Carbon e-bike with King wheels?!

[brockd15]

Not sure how much overlap there is in the markets of high zoot carbon bikes and e-bikes, but the more options the better, I guess.

http://techcrunch.com/2015/03/24/karmic-koben/

[mktng]

i want the e-bike ryder hesjedal had

[oldpotatoe]

Not sure how much overlap there is in the markets of high zoot carbon bikes and e-bikes, but the more options the better, I guess.

http://techcrunch.com/2015/03/24/karmic-koben/

15-20 mile range otherwise it's a 36 pound bike.

[personicus]

Ugh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[makoti]

In the comments:

"Sorry this was a misquote from the reporter! The Chris King wheels are just for this build, they aren't included at the $2k retail price. The wheels cost nearly half of that! The stock wheels will be quality sealed-bearing hubs, but obviously not King hubs. :)"

well, then, forget it. I'd ride a 36lb bike if it had CK wheels....

[Pelican]

Hey Guys,

If it wasn't obviously clear from the pictures, that is not a carbon frame. Also the King wheels aren't a stock item, it was another misquote by the reporter.

Didn't think I'd see my company posted in Paceline, but happy to answer any questions (and doubts) from you guys here.

Cheers,
Hong
Mechanic, Karmic Bikes

[Pelican]

i want the e-bike ryder hesjedal had

Working on it! ;)

[Pelican]

15-20 mile range otherwise it's a 36 pound bike.

That's exactly what we are targeting with our smaller battery pack.

[Pelican]

Ugh.


Typo?

[brockd15]

Cool that it's a Paceliner!

I'm just down the road in Sunnyvale and bike commute 15 miles a day to Palo Alto. Let me know if you need testers! ;)

[bluesea]

Is this pedal assist, and what about the option for larger Ah battery packs?

[brockd15]

^^^
Yep, pedal assist, per the article.

[Pelican]

Is this pedal assist, and what about the option for larger Ah battery packs?

Yes, it's a pedelec and we already have a larger pack that gets 30-40 miles. The problem has been finding an elegant way to mount it to the frame. Most ebikes have ugly battery packs hanging out on a rack. We will never do that.

[Pelican]

Cool that it's a Paceliner!

I think so too!

I'm just down the road in Sunnyvale and bike commute 15 miles a day to Palo Alto. Let me know if you need testers! ;)

Do you work downtown? I was just there this morning, and will have a couple more meetings/demos next week. Just email me: hong@karmicbikes.com

[oldpotatoe]

That's exactly what we are targeting with our smaller battery pack.

I get that but seems most commutes, etc are farther which means pedaling a 36 pound bike.

[Pelican]

I get that but seems most commutes, etc are farther

Maybe in this crowd, but most trips American's drive are less than 3 miles.

[ORMojo]

I get that but seems most commutes, etc are farther which means pedaling a 36 pound bike.

Maybe in this crowd, but most trips American's drive are less than 3 miles.

But you are confusing "most trips American's drive" with "commutes" - they are not the same thing. The first, simply referred to as trips, does generally have an average trip length of around 3 miles. Here in our medium-size metropolitan area (~0.25 million), the average trip length (across all modes) is 3.45 miles, and about 17% of all trips (again, all modes) are under 1 mile.

But commute trips are a different thing all together. Now, admittedly, it is the article linked in the OP that makes the statement that the Karmic ebike is for commuters, and I don't see that assertion on the Karmic web site itself. That said, it is important to know your market.

Here is the latest national data on average commute trip lengths by mode of travel.
http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv48/ORMojo1/CommuteDistance_zps03hu4r8c.jpg (http://s668.photobucket.com/user/ORMojo1/media/CommuteDistance_zps03hu4r8c.jpg.html)

All of the commute trip lengths for the market you would presumably target for an ebike (those that aren't already biking just an average of 3.6 commute miles, or those that are walking) have commute trip lengths greater than 13 miles each way.

[Pelican]

You're assuming we're only going after commuters.

[bluesea]

Yes, it's a pedelec and we already have a larger pack that gets 30-40 miles. The problem has been finding an elegant way to mount it to the frame. Most ebikes have ugly battery packs hanging out on a rack. We will never do that.


I'll be watching your progress. I met a cyclist who gets a workout session commuting on a pedelec averaging 30+ mph.

[ORMojo]

You're assuming we're only going after commuters.

No, I specifically did not make that assumption. I specifically went beyond the media article's labeling of the bike as for "commuters" and read all of the material on your web site, resulting in my statement that I "don't see that assertion [about commuters] on the Karmic web site."

My point was not about the bike's suitability for commuting, it was about your response to potatoe's post stating "seems most commutes, etc. are farther [than 15-20 mile range]." Your response that "most trips American's drive are less than 3 miles" missed potatoe's point - you were comparing apples to oranges . . . or ebikes to tricycles.

Aside from the fact that "most trips American's drive are less than 3 miles" is not true (and I can supply the statistics*), potatoe was (I think) choosing to focus on the commute trip applicability of your ebike (without claiming that was your agenda), and your response missed that point.

And potatoe's point was on-point: The article did label this as "An Electric Bike Built For Commuters" and if that is not the case, then you need to quickly work on your messaging - for better or worse, media messages can spread much quicker and farther, and take hold much stronger, than a start-up company's message.

*(Very) Short Version of the Data: The statistics are available via the CTPP, the NHTS, and other sources, and can be broken own by over 650,000 geographies, etc., etc., etc. The most recent comprehensive study, the 2009 NHTS (National Household Travel Survey), indicates the following:
http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv48/ORMojo1/TripLengthAll_zpsy9q13azv.jpg (http://s668.photobucket.com/user/ORMojo1/media/TripLengthAll_zpsy9q13azv.jpg.html)

The NHTS series is considered more accurate than the CTPP or other census-derived travel data, since the NHTS relies on travel diaries, as opposed to post-fact self-recollections reported on census forms. As you can see, the claim that "most trips American's drive are less than 3 miles" is inaccurate. I could delve deeper into the data, such as pointing out that the average trip lengths shown in the table above are for all modes, and you specifically singled out "drive" trips - well, what happens to the data in the table above when you remove the other modes, the walking, biking, transit trips? The average trip length will adhere more closely to "drive" trips, and will increase, although not all that much, since the "vehicle" trip length was already the predominent data. See below, noting that below is the average vehicle trip length, which gets to your "trips American's drive" assertion.
http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv48/ORMojo1/TripLengthVehicle_zpshuglvhxn.jpg (http://s668.photobucket.com/user/ORMojo1/media/TripLengthVehicle_zpshuglvhxn.jpg.html)

P.S. - Now, you may ask how does this data jive with the statement from my earlier post that for me locally "the average trip length (across all modes) is 3.45 miles, and about 17% of all trips (again, all modes) are under 1 mile." Well, three things: first, that was about ALL trips, again much broader, and, aggregately, much shorter, than just motor vehicle trips; second, I'm talking about Eugene Oregon, which in many studies is cited in the top three nationally for both bicycle and walking mode share, which will bring our overall trip length down; and third, I'm talking about Oregon, where more than 40 years of growth management has resulted in high density, mixed-use, compact urban areas that again contribute to keeping our (vehicle) trip lengths on the low side.

OK, that was too lengthy of a reply. Just please understand that I did not make the assumption you suggested I had made!

[oldpotatoe]

I guess my point is with that mileage, AND assuming a 'commute' AND 2 way(gotta get home), AND no way to recharge, I think 15-20 mile range seems a little short. Yes you want to have a sexy, small battery but no such think as a free lunch. Just IMHO. For the $, I think it should have a longer range or weigh less or be less expensive or all 3.