Italy - Buying a bike or frame while on vacation?

[InspectorGadget]

My wife and I are going to Italy for 2 weeks with 4 other couples this summer. Bless her heart, Mrs. Gadget is somewhat insistent that I spend a day visiting Maranello and the Ferrari factory; however, I already know bike shopping is not anywhere near the top of our (her) itinerary. Nonetheless, I would appreciate any thoughts you might have about coming home with a complete bike or even a frame and fork. My preference would be a class steel bike, but my eyes are wide open.

We'll be staying here (http://www.tuscanynow.com/villa-zacconi-x-11-people-id-4742) in northern Tuscany and here (http://www.tuscanynow.com/villa-astori-x-20-people-id-4690) in southern Tuscany. It's not going to suck.

[tumbler]

Bless her heart, Mrs. Gadget is somewhat insistent that I spend a day visiting Maranello and the Ferrari factory

I say seize the opportunity and refocus your efforts on bringing home a Ferrari. The F12 is not a bad car at all. :banana:

[mvrider]

Though we haven't bought frames yet, I can tell you that one of the special treats during our last trip to Italy was a visit to Dario's workshop (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=115753) (now moved). We got measured, and got to poke our noses around the wonderful workshop. There are many other custom builders in Northern Italy (Zullo tops my list)... perhaps you can work some into your schedule?

The exchange rate with the Euro is the best it's been for awhile, but I think you need to think about duties.

[jr59]

My vote goes for the F12

[rccardr]

We're going in early October and intend to visit the Pelizzoli shop (http://www.pelizzoliworld.com/). Vintage fans will recognize Pelizzoli as the original owner of Ciocc, later master frame maker to several racing teams including Coppi. Also owner of Gion, which made frames and bikes after Ciocc was sold & apparently in between working with the Coppi teams. He's located in Bergamo. I own a Gion frameset and can testify to the quality, but only maybe 140 were made, so not a well known brand.

Another stop will be Cicli Corsa Classico (http://ciclicorsaclassico.com/), also in Bergamo. Great people who have done a superb job sourcing and shipping bikes for me in the past; it will be great to meet them in person.

High likelihood that I'll be either having a custom frame done for me, or will find something that will be shipped back to the US.

[ceolwulf]

Been in love with Sarto ever since Pez's article -

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/tech-n-spec/sarto-bicycles-custom-energia-disc/#.VRWMUYoxGnM

[velotel]

Buy the bike, ride it hard and fast, take it home with you of course because it's your bike, you've been riding it for years, nothing to pay but the transport, nothing to declare, easy.

[2StrokeRacer]

I bought a frame several years while in Italy. No problems at all getting it home.

[soulspinner]

Dude, u r lucky:hello:

[texbike]

There are a ton of great builder options in Italy.

However, I'd go straight to the Velodromo Vigorelli and have Alberto Masi build me a new version of the classic Gran Criterium in silver, silverish-blue, or champagne. Yum.

Texbike

[Hawker]

Zullo would be high on my list.

[Russian bear]

Formigli. Custom steel and carbon.

[InspectorGadget]

Been in love with Sarto ever since Pez's article - http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/tech-n-spec/sarto-bicycles-custom-energia-disc/#.VRWMUYoxGnM
I've been watching this Sarto on ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/171747408579?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT). From the seller:
The frame was built in Italy in 2012. It has never been ridden. It was built with vintage parts as it was displayed at NAHBS and Interbike.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAwMFgxNTAw/z/--gAAOSwk5FUvsZQ/$_57.JPG

[gianni]

Easy answer, go see the casati factory in Monza (Milano). IMHO the casati laser is the best steel bike ever....finito.

[Mr. Pink]

My wife and I are going to Italy for 2 weeks with 4 other couples this summer. Bless her heart, Mrs. Gadget is somewhat insistent that I spend a day visiting Maranello and the Ferrari factory; however, I already know bike shopping is not anywhere near the top of our (her) itinerary. Nonetheless, I would appreciate any thoughts you might have about coming home with a complete bike or even a frame and fork. My preference would be a class steel bike, but my eyes are wide open.

We'll be staying here (http://www.tuscanynow.com/villa-zacconi-x-11-people-id-4742) in northern Tuscany and here (http://www.tuscanynow.com/villa-astori-x-20-people-id-4690) in southern Tuscany. It's not going to suck.

How much are those rooms costing you?

[Aaron O]

If you can get to Milan, or ship from Milan and pick up, I'd get a Marnati frame.

Daniele Marnati is a second generation builder...him and his father both built bikes for several teams badged as other things. Working with him can be different - you need a go between unless you're fluent, and he doesn't have a website.

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad205/aolk67/Marnati/C8434DF7-CE1E-4CEF-844D-F32F33D07109_zpsfa4vkccm.jpg (http://s936.photobucket.com/user/aolk67/media/Marnati/C8434DF7-CE1E-4CEF-844D-F32F33D07109_zpsfa4vkccm.jpg.html)

[Nags&Ducs]

Gios Torino in Turin. Only place you can now get a "made in Italy" Gios. Color options are Gios Blue and Gios Blue. Or Gios Blue.

I'm so envious.

[oldpotatoe]

See if Alberto is home..here

[tiretrax]

A friend used to live in Florence. He told me prices for bikes and kit that were much lower than the US price.

You can get the VAT refunded, so that will make things less expensive. I recommend very stongly that you declare the bike and paying duty. If you're caught not doing so, you will have a hard time in customs every time you leave and re-enter the US in the future. It may involve a long interrogation. I know from a relative's experience after not declaring everything he brought home. One rectal exam by a GS 7 will make you wonder why you tried to save $50.

If you don't have time to visit a framebuilder's workshop, I'll see if my friend can suggest a good bike shop. There is probably one in Lucca or Pisa, which is the locale of your first rental. He still spends time in the summer on the coast nearby.

[oldpotatoe]

A friend used to live in Florence. He told me prices for bikes and kit that were much lower than the US price. You can get the VAT refunded, so that will make things less expensive. I'd suggest declaring the bike and paying duty. If you're caught, you will have a hard time in customs every time you leave and re-enter the US in the future. It may involve a long interrogation. I know from a relative's experience after not declaring everything he brought home.

If you don't have time to visit a framebuilder's workshop, I'll see if my friend can suggest a good bike shop. There is probably one in Lucca or Pisa, which is the locale of your first rental. He still spends time in the summer on the coast nearby.

Or dress nice, have your bride with you..and be armed with AMEX travelers checks or better yet, long green and the deal you will get. Helps to speak Italian also or have a translator..female preferred..

[InspectorGadget]

How much are those rooms costing you?Mr. Pink,

I'll let you know as soon as I receive the final invoice.

[Mr. Pink]

Well, I'm thinking of a trip to Tuscany this year if my knee heals from surgery, and I am making it a point to price things in Euros instead of dollars for the trip. Anybody over there who is pricing their stuff in dollars is making a nice profit from the trend in FX as the dollar strengthens. (Hello, Trek Travel , I'm looking at you.) I'm also going to sneak some cash in. I just read another intelligent opinion this morning that the dollar will break through parity before the end of the year, which would make life over there almost one third cheaper than just a year ago.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-12/the-9-trillion-short-that-s-seen-sending-the-dollar-even-higher

[RonW87]

Check out Tommasini in Grosseto.

[yngpunk]

You can get the VAT refunded, so that will make things less expensive. I recommend very stongly that you declare the bike and paying duty. If you're caught not doing so, you will have a hard time in customs every time you leave and re-enter the US in the future. It may involve a long interrogation. I know from a relative's experience after not declaring everything he brought home. One rectal exam by a GS 7 will make you wonder why you tried to save $50.


Probably depends on your port of entry into the US and the Customs agent working at the time, but I've declared items with the intent to pay the duty and have been waived through with "just go ahead, I don't want to deal with the paperwork", in part I think because I was being honest with what I was bringing back and the intent to pay the duty.

[Plum Hill]

Check out the VAT refund procedure. When I returned through the Munich airport, I couldn't get the refund there. The less-than-courteous agent said I had to show him the items with the tags intact (to prove they weren't used). Said items were in my checked baggage that was headed to the plane. I asked how I could get a refund on items that couldn't be carried on, such as skis. Needless to say, he wasn't happy with the question.
I did not file when I got home, as I've heard that almost never works.

Bike purchase or not, enjoy your trip.

[kgreene10]

What's the dividing line between must and don't have to declare? If I buy a bike in Europe and use it abroad, does it have to be declared when returning to the US? Does it matter how long it's used in Europe or how long I've remained abroad? Or is your income tax home determinative?

[yngpunk]

What's the dividing line between must and don't have to declare? If I buy a bike in Europe and use it abroad, does it have to be declared when returning to the US? Does it matter how long it's used in Europe or how long I've remained abroad? Or is your income tax home determinative?

From the Customs and Border Protection (CBP) website:

How to use the new CBP Form 6059B
•Under the new definition of domestic relationship, one combined family declaration can now be presented to the CBP officer upon arrival.
•As with any joint declaration, verbal or written, the person making and/or signing the declaration will be held accountable for its validity.
•For returning U.S. residents: To be considered members of a family and to group exemptions from customs duty and internal revenue tax, the travelers must have lived together in one household at their last permanent residence and intend to live together in one household in the U.S. Regulations allow U.S. residents to combine the personal duty exemptions of each family member. For example, a family of five members returning directly from France would be entitled to a combined personal duty exemption of $4,000 ($800 x 5 individuals = $4,000).

My interpretation is that goods totaling over $800 must be declared if travelling alone, but that $800/person can be combined for each member of your family, so essentially one person in the "family" could bring back a single item in excess of $800 as long as the total for the family doesn't exceed the combined limit of $800/person.

Regarding the used bike/frame, my interpretation is that you would declare the current value of the used bike/frame, and not what you paid for it when purchased. Technically, you could argue that the longer it was used and the older it is, the less value it has...

[rrudoff]

Regarding VAT refunds, you can check in at the counter, and tell the airline agent you have to go to Customs for approval. You then take bag/box to the custom agent, have them inspect and sign, and then return to the counter to check the bag. This is done all the time when people buy a bunch of clothes etc. and there is no reason for it to be different for a frame. At least in Italy, they used to be pretty loose about checking if you have the items, but my last few times, they checked pretty closely, so you need to have the stuff for them to inspect. Make sure you leave plenty of time for this of course, which can be challenging if you have a 630 AM flight and the customs opens at 6.

Also in Italy, if you are willing to deal a bit and pay in cash, you can sometimes get a pretty good discount if you don't get a fattura, which is an official invoice. This is a grey area, so act at your own risk, and don't ask for VAT refund paperwork if you go this route, they are mutually exclusive.

[54ny77]

weird stuff going on over there in italy. :eek:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/292306.php