it up maybe once. If it's hot (30+ celcius / 85+ farenheit) then it might end up getting filled up 3 or 4 times.

If its a stronger pace or more challenging ride then I will take extra gels and perhaps some dates. I'll carry a second bidon, mixed up a really strong Gatorade or similar and sip at it, refilling it along the way to dilute the mix.

On rides sub-8 hour I have no concern for protein or fat and focus on consuming sugars during the ride. This seems to work well.

I find that personally my limit for gel intake in a day is around eight to ten gels. It gets you feeling pretty seedy in the belly - not like you need to go to the toilet or throw up - it just doesn't feel good.

It's not enjoyable being at the end of a 12-15 hour ride, completely faded and not wanting to eat cause you feel sick!

[Anarchist]

I use Peanut Butter and Jam sandwiches or maybe Turkey and Cheese.

Wax paper and tinfoil.

[cinema]

Nice did you check out charlton flats? beautiful area

[NickR]

I use Peanut Butter and Jam sandwiches or maybe Turkey and Cheese.

Wax paper and tinfoil. oh forgot to mention that i also had pb&j on the ride.

[NickR]

Nice did you check out charlton flats? beautiful area
Didn't get a chance had to get back home. But I've been there on several snow trips when i was a kid.

[FlashUNC]

So how did the scaled back intake feel? Better? Worse?

[ptourkin]

Just a note on the Perpetuem - what you're drinking out of your calorie bottle should not be counted as a full bottle of hydration. You need to stay up on hydration if you're drinking calories. I prefer Carbopro to Perpetuem - which makes everyone I know gassy. Just add Skratch to taste.

For on the bike nutrition for rides less than 72 hours, don't worry about protein or fat. Deal with that before and after. For the 508, it's all we counted. Regardless of what the paleo types will say, it's doubtful you can convert fat eaten during the ride.

[NickR]

So how did the scaled back intake feel? Better? Worse? i would say the same, didn't feel any performance difference.

[Jgrooms]

I like the Perp. But cut the qty a lot. Blend in a banana & honey w mango juice/water. Bam 'real' food w my unreal food.

Like others sugg, palatable solid later. But not too much. 5 cliffs! Oh my that is a lot of oats.

[kurto]

Nice ride, Nick. Even though it's after the fact, I'll chime in with my perspective. Since you now have a baseline for what works, you can try tweaking it. I find that I run better on higher fat, so if I'm going for a long ride I'll have a peanut or almond butter sandwich or two. For shorter rides where I still want to eat, I've found that Lara bars agree with me the best, and they're higher in fat. Definitely don't assume you can only have carbs on the ride; it looks like you had a higher fat breakfast and performed pretty well.

[DrSpoke]

Coconut macaroons!

http://www.bicycling.com/training-nutrition/nutrition-weight-loss/power-puff

[bcroslin]

I've found the Cliff Bar "Z bars" are pretty awesome on long rides. Each one is 100 calories and they actually taste pretty good. I have issues swallowing anything dry or crunchy while riding and the Z bars are pretty moist by Cliff bar standards. I've also found the GU Brew with extra sodium to be good on hot days.